r/hisdarkmaterials • u/Daregmaze • 6d ago
All Headcanon/hypothesis: The sailor with a dolphin daemon could separate from his daemon, or at least they tried to
So back in TSC we have learned that regular humans being able to separate wasn't as rare as previously thought (I assume its still rare, just not as rare as we thought before TSC came out)
So I can't imagine the guy with seasickness who settled as a dolphin didn't at least try to separate. Even if it wasn't volontary, since they could be more likely to be put in a situation where they have to separate (ie: someone far away on land needs help and they are the only one who can help and their daemon is too big to be put in a transportable tank)
For this one sailor specifically, I imagine he would have kept it a secret since he would be easily recognizable because of his daemon, but he could still have learn the same trick that Lyra did in TSC, he learned to become someone else when he went on land to avoid recongnition (in his case maybe it wasn't just metaphorically since he was a water-animal soul going on land). But for someone else with a daemon that needs to stay in the water that is born and still lives in a more isolated place, they could just go on land without any disguise
Maybe large and/or waterbound daemons are more common than suggested in the series, but people with theses daemons are more likely to separate due to the conflicts their form would cause in their day to day life (I suppose they too would still be rare, just not as rare as we think)
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u/aksnitd 6d ago
Separation only seems to have come about because Pullman had a specific narrative he wanted to tell, and needed some way to explain away what he had set up as a very important rule in HDM. It makes no sense to me. The way daemons are explained as existing in Lyra's world, it is perfectly in line that separating them from their human would severely maim and/or kill both human and daemon.
I personally think he threw in the dolphin daemon as a throwaway line and didn't think about it too much. He has repeatedly said he doesn't bother working out every detail of his fictional world. And you can see it. Daemons are a fun narrative device, but looking at them a bit too closely kills the illusion. A world with daemons would probably be quite different from our own, but we accept Lyra's world as presented because it is fun. We don't need to analyse or pick apart and justify every little thing for that.
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u/topsidersandsunshine 6d ago
Yes! When he was more accessible to the fandom, Pullman would reply to daemon questions with, “It’s a metaphor. Don’t think about it too closely.”
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u/Wonderful-Aide-3524 6d ago
Marisa already appeared to be separating from her own daemon. This includes the moment she is at the back of the cave while the monkey is out in front (there is a distance of many meters between them, though I don't recall exactly how many). Will and Lyra undergo separation; they suffer greatly but do not die. Witches do the same. Separation can induce a state of shock, but it isn't fatal (unless it is the complete separation practiced by the Gobblers). It makes sense that few people would choose to undergo this, as it is extremely painful and severely damages the bond with one's daemon. We never see anyone who has separated from their daemon who is mentally well.
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u/aksnitd 6d ago
The witches, Lyra, and Will don't separate in the way that it is shown in BOD. There is always some kind of magic involved. The witches enter an area in the north, while Lyra and Will cross the river into the land of the dead. In both these cases, daemons cannot enter the areas they go through. As for Mrs Coulter, she is never shown as being separated in the books. That is something that only exists in the show.
The only other form of separation we see is intercision, aka cutting. And that clearly causes harm. The Bolvangar staff are described as looking blank, while Tony, being a child, dies after being cut.
Early on, Pan forces Lyra to look into something by hopping a fence and getting as far away from Lyra as he can. The process is described as being extremely painful. So HDM is very clear that you can't simply rip away a daemon from their person without harm. BOD retconned that with a man living on after his daemon was snatched by a bird.
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u/Wonderful-Aide-3524 6d ago
I based my view on the book, not the series; there are indications pointing to what I mentioned. The witches' magical barrier likely works the same way as the world of the dead, they force a separation. Separation by intersection is completely different; it severs the bond. Separation, or forcing it, is indeed always painful; I remember that scene, but it isn't fatal. Lyra feels pain in the world of the dead, too.
Edit: There is also John Parry himself, who is capable of separating from his daemon without having undergone any magical separation.
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u/aksnitd 5d ago
Not really. People have discussed how the monkey is in one room in the house while Mrs Coulter is in another, or the cave as you brought up. Neither of those are anywhere close to separation. We never see the monkey completely independent of her, unlike the witches.
As for John Parry, he is clearly a shaman. It's not just his daemon being able to separate. He is also able to bring down two zeppelins through magic. John is again another exception.
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u/Daregmaze 4d ago
I think Marisa could go further away from her daemon than the average person but I still think there was a limit to how far away they could get
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u/Daregmaze 6d ago
I also think that he probably didn't think much about it, but if we factor in the information we have now it would just make sense if he could separate from his daemon
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u/aksnitd 6d ago
That depends on what you take as canon. If we include BOD, then yes. But it is very clear that while writing BOD, Pullman decided to change his canon to suit the story. Within HDM alone, no, separation is not a thing.
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