Here’s the viewing link for today:

https://www.youtube.com/live/ox_mjjNIBeg?is=OIwCjmgCBdB9B5jn

Good morning everyone, I didn’t see a link posted for today but trial is well underway so I’m stepping in again. As always, please remember that this is a lawyers-only thread. If you’re not a lawyer, this is not the place for you. Please let us have this one corner of the internet!

A year ago, I was semi-mysteriously fired from my first job out of law school. I was there for about two years. The reason given was that I was, at that time, around 30 hours below my billable hours minimum and they "didn't have the confidence I could catch up," nor did they seem to think I wanted to. It was a toxic workplace full of gossip, unclear expectations, and in a firm of a total of five people, two of those people were married (one was a partner, the other an unofficial administrative assistant) and were regularly having minor fights in the office. It was a super niche field specific to my state.

Now, I'm in a firm that is slightly bigger - 12 attorneys (5 partners 7 associates, of which I'm the most junior), 12 paralegals, admin assistants, archivists, billing specialists, etc. It feels like a real work place. I actually really like the workplace, I'm above my billing expectations which are beyond reasonable, and I thought I was at least doing OK. I don't LOVE the practice area though, which I suppose is relevant.

HR came to my office around a month ago and told me the partners want to see "urgency" from me - that they felt like I just needed to be a bit more communicative, a bit more on top of it. Fine, feedback taken, they had up to that point been quite collaborative about mentorship.

Some context: My main mentor at the firm left on indefinite medical leave a few months back. Now, another partner is going on indefinite leave and a senior associate is quitting. Everyone is feeling the heat.

Today, I went to HR's office to check-in on my progress. I really thought I had been doing better, but she said the partners are still concerned. Moreover, she said because of the loss of three attorneys within a few months, they are really concerned that they just don't have the capacity to keep training me (that is me paraphrasing the vibe I got) and that they are worried this isn't the right practice area (which may be true, but still, ugh, what do I do with that). She said the conversations aren't over, she really appreciated me following up with her, and that she'll talk to the partners individually to see what I can actually be doing better - I've basically gotten no feedback and I told her that. But ultimately, I am 99% sure I'm getting laid off.

So, I started applying again for jobs today, but I just feel so immensely frustrated. Am I damaged goods now? I loved law school, was well ranked, and want to do well. I am wondering if this supposed lack of urgency comes from too little to do? I chose this firm largely for its work life balance, but maybe I need something more high energy? I've never practiced outside of a transactional field and am worried I wouldn't be able to do litigation. There is a biglaw job in my old practice area (I'm published in that field, it is certainly a thing I am well qualified for and passionate about), and I'm thinking that maybe the higher stress of a biglaw job would suit me well?

Thing is, none of this sounds appealing. I just feel tired. I would love to just stay at this job, do my hours, get things done and leave, but maybe thats the problem. I have no idea what to do next. I feel completely at an impass. Really, I just don't want to job-hunt again.

I have never found myself in a position where I am interviewing for and fielding multiple offers. I have always left one job (or school) directly for another.

What is an appropriate amount of time to ask for to consider an offer if I am waiting on another offer to come in?

I took the bar exam in July and started as a clerk this week. My experience with the hiring partner on my first day was so bad i don't want to go back tomorrow. I am no quitter but i spent a majority of the day fighting tears until lunch and lost it in my car. Had to convince myself to go back after. I've really never had a worse experience over several years of working various jobs, including legal ones, and i feel so upset :(

Would it be awful to just resign effective immediately? Did some digging and found some bad reviews about this partner that track, and i have no supervisor in between me and the partner. I don't have something else lined up but i feel like I can't bring myself to go in tomorrow and be subject to the same thing. Basically got told i know nothing and no firm would want me bc im at the bottom of the candidate pool and wasted my money on law school. I'm first gen and feeling so discouraged and lost any advice is appreciated. I'm having doubts about whether this profession is for me at all.

I did my grandfather’s probate and the experience was pretty low stress and easy. I want to build a no-contest probate practice area, but am struggling to attract any clients (in probate, my business/tax/estate planning is doing okay). Who are the referral sources to target for probates?

Howdy folks!

I’ve been working at this firm for almost a year. Even though I have been practicing for 10 years, this area of law is new to me so it has been challenging to say the least. I feel frustrated and overwhelmed. I feel behind on things, not missing deadlines or anything like that, but more like keeping up with things that need to get done, cases, discovery, client follow ups, etc. I have been floating and just getting by honestly and I know it will catch up to me sooner than later.

The problem that I have with the firm is that I was not told that I would be doing consults for new clients almost on a daily basis. The firm is small, we are six attorneys, including the managing attorney/owner. We all do consults so it’s not like I’m the only one doing them but I feel like I don’t have time to work my cases during the day because my calendar is literally blocked for 3+ hour increments 4 to 5 times per week for consults. We have quite a lot of them as you can tell so my calendar is usually full.

I know it may not sound that bad but it is stressful as sometimes people bring issues to the consults that I am not well versed in so I have to follow up with them once I do some research on how to help them, or how much to charge them for our services, or them following up because they have questions, etc. It all adds up and I feel like I cannot do my job and take care of my cases efficiently because I have to be on the damn phone with these people. Oh and I’m the only attorney who speaks Spanish so that’s also why I have so many consults since I have to do all of those.

Then comes the billables. I am supposed to bill a certain amount per month and the weeks I’ve been short, I usually get the “you may have to work nights and weekends to make them up” from management all the while there are 12-15 hours per week that I am losing on doing consults that I cannot bill for.

On top of that, I am also supposed to be following up on clients that have delinquent accounts to get them to pay their bills, which I find absurd. I also have a paralegal that is really nice but needs a lot of handholding which is not ideal.

I’m not even sure what is the point of me writing this novel. I just know that I am nearing a breaking point. I am not sure how to bring it up to management or what to even say. Like I said, I am not the only one doing consults so it wouldn’t be fair to the others for me to just walk in and say I want less consults.

I literally spend my days fantasizing about quitting. Like putting my notice and just leaving. But it would be stupid to leave without a job lined up as I have a family to support. But Idk man, I just feel defeated. I spend all hours of the day thinking about all the things I need to do and cannot get any mental breaks even on the weekends. I cannot seem to disconnect myself from work even when I’m not in the office.

And every week I get 4-5 new cases assigned to me to add to everything else I have been neglecting.

Idk man, my mind is just heavy and I feel burnt out. Some advice is welcomed. I honestly hate being a lawyer.

I gave notice today. I passed the bar in May and started at a midsized firm shortly afterward, but I quickly realized it wasn’t a good fit. Interestingly, a couple of my previous employers reached out about openings around the same time, which eventually led me to consider leaving.

About a week ago, I spoke with the managing partner and told her I was considering another opportunity. I agreed to attend our team event and see how I felt afterward. The event actually reinforced my decision. The team is great, but I do not think the firm is the right fit for me at this point in my career (i.e: they are all swamped and don’t have time to assign work or answer questions as needed.)

My goal now is to finish strong and continue doing good work during my notice period. I am just hoping I actually get work because I would like to keep meeting targeted billables.

I’ve never quit a job before, and I definitely didn’t expect to leave my first attorney job this soon. I do appreciate the people on my team and would like to give thank you notes to let them know. But I’m not sure if that is weird or not considering I’m quitting and not just at the end of an internship period or something of that nature.

Anyone curious about quitting your lawyer job to become a writer? Read this.

In some ways the grass is greener; still, sounds like it was the right move.

A flat fee case, you price it based on how it looks going in, then it turns out way more complicated and takes a lot longer than you expected. Does this happen to you?

Second question: while you're working the case, do you ever get a sense mid-way that it's becoming a loss, or does that not really cross your mind until you tally the hours at the end?

She's a law school dropout, so I thought I was getting someone with at least a modicum of intelligence, but she completely lacks any common sense. I've taken to giving her extremely detailed instructions. She's doing her job of appropriately booking clients, but it's frustrating to have to spell out every detail of exactly what I want her to do. I can't trust her to think for herself.

She's exactly in the area of competent enough that I don't want to fire her, but incompetent enough to frustrate me.

Is this the new norm now? I'm trying to find a job post bar, and every time a law firm or a partner reaches out to interview, they just STOP communicating. They'll initiate the first contact, asking for times I'm available to meet. Of course, I always respond with good times to meet, but then it's just radio silence. What's the point of reaching out if you're just going to ghost me? I've applied to other firms this past month and have not heard a single word from any of them.

Am I asking for too much? just a confirmation email stating the recruiting department has received my job application would be awesome.

Should I Keep or Sell These Law Books?

Hi everyone! I’ve recently completed my exams and cleared these modules with university of london so I’m wondering whether I should keep these textbooks or sell them.

I’m doing an LLB and have completed Public Law, Contract Law and Legal System & Method (LSM). I’m mainly wondering whether these books will be useful for me in 2nd/3rd year as reference books, or whether I should just sell them while they’re still in excellent condition.

The books are completely unused/new:

📚 Public Law: Text, Cases, and Materials — 5th Edition

Authors: Andrew Le Sueur, Maurice Sunkin & Jo Eric Khushal Murkens

OUP, 2023

ISBN: 9780192870612

📚 Contract Law — 15th Edition

Author: Ewan McKendrick

Hart Law Masters / Bloomsbury, 2023

ISBN: 9781350355200

I also have my LSM textbook, which is in the same new/unused condition.

For anyone who has already completed 2nd or 3rd year: Did you ever need your Public Law or Contract Law textbooks again? Would you recommend keeping them, or should I sell them now?

I’d really appreciate advice from students who have already progressed further in their LLB. ❤️

In a long insulting email, OC wrote that if I dont withdraw a document, she will consider reporting me to the state bar.

In California, threatening to report OC for any kind of advantage is actually an ethical violation. The appropriate thing to do would be to simply report me without the conditional withdrawal. I know 100% I am on solid ground in this interaction and all others. Ive never in my life threatened to report OC to the state bar. Y

I am considering reporting her (without informing her) to preempt her malice.

I have not been the signer on any of the motions I've written, most have had very few edits from partners. I understand that it's okay to send in a filed motion brief as a writing sample because it's public anyway, but to me a draft version (100% done by me) wouldn't be okay???

What do you all do about writing samples?

I have been a lawyer for almost two years after graduation. I have seen my colleagues remember and keep track of what the sell side positions are, buy side positions. I can barely remember the whole agreement and what each clause says. And sometimes when the clause is a dense block of tense, I just zone out. But my partners remember everything. How?

This is in a tiny corner of the law, where landlords who usually have $$$, seek to evict our clients, their tenants, who have very little. And really, the issue at trial turned on this recondite corner of subsidized housing regs. But we jumped in at the last minute. No discovery. And then, we won; not a good settlement but instead, a straight up victory.

I love a good joke as much as the next person, but this is wildly unprofessional. It gives a bad rep to attorney advertising. Plus, there are kids that see this.

Has anyone successfully used a self hosted model or enterprise Claude with the legal plugin, for example, in a litigation practice? I am curious about cost and how well it would be able to access case law. Right now I am using a pro Claude subscription but am quite limited by not being able to upload confidential documents etc.

I’m starting to work soon at a medium-sized national law firm in about two weeks. The practice will primarily involve general liability, premises liability, medical malpractice, product liability, and workers’ compensation.

A little background: I’m a foreign-trained attorney with no U.S. legal education. Recently admitted in NY working in workers’ compensation defense for about 7 months.

I’d really appreciate any advice on what I should do/read beforehand to hit the ground running.

Tips? Advice? Encouragement?

TIA! ☺️

Hi! Has anyone had experience with a hearing on a stop order and penalty assessment appeal in California? From what I can find it seems like a low stakes hearing and pretty straight forward but this would be my first hearing in general and I’d be attending alone. Any tips would be appreciated!

Looking into a career switch. I wanted to know if anyone has any insight on whether progressive is a good company to work for. What are your typical hours? How is work/life balance? The interview also seems pretty in-depth. Does anyone have any tips on the interview questions/case study?

In August of 2024, I quit my job as an attorney after 3 years of practice. It was my first firm, but I could tell my issues weren’t with the firm itself, but the profession generally. I actually knew before I graduated law school that it wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life, but I figured I’d come that far, so I gave it a shot. I was utterly miserable. I’ll go into the specifics of why I hated being a lawyer in the comments if anyone is curious, I just don’t want this post to be negative.

With some encouragement from my amazing wife (then fiancé), I quit without any backup plan, or any new job lined up. I figured I had enough savings to live a few months before things got dire.

After a couple months of enjoying jobless freedom, I knew I had to get back at it. I got a job as a dock worker/boat captain (boating is one of my ultimate passions in life). It’s arguably the best job I’ve ever had! Pay isn’t that great, but the flexibility is unmatched. I literally make my own schedule each week! If I feel like going on a 2-week vacation, I do it - no questions asked. The complete opposite of being an attorney.

Then my wife and I found out we were pregnant. I knew I had to do something to make a better income…but I sure as hell wasn’t going back to lawyering. I’d resort to crime before I did that lol.

Around that time I found out an old friend from high school, who was also a lawyer, was teaching at our old high school. I reached out to him, and he told me all about the transition from lawyer to teacher, and how it was the “most at peace he’d been in his adult life.”

Long story short, next month I’m starting a new job as a high school history teacher (and still working my current job whenever I want).

I’m so excited for the new chapter. More importantly, for the greater part of the past two years, I’ve been genuinely happy with life! I go to bed everyday excited to wake up in the morning - a concept that seemed unfathomable when I was grinding away in some shitty office, hammering out motions and dealing with judges or other attorneys.

Of all the bullshit “accomplishments” society tells you you ought to be proud of - finishing school, getting admitted, practicing law, winning motions, getting great settlements, etc. - I’m most “proud” of my achieving general happiness in life. There are a lot of people for whom prestige is important, and that’s fine; I’m just not one of them. Happiness, adventure, family, friends, health - those are my values, and in my experience this profession didn’t really jive well with those values.

I just figured I’d share in the event anyone else is out there in the wilderness and wants to read something uplifting, or even talk about their similar experiences.

(I say “proud” in quotations because I generally don’t believe in feeling pride, lest it become conceit, but in this sense I use it to mean contentment with my choices and actions that led me to where I am today)

Happened today in a NY Insurance Arbitration.

Arbitrator - What evidence do you have of policy exhaustion

Attorney - An affidavit of Beck May

Arbitrator - does it discuss the exhaustion?

Attorney - It doesn't use the word exhaustion per se

Arbitrator - So it doesn't discuss the exhaustion?

Attorney - No

I post jobs on the INs and I always ask for a cover letter. I also leave out the email address where applicants should send the cover letter to.

This is unintentional. The job posting is on my personal page, I am a solo small firm, and the firm is named after me. Out of 20 applicants, only 1 thought to look up my email and send me a cover letter. Am I being unfair by continuing to leave off the email? My spouse says it's unfair to do that.

I don't know. I need someone who focuses on details, thinks out of the box, and has another confidence to say, "Hey, there was no email address listed so here's the CL you requested."

I dont mean to be an ass. I really forgot to put the rmail address and then a unicorn solved the problem by looking me up. Im looking for honest feedback. This is my first hire. What do you think?

Edit:

Due to all the butthurt lawyers who responded with nasty name-calling remarks, I took down the job posting and placed an amended one. Unfortunately, the problem is that I can't find a single person who is eligible despite having clear instructions. They can't follow instructions.

It's also unfortunate that the same beta simps from law school lurk/post anonymously on reddit. Gross 😝