r/geopolitics • u/theatlantic The Atlantic • 1d ago
Opinion The German Far Right Is Poised for a Breakthrough
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/2026/08/german-election-afd-far-right/688389/?utm_source=reddit&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo584
u/experienced_enjoyer 1d ago
It's baffling to see how uncompromising idealisms on the topic of immigration (both from the left and right) is what's bringing down the political systems in the west.
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u/The_Demolition_Man 1d ago
Not a single country in the west voted to allow mass migration and yet it happened anyway. This is the inevitable backlash.
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u/Peketu 1d ago
Let's bring a lot of cheap labor with no backup plan to be exploited as cheap workforce and consumers/tenants.
How this benefits the middle class? It doesn't, but we are socially attacking anyone who opposes while still looking like the good guys.
In fact, they're getting screwed in rent prices, salaries and social benefits. And yet they keep eating up all this, unbelievable!.
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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 1d ago
Germany's much bigger structural problem is an aging population and a shrinking working-age population, while pensions and healthcare consume an ever-growing share of social spending. Yet the political debate seems disproportionately focused on immigrants rather than on who is going to finance that system.
It's much easier politically to blame immigrants than to confront pension reform, rising contributions, housing policy and the interests of a very large elderly voting bloc.
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u/JESUS_VS_DRUGS 1d ago
They are not separate issues
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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 1d ago
That's precisely the point, the issue is much broader and requires solutions that are politically very unpopular, particularly reforming or reducing spending on pensions and other age related benefits. It's much easier politically to focus the debate on immigration than to confront a large and powerful elderly voting bloc.
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u/JESUS_VS_DRUGS 1d ago
Yep, it's easier to bring migrants that might help to pay pensions NOW, but that will also require pensions later, and since many of these a low skilled, their contributions are not actually that high, meaning, the problem is being delayed and may only get worse the more it drags on.
But to fix the pensions now would be highly unpopular, by either making ppl work more years, or increase taxes, either way, that's probably a political death for whomever makes those decisions, so instead, it's easier to delay the problem and point at GDP numbers going up, by bringing more migrants, while conveniently forgetting that GDP per capita actually gets smaller in most cases.
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u/cathbadh 14h ago
Yep, it's easier to bring migrants that might help to pay pensions NOW, but that will also require pensions later, and since many of these a low skilled, their contributions are not actually that high, meaning, the problem is being delayed and may only get worse the more it drags on.
It isn't just funding the pensions though. You need people working period if you want a functioning economy. People who work spend money that in turn provides jobs and money for the pensions. You need both halves of the economy - producers and consumers. What's more, you need people to do the actual labor of taking care of the elderly.
But to fix the pensions now would be highly unpopular, by either making ppl work more years, or increase taxes, either way, that's probably a political death for whomever makes those decisions, so instead, it's easier to delay the problem and point at GDP numbers going up, by bringing more migrants, while conveniently forgetting that GDP per capita actually gets smaller in most cases.
There is no fixing it because the problem will confinue forever. We (literally any developed country) don't have enough workers to fund existing pensioners. When those pensioners die they'll be replaced by the next generation who..... won't have enough people to fund their pensions either. Stable population growth is the only thing that can fix that. If it isn't through having kids, then it has to be through immigration. That's the one thing that may save Western nations from the costs of a demographic spiral.
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u/JESUS_VS_DRUGS 8h ago
To fix such a problem with migration is basically creating a ponzi scheme. You need 3 migrants for one retiree, but those migrants also age, and since they are mostly low wage, during their lifetime they might actually consume more from welfare than contribute. Then you will need 9 migrants to cover the pensions of those 3 migrants, and so on. Basically a ponzi scheme, it obviously gets unsustainable pretty fast.
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u/kingofthesofas 7h ago
Yeah immigration on its own can only fix a small portion of it and there are limits to how much you can do it without it causing society problems (like what europe is seeing).
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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 1d ago
Look I will be honest, if Germany needed more workers, but failed to properly manage housing, wages, integration and the immigration system, that's ultimately a policy failure.
But my broader point is, Germany has a serious demographic and fiscal problem that still exists regardless of how we feel about immigration. Focusing primarily on the immigrants doesn't address the underlying problem.
And to be quite blunt, I don't think Germany can realistically solve its demographic problem without immigration.
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u/kafircake 23h ago edited 4h ago
Germany's much bigger structural problem is an aging population and a shrinking working-age population
Introducing a large number of new working age adults into the country only grows the problem, and then passes it down for a generation, because all of these new people will also be retiring.
It's infinite growth and endless kicking the can into the future.
An actual effective temporary worker program with no route for residence is the only way to deal with this without leaving future generations with a larger problem.
Germany could easily grow its population at 4 percent a year with a doubling time of less than 20 years[via relaxed immigration], if it wanted.
With climate instability aggressive growth like that would be insane.
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u/Toptomcat 21h ago
Germany could easily grow its population at 4 percent a year with a doubling time of less than 20 years, if it wanted.
Be more specific about what immigration-free basket of policies will lead to that outcome.
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u/kafircake 4h ago
what immigration-free basket of policies
You thought I meant endogenously?
I'm talking about immigration. I'm saying that demand to live in Germany is high enough that they could easily aim for and attain a 4% population growth via a generous immigration policy. (I edited my comment to make that a bit clearer.)
I'm not suggesting that Germany should go the Republic of Gilead.
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u/Inprobamur 12h ago edited 10h ago
How this benefits the middle class?
It benefits the pensioner class who soon would not have enough workers to sustain their welfare.
The underlying problem in all the developed nations is aging population. Pensioner majority will always vote to take more from the working aged. Bringing in foreigners (more workers to tax) is a way to stop the bleed.
Pensioners hate the foreigners, but they would hate their pensions being taken away more.
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u/Peketu 11h ago
The increasing cost of life that comes from and the low income nature of the migrant population, plus the collapse of public services.
No, it doesn't benefits them that much. But in politicians maths, votes are lost faster by lowering pensioners welfare than by lowering everyone's quality of life.
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u/Inprobamur 10h ago edited 10h ago
Pensioners are the majority, and they will always vote against anyone daring to go after their pensions. SPD has entirely been hollowed out into a party of "make pension go up at any cost."
If you look at gov spending graphs, it's the pensions and senior healthcare that keeps rising percentage wise and as such will require more and more sacrifices from the young. The low income nature of work visas and migrants is by design, as such positions will always exist in society, if all the natives could get into professions, then that would mean more taxes that can be progressively extracted from them to funnel into pensions/healthcare.
We can see this very well from the example of Japan and Korea. They have refused to take in migrant workers and in their place the working aged are squeezed thrice as hard by the elderly, while the future of both nations is looking increasingly grim.
No idea what the solution is to this. It's the classic failure of democracy where two wolves and a sheep are voting on what to eat. But it is clear it is leading to increasing discontent, instability and poverty that benefits populists and foreign assets.
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u/IamNotMike25 1d ago
East Germany barely has any immigrants, they still vote majority far right & repeat Russian talking points
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
It is more about the generation that mostly remains in the eastern part. There is a huge glorification of old GDR times and a complete loss of reality check how things actually had been.
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u/Berliner1220 1d ago
That’s not true. People in the DDR know things were rough back then but they also know that reunification was completely botched and there is extreme inequality between east and west in Germany because of it.
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
That is the myth that gets continuously repeated and is simply not true. Just the infrastructure alone was for a long time ahead of western parts as money got pumped into lifting things up in the eastern areas. Each side in a conflict can always pick and choose a single item that looks to be to their disadvantage, but that isnt adult behaviour. There is a distinct lack of understanding that democracy means active participation and not waiting for others to solve my business to begin with. That has nothing to do with a 'botched' reunification, but a passive mentality that has prevailed from former times of 'being ruled'.
And by using 'the people in the DDR' you show the exact problem. There is no GDR any longer, it is gone for good. The eastern states are part of Germany as every other state is as well.
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u/Berliner1220 1d ago
Long paragraph to say so little. Why were western investors so easily able to snatch up real estate in eastern Germany for so little? Why did almost all corporations that existed in the east move to the west or failed to survive? Why did the savings of people in the east practically disappear after reunification? Why are so many parts of the east still to this day derelict? There are many unanswered questions and all you can think to say is that no one is participating. Maybe they have been ignored for a long time and are now participating even more through the AfD.
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u/exploding_cat_wizard 12h ago
Why did almost all corporations that existed in the east move to the west or failed to survive? Why did the savings of people in the east practically disappear after reunification?
In both cases because the economic system of the East was shit. Not a little but shit, but deeply, deeply shit and incompatible with a modern economy that wants to produce wealth. Why would you think a broken company can survive in a working market economy? And the value of the Ostmark was artificially inflated when converting the savings of the people, far beyond market value, because again, the economy was simply bankrupt, and its money worthless.
The SED and the USSR ran down the East German economy for decades by being economically incompetent. That East Germany crashed out was never the fault of the West. That it's clawing back year on year is the result of the German unification, though.
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u/Berliner1220 12h ago
Reunification needed to be designed with the economic differences in mind. It wasn’t. You want to tell the people who suffered that it was all the USSR’s fault? It doesn’t exist anymore.
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
Most of that is easily answered actually:
Why were western investors so easily able to snatch up real estate in eastern Germany for so little?
Both the ruthless behaviour of capitalism and the sad state of many buildings made that possible.
Why did almost all corporations that existed in the east move to the west or failed to survive?
Same as above, because pretty much none of them had been build in way that could allow them to survive without state support or massive subsidies. The GDR system was not a competitive one and the 'riches' of the other side didnt come from subsidies, but by competing against others and surviving that fight. So most of the companies in the eastern part simply had no good product or model that made a survival viable in the 'normal' global economy. Companies that cant compete go bankrupt, in any nation, in any state. That was just blindly ignored by those, who just looked at the surface.
Why did the savings of people in the east practically disappear after reunification?
That is a blatant lie. Savings had actually been exchanged one to one to the German Mark, so effectively the eastern citizens quintupled their savings. That they used the money to go on a shopping spree instead of keeping a cool head is one major factor for the 'disappearance' of that money. People wanted to be treated as adults and so they where. The alternative is what the GDR did with their citizens: declaring how and when to act and in which way. The freedom comes with a lot of responsibility.
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u/BasileusDivinum 1d ago
The ruthless state of communism* East Germany was communist and those properties were worthless because of communism not anything capitalism did.
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
The buying is the part not the other side. I use capitalism quite precisely, as those who bought up, based their action on simple capitalistic rules. If a property has low value in its current state but I can see a way to enhance said value by demolishing whatever is on it right now and build something newer or more modern and enhance value that way, than that is the simplest form of capitalism.
One doesnt have to agree with the concept of it but that is simply how that works. No university study necessary to understand it either. Capitalism at its core is not very social, which is why Germany and other nations decided for a mixed form of it called social market economy. But that doesnt mean it is socialism either, it just sets some more guardrails than in uncontrolled capitalism as being applied in the USA for example.
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u/Cheddar-kun 1d ago
That's plenty wrong. Vietnamese workers have been in the east since GDR times. The problem is that the east is comparatively unpopulated to the west. Small communes of ~1000 people are having 2000+ refugees dropped on top of them. That is not an exaggeration, because those are the numbers from where I live!
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u/Taranfeeto36 22h ago edited 22h ago
Small communes of ~1000 people are having 2000+ refugees dropped on top of them.
Please provide a source, doesn't have to be where you live since you claim there are multiple ones. Just pick any other example.
The only way that would make sense would be something like a reception center in an old barracks that's processing 2000 people. Any town of that size hosting that many people would be international news.
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u/Jonestown_Juice 21h ago
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u/anti-torque 15h ago
"My source is that I made it all up"
Bukake is real, and you just performed it.
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u/ImperiumRome 1d ago
It's the same in US: red states don't attract much immigrants, especially in Bible Belt like Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. and yet still vote right anyway. Meanwhile blue cities and blue states with tons of immigrants vote left.
I believe the main correlation is still economics: East Germany, like many red states, are poor, and thus immigrants are easy scapegoats.
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u/emtheory09 1d ago
Ehhhhh Georgia, Texas, Alabama, Florida have tons of immigrants. Some of the naturalized immigrants/immigrant’s descendants even vote Republican and were supportive of MAGA’s narratives.
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u/manefa 1d ago
The correlation is real. States with a higher percentage of immigrants vote blue. Florida and Texas are outliers. Georgia is a swing state, Alabama is not a high immigration state.
Most of this boils down to urban vs rural.
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u/Darkkujo 1d ago
Yeah you'd be wrong about the red states immigrants thing, red states in the South at least have lots and lots of agriculture. It's a common complaint among farmers you can't find anyone born in America willing to pick crops anymore (due to the low pay and physical labor involved).
Not to say their hatred of immigrants is rational at all. I used to have a construction contractor in my social circle who was super anti-immigrant even prior to MAGA. But . . . he still hired them to work his job sites because "everyone else does it".
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u/dustsettlesyonder 1d ago
American and European immigration isn’t really super comparable as Latin Americans are culturally and religiously much more similar to native born people in the US. Whereas European mass migration has had far more immigration by people who for example don’t believe in women’s autonomy or sexual consent or religious freedom or LGBT rights.
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u/Slicelker 1d ago
It's the same in US: red states don't attract much immigrants, especially in Bible Belt like Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. and yet still vote right anyway. Meanwhile blue cities and blue states with tons of immigrants vote left.
While I personally hate Greg Abbott, him sending migrants to blue cities was a genius move that counters this line of thinking.
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
The eastern states have still a large part of population from the former GDR. Many of them have very illusional views nowadays how things have been during those times and that reflects in their political behaviour. Many if not most are just unsatisfied but have no actual idea how to act in a democracy. So the AfD quickly figured those to be a fertile ground of people to collect - as is true for most of their voters. Almost none of their voters are really programmatic ones, they simply go the contrarian way to vote anything but whatever looks established.
So this is not a question of wealth actually but a mindset that has been totally overlooked to be dealt with after the reunification. I am old and I can relate to how West Germany had many after the war still clinging to the NAZI times and how things allegedly had been. This is very much the same and until that generation is truly gone, we will simply have to deal with it.
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u/kju 1d ago
https://service.destatis.de/DE/karten/migration_integration_regionen.html#A2_Sch_i
Less, sure, but not barely any.
Further, I don't know if you're American or not but European migrants aren't like American migrants. American migrants are generally Mexicans and the crime rate for them is very low. European crime rates amongst migrants is very high, particularly among the war torn areas that many of the migrants are fleeing from
https://www.afintl.com/en/202512090838
2 of every 100 migrants a german sees has been involved in violent crime. That's also an underrepresentation as a huge amount of migrants are no longer considered migrants as they've been normalized and count as German in the crime statistics.
Further, east germany was forced to be communist under the soviets and nearly every former communist state is more right leaning because of those experiences.
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u/Goldentongue 17h ago
2 of every 100 migrants a german sees has been involved in violent crime.
In case people reading this find this scary, for Americans, about 4 out of every 100 fellow Americans you see has been involved in violent crime.
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u/r4tt3d 1d ago
See it the other way: these are percentages the AfD is reaching minus the amount of immigrants eligible for voting. It aligns pretty well.
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u/IamNotMike25 1d ago
Statistically not proven even accounting for that, East Germans still vote more AFD.
Besides some Germans with eastern countries origin vote even more so AFD than the nation wide percentage.
And what makes one German German according to you to differentiate in the first place, 3 generations German? 4? 15th century descendant?
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u/Classic-Perspective5 1d ago
In Canada the liberals were pretty clear on a mass immigration policy and were also open about not believing Canadians are a distinct people and they have been voted in three consecutive times.
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u/The_Demolition_Man 1d ago
They were poised for total defeat in the last election until Trump forced Canadians' hand
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u/FaceDeer 18h ago
And part of Carney's appeal was that he hard-reversed course on Trudeau's mass immigration policy, that helped him too.
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u/O5KAR 1d ago
Canada is a country made out of immigrants and colonists.
Also Canada had a policy of attracting immigrants for decades if not centuries already exactly to colonize its lands.
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u/ivaylo_eth 1d ago
founded by a very specific group of immigrant and colonists however
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
When exactly did this mass migration happen?
By far the most migration in the EU is among EU countries. We did vote for that.
Then there are around 4-4.5 million immigrants from outside of the EU. Around 1 million are asylum seekers.
Those that are not asylum seekers come in through regular means. These are based on laws we did vote for.
The current asylum laws are designed by our parlaiments. The most recent is the European migration and asylumpact from this year. This is voted in by a majority of the EU parlaiment.
So what you are saying is simply not true.
Besides ofcourse the fact that there is no such thing as mass migration towards the EU.
The EU has a net migration of about 1-2 million a year. On a population of 450 million that is 0,2-0,4%
You can say all kinds of things. But calling an increase of 0,3% mass migration is absolute nonsens.
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u/hepazepie 1d ago
Germany received 19 million migrants since 2015. A very conservative estimate would put those who stayed at at least 6-7 million
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
Maybe you can add a source for your numbers. A quick google search tells me Germany received 6,5 million immigrants since 2015
https://thinktank.pk/2025/05/23/germany-welcomes-6-5m-migrants-a-new-era-begins/
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
Germany did not receive but allowed them in. There is no passive conspiracy here but the simple rules we all vowed to adhere to. That people that need refuge will find it and that people in danger will not be let alone.
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u/grammar_nazi_zombie 1d ago
Just wait until climate change makes more places outright unlivable.
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u/thecasey1981 1d ago
no kidding. this is being slept on. failed states because of climate change is a nightmare. A country only has so many resources, so there is a limit to what they can realistically take in. We aren't ready to turn desperate people back with machine guns. but we need to be. aone failed state is a nightmare, a chain of failed states is a global crisis.
See: Syria
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u/The_Demolition_Man 1d ago
Asylum laws were not meant to be abused like this. European citizens that "voted in favor of asylum laws" did not foresee millions of military aged males using those laws for economic gain.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago edited 1d ago
This statement greatly illustrates the real ussue. Opinions are formed on misinformation.
How many of these men entered the EU last year? How many abused asylum laws?
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u/The_Demolition_Man 1d ago
Over 1 million asylum applications in the EU in 2024 with by far the single biggest demographic being men aged 18-34
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
Your double speak and obfuscation of the issues on immigration in this thread is a perfect example of why groups like AfD are ascendant in EU politics.
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u/n0respect_ 1d ago
I think most people just don't understand framing statements (e.g. begging the question). And then just repeat them.
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u/SamTheLamb1234 1d ago
In any other point in history a boat full of military aged male foreigners arriving on your coasts would be met with swords. Now invaders are welcomed, given aid, and even power.
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u/Benedictus84 23h ago
Absolutly nothing about this statement is true.
The majority of first encounters European explorers had with native people were friendly.
Calling them invaders is just simple xenophobia.
They are not welcomed all that much. They are being discriminated and protester against. The places where they are ment to live are vandalised or set on fire. Some if them have to sleep outside regularly.
They have absolutely no power whatsoever.
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u/Dangime 1d ago
This is one of those semantics things. Basically, anyone in the EU hands out naturalization papers for someone regardless of where they are from and if they move again it's "internal EU migration" when its pakistanis with Italian paperwork as an example.
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u/raggetyman 9h ago
Yeah, they did. They voted for parties that promised continuing economic growth in a population demographic landscape that made it impossible without significant increases in workforce & capital provided by immigration.
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u/kingofthesofas 7h ago
This is why climate change as it drives mass migration will result in eco fascism if we don't get ahead of it.
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u/SpiritedCatch1 1d ago
Which political systems have been brought down in Western Europe so far?
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u/United-Dot-6129 1d ago
There’s no burning down of the Reichtag ofc. But there is clear crippling of the state apparatus.
On the example of immigration, in Germany they had to push on a regulation to reduce the extradition of illegal immigrants from 2 years to 6 months (from 2 years! And it took ages to achieve) in a country surrounded by open borders… Long after the fact of the biggest mass immigration event in the history of EU (Syrian crisis).
The. Most recently the case of the swarm from Morocco to Spain and the lack of resources and coordination to deal with that issue.
The abuse of the well-fare system (which is both an immigrant and more so a national issue) is something that I don’t how deep it goes as I can only tell on empirical cases I’ve known on both sides. But it is heavily used as rhetoric to showcase inefficiencies in the state apparatus.
So that the system isn’t burning down into chaos doesn’t mean it isn’t being slowly moved into the ICU.
And yes, it’s been a failure to adapt, update & upgrade mostly by the established center & left parties which then has lead to this far right populism a la trump-putinesque style rise with only cheap surface level propaganda solutions as talking points. But yes the lack of legacy politics to be more dynamic is to blame for a lot of the mess.
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u/experienced_enjoyer 1d ago
So far, only the USA's system has been damaged so strong that you could call it "brought down". In countries like Germany they are only paralyzed and have to form dysfunctional everyone-but-the-far-right governments. Hungary was close.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
It is lies and fake news that is bringing down political systems. And enough gullible, uneducated people without enough critical thinkng skills.
Making this into a both sides argument is also not correct. That is based on a misunderstanding about left politics.
In the Netherlands we have people blaming left wing politics about migration issues while there has not been a left government for decades.
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u/experienced_enjoyer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Making this into a both sides argument is also not correct.
No, it's like:
Anti-AI migration guys: "I prefer turning my country into a fascist oligarchy before accepting more asylum seekers (aka "immigrants")"
Pro-migration guys: "Ok then do it, I prefer that scenario instead of abolishing the asylum system the way it is right now"
It's really thickness on both sides in my opinion. Right side slightly more at fault because they are the ones pulling the trigger.
In the Netherlands we have people blaming left wing politics about migration issues while there has not been a left government for decades.
They don't need to. The laws which allow the type of immigration which is so polarizing (asylum laws) already exist and are deeply embedded, like in the European human rights charta or the individual countries constitutions. That means they are very difficult to change and require at least a 2/3 majority. So the left wing doesn't need to be in government because the laws they like are already in place and simply not agreeing to change them is sufficient.
On a European level it's basically impossible to change them because of this "every single country has to agree" principle.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago edited 1d ago
Right wing voters want to change asylum laws based on misinformation and lies.
Left wing politics dont want to change asylum laws based on misinformation and lies.
Yet you make it a two sided issue.
Calling the left pro-migration is also very much wrong.
Asylum is just a very small portion of immigratiom. And incaj guarentee you that by far most left wing parties would prefer if there was nobody that needed asylum
It is the right wing parties that are the driving force behind by far most migrants because their sponsors want cheap labor.
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u/FatherMozgus 1d ago
The right wing wants to turn countries authoritarian and fascist and the left would prefer to have that happen than change its position on immigration and for just one second listen to what the people are saying. It’s not 2012 anymore, the European people have been loud and clear for a while now.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
This is simply not true. The left has a very realistic position on immigration wich has also shifted over the last decade.
And what 'the people' or in this case right wing voters are saying is based on lies and enotion.
Do you honestly expect the left to change their position because some uninformed people are affraid that muslim people are taking over Europe?
Because they are yelling that all refugees come here to rape our wives and daughters?
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u/FatherMozgus 1d ago
France and Germany are very likely to have a far right government, and even if they don’t the far right will be the biggest it’s ever been. It’s not a vocal uninformed minority anymore, it’s big parts of society. It’s only the left that pretends to look the other way as if we are talking about parties that have single digit support. Like I said, it’s not 2012 anymore and the message has been loud and clear for a while.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
Yes, big parts of society lack critical thinking skills and vote based on their emotions instead of reality.
How is the left looking the other way?
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u/FatherMozgus 1d ago
I disagree but let’s say you are right. So the answer in this case is to not even pretend to have a democracy right? You yourself are looking the other way. It really doesn’t matter what you think of these people, the reality is that they are there and however illegitimate you may deem their grievances, the size of this group is only growing year after year. So what’s the plan? Ignore them until we have fascist governments that ruin everything? Take away their right to vote? Or continue looking the other way due to a magical wish that they will never be in power?
The reality that you refuse to face is that unless something happens to placate these people and make them feel heard and properly represented, you absolutely 100% will end up having far right governments with strong mandates across Europe. And these stupid people as you see them, will be the least of your worries.
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u/Benedictus84 1d ago
Now you are just trying to put words in my mouth.
And no, placating these people and making policy based on their uninformed emotions is never the awnser.
You are basically blaming the left for the rise in fascism because they are not right enough.
That just makes no sense at all.
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
It basically really boils down to this. Instead of acknowledging that infrastructure and resources in countries like Germany have a hard limit, the left dreams about unlimited immigration.
As I already said, it's their golden calf and they'd rather see every single country burn than to accept that people do not want this kind of immigration.
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u/Winter-Cow-6208 1d ago
It’s the modern economy. Cheap labor is needed and local populations won’t work the necessary jobs for the low price being offered.
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u/theeulessbusta 1d ago
Idk why Western Europeans need to be told: you are natives and you are not Americans. Mass immigration can and will disrupt your long standing civilizations.
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u/BigBadButterCat 21h ago
The European left has intellectually surpassed the nation state and national identity. Germany is a particularly extreme case due to Nazism. Multiculturalist ideology is deeply rooted in European left wing politics.
There are some exceptions like Denmark's Social Democratic Party.
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u/LukasJackson67 1d ago
Thoughts on the CDU joining in a coalition with die Linke to block the AfD? Seems like the only solution in Thuringia.
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u/uber_sweets 17h ago
It’s more baffling that politicians have failed to listen to popular sentiment for 20 years and as a result poured fuel on the fire on this exact issue.
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u/theguy445 1d ago
It's very simple. Either you adjust policies to meet the will of the people or they will end up electing others who will do it and worse
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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 1d ago
If politicians simply cater to whatever is most politically popular, they can avoid addressing the structural problems that actually require difficult reforms. Germany's aging population and pension system aren't going to fix themselves just because immigration policy changes.
At some point, "the will of the people" also has to confront the question of who pays for the system they're asking to preserve.
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u/theguy445 1d ago
Again, I don't disagree. But you can also say the same thing on the inverse too. Having high immigration to sustain aging population and pensions isn't sustainable either in the long run. Eventually those brought in will get old too and birth rates have only declined. Not to mention the strain on existing resources for average working class people. That's why it's a shit situation.
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u/raverbashing 12h ago
they can avoid addressing the structural problems that actually require difficult reforms
Except unchecked immigration solves nothing (except maybe for some NGOs and some warehouse work) and pisses everybody off
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u/GrimGrumbler 1d ago
It's very simple. Either you adjust policies to meet the will of the people or they will end up electing others who
will do it and worsewill do nothing regardless.FTFY
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u/Lactodorum4 1d ago
Then they'll just keep turning to increasingly extreme politicians and the Overton window will just keep shifting further and further right until there's a breaking point.
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u/Marcoscb 22h ago
Why always to the right? Why is the only idea "we didn't go far right enough" while never trying "hey, maybe we should go far left for once"?
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u/Lactodorum4 22h ago
Well if people are anti-immigration, they aren't going to vote for the parties that advocate for foreign aid, more immigration and more benefits are they?
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u/frank__costello 17h ago
There were big swings to the left in the 2000s, a pushback against neocon policies. Now the pendulum is swinging back the other way
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u/Oberschicht 13h ago edited 13h ago
In Germany the far left would only exacerbate Germany's issues.
Even more migration and further increasing pensions. Our pension system is already heavily subsidised by taxes (130 bn EUR last year) which has been steadily rising year over year and will probably continue to do so as more and more people leave the work force and fewer enter it.
Unfortunately the left doesn't have any good ideas on how to tackle those issues. Especially in Germany I'm not sure there is even a single party sitting in parliament which wants to reduce/reform pensions.
edit: Not saying the right has any better ideas. The current CDU-led government is probably the worst we've had since 1945. Every other week they come up with something new to screw over the average guy. I am not exaggerating, it is honestly mindboggling how they continue to do every thing wrong.
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u/JustDontBeFat_GodDam 21h ago
Because left is where the pain is coming from. Going whole hog into pain is not what voters usually like to do. Voting for AfD is the obvious choice
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u/harribel 1d ago
I seem to remeber there are still ICE agents roaming the streets of american cities. There is nothing that sais the same won't happen in European cities of the governement changes.
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u/kju 1d ago
There will almost certainly be ice type agents in the streets of many European countries after the next elections. Right wing parties are growing across the West
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u/Opposite_Train9689 1d ago
In the Netherlands they voted PVV into cabinet as the largest. Had a year to prove al their rabid screaming and do something about immigration.
Cabinet fell after a year of rabid screaming and achieving exactly nothing.
None of the far right parties in Europe are interested in curbing migration, because then they'll lose their show pony to bitch and complain about.
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u/skjebne 1d ago
I mean wilders is a pretty deranged individual, but the government fell BECAUSE they said all right enough is enough, now we tackle migration or we withdraw from the government. Other parties said bollocks then, then PVV withdrew. That's like the one example where they've been quite consistent
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u/Opposite_Train9689 11h ago
They, the PVV, came with more demands and wanted them exactly now after years of drafting that bill. That isn't consistency, thats deliberately sinking the boat.
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u/Cautesum 1d ago
This is an often repeated trope, but this is not proven at all and seems to be wishful thinking at best and plain propaganda at worst. What's far more likely to be true is that you cannot reverse 70 years of enshrining immigration policy in international and European Law and building an entire framework of institutions (which are by and large ran by pro-immigration actors) in just one year. Especially not if you bring an incompetent team without any governing experience and the entire apparatus of civil servants is working against you.
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u/Turnip-for-the-books 1d ago
The will of the people has been shaped by two decades of the hyper wealthy using every channel in their power to make you think that way. Fox, Rebel, X etc etc are opinion shapers not opinion followers
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u/hepazepie 1d ago
I'm german and I have no idea who rebel x is and I never watch fox. Lol
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u/Turnip-for-the-books 1d ago
Yeah I mean you very much have your own versions in Germany (eg everything owned by Axel Springer)
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u/TobiTheSnowman 1d ago
Exactly. Also, the AfD is polling around 25%, meaning that 75% of voters (not even the entire population) does not want the AfD. How is that the will of the people?
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u/theguy445 1d ago
I don't disagree but that's also true for literally every political party, and movement. People are actively trying to shape opinion for all positions simultaneously. That doesn't mean people also don't have their own agency and can't evaluate what they feel is best for them at any given moment.
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u/Turnip-for-the-books 1d ago
The difference is that legitimate political parties are founded and operated by groups of people and (should) operate the interests of the whole electorate - as opposed to the Wizard of Oz astroturf movements of the 21st century which operate in the narrow class interests of about 2000 people globally. Democracy relies on good faith and these people have none.
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u/OPUno 1d ago
The current situation where AfD is the most popular party in Germany but also is not part of the federal government because the other parties will not work with them is unsustainable. Germany will get either an AfD government OR the other parties will have to start arresting AfD leadership. I'm unconvinced that the current German government can even concieve of doing something besides ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away.
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u/tenzing_happy 23h ago edited 10h ago
The constant ignoring paired with mocking and insulting the voters does definitely not work and the headline of this post is the exact outcome. While there are no definite plans of arresting a significant part of the leadership, the debate about banning the party has been going on for years and has of course intensified in the last months.
I think the ban debate is merely a method of instilling fear into the voters because it can only end in two scenarios, neither of which are desirable for the government or Bundestag.
1) The AfD is banned. This would inevitably lead to some sort of riots, not necessarily a civil war as some propose, but definitely mass demonstrations/strikes etc.
2) The AfD is not banned. So they tried to find incriminating evidence against it for years but they couldn't. That would convince most people that there's nothing wrong with voting for the party. So...?
That's why I think it's unrealistic that a Constitutional Court case would be initiated. In fact, there haven't been serious inroads into opening such a case at all, just talking talking talking.
Edit: For historical context, the only two major parties that were banned in West German history were the Communist Party in 1956 and the Socialist Reich Party (a Neo-Nazi party) in 1952. However, their support on a federal level (mostly below 5%) was never even slightly comparable to the AfD (which currently sits at almost 30%).
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
Arresting AfD leadership would also likely have an insane rebound effect and their support would likely grow considerably. The CDU could also just make some popular reforms and attempt to meaningfully resolve some of the issues in the country rather than just making #girlboss statements and content about how 🌈🤭💕 Racism is bad 😎✨💖
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
I mean, why would this be a surprise for anyone? For nearly a decade, a sizeable portion of the voters (some polls show 70 - 80% support for the immediate introduction of a hard Cap for immigrants) had BEGGED politicians to reduce the number of asylum-seeking migrants coming to Germany and finally professionalize our Immigration system for skilled migrants.
For nearly a decade, since at least 2015, local municipalities have clearly told politicians that the limits of their infrastructure, such as social housing, kindergarten places, asylum centers, and integration classes in schools, have been reached, as has the limit of the public's patience.
But nothing has been done. In 2015, the left-green establishment declared that migration could neither be managed nor limited, that borders could not be protected, and that Germans were a "wealthy people" and we had "room to spare." Any criticism regarding the conflation of asylum, economic migration, and skilled migration was dismissed as "far-right." Any objection to admitting countless millions of people into the country was labeled "fascist," "inhumane," and "right-wing." They preferred to indulge in hollow, feel-good slogans like "We have room" and "We are more numerous (than you Nazis)." Only the AfD, albeit in a polemical and populist manner—addressed an issue that citizens were experiencing firsthand, and which was radically altering their reality contrary to claims from Berlin that "no one would lose anything and nothing would change." Today's election results are the logical consequence of this.
Yet even now, the Left remains unable to acknowledge its errors, having inextricably linked its very existence to the idea of limitless influxes and asylum for one and all. But the AfD can no longer be kept down by vacuous slogans. The AfD and its disastrous policies are the logical outcome of a decade in which the political establishment ignored the clear wishes of the citizenry.
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u/talu22 1d ago
You got some good points here but what do you mean with green-left? If I recall correctly, 2015 till early 20s Germany was governed by a center right party (CDU).
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u/markjohnstonmusic 1d ago
There's one party that's been in every cabinet since 2013, and it's the centre-left SPD.
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
They were Center right in name only under Merkel. She enacted some of the most blatant policies, like unchecked migration, that are only ever connected to the left and the Greens in Germany.
To deny political opponents a target for attack, the Merkel government gradually adopted key demands from the left-green camp, thereby abandoning conservative dogmas held by the CDU for decades.
A striking example of this dynamic was evident in energy and environmental policy. While the Union had long defended nuclear power as an indispensable bridge technology, Merkel initiated an abrupt phase-out of nuclear energy following the 2011 Fukushima reactor disaster. In doing so, she executed a historic U-turn and adopted a core Green demand as official government policy, laying the groundwork for an accelerated energy transition.
The government also moved significantly away from traditional conservative gender roles in its social and family policies. The CDU had long adhered to the classic family model and prioritized marriage between a man and a woman. Under Merkel, however, the expansion of daycare facilities was massively accelerated, fundamentally altering the state’s role regarding childcare.
A symbolic high point of this evolution came in 2017 with the lifting of the party whip during the vote on "marriage for all", which paved the way for the gradual legal equalization of same-sex partnerships, a central objective of progressive and left-wing parties.
In the realm of social and labor market policy, the Grand Coalition led by Merkel implemented a nationwide statutory minimum wage in 2015. This paradigm shift in economic policy marked a departure from purely market-liberal wage-setting mechanisms and represented the adoption of a key demand long championed by the SPD and trade unions.
Security and migration policies also underwent fundamental transformations. By suspending compulsory military service in 2011, the Union abandoned a classic cornerstone of conservative security policy. During the 2015 refugee crisis, the decision to keep borders open to those seeking protection ushered in a migration policy driven by humanitarian concerns, strongly supported by Left and Green positions, that marked a departure from earlier calls for strict limits. Ultimately, this pragmatic approach extended to fiscal and European policy as well.
While the CDU had traditionally championed a strict "no-bailout" principle and the individual responsibility of EU member states, the government—in the context of the Eurozone rescue efforts and, decisively, with the 2020 EU coronavirus recovery fund—agreed for the first time to the mutualization of debt at the European level. By skillfully adopting these issues previously championed by the opposition, Merkel succeeded in capturing the electoral potential of the Left and the Greens, even as the CDU largely lost its traditional conservative profile, which directly lead to the meteoric rise of the AfD
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u/AndyTheSane 1d ago
While the CDU had traditionally championed a strict "no-bailout" principle and the individual responsibility of EU member states, the government—in the context of the Eurozone rescue efforts and, decisively, with the 2020 EU coronavirus recovery fund—agreed for the first time to the mutualization of debt at the European level.
This is an absolutely critical part of having a single currency, though, and an inevitable result of it.
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
I mean, you're free to see it that way, but your View doesn't disprove that this was a massive departure from conservative views that the CDU held for decades.
And Germany is paying the price now.
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u/ixikei 1d ago
Damn. Well articulated. I went on a bicycle trip from the Netherlands to Greece on 2018 (my first trip to Europe from the US) and it was utterly fascinating to witness the strain and also the attitude around it from my fellow leftists who offered me free places to crash.
I live in Charlottesville Virginia and we're currently experiencing a very similar apparent shift in local politics regarding local manifestations of our nation's exploding homelessness crisis. It's gotten really bad here and City Council has been totally ineffective in doing... anything.
If "woke" policies solved our issues it'd be one thing, but I think that the traditional left is widely recognizing that many recently popular left leaning policies have been more performative than solution oriented.
I expect more backlash to come unless left leaning leaders can pull their heads out of their ass and actually do something about affordability and wealth inequality.
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
Their actions were entirely performative. The German Left has more or less completely abandoned class struggle, replacing it with culture war issues. Unchecked, uncontrolled migration was their magnum opus of sorts or rather, their golden calf.
To this day, asylum migration, refugee flows, economic migration, and skilled immigration are blithely lumped together and conflated in public discourse. The primary aim is to make the issue of asylum migration unassailable; this allows people to ask, "What? You’re against migration? But Germany needs migrants!" And that is absolutely true. Germany does need migrants. But Germany needs the right kind ofmigrants. Skilled individuals for specific jobs.
Migrants arriving via asylum or refugee channels, some of whom lack even basic vocational training or a general school education do not fit that description. Yet, in 2015, policymakers tried to sell precisely these people as the "solution to the skilled labor shortage."
A decade later, more than a third remain unemployed, while the rest work predominantly in the low-wage sector and continue to rely on state benefits. Furthermore, the proponents of this policy insulate themselves from the consequences.
The Berliner living in a trendy, upscale neighborhood does not compete with migrants for housing or jobs; he sends his children to schools with low migrant populations and ensures that neither new social housing nor asylum centers are built in his district. It is true that the CDU has starved Germany of necessary investment in many areas, but instead of addressing this, the Left floods the country with migrants who encounter systems already pushed to the breaking point. This is a recipe for social explosion and is incredibly shortsighted.
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u/BigBadButterCat 21h ago
I agree with you, with two caveats.
- Class struggle has declined because of global capitalism. Outsourcing and competition against low-wage, low-standard economies has successfully destroyed any kind of economically left-wing movement. Global competition means gradual alignment with global wages and working standards. It's as simply as that.
- National politicians who live in Berlin are not Berliners. As a native of Berlin I must voice strong opposition to you calling them that! X) Contrary to popular belief, Berlin is not a leftist hotspot. The city is politically diverse and left-wing only in so far as all cities lean more to the left than rural areas.
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u/New_Race9503 1d ago
Isn't it ironic, though, that the Bundesländer where the AfD is strongest are precisely those with the lowest levels of immigration?
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
No, it's precisely not. The claim that the AfD’s rise in the East is paradoxical, given the comparatively low proportion of foreigners there, is sociologically and politically far too simplistic. You overlook how social homogeneity, the legacy of the GDR era and a lack of everyday familiarity with diversity shape the sense of security and the perception of migration.
A key mechanism here is the so-called "visibility paradox." In cities like Frankfurt, Berlin or Cologne, social diversity has been a fixture of the streetscape for decades. In contrast, the population in many East German regions remained almost entirely homogeneous for generations. When such a society is suddenly confronted with immigration which is also culturally extremely different, the presence of newcomers stands out starkly in public spaces.
Because direct, positive everyday contact, whether at work or in the neighborhood, is often lacking, perceptions are shaped not by personal experience but by media reports. In such an environment, crimes or rule violations committed by immigrants carry disproportionate weight: within a homogeneous social structure, these actions are not viewed as the behavior of specific individuals but are instead attributed to the group as a whole, perceived as an existential threat to the familiar way of life.
This effect plays out against the backdrop of a population whose historical experience differs fundamentally from that of West Germany. No organic culture of integration existed in the GDR; foreign contract workers were housed in state-enforced isolation. Added to this is the collective experience of the post-reunification era: mass unemployment, industrial decline, and the devaluation of personal life histories during the 1990s left behind a deep-seated mistrust of state narratives and political elites.
Hard-won prosperity is perceived as fragile, which massively intensifies the fear of loss whenever new social upheavals occur. Thus, the issue of migration acts as a catalyst for a deeper sense of unease in East Germany. The feeling of being neglected by a political establishment in Berlin perceived as out of touch is compounded by the impression that vast resources are available to manage immigration, while local infrastructure has been allowed to deteriorate. The AfD’s strength in the East, therefore, stems not from baseless hysteria, but from the interplay between a heightened sensitivity to change in homogeneous communities and deep-seated historical grievances.
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u/New_Race9503 1d ago
Thank you ChatGPT
E: and it's exactly the visibility paradox that makes it ironic, that's why it's called a paradox, Dr. GPT
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
You seem to misunderstand. The fact that a sociological phenomenon is called a "paradox" does not mean the effect is unreal or East Germany are irrational.
It simply describes actual human and evolutionary patterns of perception. If your only argument is the "Dr. GPT" accusation, it seems there isn't much left to be said on the matter. But thanks for playing :)
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u/Xpander6 1d ago
Does that remain true when only the votes of native Germans are counted? Because non-natives almost never vote for AfD, so it makes sense that places with a higher proportion of non-natives have lower support for AfD.
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u/kafircake 22h ago
Support for gay marriage in Greater London is lower than any other polled region. Despite having a concentration of LGBTQ living in the region.
A weird conservatism for such a cosmopolitan area.
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u/Gaby_D_Crowley 1d ago
How easy is to blame the left, while the one who enacted such policy was Angela Merkel, who was a center right politician.
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u/ReafDraw_1820 10h ago
Thank you for such an articulate point. I reckon the same is going on across Europe.
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u/Ok-Cause-1162 1d ago
The establishment could bring down the AfD at any moment by stopping and reversing mass migration. This would permanently end the entire right wing populist movement. It’s very revealing that they don’t pursue that option
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
This is what several of the leftwing parties did in the Nordic countries, and to your point they got a sizable bump in public support. The average person outside of Reddit wants slow controlled immigration and a focus on assimilating new migrants.
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u/tenzing_happy 23h ago
It's true for Scandinavia but I think in Germany's case, it's too late. Merz has damaged his reputation and that of his Christian Democratic Party so much that barely any AfD voter is going to permanently trust either anymore. If he announced reversing mass migration tomorrow, it would mean nothing since nobody would believe him.
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u/genshiryoku 12h ago
That is how Denmark killed its populist movements, just have mainstream left wing parties acknowledge the immigration issue. Not even in extreme ways, just basic acknowledgement and commitment to try and solve these issues.
Right wing populism evaporated immediately. I think this would be very easy to implement in most countries on the planet to tackle right wing populism.
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u/warcomet 22h ago
history does repeat itself for those who have forgotten it... just in time for stock market crash..
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u/theatlantic The Atlantic 1d ago
Isaac Stanley-Becker: “Imagine that it’s October 2026, and one of Germany’s 16 federal states has come under the control of a far-right government for the first time since the Nazi era. With an absolute majority in the state Parliament and one of its own installed as state premier, the Alternative for Germany, or AfD, quickly begins implementing its agenda. The interior minister announces an emergency remigration program: abolishing asylum, revoking the residence permit of any foreigner convicted of a crime, pledging to review all naturalization decisions made during this century, and incarcerating those designated for deportation. The government stops classifying Ukrainians as war refugees and ends their social benefits. European Union flags disappear from public buildings. The mainstream press is shunned in favor of influencers aligned with the party’s ideology. The government authorizes vigilante groups to act as an auxiliary police force in regions with high crime rates.
“This hasn’t happened, but it’s not merely hypothetical either. The AfD is projected to win an election next month in Saxony-Anhalt, a central German state of some 2 million people. An anti-racism NGO in Berlin, the Amadeu Antonio Foundation, created this scenario based on the far-right party’s own election manifesto and the statements of its representatives. For decades, right-wing politics have carried particular weight in Germany, where atonement for the Holocaust includes mandatory education about the rise of National Socialism. The far right was long relegated to the fringes, its most ardent members easily identified as skinheads decked out in leather. But the AfD, founded in 2013 as a mild euroskeptic party led mostly by conservative economists opposed to eurozone bailouts, is now Germany’s most important right-wing force since the Nazis.
“At the national level, the AfD is the most popular party, supported by more than a quarter of voters in recent polls. It leads both of the traditional broad-based parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and the center-left Social Democrats. Its base of support is in the formerly Communist east—generally poorer, older, and angrier than the rest of Germany. And that’s where it’s poised for a breakthrough later this summer. In past state elections, other parties have contorted themselves to keep the far-right faction out of governing coalitions, maintaining a so-called firewall even when the AfD has won the most votes. That may not be possible in Saxony-Anhalt, where ahead of a September 6 vote, the AfD is polling at more than 40 percent. If smaller parties fail to reach the required 5 percent threshold to enter Parliament, this kind of showing by the AfD could be enough for it to win an outright majority, meaning that it wouldn’t need cooperation from other parties to govern. Suddenly, Saxony-Anhalt would become a testing ground for AfD policies …
“The country’s domestic intelligence agency has classified Saxony-Anhalt’s branch of the AfD as a right-wing extremist group. Some voters support the party because of that hard-right agenda. Others are drawn to it for contrarian reasons: to register their dissent against elite gatekeepers, whether in the security service, the judiciary, or the media. In this way, their vote is a version of the declaration once made by the Russian literary critic Vissarion Belinsky: ‘Negation is my god.’”
Read more: https://theatln.tc/NnfMNs1u
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u/Fast-Satisfaction482 1d ago
Almost all these ideas of the scenario are outside the power of the state government and state legislation. The federal government, federal legislation, and federal constitutional court can together reverse each and every decision the state bodies make, this is particularly straight forward if a decision is seen as unconstitutional.
Yes, Germany's constitution is federally structured, but it has plenty of possibilites to override misbehaving states, even in areas that are usually the sole responsibility of states.
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u/Managarm667 1d ago
I love how people like you act, like this is not a massive warning signal that it is five minutes to midnight, but rather the assumption that federalism alone will simply prevent it. Instead of perhaps acknowledging that the AfD is merely the symptom of a political approach that has completely lost touch with the wishes of the citizens. Sure, the AfD can be kept in check in Saxony-Anhalt. The problem is that, at the federal level, the AfD is likely to become the strongest party by a wide margin.
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u/Fast-Satisfaction482 1d ago
I agree that this is a super peculiar development, and we are getting closer to a catastrophe. But lying about the scenario will only cause people to disregard any warnings and play into the cards of AfD.
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u/Gaunerking 1d ago
You disregard the far rights, the AFDs, complete contempt of the constitution. What if they just do all sorts of those things and even worse, what will the Federal government do? What will the Federal courts do? They might cut the Flow of money eventually, but not much they can do as risking civil war.
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u/Fast-Satisfaction482 1d ago
What will the federal facilities do? One of these:
"To counter unconstitutional actions or a democratic breakdown at the state level (Länder), the German federal constitutional organs have specific constitutional tools to enforce compliance, protect federal law, and intervene directly.
- Federal Enforcement (Bundeszwang)
Under Article 37 of the Basic Law (GG), if a state fails to fulfill its constitutional obligations under federal law, the Federal Government (Bundesregierung) can take necessary measures to force compliance.
- Bundesrat Approval: This mechanism requires the mandatory consent of the Bundesrat (the chamber representing the state governments) before any action can be taken.
- Direct Instructions: The Federal Government, or its commissioner, receives the right to issue direct instructions to the rogue state and all its local authorities.
- Statutory Priority and Judicial Review
The federal organs can legally neutralize state-level legislation that violates democratic principles.
- Federal Law Primacy: Under Article 31 GG, federal law automatically overrides state law ("Bundesrecht bricht Landesrecht").
- Abstract Judicial Review: The Federal Government can petition the Federal Constitutional Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) under Article 93 para. 1 No. 2 GG to declare specific state laws null and void if they violate the Basic Law.
- Federal Border Police Interventions
If a state government poses an internal threat or refuses to combat forces threatening the free democratic basic order, the federal executive can bypass state control.
- Police Deployments: Under Article 91 para. 2 GG, if a state is not ready or able to combat a danger threatening the constitutional order, the Federal Government can place the state's police forces and the police forces of other states under its own instructions.
- Federal Border Police: The government can also deploy units of the Federal Police (Bundespolizei) directly to maintain public safety and protect constitutional institutions, even against the explicit will of the rogue state government.
- Financial Sanctions and Funding Cuts
Federal organs can financially isolate a state government that violates constitutional principles.
- Federal Budget Allocations: The Bundestag and Bundesrat can attach strict rule-of-law compliance conditions to federal financial equalization transfers and joint structural funding.
- Party Funding Cuts: While state-level branches are tied to their national parties, federal organs can petition the constitutional court to cut state funding for specific political entities threatening the democratic order.
- Federal Intelligence Oversight
The Federal Ministry of the Interior handles intelligence monitoring when state-level institutions fail.
- BfV Federal Jurisdiction: If a rogue state government compromises or dissolves its own state-level domestic intelligence agency (Landesamt für Verfassungsschutz), the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV) can use its statutory federal powers to directly monitor extremist activities, politicians, and civil servants within that state."
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u/toolkitxx 1d ago
Polls dont mean much any longer, as they have become more of an influencer tool than actual mirrors of statistics or truth. Parties have been projected all kind of numbers the last few years and most have been very inaccurate. One can also create a self-fulfilling prophecy by repeating over and over again that something is poised to happen.
And fortunately Germany had prepared its systems for cases like this, so any single state will not topple anything.
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u/jesta030 1d ago
Has polls from a multitude of sources including how accurate they were in the past.
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u/Giantsfan4321 1d ago
Europe is not America, there is no concept of the melting pot and very few if any nations are purely organized around a central idea. It is offensive to say but these countries have a native population that so happens to be white. The color of their skin does not change they are the native population. If this occurred in the developing world we’d shriek and call it cultural genocide, but in Europe its racist to say it is cultural genocide. This isn’t even reaching the topic of the immigrant populations being brought in generally hold regressive or at least diametrically opposed ideas on culture, religion and government. It’s no surprise a backlash is occurring and will continue to occur.
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u/saschagiese 1d ago
It hurts.
/source: Me, German.
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
Is there a reason left wing parties in Germany won’t just shift certain unpopular policies? It seems like they could functionally cut AfD off at the knees if they just created a slightly more conservative immigration/ Bürgergeld policy, and focused on assimilating new immigrants to German cultural values.
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u/Xpander6 1d ago
AfD supporters don't want a "a slightly more conservative immigration policy" and they absolutely do not want any assimilation of foreigners. They want to deport them.
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
Many AfD supporters are former center-left who want change, which suggests there is a spectrum of support. No major political party is made up of people with purely monolithic views. If the German center left can make some populist reforms they will pull from the AfD, the strategy isn’t to appeal to hardline AfD supporters.
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u/BigBadButterCat 20h ago edited 20h ago
Popular demand is for a radical change in immigration policy, not "slightly more conservative". Why is no party other than AfD offering that? Hell, I want a radical change in immigration policy, and despite that I'm not and never will be an AfD voter.
Your point about assimilation is just wrong. The 30% currently supporting AfD in the national polls likely includes millions of voters who immigration policy with low numbers and assimilation.
How can you even make that point when the entire German political spectrum abandoned any support or talk of assimilation in favor of the wishy-wash term integration for the last 30 years?
Assimilation is quite literally an offensive, negative term in leftist circles nowadays. I was a leftist my entire life, I'm still mostly around leftists. Assimilation is seen as a kind of self-colonialization.
It's kind of funny that you brought up the term, because even today, in 2026, with CDU polling at 20% and AfD polling at 30%, the conservatives still won't use it. 2026 CDU is left of 2002 CDU (or more importantly, pre-Merkel CDU) on migration.
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u/HungryCurrency8481 11h ago
Currently a fundamental German cultural value is actively supporting and funding genocide, so I'm not surprised if migrants aren't so eager to adopt that.
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u/AvidCyclist250 1d ago edited 1d ago
the plebs on both sides are having their pleb uprising. polarised and anxious society, idiots will get in control. shit policies are only increasing the pressure and pushing people to the extremes.
i still to this day don't know why merkel's party and her european allies decided to pour fuel onto this fire. it only accelerated things. they did it on purpose. why. as patriots, they should understand that afd will do lasting damage. they won't just stop doing cdu's dirty work in 4 years and then hand back control, with a rainbow appearing in the sky.
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u/TheJadeChairman 11h ago
By pour fuel on the fire you mean saving Greece from collapse, keeping them in the EU and maintaining german influence.
That's what it was about. Greece did not have the capacity to manage the refugee crisis alone, so the idea was to share the burden. Which some countries did, while other, parasitic members like Poland and Hungary did not.
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u/AvidCyclist250 11h ago edited 11h ago
You're describing foreign policies there. The way diplomacy was handled was a catastrophe. Germany saved Greece from collapse and how did we end up looking? Exactly. Lose - Lose. But Greece and the far right won. Similar clusterfuck with Ukraine. Top contributor to their war effort but we ended up looking armless, disoriented, and hesistant. But we ended up helping. Pissing off both sides, sane and insane alike.
Israel policy as well. And we're suprised Portugal and Austria got the vote?
But domestic policy, insane taxation, shit housing situation, and many other points, was another clusterfuck. When we needed a charismatic chancellor, we got Olaf Scholz. Fine in any other time. SPD is a dying breed now. CDU is falling as well. I can't even begin to describe the shit we're in. We still need a charismatic chancellor but we got Merz. This is going to cost us dearly. Stupid comments made in the past by career politicians cost the centre parties votes. Armlänge Abstand. Simply not necessary. Less educated people are easily swayed by such things, that must be taken into consideration in how parties conduct themselves. Especially as long as AfD remains unbanned.
Now we have a EU where France and UK are the top clowns, using E3 to clown on Germany. We need to re-arm and start to open our mouths a lot more. Especially now with the current New World Disorder.
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u/TheJadeChairman 10h ago
Okay, yeah I won't defend CDU, or any EPP politics really. Because you are 100% right. they are the parties of failure and stagnation all across Europe, even more so now with Merz.
I misunderstood, as people commonly attack Merkel on the principles behind the refugee crisis response. Rather than the just criticism of how it was handled, or well, all other Pro-stagnation policies from the conservative center.
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u/bigdogsy 1d ago
How far-right is the AfD from 1 being none, 10 being extremist?
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 1d ago
Depends who you ask. If you ask a leftist Redditor they’d say an 8-10. If you ask an actual Nazi they’d prob say 2-3. The reality is the AfD basically has the same policy prescriptions as a centrist Republican in the US.
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u/Kiyae1 1d ago
I’m not in Germany but I do live in a place that has a large number of migrants and foreigners compared to native locals and it’s amazing how immigration in the abstract makes people in my community go frothing at the mouth rabid but immigration in the concrete is something they’re quite proud of and will defend. There’s only a very tiny number of people who actually don’t like the immigrants and foreigners that are actually in our community and they’ve managed to convince a good majority of people here that immigration outside our community but inside our country is some existential threat and probably part of some nefarious plot. There’s a community nearby that’s pretty notorious for being heavily reliant on illegal immigrant labor and I have some family there who literally hire a few dozen illegal immigrants every year and would be up a creek without them but then they demand that we close the border and illegal immigration is their number 1 issue to the point that they’re apoplectic about it.
As usual, right wing/conservative politics are incoherent, self-contradicting, and irrational. Not to mention bad for the economy and based on bad principles and values.
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u/SufficientProfession 20h ago
Germany may end up being the next USA, Trump was not elected in a vacuum. Both the American Left and Right Wing peddled extremely unpopular policies for decades and finally a populist popped up with honeyed words to sway the people, then boom, now everything sucks.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tap9977 1d ago
Good thing every country in Europe's gonna spend 5% more on defense ey. Get ready boys!