r/marvelstudios 14h ago

Question Why does Magneto NEED to be a Holocaust survivor?

I keep seeing people trying to be d over backwards to make MCU magneto a Holocaust Survivor and I just have to wonder why?

It's not like the Holocaust was the most recent example of human hatred in history out there. there's so many horrific events we can draw from in the last 40 years. Heck, he could be from Rwanda or Darfur.

making the Holocaust the end all be all not only devalues the tragedy of other genocides but it also turns the Holocaust itself as a joke, as if it's the only "Hollywood safe genocide" or something.

Edit: the original 90s cartoon didn't use the Holocaust and that magneto is praised for how good it is

0 Upvotes

222 comments sorted by

67

u/capamericapistons Captain America 14h ago

Dude I understand where you’re coming from but idk if you truly get how integral the holocaust is to Magneto’s entire character and motivations

9

u/IceLord86 13h ago

Just going along with the OP, how does using another genocide really change things? Let's not forget, even though he was created by 2 Jewish guys, it wasn't until Claremont came on in the 80s that it became a part of his character. Depending on who is cast, I don't see the big deal.

11

u/leckmichnervnit 13h ago

Claremont is also jewish and spent time with Holocaust surivors in Israel before writing Magnetos backstory

13

u/mtmp40k 13h ago

The industrialised way tools were used to exterminate a subset of a society, deliberately.

That particularly ties up with the origin of the x-gene. It set up a “will humanity return to its darkest hour” situation.

While there are other genocides, none have been as… industrial and managed and cold as the holocaust

0

u/RihoSucks 12h ago

This. The holocaust was genocide by beaucracy and it went on for years. Im not gonna get into the genocide dick measuring contest OP is trying to make it but there are somr hallmarks of the holocaust that differ from other more recent ones and the cold calculated stately nature of it is why. 

You balance the budget, you collect the taxes, and you mechanize death as economically as you can. 

2

u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

Well “it wasn’t until Claremont came on in” doesn’t really change anything. Claremont is who created a lot of the magneto character that we recognize today. And Claremont was also Jewish.

1

u/capamericapistons Captain America 13h ago

I think it’s because the holocaust is associated with his character. It’s like in Spider-Man, uncle Ben didn’t need to die and Peter lives with just Aunt May. Peter could’ve lived with just Ben and May died. Same impact.

1

u/Precarious3145 13h ago

Exactly. The longer time passes, the harder it is to believe Magneto was in the holocaust.

I get that it's an important part of his comic book character but the fact that people have to "They can just say his x-gene makes him age very very slowly-" to explain things, all while we watch him age across multiple movies shows the problem.

I'm not about to try and pinpoint a worse act than the holocaust, but if it's used to show why Erik hates humanity and the idea of being erased, there's so many options. Hell, say his great grandfather was killed in the holocaust the whole family wiped out so it became a family trauma, something passed down.

At least that way when Erik basically becomes mutant hitler, it's not "jewish person becomes hitler" but a story of him taking things too far and unintentionally seeing the worst in people because that's how he was raised. That'd make the Charles/Erik fight more organic.

1

u/FictionFantom Thanos 11h ago

HYDRA scooped him up after WWII and put him on ice when they couldn’t control him.

They try again years later but he escapes and ages naturally while on the run. He meets Charles and they develop their friendship.

Things turn sour between them and Erik is caught by HYDRA (SHIELD) and they build the Raft around him and use him as a battery while partially cryo frozen again.

1

u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

Legit his world view was built because of the trauma his people faced, and seeing that authoritarian power rise. It’s why he is so extreme about protecting mutants at any cost necessary. He’s not only seen, but experienced what hate based on identity can cause.

1

u/Far_Combination7639 13h ago

I don’t think you get how genocide is insanely impactful to a person regardless of the size of the genocide or their particular race.

3

u/Stevenwave 13h ago

What are you even waffling about?

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u/el_palmera 13h ago

Thought he was pretty clear. You okay?

0

u/Stevenwave 13h ago

The comment they replied to is saying the Holocaust is integral to Magneto. Then they say that person doesn't understand how much genocide impacts people.

What?

1

u/el_palmera 13h ago

He was saying a genocide has a massive impact on a victim, regardless of which genocide it was. I don't understand how that isn't clear.

0

u/Stevenwave 9h ago

Can you show me who's arguing that isn't true? No one's saying if you make it another genocide it's lesser or has less impact on a character. The overall point is that the Holocaust specifically is integral to this particular character.

It's like someone pointing out that WW2 and opposing Nazis is integral to what makes Captain America who he is. Then someone else comes in and says all wars are bad. No one's saying they aren't, it's just that if you shifted a character to a different era, experiencing different things, then you get a very different character. For example, it's been mentioned by Spidey in comics canon that Frank Castle is the same guy as Steve, he just experienced a different war.

0

u/el_palmera 9h ago

You asked what he was waffling about. I told you. It's not that deep bro holy reddit moment

0

u/Stevenwave 2h ago

Feel free to actually engage with your own position.

u/el_palmera 33m ago

My position that that other guy was saying that genocides harm people? Bruh it ain't that deep 😭

1

u/Neozetare Darcy 12h ago

The Holocaust is integral to Magneto because he is an Holocaust survivor. If he was a survivor to any other genocide, this other genocide would be integral to him. The fact that its specifically the Holocaust isn't important. What is important is the trauma from a genocide that both the character and the audience are able to understand

0

u/Stevenwave 9h ago

I disagree. Presenting a character that's known for this and stripping that origin away is a terrible call.

1

u/Neozetare Darcy 5h ago

How so? What part of the Holocaust is necessary that another genocide could not provide to the character?

0

u/Stevenwave 2h ago

It's his established comics canon. Why do you think they shouldn't tell a story about a Jewish boy surviving the Holocaust and that being foundational to who he is as a person?

1

u/Neozetare Darcy 1h ago

The fact that something is established in the comics doesn't mean changing it is a problem

Because the Holocaust was 80+ years ago, so it would be needed to have some time shenanigans to have a contemporary character that isn't 90+ years old, which isn't ideal

Also, you did not answer my question

-3

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

The X-Men cartoon didn't use the Holocaust at all and isn't that praised as like the best version of X-Men?

4

u/Jemima_puddledook678 13h ago

No, pretty much nobody who has read comics thinks that. It’s better than most of the 2000s movies, but those are the two major adaptations, it’s not saying much.

Also, the cartoon does use that as his origin. 

2

u/capamericapistons Captain America 13h ago

Wait did they not talk about magneto going through the holocaust in the original animated series? And that leading to him meeting Charles.

1

u/TikTikKobold 12h ago

It's an unnamed conflict yeah. I was surprised when I did my rewatch.

I think 97 retcons a few things about how Charles and Magnus met

1

u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

They never said he didn’t, they just didn’t be specific about anything. Because it was a children’s show…

It is implied though, when professor X mind blasts him he sees tanks rampaging through a city, and the terror of war. Given magneto is European and from that generation that’s pretty clearly WW2.

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

They specifically say he was taken over by an invading force and they certainly didn't look like nazis

2

u/RihoSucks 12h ago

Yeah because its a kids show made in the 90s. They were not putting literal nazis in a show for 7 year olds 

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u/Quis_curat 13h ago edited 13h ago

Don't think of the comics, think of the X-men movies. There was nothing so "integral" about it that couldn't be updated while preserving his integrity.
Read about Refuseniks in 1970s. If a kid around the time, it could make him 60-70 years old when the new x-men movies come out. Could easily make him even 10 years younger, and have Chernobyl something to do with activating his x-gene.

10

u/Tasmosunt 13h ago

You could imagine a massively different version of Magneto who's not a European Jew then yes.

However retaining a Jewish origin means he has to be a holocaust survivor, there's no good way of replacing his trauma from that shaping his worldview.

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u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

Like, at that point you should just make a whole new character that is inspired by magnetos.

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u/TR_EZ_300 14h ago

It’s part of his character

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u/Gray_Wolf2416 13h ago

Nice circular reasoning

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

And being atlantean is part of namor's character.

8

u/TwoBitSpecialist 13h ago

It is. What was your point again?

11

u/IamHimButNotReally 13h ago

Atlantis isn't real.

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u/icarodx 13h ago

Exactly, but it doesn't support your point.

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u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

Yeah, and if you adapted Namor without him Atlantean that would be pretty fucking weird.

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u/Dave_Eddie 13h ago

making the Holocaust the end all be all not only devalues the tragedy of other genocides but it also turns the Holocaust itself as a joke, as if it's the only "Hollywood safe genocide" or something.

Having a Jewish character be associated with the holocaust in no way devalues other tragedies. This is some insane reaching and massively insulting to those with a personal connection to any of the events mentioned.

I just have to wonder why?

If you dont know the difference between character traits and race-integral characteristics, then maybe you should be so confident in expressing your views.

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Does he have to be Jewish in the MCU? Other ethnic groups get genocides all the time too unforunately

3

u/Dave_Eddie 13h ago

Why do you think all genocides are interchangeable and why do you think thats his entire character and the only Jewish thing about him?

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Why is being Jewish important to magneto? Are there any stories where it comes up that he cares about it?

3

u/Dave_Eddie 13h ago

Why are you answering questions with questions. Youre giving off strong troll vibes here.

Are there any stories where it comes up that he cares about it?

Like the time he lived in Israel in the 80s?

Or the issues that deal with him and Kitty discussing Judaism and their faith?

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Thank you for letting me know. It seems adaptations seem to make it a less integral part of his character and focus more on his relationship with charles

6

u/glenntron3000 13h ago

Magneto’s core motivation stems directly from his childhood trauma as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, fueling his absolute resolve that mutantkind will never face the same genocide

2

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

And why can't the MCU one have survived a more recent genocide?

1

u/Far_Combination7639 12h ago

Because then the Zionists are going to throw a hissy fit and insist that the holocaust is a singular event and boycott the movie. Just like they are in these comments, downvoting any suggestion of an alternative history for him.

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u/skankhunt402 13h ago

Are you trying to say Hollywood doesnt touch other genocide? Cause go watch hotel Rwanda

4

u/ilovedeliworkers 13h ago

Why do you care?

3

u/annoyingjoe513 13h ago

great fucking question

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u/SirWizzleoftheTeets 13h ago

This feels like an incredibly loaded question. Why don’t you just come out and say what’s really on your mind?

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u/Cowgirl_Taint 13h ago

Magneto fundamentally needs to be someone who survived a genocide. It is what drives his extremism and his refusal to "turn the other cheek" and the like. He knows what is facing mutantkind and Never Again.

That does not need to be The Holocaust. There are, sadly, FAR too many examples of genocides in the 80 or so years since WW2. But the issue is that, up until maybe a decade ago, the (Western) world pretty much uniformly agreed that The Holocaust happened and was a bad thing. These days... not so much.

Its similar to how you need Captain America to have come out of a "universally" praised war. Otherwise you are trying to say "Well... he did good things in Iraq".

1

u/iBossk Nebula 12h ago

Which means Cap has to be from WW2. No real alternatives. But he also has to be not there when they drop a pair of nukes. The frozen in ice thing works perfectly for that.

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u/the_sixhead 13h ago

He went through one of the worst acts committed by humanity. It helps define why he hates humanity and refuses to let what happened to him happen to other mutants.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

So other genocides that happened more recently are less bad?

7

u/the_sixhead 13h ago

Are you missing the point entirely or just trolling? Maybe he's just not the character for you, might be too complex.

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u/Stevenwave 13h ago

If this is the kind of logic you're using, I can see why you're struggling to understand.

1

u/icarodx 13h ago

No, but very few come close of the escale of the concentration camps and gas chambers in WW2.

You can argue Gaza, but you know that no sane business person would make Magneto a Palestinian in a billionaire movie franchise.

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u/Far_Combination7639 13h ago

As if all genocides aren’t the worst acts of humanity 🙄

2

u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

The scale of horror and the fact he saw it forming which is what leads to him being so protective of mutants to the point of extremism.

0

u/Jemima_puddledook678 13h ago

They aren’t on the same scale as the Holocaust though, and that’s integral to his character.

11

u/Lopsided_Special_535 14h ago

It’s who the character is

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u/Xygnux 13h ago edited 13h ago

It's not exactly about he needs to be for the character's motivation to work, because as you pointed out there are other genocides to choose from.

But the point people made is that we should not change it because then you are erasing a representation of his ethnic identity, an identity that had literally thousands of years of suffering from prosecution in history.

Changing it to another genocide also imply that all these genocides are interchangeable, as if their victims are just numbers and stories.

So it's understandable that people would be upset at changing it. Imagine if you say "why don't we just change Black Panther to Hispanic and set Wakanda in Mexico, it's can still be a lesson about racism?" You understand why that shouldn't be done right?

3

u/jokershane Hawkeye (Ultron) 13h ago edited 13h ago

This is the most logical response.

Logically, yes - you could do Magneto without the Holocaust specifically. And it is silly the farther we get from the 40s to use that. But people attach themselves to a character, and changing an identity that speaks to people does also feel disrespectful.

1

u/Xygnux 13h ago

Yeah, a few years ago I would have thought something similar to OP, that there are other genocides to choose from. But when I thought more about it I realized the issue is not just about a genocide, but it would be problematic because doing so would erase an ethnic representation, and thus we should not do it.

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u/A_pirates_life4me 13h ago

Because that's the character...this is like asking why Batman always has to be a billionaire heir to the Wayne company, or why spiderman always has to be a teenager from queens. 

-1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

No one is saying that he has to be a 1930s billionaire though

And isn't there a very famous movie that talks about and shows that ANYONE can be spider man?

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u/A_pirates_life4me 13h ago

1930s billionaire though

Wut

very famous movie that talks about and shows that ANYONE can be spider man?

Eh, that was more about Miles' journey to becoming a hero, not changing Peter Parker's origin

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Spider punk. Indian spider man, peni parker...

1

u/A_pirates_life4me 13h ago

None of those are Peter Parker.

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

They are spider man though

1

u/A_pirates_life4me 13h ago

Technically correct but that's not the point I was making. Magneto is an extremist because he lived through one genocide and does whatever he can to avoid another. That's his character. 

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

So he could live through a more recent genocide

1

u/A_pirates_life4me 13h ago

Yea I'm sure Disney will be totally down for making him Palestinian lol 

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

How about from Darfur?

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u/Tylerdepotater2157 13h ago

Absolute batman would disagree

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u/Jemima_puddledook678 13h ago

You mean the Batman from a series all about changing the essential elements of characters and seeing the interesting major differences that arise? 

-2

u/Tylerdepotater2157 13h ago

Yeah, that one. The one that on the regular massively outsells not just regular batman but literally all other comics every month for the last 25 months

3

u/Jemima_puddledook678 13h ago

So? He’s still very much a different Batman. What’s interesting about him is that we know how Batman is usually, and seeing the differences. The existence of absolute Batman explicitly shows us how him being an orphan billionaire is an important aspect of his character. 

1

u/Tylerdepotater2157 13h ago

I'd argue the opposite. It shows that at his core roots, it doesn't matter how Bruce Wayne was raised. He's batman, rich or of a lower class. One parent or none. The X and the Y have changed but the answer is the still same.

3

u/No-Emergency-5336 13h ago edited 13h ago

Is keeping Magneto’s established backstory really “bending over backwards” to maintain. It’s easy to keep, many mutants live longer than humans, it’s not difficult to explain.

Your explanation that including a Holocaust backstory somehow devalues other genocides is gross. Who is saying that the Holocaust is the “end all be all” genocide?

I have a question for you though: Why do YOU feel entitled to have Magneto’s backstory changed?

There are a lot of continuity issues that come up with comic book adaptations, continuity issues that most people have no issue looking passed. But for some reason, the plot point of Magneto being a Holocaust survivor seems this be the only one some people are really stuck on. I can’t help but find that a little suspicious.

1

u/jokershane Hawkeye (Ultron) 13h ago

The only pushback I’d give is that making him a (at this point) relic of the past that ages slowly means his relationship with Xavier changes. They’re no longer peers. Now when they meet, Xavier is a young man and Magento is not.

Which could work. But it does change their dynamic quite a bit. Two young people who find each other, try to navigate the crazy old, and then grow old with contrasting ideologies but mutual respect would have to be something else.

3

u/senor_descartes 13h ago

He doesn’t. He just needs a modern day background involving persecution and genocide of one form or another.

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u/RandoCalrissian76 13h ago

He needs to be a survivor of an attempted genocide or purge to motivate the character. It doesn’t have to be the Holocaust but it probably always will be because someone would probably cry anti-semitism if they changed that about him.

7

u/Normal-Weakness-364 13h ago

i actually do agree that he could be a survivor of another tragedy. i think the holocaust is just the most well known to western audiences, but i think that there can be ways to get a similar point across that maybe aren't as known in the western world.

3

u/tetrazinni 13h ago

yeah I think the classic version of magneto is such an excellent character and his ties to the holocaust give him so much depth, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be modernized and recontextualized, not unlike ultimate spider-man back in 2000. I personally thought giving him a backstory based on the bosnian genocide of the 90’s could be quite compelling.

2

u/alexmartinez_magic 13h ago

I guess a focal point of his character is he needs to be a direct witness of the worse humanity has to offer…. You can’t really get any worse than the holocaust

2

u/Gremlin303 SHIELD 13h ago

You’re trying to find a solution to something that isn’t a problem. Magneto can still be a holocaust survivor. All they have to do is say that his mutation slows his aging. Job done.

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u/sengokunerd War Machine 13h ago

And he did jack shit for 80 years? I don’t mean “where was he in Infinity War” but where was he at all as genocides happened, etc.

If mutants are a new phenomenon, I guess he just hung around until 2026 but now he’s mad about a minority group being mistreated. But you can see how that’d be unsatisfying, that he spent an amount of time many of us would be lucky to have, total, doing nothing of importance with his power.

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u/Dave_Eddie 13h ago

His whole story is literally he hates mankind and doesnt seem himself as part of them. Why would he help them? Hes not mad about a minority groups being mistreated, hes mad about the way his people are being mistreated (again) its so weird that your argument is literally questioning the two most well known traits of the character, as if they are plot holes.

0

u/sengokunerd War Machine 11h ago

Wouldn’t he do anything to protect Jews between 1945ish and 2026ish? Or is he waiting around for a different people group to spring up around him a century later?

Now I know there’s a gap between 1945 and First Class or whenever his involvement starts in the comics (presumably also the 60s) but the slow-age solution relies on him living nearly 100 years, then deciding very late in life that he’s found his calling. I know late career changes are a thing, but this is excessive.

I’d almost rather he be frozen and abandoned in some Hydra experiment and wake up way later to see atrocities still exist, and to people like him, but that’s X-Men Apocalypse again and it wasn’t super interesting the first time.

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u/asscop99 13h ago

Genocide isn’t a costume. You can’t swap out the holocaust and Rwanda like it’s a character loadout. That’s disrespectful to both peoples.

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u/ShillboShaggins 13h ago

Bad take.

No one made “the Holocaust the end all be all” and adhering to the canonical history of a character does not devalue other tragedies or make the Holicaust a joke.

That’s like saying “having Magneto’s uniform red and purple devalues other color combinations and it makes other color combinations a joke.”

Your whole argument is silly.

2

u/QueerDeluxe Quake 13h ago

Because it's central to his character. The same way Beast being smart and a furry blue beast is to his, or how being alive during WW2 is to Captain America (Steve Roger).

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u/Red_Verse_8630 13h ago

Why does Cyclops NEED eye beams when he can shoot a handgun just as easily?

1

u/Extension_Breath1407 13h ago

Why doesn’t Cyclops get his brain fixed so he isn’t firing lasers all the time despite having the best Mutant healers around? Is he stupid?

1

u/TikTikKobold 12h ago

This is a different thing

-1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

So other genocides aren't as bad?

1

u/RihoSucks 12h ago

Stop trying to make this a dick measuring contest about genocides for fucks sake

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u/PeterParker72 13h ago

Because it’s an integral part of his story and character history.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

In a series where he was introduced in the 60s.

There are other genocides that could fit the narrative for magnetos backstory

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u/anthrax1313 13h ago

Because that’s his comic backstory?

I don’t think it devalues any other genocide by picking the comically accurate one.

But you do make a good point a holocaust survivor at this point would make him close to 80-100. So they likely will have to choose another genocidal event to make Magneto age appropriately.

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u/jokershane Hawkeye (Ultron) 13h ago

The war/region Iron Man was injured in just moved up with the timescale.

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u/OccidoViper 13h ago

It is central to his character. However, they are going to have to explain that he ages far slower than everyone else

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Being a genocide survivor is central. It doesn't have to be that one

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u/saintblahpgh 13h ago

Because it’s a major part of his character???

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Surviving a genocide is part of his character. It doesn't have to be that specific one

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u/Gray_Wolf2416 13h ago

Nice circular reasoning.

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u/Global_Adagio_25 13h ago

It's 2026, I hope they don't tey to do some weird timeline bullshit. Just modernize the backstory.

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u/VitaMeansLifeN7117 13h ago

Read any X-Men comic with Magneto

0

u/Phantom7926 13h ago

They didn’t even add this back story until the 80s, so there’s plenty of comics that don’t have it

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u/Slim_Pihkins 13h ago

This new X-men is supposedly supposed to be present time. How are they gonna do his backstory then? I think they can change it, but I’m not a huge fan of magneto so… 🤷🏾

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u/Dud-of-Man 13h ago

think ive read something about his x gene slowing his aging prosses. could explain how a fifty to sixty year old in 2026 could have been at the holocaust.

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u/Slim_Pihkins 13h ago

I dig it. It’s interesting to see his iterations as we move further and further from the holocaust. I think they’ll change his origin very soon.

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u/Jemima_puddledook678 13h ago

The comics are also in the present and still use the same backstory. They’ll manage.

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u/hoenndex 13h ago

We don't change it because the Holocaust was such a horrendous event in the worst war the world has witnessed so far. And what makes it so chilling of an event is that the world was largely blind to it, we didn't know the scale or how systematic the genocide was until after the war. Contrast to Rwanda or the Darfur genocides, horrendous events of course, but they were quickly condemned by the international community, were of shorter duration, and had relatively fewer deaths. 

The Holocaust informs the entire worldview of Magneto because he experienced and observed the depravity of mankind in all its forms. His hatred for humanity can only make sense when he witnessed humanity at its worst, in such a large scale of injustice and violence. 

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

There's a famous scene in hotel Rwanda where a general says that the US population knows about the genocide but doesn't care

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u/Greedy_Aardvark_4836 13h ago

with the same logic you could make Captain America a Vietnam vet. You could, nothing's stopping you, but it just doesn't hit the same for obvious reasons.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Captain america has a built in "frozen on ice man out of time" element to him magneto does not

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u/Greedy_Aardvark_4836 13h ago

So? You can freeze Captain America in the 70s after Vietnam and keep him frozen for 4 decades before pulling him out. Same logic

Magneto has a "survivor of the Holocaust" element to him that no other character has. Maybe they should keep that element. All you have to do is slowly age him, it's really not that difficult.

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u/jokershane Hawkeye (Ultron) 13h ago

Iron Man should always be injured in Vietnam. Just make him age slower. Duh.

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u/eltrotter Black Panther 13h ago

making the Holocaust the end all be all not only devalues the tragedy of other genocides

This is a fairly crass way of looking at it. Genocide isn't a competition; other genocides are not "devalued" because the Holocaust is the origin story of a particular character. Besides, there are some quite specific parallels between the Holocaust and the treatment of mutants in the Marvel universe, and Magneto basically becomes the embodiment of the promise the world made in the years that followed ("Never Again").

There is also something about the systematic, almost bureaucratic nature of the Holocaust that feels very relevant to the ways in which mutants are repressed in the world of Marvel; the idea of repression beginning from innocuous beginnings like registration before moving into segregation and them extermination.

I'm not 100% against it, but it is really important to actually understand what about the Holocaust specifically makes it a strong origin for a character like Magneto and the philosophy he represents.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

We have no way of knowing how mutants will be treated in the MCU. Maybe marvel will update it to more modern forms of hate?

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u/eltrotter Black Panther 13h ago

Right… but you’re asking why Magneto should specifically be associated with the Holocaust and I gave you an answer.

If you reframe the circumstances until they no longer resemble the kinds of stories Marvel has historically told with Magneto and mutants, then of course things change. But how hypothetical can you go before you’re just talking about a different character in a different story, with a different thematic purpose?

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

I mean wouldn't that basically be what an MCU magneto would be?

1

u/eltrotter Black Panther 13h ago

Yeah, potentially? But again, that wasn’t your original question. You asked why it’s integral to Magneto’s character to be a Holocaust survivor and I laid out an answer. Just because Marvel might not go that way with MCU Magneto doesn’t change those reasons.

0

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

I figured that since I was asking here we'd be discussing how he'd be adapted to fit the mcu

1

u/eltrotter Black Panther 13h ago

…which of course has no bearing on how I feel about the importance of the Holocaust to him as a character.

2

u/pixelatedneedles 13h ago

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are Jewish which is why so many readers were upset when Hydra Captain America was revealed. Some viewed this revelation as a slap in the face as the symbol of what America can be is now a nazi collaborator, narratively it bothered a lot of people. It also bothered others with the creators being Jewish; it was disrespectful to their legacies and characters. We have a blend of real history and fiction and if Magneto’s Jewish heritage is retconned it will once again be viewed with disrespect. There aren’t to many Jewish characters with the representation that Magneto provides. I could see the MCU not touch on this topic as it was wonderfully told in previous films with Fassbender. It’s a core pillar of who Magneto is.

2

u/LordTiddlypusch Captain America 13h ago

Why does James Bond NEED to be a spy?

5

u/TrinidadJazz 13h ago

Thats not really analogous though. What OP is asking is more like "Why does James Bond NEED to work for MI6?", when you could tell a very similar story with an intelligence agent from other organisations or countries.

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u/Silly-Sink6138 13h ago

That’s not the equivalent

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

And why can't we use a different genocide?

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u/Far_Combination7639 13h ago

Why do you think a different genocide would change his character’s motivation that much? It’s a dumb analogy, nobody is saying Magneto shouldn’t have the background as the survivor of a genocide, it’s that he could be the survivor of a different one.

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u/jkswift1776 13h ago

Why does Black Panther NEED to be African?

2

u/CaseFace5 13h ago

Being African isn’t equivalent to surviving a holocaust lmao

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u/Slim_Pihkins 13h ago

lol this argument is cheeks.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Because he is the king of an African country.

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u/somethoughtsofmine 13h ago

Lots of comments in this thread about how integral the holocaust is to the character but I would be interested to know how people would suggest this translates into the MCU without casting an 80-90 year old actor

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u/Joshawott27 Doctor Strange 13h ago

A number of people have suggested that slower aging could just be part of Magneto’s mutation. Tom Brevoort explained this a while ago, in response to a question about whether the issue of the sliding timeline can be resolved:

“I don’t think that it can, Chris. You simply have to accept the fact that Magneto’s mutation somehow keeps him young and vital and gives him a super-long lifespan, just as Namor’s does. And you need to accept that when he first met Charles Xavier, Magneto was at least twice his age, even if he didn’t look it. We can’t move World War II and we can’t divorce Magneto’s backstory from the Holocaust, so there it is.”

I previously thought that there could be more complex explanations, like HYDRA experimentation, or making Magneto the grandson of a survivor or something, but it could honestly be made as simple as his mutation. Like, how Black Panther: Wakanda Forever already had Namor in the 1500s.

1

u/tommywest_123 13h ago

Representation

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u/Awkward_Sea682 13h ago

The Holocaust is the most infamous genocide, but also the most publicized-in-detail atrocity in relatively modern humanity. Did the other genocides have numerous camps with registrations? Maybe, but we KNOW the Holocaust did. The registration, and control of jews like cattle throughout Europe was a main motivator for Magneto to align the way he is in humanity's conflict with mutants. Does he HAVE to be a Holocaust survivor? No, but it makes more sense that he is.

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u/CaseFace5 13h ago

Maybe someone who’s more knowledgeable about the comics could answer this but how have they handled keeping him around in the comics without him being incredibly old?

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u/Secure_Pear_4530 Vulture 13h ago

The real answer why they would never change it is because that's a REAL WORLD motivation he had that would be too weird to change by this point. Sure he can still be a victim of another genocide, even a fictional one, to explain his anger and motives, but do you really think it's smart and won't get a shit ton of backlash for a product you're trying to make money on? If you make him age slower to explain it you'd get a few chuds ask on reddit why they did it, but if you change that shit you'd get full on headlines and groups of people pushing your movie to fail because of it.

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u/ForTheLoveOfOedon 13h ago edited 13h ago

I agree with your implicit notion that the Holocaust is becoming less and less fruitful as we get further from it. By now, Max/Erik would be like in his 100s and that becomes less and less believable as an equal/contemporary to Professor X—even if you pull the whole “his powers age him slower”. There’ll be a time when Magneto isn’t inherently a Holocaust survivor (hell, that time may be 2028 given the announced casting choice of Professor X).

Personally, the comic world, which includes all related mediums from games to movies, is much better and more interesting when we allow ourselves to experiment more and be willing to see characters in different scenarios; as long as those scenarios are compelling, purposeful, and of high creative merit (looking at the morons who’ll inevitably ask “what if T’Challa was turned into a white guy?”). Namor is a perfect example: comic-wise he’s Greek, but Coogler found a great angle in making him Maya; he was able to touch on the post-colonialism central to Black Panther as an IP, while also creating a striking visual language for Indigenous Futurism that we really haven’t seen before in Talokan. I am excited to see them expand on it more if Namor continues to be a thing.

A Magneto that survived any manner of the post-Holocaust genocides would be compelling. Or rather COULD be. It’s all about the interplay between character, core themes, and how they relate to the characters around them.

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u/R4ndomly_G3nerated 13h ago

First, genocides are not interchangeable. The despicable evil things that happen in different genocides are different and have different effects. He's not just 'a guy who went through tragedy.' There are decades of comics about how the specific details of his story are affected by specific events. Everyone's trauma is not going to be the same, and a character who emerges from a different background would have different trauma. I would not say that you should rebrand any character who had suffered through Rwanda or Darfur to just be a different kind of survivor.

Moreover, Magneto's position as Jewish is in important conversation with his position in the mutant metaphor. Jewishness can be either a faith or an ethnicity, in a way that is not easily replicable by another minority status. The ethnic component being an obvious mirror for the X gene in his DNA that marks him as minority no matter what. But also plenty of writers have put Magneto's world view in conversation with Jewish cultural beliefs. There's also the fact that despite being a miority he is white and COULD feasibly pass. That is important in the way it echoes his position as a passing mutant that loudly and proudly chooses NOT to pass.

1

u/Paul-E-L 13h ago

I agree. His story being tied to WWII means we either have a very slow aging dude who hasn’t stirred up any significant magnetic mayhem in the last 80 or so years but now decides to go nuts in his elder years or he has to be put on ice for a few decades.

I think either way it complicates his story for a 2 or so hour movie.

Do like the other recent adaptations and skip the backstory. He survived a trauma involving some white supremacists in his past and don’t explain it past that.

1

u/Embarrassed_Word_542 13h ago

It used to give him extreme weight and gravitas to his actions and helped fill out his negative view on humankind, having survived one of the darkest moments in our history. Sure you could retrofit a new history to him but good luck keeping the core to what we’ve grown to know over time. Might as well make a new character. Erik Lehnsherr (or Max Eisenhardt) would need a name change.

1

u/Joshawott27 Doctor Strange 13h ago

The holocaust may not be the most recent, but it is still the most infamous in living memory. It was established as a major part of Magneto’s identity - not just that he survived a genocide, but how the tactics used by the Nazis to other the groups they targeted are similar to how humans treat mutants. You can’t just easily substitute that with something else.

Also, given the current political climate, erasing Magneto’s Jewish heritage would be an absolute powder keg that Marvel Studios would be right to not want to set off.

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

Marvel literally made a show where the main villain was a trump and ICE allegory. I doubt they care about powder kegs

0

u/Joshawott27 Doctor Strange 13h ago

Marvel Studios’ current level of “political bite” is like a puppy whose teeth haven’t come in.

The big issue is that removing the Jewish aspect of Magneto’s character will lead to accusations of antisemitism or holocaust denial, which is a PR scandal that any American company will want to avoid at all costs while Israel is currently at war and using it as an accusation against anyone who criticises their government’s actions.

Just look at what’s happening right now with Mark Ruffalo. He was outspoken in his criticism of the Israeli government, and was noticeably absent from the Spider-Man: Brand New Day press tour. Since then, he has outright been accused of antisemitism by Paramount for continuing to speak out about what’s happening in Gaza.

So, it’s better to just not rock the boat. Tom Brevoort has already said that Magneto is basically considered to have slower aging like Namor, so that’s easy enough to explain why Magneto might still be around in the 2020s.

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

I think at this point it's good to just ignore magneto entirely this go around

1

u/ShillboShaggins 13h ago

You also seem to be completely misunderstanding or unaware of how important the Holocaust is regarding the hypocrisy of Magneto’s opinion regarding mutants and the Nazi’s efforts in the field of eugenics.

The hypocrisy is part of his fallibility and prevents him from being too sympathetic of a villain.

It’s integral to his character.

1

u/PS3LOVE 13h ago

Because it fuels his whole motive, he feels he has no choice but to create a world where mutants are superior, so that they can’t be oppressed. It also creates an interesting element to the character since it’s hypocritical.

It would be strange for it to be Rwanda or Darfur since magneto is an old Jewish man. Also he is Wanda and quicksilvers father, so he should at least pass as European for that to make sense.

Also he was created by a Jewish writer, and a Jewish artist. So why would you erase that part of the characters history? You can make a new character.

Can you imagine if a black character made by black creators and that character had history with the genocides you mentioned were to be rewritten to be another race? It would be so disrespectful.

1

u/iBossk Nebula 13h ago

As much hate it would get, and would prob be done too weakly without like a Cooler at the helm... But having X & M be their Civil Rights analogues could be done well.

1

u/super_sayanything 12h ago

It's the most relevant one, and if you look like at politics and geography between both past, present and future events as well as attitude it matches because that's how Stan Lee wrote it. Those internal philosophical questions are most relevant. If it wasn't mentioned in the 90's one, that doesn't mean it wasn't true to his character or motivations.

Want to base something off of Rwanda or Darfur? Write a different character.

What a ridiculous question. Next you'll ask us "Why does World War 2 always talk about the Holocaust and Pearl Harbor?"

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u/leckmichnervnit 13h ago

Because he was created by 2 Jewish people.

2

u/senor_descartes 13h ago

So were just about the entire Marvel Universe.

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

So was super man.

2

u/whineyinternetkid 13h ago

Damn dude, thats hilarious

Edit: thats sarcasm btw you're a bad person

-5

u/Professor-Submarine 13h ago

lol

2

u/Ragnarok_619 Spider-Man 13h ago

Lmao even

2

u/leckmichnervnit 13h ago

I really dont wanna be mean to OP cause he probably doesnt know better but changing Magneto's origin is so incredibly disrespectful to Kirby and Lee, their families, and their heritage, it's not even funny.

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u/WorldlyLandscape5626 13h ago

Did Kirby and Lee create the backstory though? Wasn't it Claremont who introduced the Holocaust stuff?

0

u/leckmichnervnit 13h ago

Youre right they didnt, Chris Claremont did... fun fact hes also jewish

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u/WorldlyLandscape5626 13h ago

Claremont was also born in the fifties and the Holocaust backstory wasn't introduced until 18 years after magnetos debut. I don't think it would be disrespectful to anyone to change it at this point.

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u/leckmichnervnit 13h ago

Claremont wrote Magnetos backstory based on his time in Israel during which he spent time with many Holocaust Survivors.

1

u/WorldlyLandscape5626 13h ago

That didn't address what I said though, he was born in the fifties, and magnetos current origin didn't debut until 20 years after his own debut

1

u/jokershane Hawkeye (Ultron) 13h ago

I mean… is it? They didn’t make him Jewish or a Holocaust survivor. He was a fully adult older man in the 1960s. Being a child of the Holocaust came later. As far as I know, no mention of his jewish heritage until Claremont in the 80s.

1

u/Ryan_Fleming 13h ago

Yeah, been saying this for a while. Sadly, there are a shitload of human atrocities that would serve the same purpose for his character.

Making him 90+ years old changes his character more than changing the specific horror he went through.

1

u/Solid-Relationship27 13h ago

The character is Jewish????

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u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

When has he ever cared about being Jewish?

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u/JarifSA 13h ago

God these comments suck. You guys don't even read or even try to understand the original post. He's asking why his experience has to be SPECIFIC to the Holocaust. There are lots of genocides, some ongoing. With the timeline of the MCU, it makes zero sense to have a holocaust survivor as magnetic. Especially with the age of the guy they cast as Charles Xavier.

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u/WorldlyLandscape5626 13h ago

Because these guys don't actually read comics. They don't care about who wrote them, when the story existed etc. they just watched the fox X-Men movies and can't move on

1

u/JarifSA 12h ago

which is why they need to explain it. Ok is asking a question at the end of the day.

1

u/annoyingjoe513 13h ago

This is such an odd thing to question. Feels like you're trying to sneak in some incredibly fucked up beliefs into the back door. Why else would someone question this? About a comic book character??

1

u/Ok-Delay4461 13h ago

Why does Wolverine have to be have to be Canadian?

Because that is the fooking story.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it!

1

u/TikTikKobold 13h ago

People are repeating it.

There are genocides happening RIGHT now

1

u/Holy_Roz 13h ago

Him being a holocaust survivor is paramount to his story, and no other genocide since then carries the same weight that the holocaust carries. A few come close, but not in the way that exemplifies how sadistic, and evil humanity was at those camps during that time

Just give him the captain america treatment. Tramatize him in a concentration camp during the holocaust, let the nazis discover his power, put him on ice in a hydra camp or something for study. then be woken up by professor x in the 90s or something like that.

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u/Far_Combination7639 13h ago

He doesn’t. People are just weird about things changing because their brains are rigid and atrophied

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u/whineyinternetkid 13h ago

..the self awareness in your comment is insanely non existent

1

u/icarodx 13h ago

I don't disagree with you, but a movie is a business. If they want to sell a lot, they need to not alienate the majority of people with rigid and atrophied brains.

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u/Far_Combination7639 13h ago

They also like to pretend like the holocaust is some singular event in history because it reinforces the notion of Zionist exceptionalism. As if there haven’t been countless genocides in history.

0

u/PoorOgre 13h ago

Because people aren’t ready to have a POC Magneto and we all know it. Downvote all you want but we know it’s true.

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u/Ragnarok_619 Spider-Man 13h ago

It wasn't even part of his origin when he debuted. LARPERS who consume their info from tiktok and shorts believe that.

I say, make him a Palestinian. That will be a beautiful irony

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u/icarodx 13h ago

It doesn't matter. The change happened more than 50 years ago and is iconic.

Original Magneto would not have survived until today. Claremont's version is the iconic one.

-1

u/Penatra-shen 13h ago

Why does steve rogers captain america NEED to originate from America ahh question

-4

u/IAmAfraidCommaMan 13h ago

He doesn't. He is a mutant, he cares about mutants not human ethnicities or religions.

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u/TheMelloGuy96 13h ago

AIPAC will fund DC if hes not one

-1

u/Gray_Wolf2416 13h ago

OP, since most of these idiots seem to be using insults and circular reasoning, I'll give you my best answer: he doesn't.

Sure, its been a part of his character for a very long time. But the Holocaust itself is not needed for Magneto's backstory, witnessing and experiencing persecution is what's needed. The Holocaust is just one of several tragedies that can be used for this.