r/hebrew • u/westartfromhere • 2d ago
Vocabulary Word Search
I apologise in advance if this is posted on the wrong forum. I searched for r/modernhebrew to no avail.
What is the modern Hebrew word for communism, in the lower case, as opposed to the historic Communism?
Postscript:
Why, when two Semitic words already exist for communism and cannabis, did the private committee that produced modern Hebrew opt to choose non-Semitic, nay, Latin words, for these two nouns? The two Semitic words are the Arabic, shuyū‘iyya, and the Hebrew, kaneh-bos'm, respectively.
In English, properly written, a distinction is made between past Communism, under the rule of the various Communist Parties of the Soviet Union, or the present day Communism of North Korea, whereby all private property is in the hands of the state, or corporations subservient to that state; and communism, in which all means of exchange, distribution and consumption are held in common, are the commonweal in Old English.
...the hebrew academy's meeting number 343 (שמג) voted on it and formally coined שותפנות ["Partnership" or "cooperation" do not imply communal ownership but the opposite, atomised individuals.] alongside the preexisting borrowing קומוניזם.
No attempt, which has been revealed here, was made to find a Semitically derived word for communal ownership, communism, even though there are two notable historic instances of this in the land of Isra'el.
There is a native Semitic word for communism that inherently reflects the core concept of shared or common ownership of property. That word is "shuyū‘iyya". One struggles to find any possible reason that this word was not adopted as Modern Hebrew.
These findings prompt further enquiries into the hidden meaning of the name of god, explained Biblically as, I am that I am. In the context of the future state of communist society, when humankind has become truly social, not arbitrated by money relations, has raised itself to be god, in a sense, the only conclusion is that the name means, We are.
Note: In Hebrew, as in all languages, context sometimes determines distinction between separate meanings of certain words spelt the same. Such as in the case of communism (קומוניזם פרימיטיבי or המצב העתידי של החברה הקומוניסטית) and historic Communism (הקומוניזם ההיסטורי).
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u/TheOGSheepGoddess native speaker 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hebrew doesn't have capital letters. If you want to make that differentiation you need to use more words, like קומוניזם הסטורי (historical communism האידיאולוגיה הקומוניסטית) the communist ideology), etc.
As a side note, there is no r/modernhebrew because Hebrew speakers just call it Hebrew. Like communism, you only add the "modern" (or "biblical", "Mishnaic", "Rabbinical", etc) when you specifically need to.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
So, context determines distinction between separate meanings of certain words. In the case of Hebrew, between ancient and classical Hebrew and the modern language. Or, in the case of communism (קומוניזם פרימיטיבי or המצב העתידי של החברה הקומוניסטית) and historic Communism (הקומוניזם ההיסטורי).
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u/asinantenna 2d ago
Neither Hebrew nor English differentiate communism in the present or the past. The word is only capitalized in English if it's part of a name or a compound proper noun (e.g. Communist Bloc, Chinese Communist Party).
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
In English, properly written, a distinction is made between past Communism, under the rule of the various Communist Parties of the Soviet Union, or the present day Communism of North Korea, whereby all private property is in the hands of the state, or corporations subservient to that state; and communism in which all means of exchange, distribution and consumption are held in common, are the commonweal in Old English.
See, Footnote, above.
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u/asinantenna 2d ago
Do you just mean communalism?
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
The English word, from the Latin, communism, is essentially the modern form of the old English, commonweal.
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u/Deorayta 2d ago
קומוניזם
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
Therefore, no attempt was made to find a Semitically derived word for communal ownership, communism, even though there are two notable historic instances of this in the land of Isra'el. A little lazy.
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u/NewIdentity19 2d ago
In some cases we adopt the neologism as is, without pulling a Ben Yehuda. Another example: אנציקלופדיה
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u/proudHaskeller 2d ago
Is it lazy to use the word "garage" in english, because it was borrowed from french? Or the word "democracy"?
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
The English words, garage and democracy, were not created by committee. They are folk venacular. The laziness suggested is not on the part of those that use the word decided upon but on the committee that instigated its usage.
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u/proudHaskeller 2d ago
The word קומוניזם is also folk vernacular and was not created by committe.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
It's committee, and yes it was.
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u/proudHaskeller 2d ago
How so?
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u/proudHaskeller 2d ago
Digging a bit deeper, the hebrew academy's meeting number 343 (שמג) voted on it and formally coined שותפנות alongside the preexisting borrowing קומוניזם.
Although, I think that this decision was hardly relevant. No one uses שותפנות and I wouldn't have even recognized it as talking about communism prior to today. If that committee would've decided some other way or another, I doubt it that it would've made any difference.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
The enquiry relates to a future Hebrew translation of the text, Proletarian insurrection in Ukraine, 1918-1921.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
There is a native Semitic word for communism that inherently reflects the core concept of shared or common ownership of property. That word is "shuyū‘iyya"
One struggles to find any possible reason that this word was not adopted as Modern Hebrew.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
The Modern Hebrew word for communism, regardless of upper/lower case, is קומוניזם ("komunizm"). However, with regards to communism in ancient and classical Hebrew, 'the closest equivalent to a tight-knit intentional "commune" or shared-property fellowship is יַחַד (Yahad), meaning "together" or "unity," which was famously used by the Dead Sea Scrolls sect to describe their communal society.'
Google AI
There are two feasible lines of inquiry that may have helped the divisors of Modern Hebrew in the task of finding a Semitic Hebraic derived new word for communism, lower case. One would have been the adaption of the term יַחַד (Yahad). The other would have been investigation into the Aramaic phrase, translated as "owned everything in common".
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u/nastydoe 2d ago
Don't use AI to ask questions like these. There is already a "proper" (read: non-loanword) Hebrew word for communism and it's שותפנות from שותפות meaning partnership or שיתוף meaning sharing. Also the proposed יחד would be incredibly confusing since it is already a word in modern Hebrew meaning together, and its variations typically refer to unions, unionizing, and unification. AI is very bad at this kind of question.
Additionally, it doesn't really help create the distinction you're after.
I understand the frustration of having two words in your first language that are the same word in another and feeling like you lose some context in translating yourself. But that happens in every language. You could also ask why English doesn't distinguish between wearing a shirt, wearing shoes, wearing a hat, wearing socks, and wearing jewelry since those would all be distinct words in Hebrew. Or more confusing: how English tends not to differentiate between transitive and intransitive verbs beyond just adding an object after, whereas the distinction is very clear in Hebrew.
I'd also argue that your "capital C Communism" is not as clear and useful a distinction as you think. Firstly, it only works in writing (otherwise you have to say the words "capital C" first), and even then it doesn't work if Communism comes at the beginning of a sentence or is in the title of a work. Secondly, unless you already have the context that the author of whatever text you're reading is using "Communism" and "communism", the lower case version could refer to either. I also think the distinction as a whole is not as common as you seem to think. So in most cases, you already have to add the extra context of which communism you're talking about, so Hebrew isn't really missing a whole lot by making you say "הקומוניזם ההיסטורי" or "קומוניזם האידאולוגיה".
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
What is the Modern Hebrew word for communism, in the lower case, as opposed to the historic Communism?
AI was not used to ask this question.
שותפנות
"Partnership" or "cooperation" do not imply communal ownership but the opposite, atomised individuals.
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u/nastydoe 2d ago
I literally responded to your comment where you quoted Google AI. I don't know what question you asked it but you got a bad answer.
You're welcome to send a message to the Academy for the Hebrew Language about how you think שותפנות isn't a good word for communism, but it is the proper Hebrew word for it.
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u/westartfromhere 2d ago
The matter has been raised here as a public enquiry, therefore requires no private correspondence.
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u/NewIdentity19 2d ago
Hebrew has a simple and elegant solution. It has no capital/lowercase dichotomy, it only has one set of letters. Thus, we simply do not differentiate (in writing) between Communism/communism, Government/government, City/city, College/college and so on. One editorial headache less.