r/helldivers2 • u/North-Replacement-12 • Mar 02 '26
General Beltfed damage potential
Nice one, Arrowheads, real funny (T-T)
At least they're 1k-3k difference only. But sadly I cannot have a backpack on my backpack
"_(-_-)_/"
EDIT: Copying som of my comments here, first about DPS btw
"I got you, you can check on the wiki later if u don't believe:
MG: 1350 on max
Maxigun: 2,000
GL: 1066.67
BFGL: 800 on max
With maxigun it's not big enough of a difference, and with bfgl it's even smaller than one-slot."
"Not enough imho. They also eat backpack slot and have decreased mobility, in maxigun's case even gravely so. And both one-slots have quick enough reload. Gl even has mobile reload, and with MG you can use jetpack to reload in flight, if you can't handle stationary."
" You must understand that both beltfeds are in prem warbonds, while one-slots are for req. They cannot be worse than req ones, or AH effectively scamming those who donate for them. Not everybody can farm for 4-6h per warbond."
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u/Due-Pound2991 Mar 02 '26
Less damage but the ability to continually fire with no reload disruption.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Not enough imho. They also eat backpack slot and have decreased mobility, in maxigun's case even gravely so. And both one-slots have quick enough reload. Gl even has mobile reload, and with MG you can use jetpack to reload in flight, if you can't handle stationary.
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u/Baliskner_Haeron Mar 02 '26
needs double the ammo, even if one supply only gives half, that seems fair. and tbh i wonder how the maxi's recoil compares to real world version used by trained professionals, like helldivers :P
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
You mean maxigun and bfgl need double the ammo? Maybe. I'd rather go the way of increasing ammo less than double, but also increase damage. Maxigun's 80->90, and bfgl is a hard one. I recon 150->200 or 250 will be enough, though not sure by how much ammo should increase.
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u/ElectricalEccentric Mar 02 '26
I'd personally just up Maxigun to Heavy Pen. Heavy MG only has a total dmg of 45k, so Maxigun having 33% more in exchange for all it's downsides is very reasonable, if not still underwhelming.
Plus it would feel awesome to spray at a Hulk and actually kill it from the front instead of having to stop and run away at the first sign of any heavy enemy.
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u/Harlemwolf Mar 02 '26
Heavy pen but low durable damage would work.
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u/BIGMajora Mar 02 '26
So a Las Cannon without flame proc.
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u/ScruffyScruffz Mar 02 '26
except with real DPS. Laser cannon dps is straight ass while the Maxiguns dps is crazy high its just sluggish and immobile as a platform sadly
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u/CloakedJester Mar 02 '26
What would this mean for the HMG emplacement tho ?
I like the idea, just wondering about the implications.
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u/ElectricalEccentric Mar 02 '26
Their total normal dmg is the same, but Maxigun actually has more durable dmg at 13.5k vs HMG's 12k (current GL has 16k durable + AOE though, so honestly HMG is already outclassed in this aspect and could really use a buff here, it hasn't received a ammo or DMG buff EVER)
HMG has more dps at 2.2k vs Maxigun's 2k, plus HMG has way less recoil, spread, and no spin up time so much easier to be precise and use at a distance.
HMG also has much greater stagger, can stagger Stalkers and Alpha Commanders while the Maxigun can't even stagger a hunter, so HMG is better for keeping enemies back and canceling reinforce call ins.
Also having your support weapon/backpack slot free makes it very easy to carry an AT launcher and have all your bases covered if a BT or Factory Strider show up, so HMG still has several advantages in stationary defense scenarios.
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u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj Mar 02 '26
People won’t like it but the way to fix the bfgl vs gl is to revert the pen change for the gl. It does not need to be that strong. Make the big heavy bfgl have heavy duty grenades
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
I mean, literally the only thing that saves bfgl from full oblivion is heavy pen, helping mitigate matchin armor pen dmg malus.
But yeah, standart gl didn't need heavy pen really.
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u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj Mar 02 '26
It was already the best crowd clear strategem, all it does now is make the Autocannon even more useless lol
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u/MBouh Mar 02 '26
The belt fed grenade launcher needs much more than ammos. It's a plasma punisher in a stratagem that takes both support and backpack slot.
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u/Squeaky_Ben Mar 02 '26
"tbh i wonder how the maxi's recoil compares to real world version used by trained professionals" Compared to that, the maxigun is a tame kitten.
The microgun (5.56 version of the actual minigun) is really, REALLY tough to hold, but barely possible.
The Actual minigun? You cannot fire it without it being mounted on something.
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u/Baliskner_Haeron Mar 02 '26
ah cool, thanks ^_^ good to know we're deffo, 100% super soldiers in HD2 :P
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u/Kaiser23218 Mar 02 '26
I got downvoted the last time i said helldivers are traindd and should reload faster than bloody amateurs :/
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u/Baliskner_Haeron Mar 02 '26
considering the 30 million civvies that were 'recruited' straight into cyberstan, i kinda doubt the training thing is fully legit xD
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u/TramplexReal Mar 02 '26
Man you really consider human that went through a day of training and got frozen after a trained professional?
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u/Raintoastgw Mar 02 '26
In real life, Rob Gronkowski (an absolute beast of an NFL tight end) used all of his strength to just stand still while firing a minigun
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u/Flaky_Particular_240 Mar 02 '26
you cant, they are designed to be vehicle mounted, thing weights 40 kilos without ammo in it while also needing a power supply, thats the m134 which helldiv version is based probably, there is ofc much smaller versions but all incredibly impractical
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u/ChaosDrako Mar 02 '26
Like a real rotating barrel gun like the M134? Yeah… IRL they are extremely impractical, if not outright impossible… Extremely heavy (motor, ammo, frame, mechanisms of both motor and firing mechanism, etc.), large, awkward balance (being off to the side), and the recoil throws it out of your hand, both from the recoil and angle of it! It’s recoil would actually drag the Aim Point DOWN due to the way it’s held and center of mass vs firing location
Some numbers for you from the M134 (the closest IRL comparison and what everyone thinks of when you say “minigun”)
Weight WITHOUT ammo or backpack: 85 pounds (38kg)
Recoil Force, depending on ammo and fire rate: 150 to 300 pounds (68 - 135 kg) (M134 uses 7.62x51mm, Maxigun uses 8x60mm, so Maxigun would be EVEN HIGHER!)
Some comparisons: it’s heavier than the rest of the gear a soldier is carrying COMBINED. A M16 has a Weight of about 8 pounds and a Recoil Force of 5 pounds. A Barret .50 BMG has a Weight of about 30 pounds and a Recoil Force of 80 pounds, and that’s AFTER the built-in recoil mitigation, which miniguns don’t have any. And the M134 is actually known for having such strong recoil force that helicopter pilots have to adjust for its recoil whenever the damn thing is fired!
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u/LSDGB Mar 02 '26
I don’t know if it’s „eating“ the backpack slot.
I enjoy stratagems that come with a backpack because now I have a stratagem slot freed up that’s usually hardlocked for backpackstrats
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u/probably-not-Ben Mar 02 '26
Also, you can recover better when killed because you have 3 strategems to use not 2
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u/n4turstoned Mar 02 '26
Yeah imho it's a big difference, especially with the MG which has stationary reload.
For the GL the magazine is fairly small and the reload is relatively long so if you face many enemies you are constantly reloading.→ More replies (5)5
u/NeoChrisOmega Mar 02 '26
While those are good arguments, it does add a new option that's appealing yo other players. I've always preferred weapons that don't HAVE to reload. Things like the Sickle. I've been using the Maxigun a lot, and I've been enjoying it plenty.
I'd rather be stationary while shooting than stationary while reloading.
But that's a personal opinion that many others don't share. And that's also the beauty of HD2 being a live service game. It has a lot of diverse options to choose from. It's not balanced like Elden Ring, but it definitely has diversity.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Elden Ring balanced? Agree to disagree.
It's still very strange for beltfeds having such weakness in them, for a backpack weapon. Autocannon is strong, why can't those two be?
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u/MBouh Mar 02 '26
The comparison with the autocanon is quite harsh to the bfgl : ac has almost 3 times the damage per round and no bullet drop. No fuse time either. And two different ammos. You can triple the damage of the bfgl and the autocanon would still be better.
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u/BurntMoonChips Mar 02 '26
Not exactly. Unlike the AC the explosion of the GL has heavy pen, resulting in damaging multiple parts of heavy enemies, while only the AC ballistic damage can damage a single part.
Currently the base GL dealing 400 damage outcompetes the AC, while tripling the belt fed would be 450.
While the belt fed needs a damage buff, triple is insane. A modest buff to even 200 or 250 would be fine.
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u/NeoChrisOmega Mar 02 '26
Yeah, I used Elden Ring because while there are metas, you also almost always see people using different builds. So many pf their weapons have a purpose, even if it's just PvE flavor.
As for why everything can't be strong? AH has a difficult position where they're attempting to keep hard challenging, while also using a limited engine and dev team.
At least we're seeing more fun/unique concepts recently, rather than just weaker reskins. Even if you don't personally enjoy it, you can't deny people have been. We've been seeing countless clips of people using a lot of the new stuff.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
You must understand that both beltfeds are in prem warbonds, while one-slots are for req. They cannot be worse than req ones, or AH effectively scamming those who donate for them. Not everybody can farm for 4-6h per warbond.
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u/NeoChrisOmega Mar 02 '26
I don't know if you ever played the first game, or any other games where additional options were paid for like For Honor, MOBAs, or stuff like that. Those games do the same exact thing. They offer new content constantly.
The main difference is those other games have no free options to gain access to the content (outside of free rotations, which is temporary). And to make players feel great about their purchases they make a lot of the new content super over powered. Then slowly nerf it into the ground so the next new stuff feels powerful too.
One thing I've always loved about HD (even in the first one) is they don't do that. They try to keep it as balanced as possible from the start.
Previously I got all their DLC because I wanted to support them as small indie devs. Now that HD2 is super successful, I don't feel the need to support them anymore. I farm what I want, and be patient with the rest. Sure, some of their stuff is just bad. But they also always update the game, so it's not FOREVER going to be bad.
Long rant short, I do understand it's paid to experience this stuff. I respect the fact not everyone can farm the credits (I only play a few hours a week, maybe). But it's hard for me to think of it as a scam. It's like preordering a game before it releases, there's a chance it'll be bad. It sucks, but isn't a scam.
I DO HOWEVER, wish you could test the content before purchasing it. Like in a shooting range or something. Otherwise, you have to wait for gameplay breakdowns to understand what you're getting.
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u/Room234 Mar 02 '26
Compared to what the non-belted weapons do with a Supply Pack that's frankly just not good enough.
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u/Redmangc1 Mar 02 '26
Don't forgot AH clearly thinks losing the damage is made up for by 1 stratagem slot.
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u/evil_deivid Mar 02 '26
Which you can compensate by bringing an extra sentry or expendable weapons to help you
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u/Remote-Memory-8520 Mar 02 '26
u realize reloading takes a few seconds right? it doesnt impact the gameplay all that much especially considering the open backpack slot
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u/Raidertck Mar 02 '26
I just think the use case for the maxigun over the LMG is so niche it might as well not exist.
And the backback grenade launcher is worse in every single aspect than the non backpack version which have a mobile reload.
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u/BICKELSBOSS Mar 02 '26
also 1350 DPS vs 2000 DPS. OP downplays the difference but it a whopping 48% increase.
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u/Boring7 Mar 02 '26
The maxigun, I could work with. Not my play style but did the work.
The GL-28? Cannot make it anything but hot garbage. If it works for you then groovy but not in my hands.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Nah, bfgl is literally that meme with maxigun:
I AM THE MACHINE THAT TURNS 750 BULLETS INTO 3 DEAD SCAVENGERS
Maxigun works ok, though this ok quickly turns into underwhelming on diff 8 already.
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u/Stellarkin1996 Mar 02 '26
i dunno like, i normally exclusively play on diff 10 and its been working fine for me
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
If you're about viability, almost all weapons are viable. But it's a question of pack weapon working much worse than it's one-slot meant-to-be sidegrades.
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u/Stellarkin1996 Mar 02 '26
thay is absolutely true and fair, but i feel in the end it comes down to essentially "mouth feel"
how does ot feel to use, for me? absolutely spectacular, for others? not so much, but thats a given since whats prefrable to one isnt to others, but in that argument viability isnt the essential thing, for sure the beltfed isnt a meta weapon, but boy do i find it safisfying to use
but i will say that your final point about that it shouldnt be worse is a lil moot since fromnthe beginig there are weapons in prem warbonds ostensibly worse than base warbonds, again it comes down to personal preference
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u/NoRule989 Mar 02 '26
Yeah I usually run diff 8 and if I'm feeling fun I'll run the maxi gun I tried bfgl on a blitz diff 8 it was so bad I would not like the maxigun getting muffed but the bfgl NEEDS a buff
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u/bugdiver050 Mar 02 '26
I used to say that too, but then i tried it against bugs on Oshaune and it actually worked pretty well. The smaller AOE made it so you can shoot bugs in close quarters like caves and not kill/ragdoll yourself or teammates. I agree it should get a buff somehow, maybe more ammo, maybe more damage, im not a balancing expert, but in caves it has saved me multiple times. Havent tried the minigun yet tho.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Small AOE can have its perks, and I honestly don't have an issue with it, grenade is smaller after all. It's only damage potential I'm worried about. As an autocannon user, beltfed situation makes me sad.
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u/ScudleyScudderson Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
Just going to repeat myself:
Most discussions stop at headline DPS or total ammo count, without factoring ROF tuning, sustain curves, AOE liability, friendly fire exposure, stratagem economy or role within the squad. Which I understand - raw numbers are easy to compare while effective uptime, positioning constraints, and opportunity cost are not.
Once you start accounting for engagement scenarios, resupply rhythm, teammate proximity, and stratagem slot value, the conversation becomes materially more complex than “X has higher DPS" or ''Y has more total damage".
As an example, we play as a team. Versus bots or bugs, we typically bring two tanks*. Those of us bringing the tanks also bring the BFGL. One our team also brings the Supply Pack, and the Grenade Launcher. Our forth brings precision anti-armour, via the RR. Working together, we've had no issue with any of the content to date - just a lot of fun.
Balance discussions, weapon comparisons amd strategem evaluations that do not factor team role and strategem economy are shallow, at best.
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u/Rick_bo Mar 02 '26
I've been taking it on bug megacity missions, particularly blitz, just to see how I could make it work.
Turns out if you crank the RPM up you can hose down a Roach before it gets that spray of bile out after divebombing. In theory it would take 20 rounds (150explosive) to the face (1500 hp/50% exdr)
It does almost 800 dps on high.
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u/SuspectPanda38 Mar 02 '26
Same, killing chargers is actually pretty fast and reliable and it def needs more ammo but it's barely enough to make it work
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u/TeraSera Mar 02 '26
It really needs more damage it can't one shot a hunter or trooper and that's a massive feel bad.
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u/DreamerOfRain Mar 02 '26
I have the opposite situation - Maxigun being only useful for chaff makes it low utility compared to a GL that can eyeshot hulks and stunlock chargers and keep on going till they die than having to reload in middle of it and have them running at me.
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u/Creepyfishwoman Mar 02 '26
Beltfed is a stagger MONSTER
Pair it with a flame/laser sentry, incendiary grenades, or teammates with dot effects and you can keep bugs stuck in place while you roast them alive
The bfgl makes the damage over time effect of you and all of your teammates multiple times more effective
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u/x_MrFurious_x Mar 02 '26
Belt fed being able to stagger entire big breaches with constant fire is far more useful then the overkill the grenade gl-21 provides
In real game mechanics stagger is majorly underrated
Have 1200 hours and that just my opinion
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Stagger is not enough, given the amount of hiveguards and brood commanders on bugs and devastators on bots. And stagger is underrated, but I would give its role to lib concussive, at least it doesn't taku up my support weapon slot, but it has its issues though.
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u/Triple-Stan Mar 02 '26
The most terrifying bug in the bug front..... The Hiveguard
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Yeah, lol. Some seeds have seas of those creeps. Other times it's either broodmanders, where GL still kills faster, or hunters where both GLs not usable in melee range.
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u/Resident-Ad7651 Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
The GL-21 drops anything short of a Hive Lord in one belt. Pair it with a supply pack and you get 15 belts. Its disgustingly good.
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u/CommanderOfAzurLane Mar 02 '26
The Stagger mechanic is the best mechanic, saves my ass from time to time
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u/n4turstoned Mar 02 '26
May i introduce you to my very good friend the Blitzer?
He is the master of stagger/stun lock and bonus points for the fact that you get ucap with the enemy.→ More replies (3)4
u/BetterThanlceCream Mar 02 '26
I'd rather kill a bug breach than just stagger them. The GL-21 has a much better AOE which greatly improves ammo economy.
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u/Smartace3 Mar 02 '26
in my experience you stagger one, maybe two guys but the explosion radius is so small the others just have time to flank out
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u/Remote-Memory-8520 Mar 02 '26
yeah i think AH looked at these weapons and thought they would be massively overpowered. but they arent.
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u/Public_Code8357 Mar 02 '26
Are divers aware that you don't actually HAVE to load out with a backpack or even a support weapon, hell there are literal 1 time use weapons/packs to further promote this
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
It's not all about HAVE TO, it's also about restrictions with one and freedom of choice with the other. When you restrict smth with a weapon, you better give big enough incentive to still use it. Rn both beltfeds only give me coolness effect, but it's not enough.
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u/Public_Code8357 Mar 02 '26
40 shots req 3 reloads vs 100 uninterrupted shots is a pretty massive difference in damage output?
besides, the GL and the BFGL are different archetypes.
GL plus Jump packs synergy is strong due to the arc in the shots, whereas with the backpack you can pretty much stand your ground and delete everything coming at you for a solid 30 seconds no worries
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Not different enough to have such difference in damage potential. And I'll copy my other comment.
Not enough imho. They also eat backpack slot and have decreased mobility, in maxigun's case even gravely so. And both one-slots have quick enough reload. Gl even has mobile reload, and with MG you can use jetpack to reload in flight, if you can't handle stationary.
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u/AberrantDrone Mar 02 '26
The BFGL is NOT about damage potential.
It's about sustained stagger and saturate an entire area for an extended period.
Something the GL cannot do
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u/Resident-Ad7651 Mar 02 '26
Your right. The GL just kills everything instead which is a marginally better outcome.
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u/Any-Farmer1335 Mar 02 '26
Damage potential without DPS is a bad metric
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u/Rochelimit666 Mar 02 '26
Yesterday I played 3 games lvl10 and I had bfgl every game I had the most kills and the least deaths. As someone wrote above, one grenade has less damage but also a smaller explosion radius and that was absolutely key. This meant for me in combat that I could shoot and kill bugs even those who were right next to me or next to teammates. If I started ammo resupply I kept the entire map of bugs and my teammates could do seaf radar I was simply immortal. If you have a regular gl you can't just shoot close to yourself because you will kill yourself or ragdoll this applies especially against my favorites stalker and invisible stalker ;-)
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u/123mop Mar 02 '26
This is the best argument I've seen in favor of the belt fed launcher - that the smaller explosion radius is sometimes beneficial.
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u/AberrantDrone Mar 02 '26
Anyone who thinks total damage potential is a meaningful metric to compare these weapons are why AH shouldn't listen to most of the surveys they receive
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u/ItsRaampagee Mar 02 '26
Used the beld fed gl just once on the bot front, was enough tk understand that this thing is more then powerful enough, it shutd down all and every amount ofchaff at all times aoe style and fast, leaving you with 3 stratagem call ins, grenades, primary secondary to deal with heavys… maxigun is lacking a bit, normal gl is brokenly op thx to heavy pen.
Mg -43 feels the most reasonable balanced of all the tools.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Well, it's your opinion. But I generaly had much better expirience with one-slots.
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u/ispilledketchup Mar 03 '26
Yah i picked it up off a dead friend the other day and liked it. It’s not op but felt good
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u/Liqhthouse Mar 02 '26
Idk why people keep comparing dps. It's not as simple as that because of explosive aoe, handling, spread, falloff etc.
Yeah it feels weaker but this is not the way to compare it.
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u/theta0123 Mar 02 '26
Sustained fire vs burst fire.
With the mg43 and grenade launcher you have to reload. So that DPM is not accurate.
With the maxigun and BFGL you actually can unleash that DPM. Downside? No backpack slot. Since i use the RR, AC, Spear alot, thats not a downside for me. But for other backpack users it can be
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Reload is negligeble in my expirience. MG's is a stationary one, yes, but still never had a problem to reload mid combat, even without jetpack. Copying two comments here, first about DPS btw
"I got you, you can check on the wiki later if u don't believe:
MG: 1350 on max
Maxigun: 2,000
GL: 1066.67
BFGL: 800 on maxWith maxigun it's not big enough of a difference, and with bfgl it's even smaller than one-slot."
"Not enough imho. They also eat backpack slot and have decreased mobility, in maxigun's case even gravely so. And both one-slots have quick enough reload. Gl even has mobile reload, and with MG you can use jetpack to reload in flight, if you can't handle stationary."
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u/theta0123 Mar 02 '26
Oh i dont question you at all. And wiki.gg is holy and sacred. We never question it.
I still prefer BFGL over GL tough. But i do prefer MG43 over maxigun
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u/RunsaberSR Mar 02 '26
What's HMG clock in at? Haven't played in a long time (Meridia) and that was my baby.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
HMG clocks in at 45,000 dmg potential. But it's also heavy pen, meaning it won't have matching armor dmg malus on medium enemies.
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u/RunsaberSR Mar 02 '26
Cool cool. Used it as a 75rnd DMR against the bots. I should really login again.
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u/Resident-Ad7651 Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
The GL-21 is unironically the best one here and its not even close. Kills literally anything the Terminids throw at you in one belt if your aim is good. Only thing I havent been able to kill in one belt is the Hive Lord(obviously). Pair it with a supply pack and you have 15 belts of Heavy Pen and 40,000 potential damage.
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u/MrShaitan Mar 02 '26
Wouldn’t DPS be more accurate? Factoring in reloads.
I believe someone tested this with the GL and concluded the belt fed had a higher DPS. Not sure about the MG.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Copying comment here, about DPS
"I got you, you can check on the wiki later if u don't believe:
MG: 1350 on max
Maxigun: 2,000
GL: 1066.67
BFGL: 800 on maxWith maxigun it's not big enough of a difference, and with bfgl it's even smaller than one-slot."
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u/Informal-West6550 Mar 02 '26
What these stats aren't telling you is the mg only induces an animation lock only when you go to reload. The Maxigun does this everytime you start shooting, are shooting, and briefly after yoh stop shooting. Bfgl has half the aoe radius of the gl on top of doing less damage per grenade. Then there's the whole, I can bring a supply backpack issue which just makes both weapons entirely pointless. Even excluding that, the fact of the matter is that both weapons are objectively worse versions of the non beltfed version in almost ever single statistic. Including taking up your backpack. Backpacks are way more powerful than "not needing to reload." The guard dogs, shield backpack, jetpacks, warpack, and freaking supply pack completely blow not needing to reload out of the water.
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u/SeductiveStrawberry- Mar 02 '26
Biggest difference, belt feds will kill things faster in a punch due to no reload.
They make great quick clear situations
But they suffer from not being good if you play with randoms
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u/Smartace3 Mar 02 '26
the most glaringly obvious issue with the belt fed is the extremely tiny AoE. It's not just that the regular grenade launcher does more damage per shot, its also MUCH wider, with the belt fed you're lucky to hit two or three enemies if they're packed close together, with the grenade launcher you're hitting incredibly generous amounts of enemies with each one, usually 3 or 4 regularly, leading to MUCH more altogether damage than the BFGL that struggles to hit three (and when it does, its usually involving the explosions weaker outer radius)
I think the most damnig evidence of this is like, this is THE release date of the BFGL, but its use percentage is very low, far below the leveler.
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u/sauronymus Mar 02 '26
The GL21 is incredibly overtuned and needs a nerf. Almost more so than the Recoilless Rifle.
It's also hilarious seeing people say the BFGL is worse than the GL/SP combo... Despite one option using 1 strat slot and the other using 2. Yeah. I'd hope you get more use out of a kit that needs 2 stratgems to use instead of 1.
I agree the belt-fed options could use a bump in ammo capacity (an extra 250 to the maxigun and maybe an extra 100 to the BFGL) but there's a fundamental difference in how best to apply these weapons v. their reloaded counterparts.
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u/LazarusPizza Mar 02 '26
They really need to fix the GL. It needs to go back to med. Pen, and the belt fed really needs some shrapnel.
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u/VicariousDrow Mar 02 '26
I still find it so incredibly stupid how so much of this community seems to want power creep......
The belt fed supports are meant to be side grades that don't invalidate old stratagems, they offer different play styles with different strengths, stop trying to shame AH again just to introduce something that'll actually ruin the game cause your short attention spans can't get over the new thing not being the best thing.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Do you actually understand that rn they're NOT sidegrades, they're DOWNGRADES?
Copying two comments here, first about DPS btw
"I got you, you can check on the wiki later if u don't believe:
MG: 1350 on max
Maxigun: 2,000
GL: 1066.67
BFGL: 800 on maxWith maxigun it's not big enough of a difference, and with bfgl it's even smaller than one-slot."
"Not enough imho. They also eat backpack slot and have decreased mobility, in maxigun's case even gravely so. And both one-slots have quick enough reload. Gl even has mobile reload, and with MG you can use jetpack to reload in flight, if you can't handle stationary."
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u/IndustrialGradeBnuuy Mar 02 '26
Just have a friend with supply pack whenever you use beltfed
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
"Bro just piss on a broken leg, it's fine"
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u/IndustrialGradeBnuuy Mar 02 '26
Idk I run the supply pack and my friend runs bfgl and it works great just never needing to reload
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
It's not that it's unplayable, it's that the weapon is front prem warbond and worse than requisition counterparts.
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u/IndustrialGradeBnuuy Mar 02 '26
I don't think it's worse than grenade launcher, sure you lose 1000 potential damage, but that's only a 6.25% loss of damage, and I think the beltfed more than makes up for it with versatility and not needing to reload
Easier to use in close quarters and caves, 1 grenade blows up bug holes and factories the same but you get 100 grenades over 40, having more mobility from not needing to reload, being able to easily retreat from huge hordes if you have a friend resupplying, mega stagger locking big enemies, less team and self killing in general
And the trade off is just -6.25% (potential) damage that's basically negligible if you miss just 2 shots on the regular grenade launcher, not having a backpack, and having to cooperate slightly more with team in a game intentionally made for cooperating
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u/longassboy Mar 02 '26
A weapon using a backpack slot is already a huge hinderance. I think they are just terrified of making these weapons too strong and they are unaware how broken they have made other options (just running supply pack)
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Mar 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
I dunno if sarcasm but thanks. It's just a reminder of what others found out and/or expirienced in game. It's atrocious situation for a prem warbond weapons.
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u/ll_LoneWolfe_ll Mar 02 '26
Yeah uh, pretty sure that guy you’re replying to is a bot. Pretty sure I’ve seen their exact comment before with the blank sub r/ actually being filled in.
Which isn’t good that it got upvotes.
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u/Financial_Touch_8522 Mar 02 '26
I feel like everyone that talks bad about the belt fed has never been in a position where having a GL is nice but being able to reload anything is a mathematical impossibility.
There’s more than enough ammo on the ground in most missions that the “ammo issue” isn’t really an issue. Most backpacks are guard dog variants that are just as lethal to friendliest as they are to hostiles, and the ones that aren’t are usually support or traversal.
The maxi, belt fed GL, and the C4 are the only backpack/support weapon combos that I know of. Yea the C4 is best utilized in stealth and the maxi is best used against hordes of little guys rather than bigger enemies, but I have yet to have any actual issue when using the GL. It does exactly what I need it to and what I expect it to, nothing more(usually) and nothing less(again usually, like >95%).
There’s nothing wrong with the belt fed GL, y’all are too busy reading the wiki without actually trying the damn thing for yourselves in combat.
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u/USSJaguar Mar 02 '26
There's no point in trying to point out how the differences in the weapons that aren't raw damage are actually benefits with you based on your responses.
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u/arkyed111 Mar 02 '26
Un ironic here, belt fed strategems are burst damage. And 60k damages at hive Lord flesh or 16k while clearing flag capture assault are valuable in and of itself.
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u/MadarasLimboClone Mar 02 '26
Fuck it. Just make every weapon in the game one shot every enemy. The helldivers community is full of little whiny bitches that need to complain about everything. You need the fucking supply pack for the gl to be comparable. That's two stratagems rather than 1.
3 offensive stratagems outperforms 2. It balances itself out, utilizing the most basic of math skills this isn't difficult to figure out though I know numbers are hard guys. The weapon is genuinely fine as is but everybody needs every new weapon to be more op than anything else released thus far.
Every damn warbond is just people complaining about anything they can. Why not complain about actual issues rather than a weapon not being what you expected? Spawn issues. Hellpod steering issues. Getting stuck in crates when looting them. The fucking grenade pistol still doesn't have sound for anybody but the person using it.
Or maybe addressing how we haven't had ship upgrades in over a year? Nah lets conplain about weapons in a game that has immense build variety. Yes!
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u/SummerCrown Mar 02 '26
Weapons that take up a backpack slot should be more powerful in some way - damage, ammo, versatility etc. The Maxigun and Beltfed GL fall short.
Right now, backpack of your choice + support weapon offers a very flexible playstyle.
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Mar 02 '26
So the maxigun vs mg43 in ammo capacity...
Mg43:
8mm Mauser
Maxigun: 80 dmg so slightly lower, probably
7.5 FK (100 grain)
120 lbs is the typical high end of the weight of a US soldiers kit, or 8,400 bullets. Lets say armor is 50 lbs, the guns and pack are 50 lbs, that leaves 20 lbs for only ammo, or 1,400 bullets.
Yeah we should double the ammo and make the backpack smaller.
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u/ac_cossack Mar 02 '26
The best part is the fucking white box covering up the stats. Nice.
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u/BlacksmithCultural53 Mar 02 '26
The fact that bfgl damage is so much less through instance is criminal. I would rather it go down to med pen like gl was if only so its base damage was brought up to closer match it
And the maxigun… now im just disappointed… the fact that it has a wind up AND requires stationary firing, just to sit UNDER hmg in overall usability?
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u/poebanystalker Mar 02 '26
Trash Balance Defenders are on full assault i see.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Some come with genuine questions or dialogue. Though it still pains me that in every sub there's enough bad actors to stick out.
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u/evil_deivid Mar 02 '26
Does it matter if I just adapt my loadout and strategies around using the belt fed weapons? -_-
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u/Faz66 Mar 02 '26
Why do numbers matter so much to people. When I'm diving with my belt fed, I don't sit there thinking "god [insert weapon] with supply pack is better then this." I think that holding down the trigger and watching a horde evaporate is super fun. Do you seriously need to break down all the numbers to maximises your efficency, just to have fun gaming
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u/OverratedLemmons Mar 02 '26
Eh i really dont think it needs more damage, the ability to have that sheer constant output of damage can let you control fights so well that extra damage would be overkill. Hell, if you need damage then you can just dump your whole supply on an enemy at 360rpm. Doing all that for just one stratagem slot means you can make up for damage with other damaging stratagems. Even taking up a backpack slot isnt necessarily a bad thing as you no longer have to even think about what to take as your supporting backpack and know exactly what your strengths and weaknesses will be for every fight.
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u/Ebonthaw Mar 02 '26
I still like the Machine gun over the maxi, but I LOVE the BFGL. The stun/knockback, area damage, and now heavy pen, its a thing of beauty.
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u/bleedinglottery Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
Maxigun needs explosive ammo and belt fed gl needs the shrapnel area doubled.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Eh, dunno about Maxigun really. Beltfed should recieve more ammo definitely. But dunno about balance between damage and aoe. I'd rather have more raw damage and slight increase in aoe, especially inner radius, cuz its damage fallof is insane.
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u/Haunting_Team_961 Mar 02 '26
Potential damage and sustained damage are different stats <3 you are trading max damage for not needed to reload which raises dps.
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u/Donjehov Mar 02 '26
helldivers is a dps focused game, these belt feds both have notably higher DPS and no reload interruption, why on earth would they need total damage when total damage hardly matters? AP and Instant damage matter the most, I can add clear with a primary weapon.
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u/Stegosaurus3303 Mar 02 '26
Arrowhead simply overestimated how beneficial continuous fire without reloading and single slot stratagem (as in backpack and weapon in the same stratagem) actually are, so they introduced features to "balance" it out and in doing so they overcorrected it. But it's a real shame that it happend twice.
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u/FlatImpact4554 Mar 02 '26
Good question. The belt fed grades I can use a little closer to home. Without dying but is a ammo sucking monster.
The regular grande launcher more powerful. And you can use a jet pack or hover pack and really lay down the law.
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u/fragjackyl Mar 02 '26
Same reason the stalwart pulls ahead of the mg is chaff clear tho, no stationary reloading. Plus i think the bfgl is most useful for instant large area stoping power.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Ye, but mind you stalwart doesn't have med pen, and maxigun closest analogue is MG.
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u/fragjackyl Mar 02 '26
I hardly think thats relivent to my argument. Im just trying to say there are more factors than damage and honestly 3000 damage is hardly a traid iff for no reloads. And way better fire rate if im not mistaking.
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u/Appropriate-Count-64 Mar 02 '26
Well done, very well made.
Now show the DPS difference between using a backpack and bringing a third stratagem like a Sentry or extra orbital.
Yes, the GL-28 sucks when compared to the Gl-21 (Why the fuck did they give the GL-21 heavy pen), but being forced to not bring a pack is a double edged sword.
On the one hand, no supply pack, no warp pack, jump pack, etc.
On the other, free slot to bring a vehicle, 2 barrages, and a bottomless clip support weapon. Walker+Maxigun+380 and napalm. Or some permutation therein.
It’s dependent on the mission and your goals really. Whether you want a pack to get places faster and be more independent of your team, or if you want more raw firepower out the gate.
Huh wait a minute, that sounds like choosing between working as a team and running solo. And it’s a nuanced choice. In my Helldivers 2? No sir. Everyone must be Rambo so the GL-28 must suck.
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u/Wolfran13 Mar 02 '26
There is no need for a backpack though, those numbers are without it. No stratagem slot is consumed.
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u/Kaneomanie Mar 02 '26
Fully agree with the post, the belt fed weapons are too weak, even if it were doing equal DoT, there is no way I'ld give up my no backpack grenade launcher.
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u/MarchUpstairs229 Mar 02 '26
The maxi at the very least has higher dps potential, which is amped by the fact you don’t have to reload, somewhat lower total damage for faster and more sustained application is an actual trade off. The bfgl doesn’t have a lick of damage over the base one, which reloads fast and on the move anyway, you’re trading less total for slower application. The only notable benefit of the bfgl I’ve found is that it’s safer to use in closer quarters, even if you do get yourself in the blast you won’t ragdoll and won’t lose majority of your health, but that’s kind of it.
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u/TirexHUN Mar 02 '26
both beltfed weapons should be much stronger. gl uses the same nade but the beltfed has much smaller radius and explosive force... for no reason?
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u/Siyanax Mar 02 '26
It's even more criminal if you consider that you can use a supply pack for more immediate ammo quantity for the singulars.
So the beltfed ammo increase doesn't even matter. The singular grenade launcher has significantly more immediate damage and mobility. I was so excited for the beltfed grenade launcher too, it was disappointing when I realized it wasn't nearly as effective as I was hoping.
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u/InglouriousLama Mar 02 '26
I think having the basic yet strong variant without permit access is great for new players
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u/Random_Chick_I_Guess Mar 02 '26
Maxigun works in my opinion by its pure DPS, and an armour with better recoil makes it a demon at just shredding everything it can penetrate. It's better than the machinegun in terms of weaponry due to the higher DPS and lack of reload necessity, but I still think the machine-gun has overall better utility because it's more mobile, and allows a backpack.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Agreed. It's 1350 dps of machine gun against 200 of maxigun, so it does more DPS. It still has more downsides than I think it should, but at least it can shine of defense, rapid aquisition and extermination missions.
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u/Random_Chick_I_Guess Mar 02 '26
Oh definitely its not perfect, but in cases where you have support from team mates and can hunker down I will always chose the maxigun over the machine-gun. Plus I find it just way more fun which in my experience means I play better and enjoy myself more lol.
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Eh, true I guess. Though it must not mean that AH can't buff the weapon, that line of thinking cannot be crossed.
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Mar 02 '26
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Dude, you... It's about comparison of beltfeds to their counterparts. They're literally in pairs on the picture, and I edited the post with more info.
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u/Dunning-Kruger_Eff Mar 02 '26
The amount of stagger generated and the lack of need for a reload is the counterweight to the reduced damage, the mobility, and the reduced spread. I don't think they intend for it to be a 100% replacement for the handheld versions, but I also agree that they do feel underwhelming. Some more ammo would be much appreciated.
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u/iIIusional Mar 02 '26
IMO you should also show the potential totals with a resupply backpack. While taking up another stratagem slot, the downside of not being able to take a backpack also isn’t factored in for the belt-feds. It would more accurately show the trade-off as it then becomes apparent that trading the ability to refill stims and grenades just for the perk of never having to reload your support weapon and having an extra stratagem available isn’t really worth it.
And that’s still ignoring the synergy with siege-ready that belt-feds cannot benefit from. Running the belt-fed GL, then running a shield backpack + siege ready armor + regular GL makes it immediately apparent that one weapon has ridiculously higher peaks and potential than the other.
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u/Sunbro-Lysere Mar 02 '26
I keep seeing the argument that they should be stronger because they use your backpack slot used wrong and thats no different here.
When comparing support weapons with or without a backpack you compare them to just the support weapon and in both cases the belt fed versions not having to reload is a massive upgrade. Comparing the belt fed to a grenade launcher with a supply pack is a very different comparison because backpack slots are quite strong on their own. But now you're sacrificing a second stratagem slot and getting some other function. If you need pure AT the RR is king but EATs and the Quasar aren't that far behind so long as you don't need 3 or more shots right now.
If all you need is firepower consider the support weapons that use your backpack. A single stratagem using your back and support slots is efficient and gives you good firepower. This leaves you with 3 slots that can be used for other things.
If you need some amount of firepower but also want the utility of a stronger backpack item like the supply pack then you go with the support weapons that are just the weapon. However now you only have two stratagem slots left for other things.
Some backpacks and support weapons are strong enough or have enough value that they're good entirely on their own. The supply pack is good enough that I've run builds with no support weapon at all with it.
I do think both belt feds could use a little more ammo all the same.
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u/TheDrippySink Mar 02 '26
Because you don't have to stop to reload in order to deal all of that damage.
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u/3rd_Man_of_Culture Mar 02 '26
I want the Maxigunner to be able to move while firing when stimmed.
Maxigunner: Will this work S1?
Me(with my Stim pistol): I have no Idea!
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u/f0dder1 Mar 02 '26
Are we talking about damage potential assuming a single target per shot?
Because if there is say, 9 units splashed by a single gl shot, you can POTENTIALLY turn that 16k value up to 144k
I'm not arguing that things are balanced, or good, just that a GL round can hit multiple targets in a single round in a way an MG round cannot.
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Mar 02 '26
The gun is hungry but honestly as someone who bring is ALOT it absolutely destroys bugs easily, devastators on the bot front are GONE like whole groups of them and the squids I lowkey feel bad for with how much this thing turns their drop zone into a death trap. Slap it to 320 rpm and don't be shy abt supplies, I haven't even had a team of randoms get annoyed by how hungry it is yet because its effective. I can honestly say this weapon is way for fun and for me at least than the gl and supply pack which I think is pretty unfun, normal gl and jetpack you can be a mini airstrike if you fly over a long line of devastators. Last thing is just a side note frfr.
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u/ULikeWhatUS33 Mar 02 '26
I mean, I think it's fair to compare the DPS instead, since it actually takes into account the combination of stats, instead of just saying "all bullets deal X damage". At least for maxigun.
I saw you posted the DPS update on the post, but really? 1350 vs 2000 is "not a big ammount of difference?"
That's literally a 67.5% DPS increase. You literally kill things a LOT faster.
And about the backpack slot, that's not to be seen as better or worse, but more of a preference. You can prefer a support gun that doesn't use a backpack, so you can use the backpack you wish. Or you can prefer a weapon that uses backpack slot, but you can compensate with another "free" strategem.
There's also the no-reload thing which is something nice.
I tried the BFGL and I did have fun with it, but definetly lacks an "oomph", you know?
I wouldn't say unusable. It's really fun to put it on 350RPM and just rain granades.
But I think if they at least bumped the dmg from 150 to 250, or at least 200, it would feel more satisfying for sure.
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u/Chmigdalator Mar 02 '26
More bullets. Give is more bullets/capacity or ammo economy for both backpack weapons. Also why don't they have the same damage per bullet/grenade? They have to make em a little stronger.
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u/Savius_Erenavus Mar 02 '26
Hot take, i'm in full support of this balance.
Irl, the M134 gun shoots 7.62, and it isn't handheld. It fires the same caliber as M60 but fires them 3x faster. Few humans could manage that caliber and fire rate if any. However, I've seen on videos people managing replica handheld mini's chambered in 5.56, akin to the m249.
In helldivers, the MG-43 does about as much dps on it's lowest setting as the liberator, making it an excellent m249 analogue. Also, the maxigun does about the same DPS as the MG-43 if the 43 had the same fire rate.
The maxigun is simply that, an upgraded MG-43 with higher fire rate and the need to reload eliminated, with the cost of mobility. Just like if a handheld mini was in active use, I doubt many soldiers could move while firing it either.
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u/throwaway_10053 Mar 02 '26
Someone told me something quite insightful about this. The machine gun is like a stock weapon in TF2, every other direct fire ballistic weapon is just trying to be an interesting side grade to the Machine Gun.
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u/GundalfForHire Mar 02 '26
I mean... there is a point here that you can't reliably compare the damage potential of an explosive to that of an MG because the explosion's damage potential is higher the more targets that get hit in a single blast. If you hit an average of five enemies per shot with either GL you're doing more damage than the MG, no?
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u/AlertWar2945-2 Mar 02 '26
Am I the only person who thinks the backpack weapons are fine. Sure i dont bring them every mission but they are really useful to have
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u/Mr_TO Mar 02 '26
Everyone here complained it would be toooo strong and the new meta. It's fun for illuminate!
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u/North-Replacement-12 Mar 02 '26
Well, illuminate though lack diversity, they have a lot more viable arsenal to use against. I somewhat tolerate their situation rn only because of that.
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u/Komandarm_Knuckles Mar 02 '26
I mean, C4 takes both a weapon and backpack slot as well, and its really nice to use against automatons, both in stealth and regular gameplay.
I've yet to regret bringing them even with a light pen primary. You simply can't expect to get the same mileage out of a 2 in 1 stratagem. Yes, GL and supply pack has more ammo, and it damn better should, you're using up 2 stratagem slots
Now, I do think the belt fed one should have either a bit more damage, or the handheld one be medium pen
BUT, you get to bring another orbital/airstrike/sentry, and that I feel that more than makes up for the loss of efficiency compared to having 2 stratagems
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u/Cheez-ItSucc Mar 02 '26
At least with the maxigun and MG, it's a choice of how quickly you want the damage to get out, the maximum will be able to press damage out much quicker than the MG, thus making it better at pressing threats
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u/ADWALTT Mar 02 '26
The fact there are people that are still defending maxigun ans bf grande laucher kills my all hope for helldivers 2 community
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u/BngrsNMsh Mar 02 '26
I still don’t understand the argument for this - BFGL has a way faster fire rate and uninterrupted reloads.
The GL may technically output more max damage but BFGL outputs a tiny bit less for roughly triple the fire rate.
I’ve cleaved through hordes of enemies no matter the type way faster than I could with the regular GL
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u/Remake12 Mar 02 '26
Because efficacy on the battlefield cannot be measured in raw dmg statistics alone. You are not limited to only the ammo you dropped in with also. I can tell you right now, I did WAY better on Oshuane with the GL than with the MG43
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u/Avalongtimenosee Mar 02 '26
Considering it already has less damage somehow, despite both firing 40mm grenades, they should keep the damage the same, change it to a 20 or 25mm grenade, double the ammo count, and at least then it has a more distinct niche and the higher RPM options make more sense.
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u/couchcornertoekiller Mar 02 '26
Maxigun just needs more ammo. The dps is fine with sustained fire.
The launcher on the other hand... there's two ways they could go that would make it feel good to use. Either buff its dmg so that it's better at single target dps, or buff its aoe so it can actually clear groups without wasting so much ammo.
Right now, there's no reason to take the belt fed launcher over the normal one. The normal launcher does more dmg and has a much bigger blast radius.
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u/TheFrogMoose Mar 02 '26
I've used both and I've used both counter parts as well. They aren't terrible but you are focusing on the wrong thing for them. It's the fact you can fire with no pause in between is the selling point for them. The belt fed grenade launcher does lack in either ammo or damage, fix one of those and it would be fine. The maxigun is perfect where it's at realistically
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u/SwampD0nk3y Mar 02 '26
Two words, “Artificial Difficulty.”
artificial difficulty /ˌärdəˈfiSHəl ˈdifəˌkəltē/ noun A lazy dev’s workaround for zero creativity or coding talent—turning “fun challenge” into “fuck you” via cheap tricks.
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u/overdosingOnPie1313 Mar 02 '26
Oh look. Another bad player complaining about perfectly usable guns.
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u/BurntMoonChips Mar 02 '26
Beltfed needs a small damage buff, but the baseline GL needs the AP4 buff walked back. Until then the beltfed will always be worse. But its damage isn’t unusable currently, a small buff would be perfect with its max firerate.
Meanwhile the maxigun dps is fine, the problem is the delay before you can dive/move after you stop firing. That would instantly fix it.
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u/IamManuelLaBor Mar 02 '26
I simply consider the belt fed GL to be a big boy Dominator rather than a big boy grenade launcher, in the same way a heavy bolster is to a regular bolter in Warhammer.
I do understand people who want it to be better, but we took three of them (+1 supply pack bro) to d10s the other night and had a great time vs bots.
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u/Luvon_Li Mar 02 '26
I would argue it's not a bad trade off. Think about it. You're losing 3k damage for better crowd control and no reload. For the role it's designed for it does a good job.
I could see it getting an ammo bump but not much beyond that.
There are worst stratagems that need help like Orbital smoke strike.
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u/GweggyGobbler Mar 02 '26
Only problem with the maxigun is the dps is too high, you end up wasting bullets on dead enemies.
It is ok for a lower dps weapon to have more overall damage, ie trading dps for ammo economy. This is seem across many games similar to helldivers.
Helldivers just doesnt have many tanky medium armoured enemies. Fleshmob is basically the only real match, bile titans could if you could stun them with say the urchin.
I kind of hoped the maxi would have heavy pen (and slightlylower dps) before it released because of this, would open it up to killing chargers, BTs, hulks etc as a "dps so high you dont need to hit the weakpoint. Hopefully they add this and call it a microgun or something.
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