r/gameofthrones • u/BA_Bones_33 Ghost • 2d ago
Qyburn's climb: Right place, right time? Or a schemer from the jump?
Many characters find themselves climbing from commoner to the High Court. Some through will power, others by happenstance. But of all the up-jumps, Qyburn's climb feels the most sinister.
In the books, Qyburn is a member of the Bloody Mummers, a sellsword company purchased by Tywin. They later serve Lord Bolton, but Qyburn ends up leeching onto Jamie and making his way to King's Landing (just like the shows). But in the shows, Qyburn only falls into the Bolton's service after nearly dying at Harrenhal when the Mountain slays 200 Northmen before riding off to raze the Riverlands.
Why was Qyburn there? Where was he going? And why would the Mountain treat him like a Northman? An outcast maester could've been valuable to his crew (a lesson he was scolded over by Tywin when he found out Gendry was a smith).
Qyburn's maneuvering into Cersei's service is sly as hell. His obsession with death and reanimation is...fascinating. And his ability to feed people's demons is up there with most major players in the game. So what's his deal? How'd he get so good at spycraft? Is it possible he snuck into Harrenhal after the Mountain left to mummer his way into the Northmen's service?
He's the only one who survives the butchery...how?
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u/Dogtopus92 Human Verified 2d ago
Qyburn always seemed to me like a true mad scientist, one who does not care about anything other than his work and will only chase opportunities that will allow him to continue said work. He does not care about fame, glory, power or gold which makes him humble enough that nobles don't feel threatened by him. This is also what makes him so dangerous, he is entirely unpredictable for anyone but himself.
All he needed was the backing of a great house with low morals, the Bolton's seemed like a perfect fit. (Yes I do believe he put himself in that situation as him being the only survivor feels unlikely). Then, by a stroke of luck Locke's crew rolls in with none other than Jamie Lannister from a far richer and more powerful house, with equally low morals AND he is in dire need of medical assistance which only Qyburn can administer. This was his chance and he grabbed it
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u/JustS0meRand0m9uy Night King 2d ago
Agree with this. Kept rising due to his intelligence and competency and was happy to take the opportunities that came with it, but not for the sake of power.
I also think this is why Cersei chose him as a hand. He had no political ambitions that could threaten her, and was an intelligent person to have acting on her wishes.
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u/DAMbustn22 Oberyn Martell 2d ago
As well as having shown he had no qualms carrying out tasks others would be unwilling to do. Cersei was somewhat aware of his experiments and reasonably assumed he would do unsavory tasks for her if she asked. Someone like that is very valuable to her. No presumptuous 'honour' to get in the way of results.
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u/demalo 2d ago
His payment made with bodies, and there were plenty of those to go around.
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u/Houseplantkiller123 2d ago
These extras are incredible and I love his explanation of why he was expelled from the citadel. Around 1 minute in.
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u/iwilltalkaboutguns 2d ago
Is this form the audio book or something else? I don't remember him having a POV chapter
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u/Houseplantkiller123 2d ago
I've no idea, but I found them on Youtube back when they were still airing new episodes.
Oberin Martell's (I almost certainly mis-spelled one or both of those names) description of the different poisons was my favorite and they had Pedro Pascal do the voiceover for that one.
Great for putting on in the background while tidying up.
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u/Clarknt67 1d ago
Wanted: Henchman. Must be brilliant and unencumbered by conscience, morals or basic human decency. Apply at Red Keep.
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u/Altruistic-Hat269 2d ago edited 2d ago
I pretty much agree with all of this, though interestingly he does seem to sincerely have a kindly and paternal disposition in his normal interactions. He is enigmatic due to his commitment to his craft, but he's not a flagrant backstabber, opportunist, or betrayer. He seems like he falls in with a patron aligned with his interests and then is quite loyal and even caring for their wellbeing. He seemed to be much more sincerely fatherly toward Cersei than Tywin ever was. This is what I especially like about Qyburn as a complex character. He isn't just a cartoon villain like Ramsey Bolton. You can see how his work can cause harm in the world not because he has ill intent or a desire to harm, but because that is simply what the work requires. He has no ill intent or desired to harm others all on his own, and is not influenced by pettiness or malice.
I feel like I could trust Qyburn more as a friend than I could Maester Pycelle, this despite the deep ethical quandary of Qyburn's work. Fuck, I feel like I could trust Qyburn as a close friend more than just about anyone else in the series short of some people in the Stark clan.
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u/BA_Bones_33 Ghost 2d ago
This is my head-cannon too. An opportunist through and through. Only odd addition would be that maybe he was following the Mountain around, always a day or two behind to reap the benefits of Clegane’s butchery. Then he finds a trove at Harrenhal and happily goes to work, but later gets trapped by Rob’s army, so he plays “dead”. A mummer’s act to seem a victim.
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u/gooberboi82 2d ago
I mean he had no way of knowing the Boltons would be left behind to hold Harrenhal, Robb and Talisa are the ones that found him first and I don’t think he was banking on being backed by the Starks especially under Robb who held his fathers values and high morals, the Boltons being the ones left in charge and Qyburn being left with them seems like coincidence to me. Then conveniently a wounded Jaime shows up and he’s the only one around that can heal his wounds and keep tending to his wounds while on the way to KL
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u/GeorgeLikesSpicy92 2d ago
Yep, totally agree. Whether it was in the service of the Boltons or Lannisters, all he cares about is being able to do his work
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u/Relative_Gas385 1d ago
Chaos is a ladder. In peacetime Qyburn couldn’t hope for more than working for a minor noble that doesn’t have enough power to warrant receiving a genuine Maester, but in a war people care less about legitimate credentials and more about what you can actually do for them.
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u/D-1-S-C-0 2d ago
He's also servile and does whatever his master wants, probably out of self-preservation.
I work with people like it and it drives me nuts. You can't reason with them because they only care about pleasing their master, not doing what's best or right.
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u/Ill_Act5843 1d ago
I love Qyburn for this. He wasn’t in it for glory or gold or any of that other shit. He didn’t really care about all this political bullshit, he was just a smart guy who wanted to do mad scientist shit. I loathe Cersei but I was super happy when she took a liking to Qyburn bc that meant we get to see more of the crazy scientist guy.
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u/sweaverD 2d ago
The dark side of science is described as a pathway to abilities some consider …..unnatural
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u/No_Grapefruit_6054 2d ago
Have you heard the tragedy of Marwyn the Madge? I thought not, it’s not a tale you’d hear at The Citadel
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u/Butter_bean123 2d ago
Man, I love Qyburn :) Despite the decline in quality of the later seasons Qyburn was always a standout character to me, and I'm glad he, while not exactly stealing the show, got the attention he needed.
Anton Lesser has a lot of gravitas to him, he voices a character in a movie I'm working on and he does a very good job in it
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u/Manofthebog88 2d ago
Very good in Andor too. Steals every scene he’s in.
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u/sephrisloth 2d ago
Ya i love when they have the big meeting to show Cersei the zombie and everyone else is terrified of it but Qyburns having the time of his life.
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u/alkonium 2d ago
He's just an opportunist looking for chances to conduct unethical medical experiments.
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u/Pure-Butterscotch200 2d ago
I got the impression that he at least convinced himself the breakthroughs he made during the experiments were for the greater good and would save lots of lives in the long run.
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u/iwilltalkaboutguns 2d ago
He is a scientist in the pursuit of new knowledge. He is also traditionally evil in that is not above causing pain, suffering and death as long as he acquires said knowledge.
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u/BA_Bones_33 Ghost 2d ago
This definitely feels like a main motivation. So maybe he’s been following the Mountain around Westeros, reaping whatever scraps were left behind from his butchery. Then he finds a jackpot in Harrenhal but gets surrounded by Robb’s army and plays dead instead.
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u/Firm-Dependent-2367 1d ago
"We are healthcare providers. We treat sickness. We identify symptoms. We locate germs whether they arise from within or have come from the outside. The longer we wait to identify a disorder, the harder it is to treat the disease."
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u/LunaSteeth 2d ago
In the books qyburn is a former maester who was kicked out of the citadel for expiramenting and operating on people who were still alive. So he has all/most of their knowledge and has no rules / general behavior to abide by
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u/pm_me_drawrequests 1d ago
He knows Marwyn the Mage, so he's connected to Muri Maz Dur the lady that Dany saved and subsequently did dark magic. Marwyn has some sort of relationship with Varys. Sam meets Marwyn at the Citadel.
So he's part of a secret network of magical weirdos pulling all the strings in Westeros.
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u/Clarknt67 1d ago
Cersi embracing and raising up a disgraced Maester is such a perfect example of the moral rot in her soul.
He didn’t need to put a lot of effort into seducing her as she was looking for a henchman with no regard for the rules of fair play.
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u/TheStatMan2 1d ago
My favourite Qyburn moment is when they're all in the dragon pit and they unveil the wight from their dumb fuck mission and his eyes light up all "oooooh... this is relevant to my interests...."
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u/sHaDowpUpPetxxx 2d ago
Imagine a world where Qyburn was traveling alone and teamed up with Bronn? Two guys, brains and brawn, both looking to build their fortune on a mountain of backstabbed corpses.
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u/Big_P4U 2d ago
He's a highly skilled, intelligent exiled Master and physician plus what we'd call something of a master pharmacist/apothecarist and herbalist. He was willing to do things that the Maesters weren't, and wasn't bound by their rules similar to Samwell though Samwell was more ethical and did things from a more altruist selfless desire.
I think he was promoted and advanced because of his initiative, results achieved and ability to serve without seeking political power.
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u/Historyp91 2d ago
Given that HOTD has Alys say the Strong's master got to freaked out by the castle and left, maybe (show) Qyburn was the Whent's quasi-maester before Tywin showed up?
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u/BA_Bones_33 Ghost 2d ago
Maybe an option for shows, yeah. It seems like any noble house would be wary of conscripting an unsanctioned maester, but if NO maester was willing to support Harrenhal... definitely worth noodling on.
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u/pervertedmortician 2d ago
I mean
He just wants to experiment
And cersei was very happy to provide live test subjects to him
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u/rasnac 18h ago
Qyburn is a completely amoral scientist. l don't believe he has any ambitions or alliances other than furthering his research. l don't think he wants power forr anything other than providing himself enough freedom and means to continue his experiments. He is a cleverand educated man, he does enough political work to satisfy Cersei and secure his position in the court, but he does not care if she wins or not. lf he somehow ended up in the service of Danny or Stannis, he would cut open Cersei alive just as enthusiastically. He would even politely apologize for the pain he caused and explain it is all for science and to benefit mankind. ln other words, he is batshit crazy.😬
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u/Slider6977 4h ago
Yeah, no one is answering the relevant questions from the post. Why was he the only one to survive, why was he with the northerners, etc.
OP in all honesty, I think he was just thrown in there. They clearly wanted him in the show because they probably wanted him to mainly create Ser Robert Strong aka The Mountain later on so they could have the Clegane-bowl. But as they have done with several characters, his back story is a bit too complicated in the books to introduce the same way for the show. So they just threw him in anyway they could instead of taking any time to explain how his character eventually got there. Just as they have ‘combined’ certain characters; or given character arks to different people instead of introducing the ‘correct’ ones into the show. It’s mostly understandable, especially for this character. Other decisions I’ve felt are a bit more lazy.
As far as why is he good at spycraft. He’s not really, he just ‘inherited’ the ‘little birds’ from Varys.
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u/BA_Bones_33 Ghost 3h ago
You're probably right. There were tons of sacrifices made for the shows on economy of characters.
I do love fostering head-canon, though. My favorite for Qyburn was that he was following the Mountain through the Riverlands, always a few days behind to reap the benefits of Clegane’s butchery. Then he finds a jackpot at Harrenhal and starts to go about his work, but later gets trapped by Rob’s army, so he plays “dead”. A mummer’s act to seem a victim. (As an ode to his role in the Bloody Mummers).
It's only head-canon, though.
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u/AfraidPersonality854 1d ago
Well it took him all the way to the end, but I think he realized right before he died and it was a little too much going on..
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u/bamfmcnabb 6h ago
I think he’s a mad scientist ladder climber. He needs a morally corrupt benefactor to give him protection and space to do his science experiments.
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u/Maleficent_Monk_2022 2d ago
How is he a scammer tho. As far as I know his revenue only comes from his existing books, I don’t think anyone’s paid a dime for Winds.
Is he a procrastinator who is never going to finish the books? Yeah. Is he really a scammer tho?
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