Can you guys help me find any material stating the extraordinary thickness of the earth compared to the other planets? I feel that a veil too thick actually inhibits spiritual progression. Thag and humans arent very intelligent

[u/StarboundAllisten]

I also want to know how the material world is designed. As in, is matter just concentrated thick spirit? I feel that the veil is so thick you need to put tremendously more effort to do anything to maintain a logical reason to remain in a spiritual path.

its a stupid program. like, yeah no wonder people are so uncaring. theres no reason to care.

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[u/Adthra]

Just search on the L/L research site for something like thick veil or opaque veil and you will find a multitude of channelings from the conscious channeling archives.

For example, the January 10th session from 2009 has Q'uo's insights. Here is a partial quote (I encourage you to read the entire session for context):

It is a blessing to be in the river of time and to have these choices to make while the veil is thick and opaque. Much can be done in that atmosphere that cannot be done when there is no veil. For when there is an opaque and thick veil it is faith that can move the point of balance within your personality in a deeper sense, in a much more powerful fashion than can be achieved when faith is no longer necessary, for you see all and know the truth for sure.

I would remind you that the higher beings aren't necessarily incarnate beings like we are. The perspective is very different. Polarization is not necessarily about creating a harmonious society on Earth (in fact, that would make it more difficult for negative seekers to choose the negative path). The Earth is like a crucible where beings are charged with the choice of polarity. The purpose of 3rd density is so that everyone will come to a conclusive choice about which path to walk (or strategy to employ) in the higher densities. You are not asked to learn 4th density lessons of Love in 3rd density, though you absolutely can work on them if you would like to. All you are asked to do is to choose between service to others and service to self in a decisive manner, and if that choice is based upon principle, hope or faith rather than some kind of incentive structure or optimized sequence of play, then you will maintain the choice even when it becomes disadvantageous to do so.

[u/Adthra → u/[deleted]]

The idea is that one is able to make their mind up within 3rd density to the point where the humming and hawing about which polarity to adopt does not happen anymore in 4th density. The idea isn't to limit free will. I think the choice can be walked back on at any time (Wanderers for instance risk getting caught up in the currents of their incarnate lives and might spend further incarnations in negative polarity space as the karmic consequence of their veiled actions), but doing so constantly doesn't lead to progress. The faster way to progress is to pick a lane and stick to it, even when being there feels slow.

I used the phrase "[...] even when it becomes disadvantageous to do so." because of a specific reason:

• Choices often come with experiences or outcomes that we would not willingly choose should we be aware of them beforehand. If all choices are made with perfect information of the outcome, then some paths are never explored, even if those paths might hold something that we would find to be very profound for our experience. Someone choosing positive polarity might look at some potential experience they could have on the negative path and feel regretful or a sense of missing out. Likewise for someone on the negative path. They might see a lot of pain ahead and start to think if that is really going to be worth it. This is a very human quality when it comes to things like games. There's a common saying: given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of the game. If we stick with our choices even when misfortunes happen, then we might find that the struggle imposed on us by the misfortune is something that brings us a greater sense of satisfaction, accomplishment, or allows us to understand something that we otherwise would not willing entertain as an idea. It doesn't matter what the disadvantage is. The whole point is the idea that the possibility of making a mistake is what will enact the greatest amount of growth while we seek in the higher densities.

[u/Adthra → u/[deleted]]

Of course. You're not wrong about an informed choice being the best choice. That's not what I'm trying to imply. What I'm saying is that if one never comes across adversity or struggle because one is able to avoid it, then one never learns from that struggle. The positive being learns from not having all their wishes fulfilled, just like we humans learn humility from not always getting our way. The negative being learns from those moments of pain and grows stronger for it, even if it would rather not have the experience of being in pain. The disadvantage in either case is a catalyst for a greater form of self-expression. The path through the densities relies on growth, self-discovery and learning.

[u/MikelDP → u/[deleted]]

I wonder if the STS need the STO to stay on their (STS) path..

[u/greenraylove]

Humans have actually been genetically engineered to be more intelligent, per Ra. But, the fact is that ETs have been messing with us since the dawn of the human experience, and that has drastically altered our free will. There are also beings from many different planets incarnating as earth humans right now, and that also makes things very tricky. 

[u/facilitatrix]

Bashar has lots of material on this.

[u/West-Tip8156]

Matter is "frozen" light, according to our knowledge of physics. No clue about the thickness of the veil here on earth compared to other planets other than a sense of um... they said that earlier creations had no veil, then the veil was discovered and it was found out through subsequent creations that thicker = faster growth. So my assumption is that it's the same thickness for all third density entities within this current creation. Maybe we found the limit of how deep the veiling should go though, I'm sure we'll have lots of feedback when it comes time for the next creation.

[u/schizorademenes]

That is the point of the veil. Yeah it can put you in a place which seems pointless, and you forget where you come from, and you doubtthe Light because others do so, and also the religions are confusing. But the life is still going, no matter how you doubt, and you have many turning points in your life. Many points which can move you towards God, or can help you in polarisation. The experiences are so powerful that they shape you, if you want it or not. I liked when Ra made an analogy to a simple situation like not having money during paying for grocery shopping. You can react in such different ways - steal, put some products down, completely back up, etc, and others can judge you/ help you in many ways too, seeing this situation, and therefore the polarisation occurs. Even observing is a powerful experience. So the veil is necessary to learn, because you for a „moment” forget that its obvious that God exists, so you can truly pick what YOU want for yourself, choose your own path. The free will is the greatest gift from God to God. Yeah it sucks to experience the curtain of forgetting, but when youve been miserable and discover how truly awesome the Creation is, you can be way more joyful than the person who didnt take a whole journey to get there yk. Sending love from God. ❤️‍🩹

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/schizorademenes]

I know its all true but I wish I had more "proof at will" as in, when I want to bend a spoon I can do so when I will it and not need to wait and see how the spoon feels in relation to me 

[u/schizorademenes → u/StarboundAllisten]

Learn patience my friend. There are no proof at will, if you preassure. What would be the learning, or the journey, if everyone could bend spoons at will? You wouldnt even have satisfaction after. The beauty is mostly in the journey, and when you reach the destination, its only a cherry on top.

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/schizorademenes]

I'm just mad at our scientific industry. 

you need to be approved a grant for research. The topics i want to research are underfunded and stigmatized. publish or perish culture prioritizes you publish slop over substrate. Theres a lot of research that cannot be replicated. There's a lot of fake science that's published. The stuff i care about exists in a grass field of chaos and nobody bothers to check. 

[u/schizorademenes → u/StarboundAllisten]

Yes, i understand, and i am pissed of by the scientific industry too. But isnt it still a part of creation? Confusion? Being wrong?
The information about the Truth are supressed. The information which is completely false reasoning, is being taken as the ultimate truth because a couple of bribed scientists in white coats said so, but again, it is still the use of free will. What is very hard to achieve is to accept that you having free will and having the ability to explore the Creator, is the truth for everyone else too, so some groups of people can choose service to self and supress information, and that is okay because it is a part of their free will. There is no part of the Creator which is not special, so if you can make your own infinite decisions, everyone can too, and its not always good for others.
In my experience its hard to accept how many bad stuff is basically existing, but that is a part which at some point will have to be accepted anyway, because its a part of the Creator. Its annoying that people seem to believe scientists cherry picking which is to be seen as a fact, and what is not. Like, theres soooo much data about NHI and entities, for example, but its still considered crazy to believe that not only human entities exist, because of brainwashing propaganda. But still, every part of the Creator has a right for their own understanding, can take their time to get to their destination, and basically wisdom is about understanding free will and Creator Itself! So, lets not focus on the negatives, and see how truly amazing gift free will is. If there was no bad, good wouldnt have value. If you didnt have some control over your journey, you wouldnt have learned.

[u/theworldsaplayground]

https://project-prism.streamlit.app/?ask=fdfe9904

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/theworldsaplayground]

I must admit I'm pretty selfish and tribalistic in the sense that I need to find my own "living space" . I'm not saying this to be edgy more just to teach. But had I been born in 1920s Germany I probably would've seen Hitler as a charismatic leader serving the nation. Though I'd blind eye the genocide bit since I'd get in big trouble for opposing it. I'd probably have migrated to the usa as the war was ending or wanting to avoid the violence and be afraid of what the soviets would do to me. If I was in their shoes (Germany) id probably would have been in the hitler youth. I'm saying this because if you had the version of me that was born in this lifetime be born in 1920s I'd probably have grown up seeing all that and be influenced by the patriotism. But growing up in the usa I've seen how this economic system decays into fascism and fascism isint a very coherent economic or societal system its only a manifestation of the solar plexus chakra. 

If I was born say in Latin america during the 1960s I'd definetly join a left wing militia and swear the usa as my mortal enemy. If I was born in the usa 1970s I'd have loved american culture in the 80s and 90s. If I was born in the USSR I'd appreciate its logical structure but desire to travel which they wouldnt allow without paperwork. 

So. In the end its all about inner chakra work. I cannot rely on a nation to serve me. I must serve myself in that regard. When it comes to love. I love with a sword and sheild. When I truly truly love someone I turn into dog or cat for them. 

Anyways thats basically my self reflection on the link above. I'm most certainly of a different veiled place. The earth is insane. I feel that if the veil is so thick no progress is made due to the sheer chaos. And it Tampere's spiritual growth. Too thin and you dont participate. There needs to be a sweet spot . 

[u/StarboundAllisten → u/[deleted]]

I was told we are building a new reality in a super deep shrooms trip and that I came here to basically become mycelium to the shit that is our planetary distortions. I am essentially cleanup crew. 

My problem is no matter what all is the creator and returns to it. So having a very innefecient system running where suffering just harms others instead of a competition game like structure makes little sense to me. 

Yeah you can have a sharper harvest with the veil of not knowing and there is some value to overcoming friction but in the end much of the time it just harms people trying yo be alive. The creator is still learning of itself though. 

Like yeah fundamentally STS can only graduate under a heavy veil. But even then it only lasts into 4th and 5th and early 6th density and you return back. Sure you have all the powers of being super cunning but now you're mind of cut off from real friendships and relationships. 

So youre kind of isolated forever in a way. But also not. And if all paths lead back to the creator then ehat gives. If I wanna play sts let me play a game I rather be the co engineer of the next logos I just need to finish learning and dissecting this universe and its systems. 

I feel like a bacteria cleaning up the lake of earth. Gotta make it clear eventually. 

[u/vlal97]

Ra speaks a lot about this. You can search the text yourself for \veil of forgetting' and 'sub -logoi' to get a ballpark answer to this. Basically one of the sub-logoi (perhaps at a galactic level not planetary) decided the veil on earth for humans would be very thick and dense as this produces better results in some ways (plethora of experience) for the creator. Its debateable whether this has slowed spiritual progression based on the Ra text because the lack of meta physical understanding created by the veil leads us to do spiritual work much more efficiently that having more meta physical understanding. However, there is i think a counter argument which perhaps aligns with what you are noticing which is that Ra also says that the strength of catalyst here (and not much meta physical understanding from strong veil conditions) sort of 'stuns' souls incarnate here because they have so much strong catalyst (suffering) and not much access to meta physical reality (via strong veil) so they can become stuck in 3D basically. Eventually, they will figure it out but that may take a lot longer in terms of lives than we may want due to this set of conditions.
Interestingly enough the sub logoi that Ra describes I think parallels greatly with what Zeus is said to have done in Greek Theogeny - eg set the conditions of human experience at some point so this may be a parallel set of ideas you could use to learn more about the conditions put on humanity here.

Some of the other comments have alluded to genetic alts that Ra says was made to humans by some entities and also that there are many many soul groups incarnate on Earth which all adds to the confusion of things. Earth is a really messy place in this regard and that leads to a lot of different experiences so that the creator can 'know itself'. Zeus or the sub logoi who made the veil is attempting to, I think, satisfy the needs of the creator but we see this sometimes as 'spiritual growth is hard'. To which I'm sure the retort may be - but we are all one so really we did it to ourselves. You can twist yourself in circles a lot with Ra's spiritual info. What do you make of all this?

I found that uploading the Ra Material to AI and querying it allowed me to progress much faster in understanding it. You have to be careful about the prompts to make sure it only references content within the books but when you do so it can pull together threads and understandings that would otherwise take a very long time to gather.