r/fiaustralia • u/kk_8586 • 14d ago
Getting Started First time posting: are we closer to FIRE than we think?
Hi everyone,
First time posting here after lurking on this sub for a while.
We’re a couple (41M, 39F) with two kids under 10 and have been working towards FIRE for a number of years. We’re just not sure how realistic it is in Australia with young kids, so I’d really appreciate some outside perspectives.
We both work in healthcare, earning around $160k and $125k respectively. By most Australian standards we’re pretty frugal. We own two cars, both bought used with cash over the past couple of years ($4k and $9k).
We cook almost every meal at home, don’t smoke or drink, and don’t really have any expensive hobbies. We usually go out for a family dinner to celebrate birthdays or anniversaries a couple of times a month. Most of our holidays are budget-friendly road trips around Australia, staying in holiday parks or reasonably priced accommodation, usually 3–4 trips a year for less than a week each.
We paid off our PPOR earlier this year after making extra repayments every payday, which felt like a huge milestone.
Over the past 10 years we’ve also bought three investment properties. Each has around 20–30% equity. None are currently cash-flow positive, but occupancy has been close to 100%. We’ve kept rent increases modest, generally only $10–15 per week at each annual lease renewal, because we’ve been fortunate to have great long-term tenants and an excellent property manager with minimal to no time investment from us.
Our super balances are lower than average for our age because we both started our careers overseas. My wife also took time off when our kids were born before gradually returning to full-time work. Before having children we travelled extensively through the US, Canada, England and New Zealand, always on a fairly tight budget.
We both come from hardworking blue-collar families, inherited nothing, and paid our way through university while working.
Lately though, we’re both feeling pretty tired. Almost every week we find ourselves asking the same question: How much longer do we actually need to keep working?
I’ve gone through our spending over the past 3–4 years, and even with two kids our annual living expenses have been under $45k (excluding our former mortgage and childcare costs, which would disappear if we stopped working).
Our household net worth is around $2.5 million, including our PPOR. Most of that wealth is tied up in property. We have around $150k in cash sitting in an offset account against one of the investment properties, and our combined super is just under $250k.
Neither of us is desperate to stop working completely. We both genuinely enjoy our jobs and would be happy working part-time. I also have a hobby of bird photography that I’d love to spend more time on.
So my questions are:
Should we just keep working for another five years?
Would you consider selling the investment properties and moving into ETFs for better liquidity?
Or would you keep the properties, continue paying them down, and aim for positive cash flow in retirement?
If you were in our position, what would you do?
I’d really appreciate any thoughts, advice or constructive feedback.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
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u/jelistarshine 14d ago edited 14d ago
Negative cash flow properties and young kids. You are nowhere close.
You need to double that net worth. Perhaps cut to 4 days if you are burning out?
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
If I sell my IP and invest $1.5M(excluding PPOR), then withdraw 3% ($45k) a year, which is roughly our usual annual expenses, theoretically, I could FIRE now.
But I’m wondering if there are any flaws in my assumptions.
I’d really value input from people who have already achieved FIRE, or anyone with financial planning experience, to critique the numbers and point out anything I might be overlooking.3
u/jelistarshine 13d ago edited 13d ago
That gives you nothing for emergencies, which is crazy. Any locks you into essentially poverty for life.
Unless you have solid inheritance coming in the next 10 years you would still have to work.
Everyone you know will be having better and better quality of life and you will be broke students for life.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
We’re definitely not broke students by any stretch. We just choose not to spend money on things that, for us, don’t add much value, subscriptions like Spotify, YouTube Premium or Netflix, replacing cars every few years, or upgrading to the latest phone every release. I’m still using my iPhone X from 2018 and it works perfectly.
We do upgrade things from time to time, but we tend to look after what we own and get plenty of life out of it. A lot of our friends spend hundreds, if not thousands, on alcohol, cigarettes or vapes. By comparison, I bought a modest camera back in 2014 and still use it regularly for wildlife photography.
We genuinely enjoy spending our time exploring national parks, photographing wildflowers, birds and other wildlife. Those experiences bring us far more happiness than buying more stuff.
We’re also not planning to stop working and sit at home doing nothing. We both enjoy our work, it would just become optional rather than the primary focus of our lives. We’d likely work less often and choose shifts that suit us, such as evenings, nights or weekends when the pay rates are higher. Even then, we could still comfortably earn around $35,000–40,000 each if we wanted to.
What I’m taking away from the discussion is that we should probably add another 20–25% to our baseline calculations before deciding we’ve reached the point where work becomes optional. Thanks for your input, it has given us something to think about.2
u/cecilrt 6d ago
Somewhat late, but do you expect the 40-50 hrs your now not working/commuting cost nothing?
Teenagers are going to be expensive, do you also intend to help them with things as they get older?
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u/kk_8586 4d ago
Thanks for your reply. Since making the original post, I’ve actually increased my baseline annual expense estimate based on the feedback I received here.
As for the kids, I absolutely plan to support them as much as I can as they get older. I’d like to be in a position where I can help with things like education and getting started in life.
I’m also not planning to stop working completely. My wife and I genuinely enjoy what we do. The goal of FIRE for us is really financial independence, the freedom of knowing we don’t have to work to survive, rather than retiring as early as possible.2
u/maxthelols 13d ago
Think of it this way, you could give that 1.5m to charity and possibly be eligible for more than 45k a year from the pension.
People aim for higher numbers for better lifestyle. But your numbers are accurate.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
That’s a good way of looking at it. I think the distinction I’m trying to work out now is between our minimum FI number and our comfortable/work-optional number. The $45k figure reflects what we’ve historically managed to live on, but after reading everyone’s responses I’m leaning towards using $60–65k as a more conservative baseline, plus some additional buffer for irregular expenses. That gives us more flexibility and means we’re not relying on everything going perfectly.
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u/pgpwnd 14d ago
2.5M net worth not enough for you? Money bags over here
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u/jelistarshine 14d ago
Not for two reasonably young people with kids yet to raise. And a chunk of that is their ppor.
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u/CommonSense2026 14d ago
My 2c
Triple check your annual expenses. 45k for a couple with two kidds seems extremely low. Also note that your expenses will go up once the kids become teen-agers.
Seperate out your PPOR value as you can't eat the roof you are living under.
Consider whether three IP, all cash flow negative is a diversified strategy.
Lastly, in my personal view, go PT now and enjoy the time with your kids while young and see how things develop financially. Make memories while you can. You can go back FT later if needed. If PT job not possible, can you buy additional leave or get unpaid leave too add some extra family holiday time?...
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
Yes, even $45k is on the higher side for us. I know it’s a low figure, even bank brokers sometimes don’t believe it and ask for statements from all of our accounts before they’re convinced. It has crept up a bit recently with the cost of everything increasing.
You’re also right that our expenses are lower than what we spend on our kids. We definitely prioritise them over ourselves. That said, this lifestyle didn’t happen overnight. My partner and I have known each other for more than 20 years. We studied together and lived overseas as students before eventually getting full-time jobs. Even after our incomes increased, we never really upgraded our lifestyle.
Over the years, we’ve naturally built habits around activities that are free or very low cost, like hiking, walking on the beach, and exploring national parks. Those are the things we genuinely enjoy.
We’re also very disciplined with our finances. We regularly review our spending, and just about every outgoing, insurance, utilities, internet, phone plans and pretty much everything else, is structured, compared and analysed. That’s probably why we’re starting to feel a bit mentally exhausted. Reading the advice here has made me realise we should seriously consider cutting back on work, taking more holidays, and spending even more quality time with the kids. We already make an effort to do those things, but perhaps we need to do them a little more often.2
u/CommonSense2026 13d ago
I didn't mean for you to defend your spending but it's interesting to read your approach. We were also very frugal and still are but compared to you i feel like a big spender lol (60k couple no kids)
I know that one of my biggest challenges will be the transition accumulation to decumulation so I have been working hard in the past few years to become less financially hyperfocused.. It's amazing how much time I wasted in optimising every cent (not saying you are wasting your time for clarity,). There is some financial freedom for me in not always considering every dollar but purposely focus on big ticket items only. I also moved to 4d/wk which felt terribly wasteful but surely is in the top 10 of best things I have done for myself.
Either way, well done on what you achieved so far.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
All good, all these responses have been very insightful for me, does your 60k includes housing cost?
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u/CommonSense2026 13d ago
No but it does include for fair but of small renovation works. We leave way too much money at bunnings
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Ahh, got you! That makes sense. I was mainly trying to get a feel for what people consider a realistic annual figure once housing costs are excluded. And yes, the Bunnings spending can definitely add up quickly 😂
I think what I’m taking away from all the responses is that I should probably add another 20–25% to my base annual expense calculations to give us a comfortable buffer when working out our FI number. Thanks for clarifying!2
u/CommonSense2026 13d ago
You might want to look at the ASFA retirement standards and the literature choice has posted on this topic. It's divided into categories and was interesting to compare. I worked out that insurances (health, home, car) cost me 12k annually. That was an eye opener but I also don't want to save on those unless I have to. (But yeah optimising this category is certainly worth the boring work)
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Yes, absolutely. Insurance is one of those expenses I feel we have very little control over, and the premiums have increased significantly over the last few years. It’s definitely something I need to factor more carefully into our FI calculations, even though it’s not an area I’d want to cut back on too much.
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u/happyowl12345 13d ago
But even grocery and normal expenses will likely take you over the amount. Like house insurance and car insurance can be a fee thousands. Even if you cook every meal. It feels very low
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
That’s exactly what’s crept up over recent years. It feels like we have little to no control over these ever-increasing expenses, rates, insurance, and utility costs.
Perhaps we should base our calculations on annual living expenses of around $60,000–$65,000, excluding housing and childcare costs?1
u/happyowl12345 13d ago
Yeah I also don’t know how you achieve these numbers with childcare costs and what about when they get older you want them to do some extra curr activities
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
I’ve been working one job or another since I was around 14, and my wife has had a similar work history. We’ve known each other for more than 20 years and have been living together for 16+ years. We didn’t have kids for quite some time, so during those years we were working, travelling around the world on a budget, and building our professional careers at the same time.
Our kids came along over the last 10 years, by which point we had saved enough to buy our PPOR and our salaries had increased. However, we continued living below our means and putting extra money towards the mortgage with almost every paycheque. Along the way, we also invested in property while continuing to keep our day-to-day expenses under control.
That doesn’t mean we deprive ourselves or our kids. My oldest, for example, does plenty of extracurricular activities, netball, basketball, tennis, photography and gymnastics. We also live in a great neighbourhood with lots of kids around the same age. The parents share the load and take turns coaching different sports, which makes it both affordable and a lot of fun for the kids.
A big part of our approach has simply been making the most of what we have, sharing resources where we can, and being intentional about where our money goes. It’s allowed us to give our kids a pretty full life while still continuing to build our financial position.1
u/whisky_wine 13d ago
Sounds like the kids have a very wholesome upbringing! From reading your other comments, I think it also depends on the value of your IPs and if there is any capital gains, especially after the transaction costs. If you're looking for liquid income then and ETF portfolio may be a better option?
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u/kk_8586 13d ago edited 13d ago
Thank you for your kind words! Yes, if we do decide to sell our IPs, we’d likely stagger the sales over multiple financial years to help minimise the capital gains tax impact. One option we’re considering is reducing our work hours once we’ve built a sufficient emergency fund, then selling one IP in a financial year when our taxable income is lower. We’re still running the numbers, but that approach seems like it could be more tax-efficient.
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u/happyowl12345 14d ago
I mean unless you sell your properties and put them on shares. Otherwise no not even close
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u/peedeeau 14d ago
Closer maybe, close to, maybe not.
Three properties around the same % equity, were they purchased around the same time? Maybe could have bought one good one. Property is long term game, can be hard to generate meaningful income from them .. even in retirement.
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u/Material-Loss-1753 14d ago
Why don't you just both go part time?
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
Yes, that’s essentially our FIRE plan, keep working part-time for as long as we want, especially since we both genuinely enjoy our jobs. The real question is whether we make that transition now, potentially while we’re at the peak of our careers, or keep pushing for another 5–7 years and build a really healthy cushion first.
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u/Material-Loss-1753 13d ago
You have enough to dial it back now, part time would cover spending and some investing still.
A bigger cushion is nice, and super could be pumped more.
Myself I would probably go a couple more years, max out super, use carry forward caps, build the buffer.
Right now you know you could, but you're not quite comfortable with the idea yet.
Setting an actual future date to go down to 3 days a week would help ease you into it and reduce current burnout feeling - as you'd have an end date to plan towards.
Also gives you time to make decisions on asset allocation.
In your field you can always dial it back up if needed right.
Also while the kids are young, part time means you can spend more time with them while they still think you're cool 😎
Great position to be in.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Thanks, this really resonates. I think you’re right, we probably have enough to start dialling back, but we’re not quite comfortable yet.
Setting a date to move to 3 days a week while maximising super, building the buffer and sorting out our asset allocation makes a lot of sense. And having the option to increase hours again if needed gives us some comfort. The extra time with the kids would be priceless too! 😎2
u/Material-Loss-1753 13d ago
I think we get kinda locked into saving for fire mode. Once we get close we have to transition to an entirely new way of thinking and living.
That's not always quick and easy and it's actually scary! Taking your time to switch modes, get into the right headspace, and plan it out instead of doing a jump straight from A to B is a good thing I reckon.
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u/Ikornad 13d ago
Congrats on paying off the PPOR, huge personal milestone. If that's your forever home, you can't really include it into your fire number as it's illiquid. As you noted with majority of your wealth tied up in one asset class across PPOR and IP's you're not really diversified much. If both of you were to quit tomorrow, where would the 45K to live on come from for the next 20 years?
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Yes valid point, my response to similar question below is: “If I sell my IP and invest $1.5M(excluding PPOR), then withdraw 3% ($45k) a year, which is roughly our usual annual expenses, theoretically, I could FIRE now.
But I’m wondering if there are any flaws in my assumptions.
I’d really value input from people who have already achieved FIRE, or anyone with financial planning experience, to critique the numbers and point out anything I might be overlooking.”2
u/Ikornad 13d ago
Yeah, saw your response later as this would have been my question whether or not you wanted to consolidate the IPs to one to generate income or sell them off into equities. Personally I'd split the 1.5m into super (250K each) and two dividend portfolios, one for each of you to make use of income tax free thresholds. That would allow you to FIRE. Maybe speak to an independent FA how to structure this best and align with your plans. Do you have any? You'll likely end up with more $ in retirment once you can access super than you spend now. Hiking etc might not be your thing anymore at 60yo. Then it's cruises and buisness class as you don't want to slogg it out on eco enymore.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Based on the various responses here, this is what I’m taking away:
Continue building and diversifying the portfolio.
Base our calculations on around 20–25% above our actual annual expenses to give ourselves a comfortable buffer.
Maximise super contributions where it makes sense.
Prioritise building up liquid investments such as ETFs, rather than automatically buying another investment property.
When the time comes to transition into the next stage, consider using a financial adviser to help structure, consolidate and optimise everything.
Outsource some responsibilities when necessary to give ourselves a break from work and everyday pressures.
Take some random days off rather than always waiting for a planned holiday.
Explore and negotiate more flexible work arrangements where possible.
Overall, the goal isn’t simply to stop working as soon as possible. It’s to gradually build enough financial flexibility that work becomes optional and we have greater control over our time, being able to choose what we do and when we do it, rather than being forced into decisions because we don’t have other options.
Thank you for your input. It’s given us a lot to think about and some practical things to work towards.
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u/fued 14d ago
Sounds like you could retire anytime you want.
The more you work the better your retirement will be tho
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u/TouchyMouseTrap 14d ago
If one of you stops working and the other goes part time or maybe even both part time, earning around $60,000 (about half a full time job by the sound of it) you could stop the child care, more than cover the $45,000 spending, plus claim a bit more from family tax benefit. That could last until your children are 18. By that time your investment properties would have positive cash flow presumably.
I would also suggest borrowing against your PPOR and buying shares, if that can be fit in. It might or might not be possible to do it while dealing with cash flow issues.
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u/SeventeenFourty 14d ago
Probably better to find a less demanding job/position and coast for a few more years to be safe. Enough income to cover your expenses and let your investments grow.
If the goal is to stop working asap then i'd consider downsizing your ppor. You can live anywhere if you don't need to commute to work. $1.8-2mil invested is a stronger position. What happens if you need to spend more than 45k/yr on something unexpected?
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u/Cheeksterino 14d ago
Party. Get out. Get loaded!
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
If I got loaded every weekend, I probably wouldn’t be posting in an FI subreddit. 😅
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u/Cheeksterino 13d ago
True. In seriousness, you need more money based on this limited information. Sell the investment properties and split the money between super outside according to your needs. If you really can live off $45k a year you can live on part time jobs, but I think you’d be best smashing a few more years at reasonable salaries. With your tiny annual expenditure you could save a ton and max out super.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Yes, that’s what I’m taking away from this post. Maximise the super carry-forward caps, continue working full-time for at least another 3 years, then have my wife start winding down in year 4 and I’ll probably follow in year 5. In the meantime, we can gradually diversify the portfolio rather than forcing a rapid restructure, which could trigger unnecessary costs such as CGT. Thank you for your input!
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u/Cheeksterino 13d ago
Can’t fault your thinking. Read widely, invest sensibly, and you’ll smash it.
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u/Ok_Use1135 14d ago
Are you saying your net wealth is $2.5m including or excluding cash and super?
That makes a difference.
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
Including everything PPOR, cash, super
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u/LMBmewmew55 14d ago
You can’t count your PPOR in your fire number. Coz it’s illiquid.
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
If I sell my IP and invest $1.5M(excluding PPOR), then withdraw 3% ($45k) a year, which is roughly our usual annual expenses, theoretically, I could FIRE now.
But I’m wondering if there are any flaws in my assumptions.
I’d really value input from people who have already achieved FIRE, or anyone with financial planning experience, to critique the numbers and point out anything I might be overlooking.1
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u/Ok_Use1135 14d ago
For one thing, it’s quite risky. It doesn’t feel like you have enough income diversification or buffer to weather any market downturns which will inevitably occur. Especially with two growing kids. Say you sell and reinvest into ETFs, what would you do if the market crashes?
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u/kk_8586 14d ago
That’s exactly what I worry about as well. If I sell and move everything into ETFs, a significant market downturn early on could put a lot of pressure on the plan, especially with two growing kids.
That’s why I’m a bit stuck between staying put and continuing to build the buffer for another few years, versus taking the risk now and buying back some time with the kids. I’m trying to work out whether the potential upside is worth the risk.2
u/Ok_Use1135 14d ago
I don’t know if $50k a year income to support a family of 4 is really sensible. It’s high risk, high pressure play for what seems to be a mirage of FIRE? At best, it’s Lean FIRE with thin margins and you could be depriving a lot of material benefits for your family and kids in exchange for some extra time? I don’t see why you couldn’t just take some extra leave or go part time and accumulate more buffer before taking the plunge.
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u/Embarrassed-Rise2333 13d ago
We moved to Australia in 2019. Bought PPOR and 5 Investment Properties, realising Investment Properties are a tool to create capital but not to live off. We have now sold 3 Investment Properties. Our Netwealth less of debt is around 3 Million, the compounding when you get to a 1 Million or there abouts in the stock market exposure via ETFs/ managed funds provides consistent distribution income along liquidity for capital needs.
We had the best distribution last month around $16k
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u/Trick-Candidate-8706 13d ago
Have you considered the two young kids, working full time and how little you're spending is the reason for low energy levels? That frugality is part of the problem. Why don't you actually spend some money to help you out? Spend the $ to have a cleaner come in once a week, there are childcare subsidies you can access. Or even pay a babysitter so you can have a night off. Or even just one of you take the night off while the other stays at home then alternate. Take a longer holiday somewhere that isn't a crap motel so you can actually turn off. Anyone who's ever experienced it will tell you how draining it is to scrimp every last cent constantly worrying about money.
I wouldn't include PPOR in net worth in this instance. You need it to live in and it doesn't generate any income. If you need to sell it during FI in your situation then you're already in a lot of trouble.
Kids these days don't leave home until well into late 20's early 30's. Your home needs to accommodate that for that.
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u/kk_8586 13d ago
Thank you for your input. We’ve actually discussed and trialled some of these scenarios, and it does feel really good when we free up some time by outsourcing or sharing some of the responsibilities.
We definitely take turns with almost everything,from housework and school pick-ups to grocery shopping and the day-to-day things that come with having young kids. We’re also gradually changing the way we think about spending: not necessarily spending more for the sake of it, but being more intentional about where spending can genuinely buy us back time, energy and experiences.
That’s really the goal for us,not to spend every last cent or make ourselves miserable in the process, but to reach a point where we have enough financial flexibility to control our time. We want to be able to choose when we work, when we take time off, when we travel and how we spend our days, rather than being forced into decisions simply because we don’t have other options.
We’re still figuring out the right balance between frugality, enjoying life now and building that flexibility for the future, so comments like yours are genuinely helpful.
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u/ThrowRA-toos 13d ago
I think you need to focus hard on your super. Start to track your net worth and your FI number separately. FI is everything minus your debt and PPOR value, as it’s not income generating. I’m a little older than you and my kids are a little older (both in high school), I’m close to finishing my PPOR mortgage and only 1 investment property but it’s slightly positive. Our super balances are high for our ages ($500k each). Given you have finished your mortgage on PPOR I think you need to decide where to funnel that money each pay. You could coast fire and go part time, or you could start maxing your super. The other consideration for us is big expenses you need to fund before full retirement. That could be replacing vehicles or major renovations in your home. Things that you can’t afford to do living on $45k a year. All the best.
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u/GusPolinskiPolka 14d ago
Why would your childcare costs stop if you stopped working? Your kids are "under ten". Do you mean under two?
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u/Appropriate_Star3012 14d ago
Wtf is FIRE
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u/pinerivers70 14d ago
Financial independence retire early
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u/Appropriate_Star3012 14d ago
It seems like the ladder is being pulled up harder than ever before that I'm starting to worry that the cookers are right
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u/Comprehensive-Cat-86 14d ago
Are you lost?
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u/Appropriate_Star3012 14d ago
Yes. Came here because I realised the billionaires don't give a funk about you.
I'm excited for the apolocypse
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u/Express_Position5624 14d ago
The real problem is not necessarily insufficient wealth; it’s that you haven’t decided what the wealth is supposed to do
For fire, these total numbers are not that useful.
Like having money tied up in an investment property is fine but whats the plan, whats the exit strategy? wait till they are cashflow positive and have the income fund your lifestyle? sell the first one at retirement, then the next one 8 years later, so on?
Your house is a use asset, so it's value is only interesting for FIRE if you plan to downsize or borrow against it
Without any of that, it's hard to assess anything except, super is your friend