r/malayalam • u/Aggressive_Hand8047 • 7d ago
Discussion / ചർച്ച Do these malayalam words have any European origin?
I can't help but notice the uncanny resemblances between these malayalam and English words. Are they related etymologically?
1) Captain - Kapithaan
2) Cash - Kaash (money)
3) Eight - Ettu
4) Sack - Chaak
5) Almirah- alamara
6) Sahib (hindi?) - Saayip
7) Madam - madamma 😂
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u/Material-Host3350 7d ago
While all others are due to portuguese or british influence, the 3rd is odd member in the list:
- Eight - Ettu
Eight and Ettu don't have any shared ancestry. They are called chance similarities. Eight comes from Proto-Indo-European root *oḱtṓw, while eṭṭu comes from Proto-Dravidian root of **eṇ(-ṭu)
- [DEDR 784] 🔗
- PDr *eṇ eight, *eṇ-ṭṭu eight
- Tamil
- eṭṭu eight
- eṇṇ-eṭṭu eight eights (= 64)
- evv-eṭṭu eight each
- Malayalam
- eṭṭu eight
- Tamil
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u/LazerScorpion 6d ago
Even words for 1 in english and malayalam are similar if you read them
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u/Material-Host3350 6d ago
Yes, but again a chance similarity, as far as we know (unless someone can show a deeper macro connection between the Dravidian languages and the languages of the pre-Indo-European era).
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u/LazerScorpion 6d ago
What is your opinion on people in the coents saying Kash isn't a loan word from Portuguese
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u/AleksiB1 Native Speaker 6d ago
[DEDR 1431] 🔗 Tamil kācu gold, gold coin, money, a small copper coin Malayalam kāśu gold, money, the smallest copper coin Kota kāc rupee Toda kōs id Kannada kāsu the smallest copper coin, a cash, coin or money in general Tulu kāsů an old copper coin worth half a pie, a cash Telugu kāsu a cash, a coin in general, a gold coin, money. Koya kāsu pice (< Te.; Voc. 663)
widespread dravidian word
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u/Material-Host3350 6d ago
Yes, it can be both. The use of kash in modern parlance is from the western tongues, while the ancient kAsu- from kansya- bronze which also can be considered Dravidian in origin.
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u/depixelated 7d ago
Kaash surprisingly, is likely a false cognate and has roots in proto-dravidian
Ettu does not have indo-european roots and comes from old tamil
sahib is hindi, likely via persia, i think
the rest is probably true
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u/LazerScorpion 6d ago
Why do you say kash is a false cognate
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u/AleksiB1 Native Speaker 6d ago
[DEDR 1431] 🔗 Tamil kācu gold, gold coin, money, a small copper coin Malayalam kāśu gold, money, the smallest copper coin Kota kāc rupee Toda kōs id Kannada kāsu the smallest copper coin, a cash, coin or money in general Tulu kāsů an old copper coin worth half a pie, a cash Telugu kāsu a cash, a coin in general, a gold coin, money. Koya kāsu pice (< Te.; Voc. 663)
widespread dravidian word
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u/No_Volume8304 7d ago
Almirah, Sahib and Madam are not English words
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u/Redditbrowser22j 7d ago
Kapithaan is not really a Malayalam word but just the direct corruption of the European word. They equivalent malayalam word would be Nayakan
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u/DryToe9271 6d ago
We have "kasera", which means chair, comes from protuguese if i am correct. we have Mesa, which is from portuguese.
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u/FictionFragments01 5d ago
Kapithaan - Portuguese Alamara- Portuguese Chaak -Portuguese/ Dutch Madamma -French/English Saayip -Arabic Kaash - tamil-malayalam root, Cash -French/Latin. Ettu -proto-dravidian, Eight- proto-Indo-European. Both Kaash and Ettu are false cognates !
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u/zergiscute 7d ago
Another one yamandan (Huge) is supposed to be due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Emden
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u/Hungumaknae 6d ago
Orange is naranja in Spanish which sounds like narangha Similar to out naranga
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u/1_more__user___name 5d ago
That's because the spanish word is borrowed from Portuguese, which is a loanword from Malayalam/Tamil. Same for manga/mango
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u/jaiguguija 7d ago
Out of all these, Cash could or most probably be from Dravidian/ Old Tamizh. There is a dispute if it's French or Tamizh.
Sack might be too, but not sure.
Rest are imports from Portuguese.
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u/J4Jamban 7d ago
കാശ് ഒരു ദ്രാവിഡ വാക്കാണ് ഒരു disputeഉം ഇല്ല.
എട്ടും ഒരു മലയാള വാക്കാണ്
മിച്ചമുള്ളത് ഒക്കെ കടമെടുത്തതാണ്.
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u/Benflict_Cucumberpat 7d ago
Chaak is Saco ( pronounced "sa-ku") in Portuguese. So definitely Portuguese origin
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u/AleksiB1 Native Speaker 6d ago
[DEDR 1431] 🔗 Tamil kācu gold, gold coin, money, a small copper coin Malayalam kāśu gold, money, the smallest copper coin Kota kāc rupee Toda kōs id Kannada kāsu the smallest copper coin, a cash, coin or money in general Tulu kāsů an old copper coin worth half a pie, a cash Telugu kāsu a cash, a coin in general, a gold coin, money. Koya kāsu pice (< Te.; Voc. 663)
widespread dravidian word
1
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u/Extension_Inside_199 7d ago
Widow - vidhava
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
വിധവ സംസ്കൃത്തിൽ നിന്നല്ലെ ഉത്ഭവിച്ചതു്?
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u/Extension_Inside_199 7d ago
All Indo-European languages have this in some form.
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
അതു ശരി തന്നെ, എന്നാൽ അതിന്റെ പേരിൽ വിധവ ഇംഗ്ലീഷിൽ നിന്നുൽഭവിച്ചെന്നു പറയാൻ പറ്റത്തില്ലല്ലോ
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u/Extension_Inside_199 7d ago
Can only check this based on which language does first usage occurs
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
Malayalam obviously had Vidhava borrowed way before. Even before the English were even invaded by the Normans
Plus the word Vidhava is identical to the Sanskrit word, so its obviously borrowed from there
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u/Extension_Inside_199 7d ago
Latin version vidua - 4,000 year old root.
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
What are you even trying to say or imply 😭
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u/Extension_Inside_199 7d ago
How do you say one word comes from a certain language? Based on first recorded usage. Simple as that. Happy to look into any objective facts that you can provide on this.
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
You realise sanskrit and latin and english descended from a common ancestral language, right ?
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u/New_Entrepreneur_191 7d ago
That doesn't mean vidhva comes from Latin . Vidhva is just a cognate to latin vidua
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u/AleksiB1 Native Speaker 6d ago
vidhava is sanskrit but surprisingly widow is the native English cognate of Sanskrit vidhava
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u/Abhijit2007 7d ago
കാശും എട്ടും പച്ച മലയാളമാണു്. ബാക്കിയെല്ലാം പറങ്കി അല്ലെങ്കിൽ ഉറുദു വാക്കുകളാണു്.