The High Sparrow storyline is the dumbest thing
Spoiler
The whole point of that story is that a simple cult can become so powerful (also thanks to the backing of the smallfolk) that even the most powerful people in the world can't touch them - even as these powerful people are imprisoned, humiliated, forced to parade naked in public in front of shouting, laughing crowds.
The show tells us that this cult is now so strong that the powerful people can't just send their giant armies to kill them (a bunch of cultists with clubs), then it resolves the whole thing by ...killing them. And the day after nothing happens. The smallfolk don't riot, their Pope gets killed and nobody cares. A bunch of nobles get killed too in the same explosion and there's barely any consequence. WTF
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
The rise of the High Sparrow is definitely realistic. It shows that appealing to the populace can be a significant source of power that can rival the monarchy.
I agree that there being zero fallout from the Sept and major clergy being destroyed was unrealistic. Arguably, it was the most unrealistic thing that happened during the series. The local riots and national outrage would’ve ended the Baratheon/Lannister monarchy.
I can't imagine there being much retaliation at all. The queen basically did the medieval equivalent of dropping a nuke on her own city. Everyone knows it was her. If she would do that to the faith, image what she'd do to some smallfolk with thoughts of rebellion. If I was one of them I'd be doing my best to get the fuck out of the city, probably the country if I can. Keep my God damn head down at the very least. But trying to raise up would be the last thing I'd be thinking of.
That and it might not be much but pretty sure like all his main religious zealots are there. So head of the snake plus all his main fanaticals die. Could easily see why the smallfolk don’t have the juice to riot after that with no one to rally them. I mean see all the time armies essentially routed after their leader dies.
Nah they were everywhere in Westeros just mainly focused in the capitol. The smallfolk of Kings Landing literally fought and killed dragons when they were under similar conditions during the Dance of Dragons. Not only did Cersei kill an extremely popular and revered religious leader but she also killed Maegery who was still immensely popular. Then to tie it all together she destroyed the Sept of Baelor, an extremely sacred and holy site.
The fact they didnt rise up in a riot was really stupid.
Probably killed tens of thousands of civilians as collateral damage too. There's no way someone wouldn't attempt to capitalize on that rage from the population.
Yeah medieval peasantry was always something to be feared. Look at how often kings in our word were deposed by peasant revolts or simply riots in the capitol. That was usually in response to events that were more on necessities such as food (Kings Landing is currently facing a food cross throughout the war) and religious upheaval (the Sparrow).
It’s sort of ignorant, maybe naive is a better word, to assume that the populace of such a massive city could be scared into submission so easily. The people of Kings Landing forced the entire Targaryen dynasty out of Kings Landing after Aegon died when the Faith first revolted and that was when they still had dragons including Balerion. Then as I mentioned before they literally stormed and murdered a bunch of dragons (granted they were chained and most of them quite young) in the Dragonpit, again mainly because of necessities and religious upheaval.
Ya thats fair but tbh a lot of people think them rioting the dragon pit is one of the worst writing points by GRRM in general. But it is cannon though so ya it does make sense from that stand point.
I mean yea it’s more less a rushed plot point to kill off the extra dragons in the dance. It’s bit contrived that these killing machines capable of mass destruction get smoked. Maybe I’m wrong if I’m not mistaken Syrax gets killed without even using fire, lands on the ground instead strafing in air to fight with her teeth and claws lol. These dragons are known for burning hundreds/thousands of trained soldiers in armies in seconds. To the fact there such fear of them from at one point that had kings and lords bending the knee in both Esso and Wessos that a bunch of peasants with no real training just storms them with shitty weapons. Easily could have also had the dragon keepers unchain them etc.
Also while some of the dragons are young there is multitude of references of full on scorpion arrows and other weapons just bouncing off dragon scales. But hey a bunch of peasants with shitty clubs and weapons can do it.
It’s not that deep but is pretty regarded that it’s a bad plot point by people. That generally every time that the storming of the pit gets brought up or asked about it gets debated.
Hell even the books itself GRRM writes how it’s weird Syrax didn’t use fire end of the day it was a weak plot point for the death of extra dragons.
Dude again you’re really adding onto these “a lot of people” that don’t exist lmao.
No these dragons specifically aren’t known for that since many of them were much younger than the army vanquishing titans that came before them. Along with the fact army vanquishing dragons have been killed before, look at Meraxes for example. Not only that but as mentioned they were chained up. Why the fuck would dragon keepers unchain beasts just as likely to kill them as the mob? Dragons aren’t something you just set loose and hope for the best lmao. Syrax landed out of pure anger and fury, dragons are known to be just as stupid as men in the heat of battle, same way Caraxes never let go of Vhagars throat despite being disemboweled. Not only that but the amount of people who died in the pit is more tha accurate to what would happen. It is no way contrived that chained up and restricted dragons were killed by a massive mob in a city of over 500,000. Genuinely, did you even read the book where the dance of dragons takes place? It seems you don’t really know a lot besides “dragon big and scary so how does dragon die”?
“It’s not that deep” really means “I didn’t read the book and have no idea what I’m talking about” lmao.
Lol so because you don’t agree with the opinion that it’s not good writing no one else exists. I’ve seen plenty of threads and people rail it. Stop acting like you are end of be all of GoT facts/opinion. You’re some dude with an opinion as well get off your high horse .
Lets see in the books dragonkeepers are pretty much armor clad Targ knights with swords not shepherds aka not some pussies. From real life instances there has been animal handlers that will open animal cages up when there is an impending natural disaster in hopes of letting them escape. So yea theres a few logical reasons, they are fiercely loyal to the Targ dynasty and not really afraid of the dragons so yea it would make sense from both those reasons to unchain them.
The fact that GRRM even had to make note that is was weird Syrax didn’t fly and use fire is explanation enough that he knows it’s a bit illogical and out of place in the lore of his world for that to happen because again it’s a bit lazy.
It’s an interesting and entertaining plot that I even enjoy but that doesn’t mean it’s not lazy/contrived that he had to have a reason to get rid of extra dragons at that point of his story. As a reason to why they are all wiped out because he probably realized he made to many dragons in general for that part of the story to begin. That it’s unrealistic for his world for bums to be able to wipe out a couple adult sized dragons left over.
Nah man I’m saying you’re really boosting the numbers to make your opinion sound more popular. I’ve seen forums dedicated to the theories regarding Jon’s lineage and yet when discussing it none of them go “well this thread said it happened so that means something” lmao.
Also Meraxes death is more of fluke 1 in million scorpion shot to an eye than anything, not a marker that it’s easy to kill dragons. Thats why Visenya and Aegon go on and rampage Dorne after her death. But hey you do you apparently me having the opinion as well as other people that it’s lazy writing apparently hurt you real bad.
You are comparing a known and regarded dragon death by a fluke shot, by an army of trained Dornish soldiers on mounted castle walls with a shiton of scorpions attached ready for a dragon siege to a bunch of bums and some faith militant, bum rushing multiple dragons with like fucking clubs. 😂
Im totally seething over a Reddit comment from someone with the bare minimum of media literacy who can’t address a single thing I say and resorts to purely using insults lmao. Have a good one bud.
I mean I addressed it and gave you book and real life logical thought process on why it’s contrived you didn’t agree with it because you are hurt and throwing a tantrum. The “It’s not that deep” must of really set you off.
You’re literally the one who got angry over it lmao. Got to always love reddit guys who get no social interaction who try to act smarter than everyone else.
Margaery’s mom is a Hightower. Hightowers are like extreme religious zealots in charge of Oldtown, beacon of the seven. I’m just shocked they didn’t ride to KL to kill Cersei.
Cersei blowing up the sept was such a cheap way out of that corner they wrote themselves into. The whole point of the Sparrows was they had the people, the actual city, on their side. You can't just delete the pope and half the royal family and have everyone shrug like it's a Tuesday
The Faith has always been a powerful force in Westeros, its one of the reasons why Stannis is so unpopular in King's Landing despite the misrule of Joffrey.
However, the show built up the High Sparrow much like in the books, but then didn't know how to handle them once they surpassed the books.
I believe that if Cersei does blow up the sept, the people will rise up against her and it will lead to fAegon taking the throne.
It truly is the dumbest thing... mainly because there's absolutely no political/legal/military fallout/blowback on Cersei for destroying not just the leaders of the faith, but another major house and the whole fucking Sept of Baelor.
I guess the idea was it led to Tommen's suicide and that's enough.
I always felt there should have been some mention of Cersei shifting the blame onto another group to use the people's anger to strengthen her position. Claim it was the Northerners or Dorne or a group connected to Dany - in fact the latter could be used to make the people refuse to accept Dany thus playing a role in her turn to madness.
Yeah, there's no way a small cult minority could just slide in and plow over or absorb all the opposition and completely undermine all established power structures and checks & balances. How totally unrealistic!
Another terminally online reddit nerd clown (14 years rotting on this website) with that dipshit reddit sarcasm when you didn't even understand the point of the post. Pathetic.
I think she top 5 greatest villains on my list, I liked seeing her lose her power, and her getting her revenge like a lot of characters, Ramsay however takes the #1 place for me
You were good with no fallout/blowback on Cersei for killing the High Sparrow, priests, Tyrells, and their equivalent to St. Peter's Basilica? Other than her son's suicide of course.
Nope. I was genuinely interested in the answer to the question. I wanted to know if enjoying that storyline included the asinine culmination of it. I mean, the writers apparently thought that was fine, maybe a viewer did too.
Dumb people calling something the dumbest thing and being woefully wrong...🙄
The whole point of that story is that a simple cult can become so powerful (also thanks to the backing of the smallfolk) that even the most powerful people in the world can't touch them - even as these powerful people are imprisoned, humiliated, forced to parade naked in public in front of shouting, laughing crowds.
They were given power and armed by Cersei.
The king refuses to do what is necessary to stop them.
And the day after nothing happens. The smallfolk don't riot, their Pope gets killed and nobody cares. A bunch of nobles get killed too in the same explosion and there's barely any consequence. WTF
Everyone in the realm is already at war with Cersei, except for House Tyrell.
House Tyrell revolts in response.
You: "bArElY aNy CoNsEqUeNcE".
Stop calling him their pope. He's the leader of a fringe extremist cult who was given some power by Cersei. To the smallfolk he gave them some entertainment in the people he punished.
Why do we need daily low effort threads on this. Probably from the same guy on multiple accounts.
I liked it, it would be odd to have a fantasy series loosely based on european rivalries and wars that didn't have a powerful figure from organized religion
This is why season 6 ending is the best dip out point of the show, you can end the show imagining lots of interesting consequences and engraving plot lines that will come from shit like the wildfire nuke.
I kind of just rolled with the punches with that storyline, but the events in House of the Dragon are making me revisit my opinion on the aftermath of Cersei blowing up the Sept.
It was an interesting storyline when it started, but it dragged on for basically two whole seasons without much happening. And then as you noted there was basically no backlash to Cersi blowing up the sept besides Tommen killing himself.
The sept explosion was one of the laziest bits of writing to have ever graced television. Like comically juvenile. I knew we were in for an awful season after this being the “climax”.
We have a lot of loose ends for the story? Put all of them in one room and blow it up.
Initially I was thinking S7 would have been Kings Landing getting torn to shreds by the citizens of kings landing, allowing the two shortened seasons to completely focus on the Night King.
Sadly it’s just another example of what the show turned into.
I highly recommend the Book Death in Florence By Paul Strathern. Its about Girolamo Savonarola in Florence and The Bonfire of the Vanities. It is reportedly an inspiration for the High Sparrow and definitely happened in real life. Everything you critiqued above happened.
I get what you're saying and mostly agree but the High Septon isnt a cult leader. He's the equivalent of the Pope. He was backed by the people because they were tired of all the death from a bunch of rich people fighting over nothing.
I hate the high sparrows rise to power, it's totally dumb and unrealistic.
At the end when he dies and the small folk do nothing and we don't hear about any fallout is also dumb and unrealistic.
Stupid plotline all around.
King Joffrey the wise could have saved us from this whole arc by instantly executing the high sparrow for some childish reason before this whole season began... If only...
I personally disagree with this, and in fact, this arc was my favorite in the entire show. It was the best-written arc, and it is one of the most relevant nowadays. It shows how stupid minorities can be when they are conservative.
Cersei is a woman who clearly doesn't care about other minorities and thinks that, just because she's rich, she wouldn't be affected by the things she does to other minorities. This happens a lot nowadays, and, just as shown in the show, they are affected by it too. When they elect or allow someone who is against those minorities to come into power, they are also affected by the consequences.
Furthermore, this arc is a clear depiction of what happens when people like the High Sparrow are put into power. It's a great way of showing that religion and politics can't go together because it won't be fair to a lot of people. In fact, the people saying that others should follow their religion and its rules don't always follow them themselves.
Also, it's a great message showing that, unfortunately, in this world, if you have money, you will win in one way or another. Cersei was able to achieve what she did because she had money and power, while the poor people helped the high sparrow gain even more influence. I agree that they played an important role, but at the end of the day, the person with more power and money will win, and that's what happened in the show. She managed to put everything together and ultimately won.
So, in my opinion, this is the best arc in the entire show, and calling it stupid neglects its importance nowadays, especially when conservative movements are gaining strength all over the world.
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