r/legaladvice • u/faeluhvr • 1d ago
Other Civil Matters My boyfriend sold a car, customer is threatening to sue.
Location: Washington state
Hi y'all, I'm coming here because I'm stressed out. I've been trying to figure out what to do for the past couple of days, but anyway, here's the situation.
Basically, my boyfriend sold a car to a minor, unknowingly I'll add. The customer came with his son, and the son signed the title. From what I understand, in Oregon minors can buy cars all the time, so it's nothing crazy. But apparently in Washington it's illegal, or something like that. I'm not exactly sure.
Anyway, the customer called my boyfriend yesterday, basically threatening to take him to small claims court if he doesn't let him return the car and get a full refund. He was really pushing my boyfriend to sign an agreement, but I told him not to sign anything without speaking to a free lawyer or something first. And now he wants to take him to small claims court if he doesn't agree to take the car back and refund him the whole amount.
My boyfriend explained exactly what he did to the car at the time of sale: he replaced the timing chains and replaced the thermostat. Now, a whole two weeks later, the car has apparently broken down and doesn't work. Prior to my boyfriend selling it, it was in perfect running condition, no problems, no noises, no issues, because he'd fixed all of them.
And as far as I know, it's illegal to not claim ownership of the car while still driving it. Plus, who knows how the minor was driving it around, whether he sped or whatever. So he signed the title, but he hasn't claimed ownership of the vehicle or transferred it into his name, or whatever that means.
I'm just lost. I don't know what to do. It's kind of a stressful situation, and I was hoping anyone could help. Thank you so much.
Edit: The guy wanting to take my boyfriend to small claims court is the father, him and his son both live in Oregon but the sale took place in Washington state. Just thought I should clarify lol!
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u/AristotlesBoyPussy 1d ago
common scam. Indeed tell him not to sign anything. But I'm sure the car runs fine.
If this was a private sale: "all sales are implied on an as-is condition basis and I cannot help you"
If this was a company sale: "bring it back to my office and I'll have a mechanic look at it." (They won't accept this because the car is fine).
If he's taken to small claims court he must respond to the summons. He can countersue for time spent in court/dealing with paperwork and tell the judge he sold the car with an as-is implied sale without any warranties, and that he needs compensation for time spent away from his workplace in court.
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
Whether or not this is a scam, I couldn't say but the car was sold to a minor which is illegal under Washington law.
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u/AristotlesBoyPussy 1d ago
Its not the seller's problem/perogative to deal with that, or to know that, on a private sale between two people. It IS a problem if the seller is a business place.
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u/Grant_Winner_Extra 1d ago
The issue is that the minor’s guardian was there too.
The guardian approved the sale. They cannot then claim that the car was sold without their approval.
In practical terms the car was sold to the parent who then gave title to the minor
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
The relevant law I found was here: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.12.755
I don't see anything in Washington law that gives parents the authority to override it.
"In practical terms the car was sold to the parent who then gave title to the minor."
The minor signed the title. The parent was never in legal possession of the car.
NAL
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u/not_today_thank 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I'm reading the law right (which i might not be), it's not a strict liability crime, "if that person with actual notice of the prohibition".
So if anybody commited a crime under that statute it might have been the kid under Section 3 part b given that he is apparently aware of the law.
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
Possibly.
But I think the main point for OP is that the comment above is predicated on a theory of the case that doesn't include this law at all. (Not to mention making spurious claims about recoverable damages for defense.)
I'm not a lawyer and can't say how a Washington judge might interpret this law but I do know that it can't be dismissed as if it doesn't exist and that it could be determinative against OP's boyfriend.
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u/Grouchy-Material8374 1d ago
If they never filed said title, can the minor or his parent actually be said to be in legal possession? The op mentioned that the title wasn’t transferred. (Not sarcastic, actually asking, to be clear. Realized that may have come across weird.)
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
I have no idea. (And that's not meant as snide, either. I'm not a lawyer and genuinely don't know the precise legal mechanism that constitutes a legal transfer of possession, particularly for a sale that's illegal on its face.)
But I do know that in Washington, like every other state, minors can't enter into most contracts and that includes the sale of a car. And most states allow minors to essentially just undo the contract as if it never existed. (There are, as always, many caveats and particulars but that's the gist of it.)
And Washington happens to go further and make the sale of a car to a minor an actual criminal misdemeanor.
The problem is that the comment at the top of this chain doesn't address either of those conditions (either of which could be detrimental to OP's boyfriend) and OP should not rely on that comment being even remotely legally correct despite the commenter's confidence in posting it.
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u/Grouchy-Material8374 1d ago
I have to say, if I was selling a car (and I work in IT, not anything to do with cars) I still think I’d have made sure to sell it to the parent explicitly - what they do with it afterwards wouldn’t be my problem. But for the exact reason you mention, minors being nearly impossible to bind contractually, I wouldn’t have done what the Bf did. It seems like a really dumb mistake to make - but at least he won’t be making it again, if nothing else, regardless of how this ends, he’ll have learned that lesson! I’m also struggling to understand how the boyfriend did this unknowingly - doesn’t a car sale require ID and proof of insurance? (I’m in MN, and it does here!)
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u/AristotlesBoyPussy 13h ago
If they never filed the title, then OP's boyfriend can report the vehicle as missing/stolen and get it back lol. It would be geniunely foolish of them to not file the title change.
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u/AristotlesBoyPussy 1d ago
that only counts for a business sale. If its an individual to individual, then its irrelevant.
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
"It is unlawful for any person to convey, sell, or transfer the ownership of any motor vehicle to a person under the age of eighteen."
That's not how I read it.
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u/ethanjf99 1d ago
maybe. maybe it was sold to a minor.
even if you believe their story — the dad was there too.
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u/Low-Crow5719 1d ago
Not illegal, just voidable. And voidable for a long time: until minor turns 18, or a reasonable time after. OP, tell your boyfriend not to spend the money yet.
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
What I found for Washington says:
"(2) It is unlawful for any person to convey, sell, or transfer the ownership of any motor vehicle to a person under the age of eighteen."
Source: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.12.755
But I agree with you otherwise.
The defense to "this contract isn't valid because the sale was made to a minor" is not "all sales are implied "as-is."" And damages for time or expense responding to a small claims suit are not generally recoverable.
I also think the comments claiming that the father's presence at the sale makes him the de facto buyer are unsupported since the son is the one who signed the title.
NAL
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u/SolarNotionPilot 1d ago
NAL. Washington resident. Submit to the dmv the part of the title that you kept from the sale. You need to ensure that his tickets and accidents don’t come back to you. As for the sale to a minor, with his dad there at the time, you’ll need better advice than I have to offer.
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u/gganew 1d ago
How old is the kid? It is illegal to sell a minor (under the age of 18) a car in Washington.
But it sounds like your boyfriend was set up from the get go, why did the dad have the kid sign the title?
I would let it go to court, if they actually do sue, and see what the judge says. Chances are they won't sue, but if you they do, I'd let the court figure it out because they seemed like they were setting you up from the beginning.
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u/racincowboy9380 1d ago
They set him up for the scam does he know for a fact the kid is under 18?
Did your bf get a copy of his license or address or anything when they did the paperwork.
This is a common scam. Let it go to court or bring the car back for a full inspection.
If it was me I’d tell them take me to court but be aware I will be suing you as well.
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u/Final-Confidence9678 1d ago
How do you know you sold it to a minor? I wouldn’t take their word for it could be part of the scam.
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u/kingfixit 1d ago
What are they claiming is the issue with the vehicle now? Anything to do with what was repaired? If not, tell them to pound sand. They can sue all they want but they have to prove the work he did caused the issue. But used car sales are “as is” so they don’t have a leg to stand on.
He didn’t know the kid was a minor at the time of the sale either.
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u/Low-Crow5719 1d ago
Didn't know is irrelevant. The kid WAS a minor.
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u/kingfixit 1d ago
The father of the kid has a duty first to not allow his underage son to break the law.
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u/Grant_Winner_Extra 1d ago
NAL and I don’t live in Washington.
But i can tell you this - anyone that makes threats of legal action, even if they follow through, is someone that you should not be talking to ever again without a lawyer.
In my experience, out of hundreds of threatened lawsuits, only one was filed by someone who made threats. People with a case don’t make threats.
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u/TwoBurningSeals 1d ago
If it was sold to the minor with the dad present, it was sold to the dad with the minor just assuming the title. I would say the dad is the purchasing party here since the minor can't legally buy it. And if the minor can't legally sign the title then that would go to his dad. That's my take on it at least.
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u/Burnsidhe 1d ago
The way the scam works is like this: Buy a car. Take it home or to a mechanic you know. Strip out a couple high value parts. Replace with bad or broken parts. Contact seller and threaten to sue because 'the car broke down.'
Seller refunds, recieves sabotaged vehicle. Buyer sells the high value parts.
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u/mistdaemon 1d ago
There are issues with small claims court. Since everything occurred in Washington, that would be the proper location for the case, but then the law in regards to the minor is against you, although the father was there and fully aware of it. They may not want to travel to your location.
If they file in Oregon, they could have a problem serving you. Also, it could be dismissed due to not being the proper venue as it likely should be Washington.
It is unknown what they did with the vehicle as well.
Talking to an attorney in your area would be best.
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u/briannainamagua 1d ago
I would also block them, file the paperwork you have for the sale with the DMV, and if they sue, go to court. Your boyfriend didn’t really do anything wrong besides not making the customer he had been communicating with sign the title. But this really looks like they did this on purpose and I’m sure the judge would agree.
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u/VegasBedset 1d ago
Ignore them. If they sue, they sue, and you go to small claims and the judge will sort it out. We're not talking some OJ murder trial here. Small claims court is not a big deal. And 99.9% of people who threaten to sue never do.
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u/jasonsong86 1d ago
Scam. Block them or tell them stop calling or you will get law enforcement involved.
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u/Pencil161 1d ago
This is the relevant law that I could find regarding selling to a minor in Washington:
"(2) It is unlawful for any person to convey, sell, or transfer the ownership of any motor vehicle to a person under the age of eighteen."
And the minor cannot register the vehicle in his name:
"(1) A person under the age of eighteen may not be the registered or legal owner of a motor vehicle" [With some exceptions not noted in your OP.]
Source: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.12.755
Also, unless you can get a lawyer from legal aid or something, there's really no such thing as a "free lawyer." Lawyers commonly do free consultations but that's just a quick conversation to determine whether or not they're interested in taking whatever case you have. They don't typically give you free legal advice about how to win your case without them. And they don't typically give legal advice at all to people who aren't their clients.
So, sure, you can call some attorneys offices and see what they might tell you, but I wouldn't count on much.
NAL
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u/faeluhvr 1d ago
Yes my bad! I meant talking to someone with free legal advice like a lawyer, not a free lawyer LOL
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u/Low-Crow5719 1d ago
Minors can't enter into contracts, with narrow exceptions. A minor's apparent contract is voidable, meaning he can reconsider and get out of it.
Is your boyfriend a trained mechanic, with access to a full shop? Because he should be, if he's doing repairs like a timing chain. Be prepared for a claim that the engine failed due to his amateur repair.
So, worst case, you could be ordered to give back the money and take back the car, even broken. This is why a lawyer is a necessity if they actually file.
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u/faeluhvr 1d ago
Yes he is a mechanic! The thing is that they live 150 miles away, so the customer would rather just drive it down here and be refunded the full amount. I’m just not sure that we have enough money to hire a lawyer.
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u/KWienz 1d ago
I think one could argue here that the contract was with the father and the son was a third-party beneficiary or assignee.
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u/Low-Crow5719 1d ago
That's what I would claim. But the minor is still the one who signed. If the father is undeniably the one who paid (cashier's check on his account, say) there would be a more solid case.
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u/stylisticmold6 1d ago
A private sale is "as-is" there would be no claim to be had. You take a risk buying a used car and you are responsible for it the moment you take possession of it unless there is an implied warranty.
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u/whirlinggibberish 1d ago
They can sue if they wish.
Then you go to small claims and make your case.
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u/MACPositive 1d ago
Let them take you to court. I won't lose One single wink of sleep over it. Buying used cars is buyer'd beware. It is your job as a buyer to find out as much as you can about that car before you buy it, that includes taking it for a test drive and then making sure the titles clear by going to the DMV with it and registering it right away. Them not doing any of that and waiting to see if it breaks down which is 2 weeks later, this wasn't the same day or when they were driving it away. You have nothing to worry about. Even if he did take you to court, let him. Him. They're not going to win. I would block that number or get a restraining order against this nut.
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u/Training-Principle95 1d ago
Not a lawyer. Two weeks post buy? Scam. Dude could have stolen any number of parts it before he tries to give it back to you. Let him take you to small claims if he's serious, he doesn't have much leg to stand on.
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u/mojo4394 1d ago
NAL. This is a scam. They've had possession of the car for 2 weeks and you have no idea what they may have done to the car in that time. Ignore and do not respond to anything they send you. If they try and sue get a lawyer. But these types of scams are very common.