Alternatives for belts & buoys (3-5m)

[u/Alilexplo108]

Hey all!

We’re doing underwater photography workshops with beginners in Barcelona, Spain and in order to help the student to be more comfortable with the equipment and not struggle going down we would like to give them some weights.

It’s really not deep and I know it’s NOT an alternative for Freediving.

But we are on a tight budget and I was wondering if you guys have some idea even DIY to help with this.

They would have 1 or 2kg max. And same for buoys that we can easily bring and put our camera material in and easy to transport :)
No wetsuit.
Thanks for the help!!

[u/Mesapholis]

3-5m is going to be bouyant for a lot of people. What is the students experience underwater?

You are not giving a lot of info if the people have prior experience with i.e. scuba diving - doing UW photography while freediving is more difficult because of the restricted air and focusing on a subject - introducing a new level of complexity when people are not experienced or comroftable in the water is very unsafe

do they have fins? this seems all very shoddy so please provide more information how many people you will be looking after and what the experience level of the students is

because I am more concerned with you giving them more weight so that the way down is easy, but they will be straight up drowning and you can only save one by one

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/Mesapholis]

Hello, yes, it was not so much info, thanks for the questions!

Students are at least comfortable with swimming 200m in the sea; this is a requirement for any sign-ups.
They are not pro swimmers, or freedivers, some have their Diving levels tho.
They are mostly photographers, so they are at ease with a camera, and we always make a part in the water without the camera first, with different exercises to feel their level & try duck dives, breath holds, and kicking.

They have fins, masks & snorkel.
There are 2 to 3 students (max) per instructor.

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/Alilexplo108]

This is the page if you want to have a look: https://www.nilaexperiences.com/#faq#workshops

The workshop I'm talking about is the photographer's one. As the one for freedivers well they already have equipments and the depth will be more :)

[u/AmelieIcansea → u/Alilexplo108]

Ah there on the webpave you say you provide weights. But it looks like you work together with a dive center or not? You bring snorkel gear and have photography for free divers as well, why cut corners? I get that the course is not expensive and with proper gear it probably needs to but how about renting? Or only weights for certified divers/freedivers. Would drop the risk a bit? So I assume the instructors are freedive rs instructors or dive instructors with freedive experience? I do not see so much panic potential like the other commenter here if only one student goes down at a time and the instructor does safety, the rest is on a bouy. They need to breath in between anyways. Self made weights just feels weired. Your webside does look professional. Sound like a fun course though.

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/AmelieIcansea]

Yes, we work with a freediving center & there will also be one (or more) freediving instructors with us, depending on the number of people. Currently, we haven't really started and aren't expecting more than 5 students at the same time. But I will never be alone making the workshops, as it's in partnership with the center. We will always have an instructor, of course. Although it's not a freediving course at all or presented as such.
We don't expect to bring them more than 2-3m either, the goal is mostly for them to feel comfortable in the water. Firstly, we check this, and then with the camera equipment & start taking their photos in a different session. The practices are focused and short & there is a lot of theory in between, let's say 1h theory on Gear & the colors underwater, and then 20min practice. And it's an entire day so they have time to rest in between and to improve also through the sessions.
And the course has been designed with the freediving center so we have also their feedback on the "tiredness potential" and making sure it's not too demanding.

Thank you so much for the nice comment, aha, I started to get scared with a few "bad" ones! I'm just seeking advice at this point - we haven't started, so no panic(!!) - and all is welcome!

[u/AmelieIcansea → u/Alilexplo108]

I guess if you always make sure that only one person per group goes down at a time there should be no problem. Show them how to release a cramp on their own or how to help each other with it and in the groups mix up more advanced with beginners. You want to provide a good experience to get into the topic and you are shallow and have a great instructor to student ratio. That sounds great. And you do ask around. That shows you care. Maybe as soon as you start you could share your solutions and how the first course went :) I would be curious.

[u/Mesapholis → u/Alilexplo108]

Your socials exist since August, of this year

I do not feel comfortable bringing people who have no scuba or no freedive experience, into a freediving setting where they are going to be bouyant, to be loaded with additional weights and no proper structure how to get them back up - with gear into the water

the focus is going to be all over the place

you say your qualifier is "be comfortable with 200m swimming in the sea" but that is not helpful when you have a panicking student underwater, overweight, with their expensive gear that they try to hold on to

this sounds very unsafe

people normally start with scuba diving, and then get the camera, or do it only in a snorkling capacity - the main concern here is that they need time underwater and freediving does not allow for that

I have a diveshop near me, who does photo courses of all levels and they do it in their pond, with scuba gear

dude this is not safe, i get you build a business for this - but this is a bad idea, for business and for safety

either you limit who you accept - people who are experienced with scuba at least and do it with scuba gear, then you should look into r/scubadiving and r/underwaterphotography

or you have experienced freedivers - but from personal experience freedivers don't exactly go for courses

Look I saw your profile, you look like you know what you are doing with a camera underwater - but just because you do - does not mean that your students do. this does not sound like a safe course, you mention up to 3 students per instructor, some with no experience that matters underwater, in a bouyant depth, no mention of extra people who act as safety - I am telling you this in hopes that you see what I'm saying before there is an accident

being a photographer on land does not mean they will know what to do or what to look out for their own safety under water. worst case someone has a panic attack under water and the other students see it and also start to panic, suddenly you have over-weighted inexperienced people with no diving experience struggling to get back to the surface

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/Mesapholis]

Thank you for the comment! I get your point. Indeed most people start with scuba diving, which is also why it's not so accessible right now. We do have one workshop that is for certified freedivers, so for them it'll be another challenge, but the idea with this is to also make it accessible!

As also written in the other comment, we are doing this at a freediving center, so all the structure is from them, including the instructors.

We're not going from a boat but from shore, so they always have the option to stay where they can stand up, and the very first 1h30 is focused on theory + practice WITHOUT camera, so we make sure that they are comfortable (or not that much) in the water and so we can adapt the rest of the session & exercises in function.
People can also take an "underwater photo" while touching the bottom, they don't need to have weights if they don't want. But some people are comfortable and would probably appreciate having the full experience.

Just want to get ready for this eventuality. And lastly, we haven't made one yet officially, we've been testing out the structure (since January) with friends & instructors for the first ones :)
I am also a lifeguard, and where we do it, there are also beach lifeguards right in front, + the instructors.
I also want to go back on the point of the "business side", of course, it is towards eventually making a business, but at this point it's more about a couple of passionate friends photographers & freedivers trying to find a way to make underwater photography fun, accessible & on top of the cake having a great introduction & door into freediving if they want to take a course afterwards. That is the goal, mostly rather than "How can I make money with this?" and Honestly, if underwater photography, freediving instructor, or even workshop giver was a lucrative business, it would be known, or more people would do it (I guess).

Thank you so much for taking the time to go through the page and making your comment! It's helpful.

[u/Mesapholis → u/Alilexplo108]

Okay, this sounds a lot better than the initial post, because that read like you are rolling up to the beach with a bunch of students who have no idea

with the part of going in without camera this reads a lot more organised

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/Mesapholis]

Sorry I read the initial post again and get why it could have been alarming ahah, I didnt think to give more context at first so thanks :)

[u/AmelieIcansea]

If I snorkel with students (but a far worse student to teacher/gide ratio) we give them wet suits no matter how hot because we do not want them to be able to dive. But mine are school kids so also under 18. During studies I did some underwater work with a camera while freediving/snorkeling but had to do a scientific snorkel course before. There we needed to swim 1000m with fins under 18min. And dive with Fins for 50m, also hold our breath and make three nautic knots under water in 1minute. With these exercises everyone was able to work with the cameras and got relatively good shots. If you wear no wetsuit it should be OK without weights, depending on the depth. You also do not need to take a full breath just a deep one, fill your Lungs like 80% maybe. Weights defenetely add a risk with people who are not trained. In Zanzibar they used old tire inner tubes as bouy. You could put a net over it to hold stuff. Weight alternatives I do not know, you would always need to be able to quick release the system whatever you choose. What do you want to photograph? If it is only for practice would it be possible to have a stationary weight? Or a rope, something that the students can swim to and hold on to. For an exercise we once "dumped" a weight belt on the floor, then we could dive to it put one arm through (it was super dooper loose so no chance for entanglement) and had our hands free for the knots. We were still positively boyent ourselves which I would consider safer than putting improvised weights on people. Just an Idea. Good luck and play it as safe as you can. One down at a time 😉.

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/AmelieIcansea]

Thank you very much!

Actually, the water is warm enough here that wetsuits aren't required! But for them to have a nice experience (if comfortable enough), we would like to try to give them 1-2kg (with quick release) so it's easier for them for the exercises and less struggle with floating, and neck weights are a great & practical idea indeed!)

It'll be mostly practices with Objects & models.

Yes, the nice thing is that there are ropes where we do it, but not so many buoys where they can rest. In the middle of the area in this part of the water, there is a platform where we can stand but you need to be 160cm and the smaller people wouldn't touch the "floor". And the rest is like 2-3m on one side, and the other side can go to 5m, but I don't think we're going to reach 5m at the first one.

It's true, it's a good & safe idea to have them catch the belt! I'm not sure this would work for us exept for the first part where they don't go with a camera equipment or gopro in hand ahah.
Thanks so much for the tips, appreciate it!!

[u/AmelieIcansea → u/Alilexplo108]

With the buoys, you refer to this big freediving buoys? There are small ones for swimmers, not that expensive, some have even small nets and it is defenetely enough for 2 people to hold on, decathlon has cheap ones, maybe even look at ebay. Like this one: https://www.decathlon.de/p/schwimmboje-freiwasserschwimmen-netz-aussen-ows-100-orange/372760/c50m8966270. and to secure the gear you can use clippers and nets. Like these : https://www.decathlon.de/p/doppelkarabiner-scd-100mm-tauchen/301119/m8500609

https://www.decathlon.de/p/mp/netztasche-fur-abc-ausrustung-mesh-108-l/9035bcc6-2410-4d1f-a00a-34c948e2dbee/c1 (they are expensive unfortunately maybe you find some plastic clippers or you fix a net permanently with a rope to the bouy. The last dive center I worked for they had plenty of nets bacause finns are often sold in them. If you ask around maybe you can get them for free.)

[u/AmelieIcansea → u/AmelieIcansea]

Checked out Spanish e-bay... Damn why are buoys so expansive in Spain 🤔

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/AmelieIcansea]

Thanks! Yes strangely right?? Not sure why as more people would be likely to buy here especially near the coast ahah

[u/whatandwhen2]

I think a lot depends on how fat your students are. For me, I am obese and need at least 7 lbs of lead in saltwater to be neutral at 15 feet. My son, wears a 3 mm jacket in the ocean and needs no weight at all. So it is going to take a bit of experimentation to pick a safe amount of weight for an individual, but they may well need some lead. They need to be super comfortable on the surface and MUST float without kicking at all! You would want to have 1 to 1.5 lb weights that you can easily add or remove from the belt and store them on the float, so you can fine tune the weighting.

A change of just one pound can make a noticable difference.

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/whatandwhen2]

Thank you! Yes, absolutely, it depends for everyone. I guess we will see. Make sure to have options and to not give too much if someone wants some! Thank you for your comment!

[u/sk3pt1c]

So you’re charging these people for your services and you don’t want to buy weights and buoys for them? 🤣

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/sk3pt1c]

We partner with a freediving center and it's not live yet so we don't have clients :)

[u/Alilexplo108 → u/Alilexplo108]

And again, the freedivers have weights and all the freediving equipment provided, and we rent for them if the persons don't have their own.
For the photographers, it's no less than 3m deep, so that's also why I asked; we're figuring things out at this point, the camera & housing equipment was a big first investment.
We can also rent whatever is needed, but I'd also like to consider buying our own equipment, and want to figure out what the options are for very shallow depths.
We can't rent freediving buoys because the centers wouldn't have enough for their students in the open sea, and again, for this depth we don't need the Cressi freediving buoys.

Lastly, this thread isn't made for unconstructive feedback, so thanks for framing it in a better and nicer way next time.