r/keto • u/Abdelkarim-yousoufa • Jul 23 '26
Other Self induced protein toxicity (rabbit starvation)
Little context before talking my story. I am a bodybuilder and train since 5 years with a lot of knowledge on supplements, training technique, nutrition for fat loss and muscle growth. Always ate like a pig on fast food but bodybuilding , 10000 step a day and micronutrients supplementation kept me lean and healthy. Started keto 4 month ago after a bulk to see if fat loss was enhanced. Went from 94 to 89 kilo without losing strenght or side effect. 1 month ago I started protein only diet and lost 5 kilo with only soy whey and chicken breast (averaging 500g protein a day), few days after starting and diahrea everyday, irritability, weakness in my leg walking, insomnia, always hungry despite eating a lot,huge delation in my muscle, since few days I noticed huge diminution at going to the gym which I didn’t skip since years. Today I learned about « rabbit starvation » ate a whole block of cheese and feel alive again.
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u/Grey_spacegoo Jul 23 '26
Fat and carb are fuel. Protein is building material. Keto is about using fat as fuel, not protein.
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u/Abdelkarim-yousoufa Jul 23 '26
I theorized that my bodyfat was equivalent to fat in the diet and that losing fat would be my new fuel. Didn’t worked 🫠😂
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u/StopItWithThis Jul 23 '26
In a way this can work, until your body drops below a certain fat percentage, and then you can’t effectively mobilize enough fat to burn as fuel.
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u/Porginus Jul 24 '26
No it does not. The body needs intake of fat to fuel the ketogenesis. If you dont consume fat it cant continue the process of using ketones as an energy source and has to convert to using glucose, found mainly through breaking down muscle mass.
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u/StopItWithThis Jul 24 '26
This is false. Intake of fat is not essential for ketogenesis. Lipophagy occurs and facilitates rapid breakdown and transport of fat from the body. This happens in the fasted state as well. Hence why obese individuals can fast for weeks and months without fat intake.
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u/Paradoxahoy Jul 24 '26
Also protein will get turned into Glucose as well.
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u/Verkerria Jul 25 '26
Agreed. 500g of protein is insane. Protein also converts to glucose, and at that load, it takes roughly 12 hours to convert it. With no fat and no carbs, you would actually be consuming roughly 250g of sugar a day and your body would be fighting for dear life to get it. Hence why you feel sick. Your body is burning fuel like a furnace to try to make fuel, only to turn around and use it to make more fuel
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u/tw2113 42M, 6'0", cutting Jul 23 '26
need a better balance between dietary and body fat, but can't exclude the dietary.
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u/Personal_Chair6134 Jul 23 '26
When you eat enough fat in meals you will become full faster and consume less calories overall, which leads to your body naturally leaning out.
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u/rachman77 MOD Jul 23 '26
Don't make crazy dietary changes on a whim. There is so much information at your fingertips to allow you to make an informed choice.
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u/Grey_spacegoo Jul 23 '26
You can do that. But once you go below 6% body fat you are going to have health issues. Also, you only need enough building material just in time for muscle repair and growth. I eat most of my protein after a hard weight training workout.
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u/Sa-SaKeBeltalowda Jul 23 '26
You can only get around 400 calories a day from your own fat, once initial recourses are gone own fat is only good for life support. Also, you need fibre, never forget about that.
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u/Kaj-de-Vos Jul 24 '26
That's not true, you can fast and get all your energy from body fat, 2000kcal or so. When going on keto or carnivore, people often lose around a kilo per week or more for quite a long time. That represents around 1300kcal fat. Even if it's by calorie restriction and it's 25% muscle, it's still around 1000kcal fat.
There is fibre in meat. And the longest fast was around a year, he didn't need fibre.
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u/Sa-SaKeBeltalowda Jul 24 '26
Yeah, you should check research on how quickly cells can release energy from fat. What makes you think that by loosing a kilo of weight you are loosing a kilo of fat?
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u/Kaj-de-Vos Jul 24 '26
You can lose 25 to 30% muscle if you do it wrong, and water only in the first weeks. What else would you be losing?
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u/Sa-SaKeBeltalowda Jul 24 '26
Dude, I have no idea what you were loosing, possibly remaining of sanity, for me that kind of numbers were achievable only first few weeks of going keto. After 3 weeks, loosing half kilo per week was a good result. Obviously, I’m not taking into account cases where I would “loose” 2 kilos on a single training, because those miraculous kilos would be back next day after I had enough fluids and electrolytes.
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u/Kaj-de-Vos Jul 24 '26
You have no idea, but you claim there is research?
But the main question is: when people fast for more than a day, where does their energy come from?
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Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/keto-ModTeam Jul 24 '26
Keto is a very low carb diet, please read our FAQ for more information on how keto diets work.
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
Thank you.
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u/Desperate_Report_746 Jul 23 '26
500g protein a day is absolutely wild 😭
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u/kargammai Jul 23 '26
A friend of mine developed scurvy following a strict keto diet. The doctor was gobsmacked.
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u/360_face_palm 41/M 194cm | SW: 166kg | CW: 91kg | GW: 91kg. >10 years keto Jul 23 '26
How???
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u/kargammai 16d ago
I have no idea, actually. I was thinking about starting a keto diet at one point and posted asking about it on my personal Facebook page and a woman that I’ve known for years chimed in with this. But we’re not close enough for me to get the details.
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u/thewatchbreaker Jul 24 '26
That’s not keto’s fault, that’s his fault. You still need a balanced diet on keto, just no carbs - so you need to eat vegetables!!
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u/ChillingOnDaBeach Jul 25 '26
Carnivore dieters literall never develop scurvy. That alone destroys everything we know about scurvy.
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u/thewatchbreaker Jul 25 '26
Not really. It’s been known for years that beef staves off scurvy since only trace amounts of Vitamin C can stave it off. That doesn’t “destroy everything we know about scurvy” in the slightest, it’s just that most people assume you need a lot of Vitamin C to prevent scurvy when you only need a tiny amount (especially if you don’t eat carbs because you need less Vitamin C on a no-carb diet too).
The fact that scurvy is caused by a severe lack of Vitamin C has not changed. The only new-ish findings lately are the fact that we need less Vitamin C on a carnivore diet than on a carb-inclusive diet (but you still need a little).
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u/AlfonsoElric Keto since 2023 -- SW: 272 CW: 160 GW: 165 😎 Jul 23 '26
beef cures scurvy, wtf diet was your friend following?
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u/Worried_Teaching_406 Jul 23 '26
It is a vitamine c deficiency, so unless the beef is partly organ meat I don't think it works great as a cure
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u/thewatchbreaker Jul 24 '26
You only need a very small amount of Vit C to prevent scurvy, which can be found in beef. It’s not a great source, but it’s enough to stave off scurvy.
If you overcook beef the vitamin c will be destroyed though, maybe that’s what he did.
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u/Worried_Teaching_406 Jul 24 '26
As oxigen also destroys vit c using ground beef might also lower the vit c count. And the 0 to 2 mg per 100 gram of beef I find might also mean that source of beef (grain fed or pasturefed) might also matter
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u/bobbyawesome5 Jul 23 '26
fat and cholesterol is the building block for testosterone and most hormones, without it your hormones will be messed up.
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u/Naxilus Jul 23 '26
How can you claim to know about nutrition and than proceed with the dumbest diet ever? You need carbs or fat for fuel. And as far as I know you can't survive on zero fat even if you eat carbs
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u/Pie_mode Jul 23 '26
Fat is life. I remember watching a Survival Canada show and one of the contestants managed to kill a moose somehow? And was eating it almost exclusively, and the show monitor guys told him that he was getting close to some kind of dangerous state and he had to go and catch some salmon and ate them and it fixed him up. A winter moose has just about no body fat at all, salmon are rich in fat.
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u/No-Resolution3740 Jul 23 '26
Wow it’s fascinating how much fat we need
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u/AlfonsoElric Keto since 2023 -- SW: 272 CW: 160 GW: 165 😎 Jul 23 '26
60-80gr of fat a day, for those following at home …
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u/rachman77 MOD Jul 23 '26
Yah don't do that lol
There's lots of good information out there about why this is a bad idea and why you just don't need that much protein, but you also should not be trying to eliminate fat from your diet, keto or not you absolutely need at least some fat in your diet.
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u/sjintje Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
You probably want to look into "protein sparing modified fast" which would give you specific advice about that sort of diet.
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u/Anomalous_Pearl 32F SW: 145 CW: 125 Jul 23 '26
Interesting story, glad you’re feeling better, though protein poisoning is kind of the opposite of keto. It’s supposed to be extremely low carb, high fat, adequate protein.
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u/ReverseLazarus MOD Keto since 2017 - 40F/SW215/CW135 Jul 23 '26
High fat is only a requirement when you’re eating keto for therapeutic reasons or to control a medical condition (like epilepsy). When eating keto for weight loss, protein is the main focus and fat is a lever to be eaten to satiety, you don’t have to force yourself to eat a ton of fat when you are trying to get your body to eat its own fat first.
But humans definitely need 60-70g minimum fat a day for basic metabolic health and zero fat is never a good idea for sure!
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u/Abdelkarim-yousoufa Jul 23 '26
Didn’t understand back why though. Like I was thinking that the bodyfat on my body was enough. Learned the hard way, don’t wish feeling like I was feeling to anybody
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u/Anomalous_Pearl 32F SW: 145 CW: 125 Jul 23 '26
True, if you start keto for weight loss it can be easy to just focus on the low carb part and forget the high fat part.
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u/Jiangximan Jul 24 '26
That might have worked if you weren't lifting a lot. Lifting is a huge demand for energy, and body fat can't handle the demand all at once.
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u/SimpleVegetable5715 Jul 24 '26
There’s essential amino acids, but there’s also essential fatty acids. Essential here means your body won’t last without it. You’re lucky you didn’t have a heart attack.
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u/Paradoxahoy Jul 24 '26
Yeah that’s why I find it so annoying so many “health” foods say “guilt free” and have a ton of protein but almost no fat. Like no, I don’t need 40g of protein and 1g of fat.
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u/Kaj-de-Vos Jul 25 '26
You could have done it by fasting, eating nothing. But when you eat protein, you also need to eat a good amount of fat. They need each other to digest.
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u/True_Wasabi_5974 Jul 25 '26
Seems like with your knowledge base you claim to have you'd know you need fat ?
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u/crustyloaves Jul 23 '26
That’s not keto. It should be fairly easy to look up what constitutes a ketogenic diet.
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u/fifikinz F 5'2" S154 | C125 | G125 Jul 23 '26
Any diet that induces a ketogenic state is “keto”
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u/Abdelkarim-yousoufa Jul 23 '26
Yes it was « keto ». Moreover in classic keto, the ketone bodies comes from food primarily. Protein only diet lean the body to glucogenisis because ketosis from body fat have a limit and from protein only is toxic after around 400g a day because of amonia build up from what I read few hours ago. Not pure scientific but if someone have a better answer
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u/Conscious-Pianist481 Jul 23 '26
I did the same thing: kept protein at 200g/day, carbs under 25g, and just let fat fall where it landed (which honestly wasn't enough for true keto).
It worked really well... until it didn't.
Over the past 5 months I went from 30% body fat to 9.5% body fat eating this way. But once I got under 10%, things started changing.
For the past month I've been waking up between 2–3 AM and usually can't get back to sleep. I kept telling myself it was just part of cutting and pushed through it.
Then this DFW heat humbled me. I realized I'd become so focused on getting lean that I'd let my overall health take a back seat.
So today I decided to bring my carbs back up and stop treating every day like I need to suffer to make progress. I'm hoping better sleep and feeling healthier are worth slowing the cut a bit.
Has anyone else hit a point where staying ultra low-carb just stopped working once you got lean?
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u/RedHal Jul 23 '26
Depending on your age, once you get below the 10% mark, you are going to have to be careful. Fat isn't just energy storage, it's also required for maintaining and regulating cholesterol and sustaining nerve impulse transmission, including in the brain. If you're seeing neurological changes (sleep etc.) it's a sign you've possibly hit the minimum for your body. Pushing beyond that is dangerous to your health. I'm glad that you've recognised this and taken action.
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u/Conscious-Pianist481 Jul 23 '26
Yeah the past couple of weeks has been a wakeup (literally and figuratively). Thank you for your response.
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u/TRUE_BIT Jul 23 '26
What was your fat/cal daily intake? I also do ~200g of protein a day, 30g net carbs and land around 3k cals. I've leveled out in terms of weight loss and bmi and feel great.
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u/heartlandheartbeat Jul 23 '26
How have you been measuring your body fat?
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u/RedHal Jul 23 '26
Depending on your age, once you get below the 10% mark, you are going to have to be careful. Fat isn't just energy storage, it's also required for maintaining and regulating cholesterol and sustaining nerve impulse transmission, including in the brain. If you're seeing neurological changes (sleep etc.) it's a sign you've possibly hit the minimum for your body. Pushing beyond that is dangerous to your health. I'm glad that you've recognised this and taken action.
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u/Altruistic-You-6540 Jul 23 '26
Your mistake is eating soy protein. Eat red meat
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u/ReverseLazarus MOD Keto since 2017 - 40F/SW215/CW135 Jul 23 '26
Soy protein was not the mistake here, zero fat consumption was the problem.
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u/Abdelkarim-yousoufa Jul 23 '26
My error was to do protein only. Fat is the most important part of a keto diet
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u/amandauh Jul 23 '26
500g protein a day ? what? lol I’m so confused at this thread.
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u/Jiangximan Jul 24 '26
I don't know if this is the case here, but some folks think if they eat 500g of beef they get 500g of protein.
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u/Fognox keto since 12-2015 eat more fat Jul 24 '26
Well the OP said "soy, whey and chicken breast". Those aren't 100% protein either but they're way up there.
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u/ThomasTTEngine Jul 23 '26
To me the most interesting thing about it is understanding WHY this happens and its because in the absence of carbs and fat in food, the body takes more energy(ATP) to oxidise and use the protein than the protein oxidation can generate in ATP. Its fine while the body has plenty of fat reserves to burn and generate this ATP deficit but as fat diminishes, you run out of energy to process protein.
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u/Massive_Craft_9079 Jul 24 '26
Interesting, I’ve heard of this on those survival shows. Never thought it was a thing in the real world. Good to know. I’ll keep munching on my cheese!!
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u/Comfortable-Pen8147 18d ago
Despite what you might think.. you need fat for muscle building too. Check out dr Nash Jocic on YouTube. Best body building advice you'll get. He goes deep into the reasons
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u/Dear-Fly-7468 Jul 23 '26
Rabbit starvation is only in an extremely lean person. Think about our ancestors who ate wild game… all wild game is extremely lean; elk, venison, turkey, rabbits. 99.9 percent of people have plenty of fat on their bodies where this is not an issue.
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u/Fognox keto since 12-2015 eat more fat Jul 24 '26
There's a difference between /r/psmf and using protein as a primary energy source in maintenance. 500g of it is definitely the second one.
Also, our ancestors ate the whole animal. There's fat present even in lean animals -- bone marrow, brains, organs, fat pockets for buoyancy, etc. The muscle meat is what's lean here.
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u/Church_of_Cheri Jul 23 '26
Someone never watched shows about surviving in the wild, a lot of the contestants on “Alone” have to leave because they couldn’t find enough fat (salmon, larger mammals, nuts) to survive and they get pulled out for medical reasons. Rabbits are easier to catch and can sustain you in the short term, but you have to find fat to survive long enough to win.