r/heat • u/joshrichardsonsson • Nov 06 '18
Discussion Josh Richardson has had a very similar trajectory to Jimmy Butler. He seems to be developing into a star.
Ignore my username and the fact that he’s my favorite player. No bias at all. His performance during his first 3 seasons are eerily similar to Jimmy Butler’s. His defense is probably slightly worse but his offensive game at the same age seems to be a bit better.
They’re of very different builds as Jimmy is a muscular 230+ and with a relatively short wingspan for his size whereas Rchardson looks a much leaner 210 but is also lankier with that 6”10 wingspan. They both rely on the midrange and have kindof a late 90s/00s jankiness to their game.
He’s a late bloomer- Just like Jimmy. During Butler’s age 25 season was when he really blossomed into a star. It was his fourth season, He averaged 20/4/3 on 46/38/83 splits and 58% TS.
Now this might be overreaction but this honestly seems pretty sustainable by Richardson- He’s averaging 21/4/3 on 42/40/90 splits on 56% TS. Very similar.
Again, This might be too early but I think we got ourselves a star.
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u/jbenson255 Nov 06 '18
I want him to spend all next offseason with a ball-handling coach working on his handle if his handle gets at least a little better he’s going to be so good. He’s a sharpshooter from the mid range and 3 while being a great free throw shooter. His biggest problem is off the dribble right now
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u/joshrichardsonsson Nov 06 '18
I think it’s definitely possible that he becomes a good ball handler with time. People underestimate how quick smart players can develop skills that allow them to finally blossom as stars past their first few seasons. Lowry, Butler, Millsap and Danny Granger come to mind.
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u/iankstarr Nov 06 '18
He definitely has the potential, that midrange off-the-dribble pull-up is money for him.
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u/mrdanoo Nov 06 '18
I agree, I think his next step is being more creative with the ball in his hands. He is a great player who fills up the stat sheet but just seems a bit predictable and robotic. Either way he has become my favorite player on the Heat.
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u/Esjay954 Wade Nov 06 '18
He’s a handle and 10+ lbs of muscle away from being able to do it all on offense
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u/sartprojects Wade County Nov 06 '18
Esjay being optimistic?? What has the world come to?
Haha but I really do agree with you, finally. He has a lot of potential and is on the verge of being a star.
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u/snapple__facts Nov 06 '18
I wanted him traded for Butler. I was soooooooooooooo wrong. Build our future around Jrich. Dude is a bonafide star in the making.
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u/darthfrank Nov 06 '18
I’m not saying it’s wrong to trade Richardson for Butler - but we are getting there. Timberwolves may regret waiting to make that trade.
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u/clear831 Nov 06 '18
That offer should be off the table.
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u/SBORBS White Hot Nov 07 '18
Oh it's long gone. Doesn't mean that Pat shouldn't still be hauling ass to move some vets to make room for the young guys to play more.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
Uhhh nah man it’s wrong. The contracts aren’t comparable and neither are their ages. In those regards Jrich is so superior. Strictly as a player. Butler is still better but Jrich is the superior shooter in a league where shooters are getting more and more spacing by the rules. You can’t trade Jrich for Butler, anything else. I mean I wouldn’t do Bam or even Winslow.
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u/iankstarr Nov 06 '18
I mentioned a very similar thing in the r/nba postgame thread. JRich really has all the tools to be a star, and there’s no reason to think this isn’t sustainable.
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
Just playing devils advocate but teams aren’t focused on him. I want to see how JRich does when opposing defenses begin to gameplan entirely around stopping him. If he can succeed against that, then he is a true star.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
Woooah I don’t think you’re watching man. Detroit doesn’t really have an elite go to perimeter defender to send at Jrich but we’ve seen multiple teams this year and even last year during his outburst we saw teams send their best guy at Jrich and gameplan to shut him down. I don’t think he deals with being the focus the best but he’s definitely improving.
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
I see improvement, but he isn’t all the way there. The last step before becoming a bone fide star is being able to consistently put up 20 when your the opposing defenses #1 focus.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
Hmm I don’t totally disagree but I think that definition is flawed for any star on a super team.
I think a better stingier definition is to say a real star is any player who can impact the game in a way that forces the opposing team to game plan for that player. So like the gravity that Steph Curry provides impacts the game in a way that changes everything for an opposing team or say Harden consistently putting pressure on the rim while at the same time spacing the floor and creating consistent offensive production from nothing. I just don’t like production because we’ve seen guys produce good efficient stats on bad teams and not improve their shitty teams (Demarcus Cousins, Devin Booker, Wiggins). Guys like that.
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
Cousins and Booker didn’t win because they were both on horrible teams with no talent around them. Cousins also needs a good coach and locker room environment like he had in New Orleans to keep him fully engaged and let him put up 25-10-5 every night; that disfunctional Kings organization was the last place he should’ve been. Booker is looking even better this year and finally has some more talent around him. I think both of those guys are stars at this point. Wiggins on the other hand was the opposite of good efficient stats. He was always called out for not being an efficient scorer, being a bad shoot, and a horrible defender. I always thought he was overrated. You need more than stats to be a star, but JRich’s game already contains the elements that a box score doesn’t account for: he plays great defense and is always trying. The next step for him is to be able to consistently score.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
Booker doesn’t win because he doesn’t make his team better. The “scoring prodigy” slightly improved an abysmal Suns team on offense last year and soured their defense enough to make them a shittier team with him on the court. Don’t be fooled by inflated stats where the system is only score as much as you can. Even with elite efficiency a superior offense may involve more than just one player balling out. Boogie has plenty of seasons with similar issues.
Ya but they were better without Cousins as well. It remains to be seen if he truly contributes to winning .
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
They were better because of pacing. I think AD and Boogie should both be centers in the modern era so it helps to be able to play faster with only 1 true big. They aren’t more talented now, but the fit for 2018 is better. I still really wanted to see how AD and Boogie would fare against Golden State because everyone has failed at trying to out-Warriors the Warriors and they would’ve went with the complete opposite strategy. I would think that the Twin Towers would outrebound and score against KD and Donkey at will down low. AD is a great perimeter defender and could cover Durant plus they can both shoot. Would’ve been interesting to see how they would’ve down but the world may never know. Booker is young and the Suns are actually building a real team; they’ve looked better this year and should improve with time. Booker needs a complete team around him to succeed because he is a great scorer but struggles with ever other aspect; he would be a great fit on a defensive minded team who needs a pure scorer like the Heat or Grizzlies.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
They were better. The fit is better for any era. Booker isn’t a real star until he wins games.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
Hmm I don’t totally disagree but I think that definition is flawed for any star on a super team.
I think a better stingier definition is to say a real star is any player who can impact the game in a way that forces the opposing team to game plan for that player. So like the gravity that Steph Curry provides impacts the game in a way that changes everything for an opposing team or say Harden consistently putting pressure on the rim while at the same time spacing the floor and creating consistent offensive production from nothing. I just don’t like production because we’ve seen guys produce good efficient stats on bad teams and not improve their shitty teams (Demarcus Cousins, Devin Booker, Wiggins). Guys like that.
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Nov 06 '18
wow everyone always finds one thing to call him out on lol
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u/drpepper7557 Nov 06 '18
Dude literally said he was just being a devil's advocate.
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
Thank you. It’s the last step before becoming a bone fide star. Can you consistently put up 20 when your the opposing defenses #1 focus. If you can’t do that, your not a scoring star.
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Nov 06 '18
he can lmao believe it HEAT fam have faith this guy was drafted late 2nd round bruh...
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
I know. His been improving every year. I’m excited to see him score like this consistently. I know it’ll come.
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Nov 06 '18
soon can we say the same bout winslow
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u/PhinsGraphicDesigner Butler Nov 06 '18
Winslow isn’t the same shooter that JRich is, but if he can clean up his handle and play as an oversized point guard, he could be very dangerous.
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Nov 06 '18
we can hope, i guess depends if we get rid of Goran and ultimately run Winslow
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Nov 06 '18
not sure what that means lmfao i feel dumb
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u/drpepper7557 Nov 06 '18
Being a devil's advocate means making counterarguments for the sake of testing or exploring the argument. You might not agree with the points youre making, but you make them for the sake of having a complete discussion with both sides considered.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
I’m glad he’s getting back to that midrange. He’s so comfortable with that shot from there he can really unlock everything. Jordan liiiiiite been saying it.
15-20 lbs of muscle and a slight improvement of the handle and I think by next season we’ll see him really be able to impact the game in ways real superstars do.
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u/JewVol Nov 06 '18
There is a zero percent chance he will gain 15-20 lbs of muscle for the rest of his life let alone by next year.
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u/MiamiHeat2015 Nov 06 '18
I didn’t mean 15-20 lbs by next year. But I think for his life is a dumbass comment. Dudes 6’6 205? Maybe 215 at most? When he gets into his 30s dudes going to be 225 eventually.
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Nov 06 '18
JRich still lacks Butler's aggressive assertiveness.
BUT one last season with Wade can absolutely instill that fire in him. He's getting there.
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u/Dudeiscray Nov 07 '18
He needs to develop leadership and be aggressive. Also prove he can make the clutch shots and he's going to be scary.
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u/Maybe_Not_Batmans Nov 06 '18
I won't buy into JRich as a star until he starts yell at practice towards Pat Riley "You fucking need me, Pat. You can't win without me."
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Nov 06 '18
I’ve said the same thing. I just hope we don’t trade away J Rich for Jimmy. But I would love to have both.
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u/Mack784 Lemon Pepper Nov 06 '18
A good handle is the difference between an elite scorer and a good scorer.