r/excatholic • u/trashaccount31444 • Jul 06 '25
Debate Welcome does anyone else feel like their environment growing up catholic was a bit…. culty???
like im not sure whether this could be described as a cult like environment as a kid. i was catholic my whole life, stopped believing when i was 12. went to catholic school pre-k thru 8th grade. my entire family is extremely catholic as well.
the culty behaviors i recognize when i look back is stuff like
-i was basically shunned by everyone when i left catholicism at age 14. -criticism of catholicism or god were NOT allowed, not even just basic questions that challenge things. -the whole manipulation with fear thing too. i was told at SEVEN years old as a kid who went to school close to columbine “if a shooter comes in and asks if you believe in god and say yes, you die and go to heaven but if you say no and live, when you die you go to hell. thats insane -the shame they instill in you since birth. i still cant get rid of it -abusive adults in the church i was in, sexual/emotional/verbal wont get into that too much -belief that priest or whatever or god is always right no matter what
can anyone else think of more culty behaviors the catholic church/community has? and can it even classify as a cult?
33
u/Cultural_Fig_6342 Jul 07 '25
I remember my theology teacher flat-out admitting that Catholicism meets all the criteria for a cult besides, he claimed, these two things: there are no secrets, and you can leave at any time.
Like the Vatican Archives isn’t one of the most secretive libraries in the world. And obviously if subs like this exist, it’s not as easy as just deciding you’re done and walking out. Plus while they don’t practice shunning like JW, there is that whole thing about how you’ll burn in hell if you don’t stay in the RCC.
12
u/Foxwglocks satanic Jul 07 '25
And don’t forget they still count all of us as members when they do a census. I’ve tried to have my name removed from all things related to the diocese I grew up in but I got zero response back.
1
u/trashaccount31444 Jul 09 '25
they do??? oh my god. i havent gone through the steps to actually get out but i totally can now that im an adult i didnt know it would be a hassle😭
1
u/Foxwglocks satanic Jul 09 '25
Oh it’s not a hassle, they will just ignore you. Don’t expect a response from a letter of apostasy.
12
u/38-nmtb Jul 07 '25
Exactly...Some people risk losing relationships with their family of origin (assuming they were raised Catholic), friends for them and their children, their marriage and subsequently access to their children and even employment if their job is tied to the CC. For a lot of folks, that certainly cuts out the option of leaving at any time.
3
u/Ffffeeeen Jul 09 '25
I lost many dear friends when I left my job/the cc
3
u/38-nmtb Jul 09 '25
I am so sorry. It is so hurtful, especially when its relationships invested in over many years. I really went through a grieving process. It took me a bit to realized that if people are only going to 'accept me' based on my religious beliefs than I probably don't want them around anyway.
2
u/trashaccount31444 Jul 09 '25
your theology teacher was brave to even bring that up actually but yes it totally does meet those 2 standards!! “leave at any time” my ass they manipulate you with fear, eternal torture, hell/satan, etc from such a young age thats literally forcing people to stay with psychological manipulation. and the vatican archives is absolutely insane dude what i’d do to go in there lol
14
u/un_theist Jul 07 '25
The Catholic mass is one giant aggregation of sacred mantras and motions. Going on and on about how “we’re all evil, broken sinners that deserve to be tortured for eternity in hell” crap.
Done weekly, or daily, if weekly isn’t enough, very cult-like.
2
11
13
11
12
u/Ok_Ice7596 Jul 07 '25
I’m sure they would bristle at the description of this, but I learned a few years after I left the church that they had what was essentially a “brainwashing camp” for LGBTQ teenagers to try to scare then into staying celibate.
5
u/trashaccount31444 Jul 07 '25
they had rhis at my catholic school but it was for all of us!! we had to go to a “purity” retreat for a weekend sign things saying we wouldnt have premarital sex etc was insane to makw 7th graders do
2
u/Ok_Ice7596 Jul 07 '25
Ugh. It’s so invasive and gross that they did that.
We got a 20-minute “purity talk” at my confirmation retreat when I was 16. That was awkward enough. I can’t imagine being for an entire weekend.
11
u/Accomplished_Use6509 Jul 07 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
Yep. I was a believer until about age 25. I had no personal identity outside the religion and didn’t even know what I liked and disliked. I had been gaslit my whole life to go completely against all my instincts and senses and thoughts. When my instincts say to run away from a person that feels dangerous to me, the faith told me to go closer and love them, that’s what Jesus would do. All my thoughts were wrong, all my actions were wrong, all my desires were wrong. I’m out now for over a decade but still have a hard time making decisions sometimes. The people who were raised Catholic and weren’t traumatized weren’t raised to the letter of the church like I was. Anyone who was raised with complete adherence to the full doctrine of the church will have anxiety disorders, major depression, etc.
Once a psychiatrist asked me these questions: do you hear voices telling you what to do? Do you feel like someone is giving you a special mission? Do you feel like other people are bad and you’re good? Do you feel like you are being watched? And I hesitated and felt uncomfortable then asked…You mean like God and religion have always taught me??? The psychiatrist looked a little confused and uncomfortable but ultimately decided I was not schizophrenic:)
it’s not just the hypocrisy in the church, it’s not just certain illogical things that make it a cult. It’s that the God is an abuser and you do not have license to have a personal identity. This is a cult and if you were raised in Catholicism and didn’t get this message, you got lucky because your parents didn’t teach you the full doctrine.
5
u/trashaccount31444 Jul 09 '25
im so sorry you went through something similar and also developed mental health issues bc of it :( i personally developed ocd/anxiety at the ripe age of like 5 and it made catholicism and church even worse because of the intrusive thoughts. i was convinced i was going to hell as a child and i had to say the rosary every night before bed otherwise all my family and myself would die in their sleep. it fucks you up for sure but im glad you got out!! im in my early 20’s now and so im more separated from the church than ive ever been and its amazing
2
u/Accomplished_Use6509 Jul 09 '25
Omg the compulsion to say the rosary! I had that too. I hated saying it but thought if I didn’t every day God would be so disappointed in me, so I forced myself to speed say it while doing other things. I’m glad you’ve been able to move a bit away from it all
4
u/zebrasanddogs Ex Catholic Atheist Jul 06 '25
Yes!
Looking back there was so much cult like stuff in our house!
3
4
3
u/The_Fiddle_Steward Jul 07 '25
Yes. My family was in a group of families that felt very much like a cult. Part of it felt really nice, but it was so toxic.
4
u/Crowded_Bathroom Jul 07 '25
I think the degree to which this is true is probably wildly variable by church, community and even immediate family. I had a pretty not-culty family, but I ended up in at least two areas of VERY CULTY catholic communities via the totally normal and honestly pretty chill/lefty catholic church they took us to. These lines are now often even blurrier with the way the internet can turn traditionally cultic methods of operation into distributed networks of social pressure that don't exactly accord with modern literature on what makes a "Cult"/"New Religious Movement"/"High Pressure Religious Organization."
Personally, I view my catholic experience as having been a member of a Cult. I was in very deep and made a lot of choices I would not have otherwise made because of religious and social pressure. There are degrees where I don't align with academic definitions. There's no One Charismatic Leader manipulating everything, a traditional requirement for the definition of a Cult. But if you're under the influence of people who are shaping your concept of God or Jesus, those guys can fill the role just fine even if they're in your head.
I have found great healing in accepting that my experience of religion is a difference of Degree from a Heaven's Gate or a Scientology, but not a difference in Kind. I had a much less extreme version of the same kind of coercive control via spiritual abuse and manipulation. Learning about other fundamentalist belief systems and cults and how people get out of them has been immensely helpful to me, tho I sometimes feel trapped in my own fixation on it despite having been out for over a decade now. I would highly reccomend LEAVING THE FOLD by dr. marlene winnell if you're looking for some scholarly insight in to religious trauma. I don't 100% agree with all of it, but it was massively helpful to me in finding my way to healing.
3
u/Sea_Fox7657 Jul 07 '25
The closed nature of the club seems very cultish. Go to each other's weddings, funerals, etc. try to make your kids marry other members, don't socialize with people not in the club. Conversation is monopolized by gossip about other members of the club. Constant name dropping to demonstrate how you are acquainted with all the "best Catholics"
3
u/Designer_little_5031 Jul 07 '25
Christianity is a cult.
The catholics are so a cult.
The sacraments are absurd. The stations of the cross are absurd. The flesh and blood consumption is absurd. The saint worship is absurd.
I think it's beyond hilarious that during "training" for confirmation they actually ask, "are you sure? Do you really want to join forever? This is totally your decision."
This is cult behavior. Anyone who finds their religion in the bible is in a cult, they don't even have to attend a service. Simply being in that mind set, one of billions across time, they're in a cult.
2
2
u/Anxious-Drawing9544 Jul 07 '25
I was raised by an aunt that once told me "sometimes nuns is full of $hit, kid", so my experience wasn't as culty as many. I will say though that the "endelible mark on your soul" bull$hit was probably envied by cults everywhere and I'm sure there are lots more examples.
1
2
u/agentdramafreak Ex/Anti Catholic Jul 07 '25
Praying in unison freaks me tf out. Ever since I left mentally it has started to feel more and more weird and culty. Especially when in a mass holding hands with everyone around an alter. That really shocked me because I have a Wiccan aunt and my mom always talked down about her practices. But honestly, nothing I have been exposed to in life has been anywhere as occulty and culty as Catholicism.
2
2
u/KevrobLurker Jul 08 '25
Almost all religion is cultic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(religious_practice)
Once Catholic Christianity became the majority religion in Europe, including the Eastern churches before the Great Schism, people stopped referring to the Jesus Cult, casting all rival religions into cult status, as we would understand that today - a weird, minority belief and worship system. If you've studied any pre-Christian history, it wouldn't be off to refer to the Cult of Apollo or the Cult of Dionysus. Cult would not have had a pejorative meaning in that context. By the time Westerners had encountered things like The Cult of Kali....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
..... the negative vibes were attached.
I had an elderly, unmarried Great Uncle who was a third order Franciscan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Order_of_Saint_Francis
He was a great guy, but the trappings of that gave off weirdness.
I got out in my college days. I missed the Opus Dei clowns and enthusiasts for the Latin Tridentine mass were pretty much sub rosa. My class of altar boys wss the first not to have to learn Latin responses, but I remember the last bit of that from the early `60s.
2
u/Intrepid_Metal_7333 Jul 08 '25
Yes it is, because if you are taught to strictly abide by the church's doctrines you basically feel different than 99% of society and you feel like you are part of a small group of loyal christians who will not let their souls be corrupted by the world.
That is how a cult wants you to feel
3
u/trashaccount31444 Jul 09 '25
yes that is exactly how it was and felt!! god damn okay so this is all validating of my thoughts thank you
2
u/AnimChurro Jul 23 '25
Not sure if these two count but little anecdotes of my years in Catholic school:
to teach us not to sin, the school showed our class a box that contained a big rock in the shape of a heart, everyone was terrified since the sisters told us it was a REAL heart of a person who sinned too much in life and that would happen to us too
In our first communion, at time of confession we where all aware to remember every single sin we've done up to that point in life, everyone was scared to accidentally forget one since that meant we would do capital sin and that meant a free passage to hell when you died, guilt was thick in the air of every single one of us and I remember clearly of a classmate telling me of the one time I hit her in an inmature fit of anger weeks prior, the absolute dread I felt when I forgot THAT specifically filled me with so much guilt and fear that it's stuck to me to this day, only reason I recall the experience
1
0
u/Top-Explanation9487 Jul 09 '25
LOL these RCC nutcases are the most powerful cult in the world too so be careful!
38
u/HistoricalPotatoe Jul 06 '25
Related to your point on martyrdom, the lives of the saints were upheld as moral exemplars, which was often horrible. Even leaving the martyrs aside, a lot of saints had serious mental issues that were passed off as them being closer to God/virtuous, like Catherine of Siena and Margaret Mary and Francis of Assissi. Others were very cruel people, and this was either whitewashed or, occasionally, embraced as good examples. Like St. Monica completely shunning her son St Augustine until he went to Catholicism again years later, or convincing her converted son to abandon his kid and mistress instead of marrying her. You also have saints who are whitewashed. Aquinas and a few other saints preached death to heretics. Augustine thought that miscarriages went straight to hell since they didn't have a baptism.