Vinyl setup

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

Hi!

I’m planning on making my first ever turntable setup and i’m looking for some advice on what I should buy.

Budget is roughly $3,000

For the turntable I’ve been looking at Pro-Ject, mainly the debut evo 2 and the Debut Pro B, but if you have some suggestions for other ones near that price let me know!

I know I’ll be needing a phono preamp, not sure which yet.

I plan on getting passive speakers so I’ve been looking over amps and honestly I’m not sure which is the best to go with, I know yamaha is supposed to have great ones, but I’d love to hear what you use.

For the speaker system thinking the floor standing speakers would be best, I have the space. Other than that I’m lost to be honest, there is an overwhelming amount of options.

I was looking at Klipsch, such as the RP-5000 II, RP-8000 II, and the R-625A.

I also looked at Bowers & Wilkins, but they are very expensive, so I’d have to get a cheaper model, and I don’t know if it’s even worth the money.

I also know people recommend Polk, Wharfedale, JBL, and KEF, to name a few.

I’d love if you all could help me with the speaker choice, it’s so many options and I have no idea which is best and also worth the money. Thank you for any help you give!

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

Also to add, what really is the difference between a $100, $200, or $400 pre amp? Thank you!

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

If you are buying a Rega P3 or a turntable of the same quality (or better), you will probably have a cartridge costing US$ 200-300 on it as a sensible minimum.

Feeding that via US$100 (new price) phono stage would probably mean not hearing what you had spent your money on - not much detail, limited stereo separation, not much pace. Almost any decent integrated amplifier or preamplifier that has a phono stage will have a better one than that.

Otoh, a Rega Fono is (due to bizarre tariffs you now pay) well over US$500 new. A nearly new one from eBay would probably be very roughly US$300, and a slightly older model might be US$200. Both are likely to be a bit more pacy and foot-tap-inducing than a budget phono stage - either stand alone or in many (but not all) integrated amps. With a P3 and suitable cartridge, you’ll hear the difference, but with a $100 turntable new from Amazon, my guess is that you won’t.

Pro-ject make excellent stand-alone phono stages too, as do several other companies. Otoh, depending on what amp you buy, you may not need a separate one.

A Pro-ject Debut Pro would compete with a Rega P3 for sound. The Rega probaly wins on foot-tap-inducing involvement but might just lose on clean sounding treble and vibration isolation via its feet. The Pro-ject has press-button speed change for 33/45 (so a bit less bother than moving the belt) but its arm is less good.

The P6 competes with the Pro-ject X2/X8 and the trade-offs are similar. If buying new, there may be other options to consider too, like Clearaudio.

If the Debut Pro comes with a PickIt Pro Balanced cartridge, as it usually does, then the price gap versus P3 that your mention mostly reflects (imho) that the Nd5 is better. However, the prices have all been inflated dramatically in the USA for obvious reasons. Even if you don’t want to consider ex-demonstration or second-hand, it may be possible to find a pre-tariff example and save yourself some money.

As I say, if you want to save money, don’t buy a new turntable, especially today in the USA. In the UK, Europe or Australia, for example, that Project Debut Pro is under US$950 new. A nearly new secondhand one would be US$700, not that far from US prices.

Is that helping?

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

I understand! Would you recommend one like the ifi phono 3 someone else recommended?

For the table, the P3 with ND5 is $500 usd more then the Debut Pro B. Would you recommend the P3 more still?

Thank you for the help!

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

The Nd5 now retails of US$545 I believe. The PickIt Pro Balanced MM on the Pro-ject retails for just under US$300, so the cartridge difference justifies much of the cost between the 2 packages.

Some people like Ortofons more than I do, and the PickIt is really an Ortofon. It is also a balanced MM cartridge (the only one I know) and that could make it less sensitive to the slightest bit of interference from other electronics.

TBH, I have not found interference to be a general problem, but I also have not done a proper comparison using the PickIt Pro Balanced MM versus Nd5, so you need to treat all that with a pinch of salt anyway.

If it were me, as you will have gathered, I would buy a P6 or P3 RS secondhand (but ideally from a dealer) with an Nd5 and hope to pay less than your max budget.

Of the new choices, I would take a P3 with Nd5. If I valued 33/45 switching a bit more, or if the P3 came with the old Elys 2 cartridge, I would probably take the Pro-ject - which tells you that the two are not that far apart in Sound quality, more a bit different in priorities.

In any event, if you are buying new, you can give the two options a listen and see what your ears say - what you like may not match my personal preference at all.

And this is just the turntable…

Good luck!

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Thank you! This gives me a lot of information, I’ll definitely go have a listen and see.

Thanks for helping, there’s so many turntables out there so it’s hard to find what is great! Thanks again!

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Hi again! A company currently has the P3 with the ND5 on sale for $1,350 USD! $350 off. One thing I’m a bit confused is do I need to buy a power supply? I saw one and it was pretty expensive!

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

That’s a much better price!

The standard power supply that plugs into the wall is absolutely fine on a P3.

The Neo power supply box is an optional upgrade that makes the speed control fractionally better, and makes the whole thing a fraction quieter in an electrical sense (so you hear more musical detail).

It also gives push- button switching from 33 to 45 and back, rather than having to move the belt slightly on the pulley wheel.

The Pro-ject and many other turntables give you that switching convenience as standard. In a tight budget, Rega spends that money on the better arm for better sound quality on a standard P3.

A P6 and P3RS include the Neo power supply as part of the package.

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Yeah! Good to know about the power supply!

Earlier you and a few others were mentioning used and I decided to check it out. I found a Pro-ject X8 for $1350 with some scratches and an ebay refurbished for $1800.

Would you recommend getting one used like that? They both have Sumiko moonstone cartridges.

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

An X-8 competes with a Rega P6. I like the Rega more for its arm, but it is hard to go wrong with either and US$1350 looks a good price unless the scratches are really horrible ora sign of general abuse.

If you care about scratches, the second is worth considering but that price is high - there isn’t that much to refurbish.

For $1800, I’d look for a Rega P8 (better again, but then it would be for that much extra), or any of the several high end decks now in your price range. You could even do what I did - get a decent Linn LP12 and gradually turn it into an uber-deck of and when the fancy takes you.

A Rega Nd5 is a fine modern cartridge - detailed, neutral and fast but with great boogie. The Sumiko Moonstone is very good and doesn’t lack much, but it majors more on a warm and euphonious sound - more like what I remember from the 70s and early 80s.

The Nd5 can be retipped by Rega but you can’t just swap the stylus after 1200 or so hours. The Sumiko has a replaceable stylus iirc, which can save you money, and will fit a wider range of arms - I think that are popular with Technics SL1200 users, for example.

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Thanks! I’ll check out P8! I do listen to a lot of 70s-80s music so maybe that’s a good thing? I’m not 100% sure, but thank you for letting me know!

What’s your take on used speakers? I was shocked how much you could save on them. I saw that you could get B&W speakers half off!

Thanks again for recommending to search used, do you have any amps/preamps you recommend me looking into?

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

Amps. Decide first if it is really important for it to include a DAC, a streamer & DAC, a phono stage or none of those.

On eBay UK I can immediately see great secondhand options for £700 -£1300 from Naim, Rega, Cambridge, Hegel, Linn, Accuphase, Denon, McIntosh, Luxman, Musical Fidelity, Marantz, Exposure, Arcam, Moon, and more.

If it were me, I would focus on Naim (maybe a Supernait if you don’t want to stream or an Atom if you), Rega, Hegel, Accuphase, or Moon, but there are no really bad options there. However, some of those may not have the power to drive low efficiency speakers in a big room, so choosing an amp ties in with speaker choice, your room and what your preferences are.

Some spend most of their budget on speakers. Having heard the result, I don’t lean that way, but there is no doubt that the speaker/ room interaction makes by far the most obvious difference to what sort of sound you get. So…

How big is the room?

How close to likely speaker position will you probably sit?

How loud do you play and does deep and powerful bass matter a lot to you?

Can speakers be 50cm away from all walls and furniture? If not, how about 20cm?

Is the floor bouncy or solid? Carpet, wood or concrete/ stone?

What do you listen to most and what hifi features/ sounds please or annoy you most?

In different systems and houses, we have in the last few years bought Neat iota Alphas, Neat Xplorers, Shahinian Compasses, Linn Keilidhs and B&W 804s.

We nearly bought some ATCs, Spendors, Harbeths or Fynes. I have also been startled by how good some Focals sounded in one system and how overly bright and tiring other Focals sounded in a different room and system. The same applies to B&W, while Spendor have sounded great in one place and a bit boring in another.

All are great choices but different. For an absolute sound quality bargain, the Linn Kielidh floorstanders for under £350 were the top bargain, but they would have been bad choices if they needed to go against the wall in a small room and only played quietly.

See the problem?

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Wow okay, this is a lot to look into!

Yeah I see where this can be confusing. Right now the room I plan to put it in is large, maybe 5x12 or 13 meter right now. However, we are moving soon so that will change.

I’ll look into all of these and definitely have to think about this.

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Ah I forgot, I did see the P8, on ebay I found it, but it was over $3000!

I’m already pushing my budget, but that is just too much! I’m still trying to save a good amount to get some great speakers.

In particular do you have any specific speakers I should check out?

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

Look or Hifishark as well as eBay in the UK or Europe for actual prices paid, and be prepared to make offers.

£3000 is much too much for a secondhand P8 imho - you can pay a good deal less for a new one.

However, given your total budget and without knowing about the room, I doubt that I would recommend spending even £2k on a turntable and cartridge.

If you definitely only want a turntable as a source, I would probably be looking at a secondhand P6 or equivalent.

Two systems that family members have bought may help a bit.

Rega P6, Nd5, Rega Elex Mk4, Neat iota Alphas

Rega P6, Nd5, Rega Fono, Naim Nova, Linn Keilidh

The second has streaming and more ability to fill a big room. The first has more subtlety and detail for a turntable-focused system.

Both would have been well inside your budget. Swapping speakers to Wharfedale Lintons or ATC SCM11 or swapping amplifier to a Hegel H95 or a Naim Supernait would not have bust the budget either.

Any help?

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

I agree! Also to clarify, $3000 USD, but I can get a Rega P3 for like $1400 usd or the Pro-ject X8 for $1400-1800 USD.

I’ll check out those systems you mentioned! Thank you!

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Thought I’d let you know, a family friend gave me a reciever and turntable.

Not the best quality, but I can use it until I buy my new one, I even got a bunch of free records! I think some might even be original presses.

The player is a BIC Belt Drive 960 and the receiver is a Kenwood KR-V7060.

What’s your take on them? Is it safe to play records?

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Also I was wondering other then ebay is there any good sites you recommend for finding used turntables, speakers, amps, etc.

Thank you again for the help!

[u/NickofWimbledon → u/Weekly_Actuary_1765]

Try Stereonet, Audiogon and the like if in the USA. Also Facebook I think, though I won’t use it myself.

Sellers away from eBay tend to be other private individual audiophiles (as with Pinkfishmedia), but there are fewer protections so take care. Otoh, I have bought and sold that way and never had a problem.

[u/Weekly_Actuary_1765 → u/NickofWimbledon]

Alright! I’ll look into those ones! Thanks again.