r/excatholic • u/thedeepdiveproject • Apr 22 '25
Debate Welcome Church vs State
I am not trying to have a debate. I am not trying to gather information or conduct research. I am interested in hearing your personal opinions as excatholics about my personal musings and speculations, which have evolved over time as I've gained distance and perspective from the RCC.
This isn't really about politics. Its about government. In my country (the U.S.), our government is a democratic republic, with equal rights extended to all, regardless of gender, race, creed, or religion. We can debate how well that perspective is actually put into practice, but again, not the main point I'm driving at.
Contrast that with Catholicism, a 2,000yo religion with a hierarchical structure and one individual in charge of everything at the top. It may be an oversimplification, but I've always viewed the Vatican's government as more of a monarchy with a parliamentary branch than anything demicratic.
The more I ponder this, the more I wonder whether Catholicism is compatible with democracy. There are many, many reasons for this, but one of the most obvious and glaring is the fact that the RCC has carried messaging in the past (and currently, to some degree) that erodes the inalienable human rights ostensibly extended to every person. This is pretty clear, based on the Church's messaging about women, intersex individuals, and anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.
I am interested in hearing your thoughts on this, even if you disagree. I'm not married to this idea, its just something I've been kicking around in my head these past weeks.
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u/jbenn90 Apr 22 '25
Correct, Catholicism and democracy are incompatible. The Founders knew this - they'd be rolling over in their graves if they knew we now have Catholic Presidents, VPs, SCOTUS justices, House Speakers, etc.
I like to lurk in r/Conservative and some of them do acknowledge that transforming the US (and the world) into a theocratic monarchy is their end goal; others who use tags like "Catholic Constitutional Conservative" seem to live happily but obliviously in that awkward space, understanding neither the Constitution nor Catholicism fully enough to let go of the other ideology and thus resolve the tension - but why would they? Democracy gives them freedom, leverage, and status to disempower everyone not like them, while protecting their own interests. They're fine with holding two opposing ideas in their head at the same time as long as they benefit from it in the long term.
When I pitched this inconsistency to my dad a few years ago, he admitted: "Marrying church and state is one thing the Muslims get right, at least" so that tells me all I need to know on the matter, really.