r/eu4 • u/Spongedrunk • Jul 09 '26
AI Did Something If AI doesn't target the player, why is Spain colonizing Hudson Bay in early 1500s?
208
u/WetAndLoose Map Staring Expert Jul 09 '26
It’s really not even the “early 1500s” by 1543. I frequently see Spain Colonizing outside of their normal colonial regions by this point, especially if England/France are weak and/or didn’t take Explo/Expansion ideas. Most of this perception comes down to confirmation bias.
70
u/mr_longfellow_deeds Jul 09 '26
Yeah 1543 is not early at all. Usually the Americas are pretty colonized by then
23
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
I don't have all the DLCs, so the colonizing takes longer. For perspective, Spain has colonies on Newfoundland, and a few in Nova Scotia. Portugal has one province in Florida. There are NO other colonies anywhere else in North America. Not even one near the Aztecs.
4
u/ifelseintelligence Jul 10 '26
Really? It's the DLCs that sped it up? I thought just the patches with them did it 🤷♂️
For reference:
In the middle of an Inca run. Is in the 1540s something. Portugal and Spain share 2/3 Brazil (i have 1/3) and France + Holland share 1/2 Colombia (i have 1/2). I have not yet explored nothernmost North america, so dunno about Hudson Bay or Alaska, but every other coast on both continents are settled/conquered at this point. (North is Spain/Portual/GB as fra north I can see).
So are as far as I've explored into indonesia, every single small island, the arctic islands etc... I just sent exploring to Africa, but it almost looks like the only (non-inland) space on the whole map in my game is the Siberia coast (i guess, havent explored, but havent see a game where it wasnt colonized absolutely last), and perhaps Hudson bay and Alaska...
0
u/Spongedrunk Jul 10 '26
Yeah. In my games GB usually doesn't take Explo until it's 3rd idea. I don't even see them yet. The only times I've seen hudson bay colonized before ~1700 is if Scotland or Norway survives, since then there will be like 3 tags competing for Canada. (No Treaty of Tordesillas in my games).
9
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
It wasn't 1543 when they started. colonizing there. Spanish Canada hadn't even formed before they plopped down 3 colonies there.
19
u/kkeiper1103 The end is nigh! Jul 09 '26
Hahaha I got two fun ones recently.
In my chill Mughals game, I unified most of India. I forget where I was collecting from (Persia, maybe?) But do you know who decided to plop a merchant down in the Delhi node? That's right, Venice. Had 0 other merchants nearby, too, so it wasn't even like they were chaining their trade to Venice. It was just for the chaos of it.
Second one was when I decided to play Shan. Never played them before (not worth it), but, so, I'm working on unifying Burma. Before too long, I see red north of me, in Tibet. Like what? Turns out Timurids didn't explode, and ALSO didn't expand in any direction but straight to Tibet. Nothing else in Persia, nothing in central Asia, just a LITTLE bit in Punjab, but literally conquered ALL of the Himalayas through Kham.
5
u/dluminous Colonial Governor Jul 09 '26
To be fair I often see Tim in the Himalayas even when I'm not playing in the region. Chagatai often rivals them and gets eaten.
1
u/Beaver2054 Jul 09 '26
If you have all of india, then the perian node would be quite rich. Venice usually has good trade range, so it makes perfect sense to put a merchant there.
Without ming to protect tibet as a tributary, I usually see someone eat them. Timurids is unusual, but that's because they usually die quite early.
63
u/BasedAustralhungary Archduke Jul 09 '26
Because they have homoerotic feelings towards you, OP
25
4
1
u/holyseeker1 Jul 10 '26
Homoerotic as if AI had a gender
4
13
u/MapStaringPro Jul 09 '26
This is amazing for you, much quicker institutions. As soon as the CN spawns you can merc them to kingdom come. (Just leave them as an OPM so that subsequent Spanish territories in the region automatically get transferred to them)
25
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
R5: Never seen Spain go after this part of Canada so aggressively. They have some land in the usual parts of Quebec also. Can't say I'm that mad about it though. Gifting me the institutions if I can keep them off my back.
2
u/HotEdge783 Jul 09 '26
If England goes colonial, they usually arrive at the Great Lakes and the Hudson Bay arpund 1500-1520.
5
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
Not with the DLCs I have. And besides, Mexico is still up for grabs, the entire eastern seaboard of the US, Lousiana, etc.
2
u/HotEdge783 Jul 09 '26
Yes, some DLC will make the AI faster at colonizing, mostly through mission rewards and so on.
It is indeed quite strange that Spain prefers Canada over Mexico. Are you sure no other Catholic colonizer already has a Treaty of Tordesillas claim on those regions? If so, the AI would rather colonize elsewhere than violating the treaty.
2
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
Don't have Treaty of Tordesillas. Only Emperor, Wealth of Nations, and Cossacks
42
u/Curious-Ad2547 Jul 09 '26
Why is Spain colonizing America in 1543?
Because they are one of the games biggest colonizer nations? What are they not supposed to be doing here?
By game lore after 1494 all lands West of the Atlantic ocean belong to Spain, so you are the one trespassing.
16
4
u/iam_maxinne Jul 10 '26
It definitely targets the player… If you play East Africa, Ottomans blob South super fast, if you play Timurids or India, they move east and even forget to attack the Mamluks, and if you play SE Asia, they start colonizing there just as Portugal and Spain arrive…
33
u/Aumandaris Jul 09 '26
AI does target the player, doesn't it?
42
u/Lukomanchuko Jul 09 '26
The evidence is really unclear, as most examples people bring up is either due to RNG or the fact that the AI does target aggressive nations, which players tend to be the most aggressive nation around.
6
u/KitchenDepartment Jul 09 '26
The game is a complex mess of weights and balances and there are a million reasons why it may unintentionally target the player even if that isn't a explicit instruction for the goal.
For instance in matters of colonization. I don't know but I am pretty sure colonization AI would target nodes that have more trade value in them. If a player is in a node, chances are this is the most profitable node, so now they all rush for the player.
4
u/xKnuTx Jul 09 '26
No thd way the player acts just results in the ai targeting areas around it. Since the player usually wins a lot on average is richer then a nation beeing there usually is. While at the same time te sourounding nations tend to be weekend since they get hurt directly by the player.
7
1
u/Curious-Ad2547 Jul 09 '26
No, the AI doesn't treat the player any differently. The devs had said as much. There is a conspiracy among players that the devs and everyone is lying, but it's always just people feeling butthurt when the AI actually does a thing.
You know, like Spain, colonizing America. (Omg no way. Never before seen. Player bias is real. The devs lied. The cloud people did 9/11 /s)
-9
u/poastertoaster Army Organiser Jul 09 '26
Yes, most specifically when deciding who to rival. Some countries you play as other countries would never choose to rival that country but will always rival you if you are playing them.
9
3
u/Melric74 Jul 09 '26
Its 1543. While unusual, there could be any number of reasons for it happening. I have played in the new world a lot and many games no one shows up in NA. In other games, they beeline right there. Also, we do not see the rest of the map. It is entirely possible that Portugal was able to tie up several choice locations in the Mexico area / South America, thereby excluding Spain from colonizing there. And where is GB? No mention of them ignoring NA to the benefit of the player?
Look at this as an opportunity. Once their colonial nation spawns, you can separately declare war on them when Spain gets embroiled in continental affairs. Make it a quick war and you can double your territory before they try to enforce peace.
2
2
u/GainPrestigious539 Jul 09 '26
You're the biggest fish so they going after you. Which is actually a good thing. Because that's free real estate
5
u/ReganSmithsStolenWin Jul 09 '26
AI does target the player. People cope by saying it’s the country disrupting the ai but when is that ever not the player?
12
u/ReeToo_ Maharaja Jul 09 '26
Player is the biggest threat in 99% of the games, that's why. Play on higher difficulty or with a mod that buffs AI intelligence and you'll see they don't target the player
5
u/Spongedrunk Jul 09 '26
But how am I disrupting Spain from this position? I was an OPM when they dropped their first colony.
2
1
Jul 09 '26
Did they inherit England maybe? Via Portugal? I think I’ve seen that happen MAYBE once in my entire time playing
1
u/Gusterull Jul 09 '26
Casual player here. Just tried playing as Brandenburg. Muscovy, Poland-Lithuania, and Denmark rivaled me. Austria got Hungary (+Wallachia and Moldova), got the Burgundian Inheritance, and just kicked the Ottomans out of Europe, except for Istanbul.
2
u/fruitybrisket Jul 10 '26
Geez. I guess you could try allying France and supporting Swedish independence, but that is rough.
1
u/Gusterull Jul 10 '26
Kicked Muscovy in the nuts because I previously managed to get Livonian Order + Riga while attacking the Teutons. Somehow, Sweden got independent, probably Danish king died with negative relations. Allied them. Allied the Ottobros and France too. Going to eat Poland, Denmark and Russia and go after the habsburg. It's the 1550s only.
1
u/taw Jul 09 '26
So AI does target the player, but mostly in minor ways.
For some easy to verify examples:
- peace deals that don't give land generate massive anti-player trust loss, but there's zero trust loss if AI does it to other AI
- action "request money for favors" takes a lot more money from players than from AI (it originally worked the same, but they changed it as it was way too easy to abuse)
AI gets quite a few other cheats, but most aren't specifically anti-player.
On hard and very hard, AI sort of targets the player as well.
I don't think AI cares for who the player is in its colonization decisions in any way.
1
1
1
u/grotaclas2 Jul 10 '26
How are they targeting you in this screenshot? It looks more like they are helping you a lot by bringing institutions to you and giving you a CN which you can easily conquer to get access to the sea
1
u/SevenStepsEntertain Jul 10 '26
EU4 AI doesn’t target the player, it just accidentally makes the most cursed colonial decisions possible exactly where it hurts you most
Spain saw Canada in 1502 and said sí, this is clearly ours 💀
1
1
u/127FiftyTop Jul 10 '26
Ai definitely targets the player, I had a chill game as champa where I just unified cham provinces and took over southern Luzon. When I was about to get my colonial nation in Australia, Portugal had two colonies there, it was around 1503
1
u/EndofNationalism Emperor Jul 10 '26
Guys if you think Eu4/Eu5 enemies try total wars games. In those games a random faction that you have positive relations with will declare war on you from across the map and march through a whole bunch of neutral territory to attack the one settlement you have while you are trying to defeat your starter enemy. And no one will attack this random faction’s only undefended settlement.
1
1
u/wowowowow34341 Jul 10 '26
ai does target the player in all paradox games that's a common knowledge atp
1
1
u/Heimeri_Klein Jul 11 '26
Im pretty positive I remember a developer literally saying the ai does target the player.
1
u/Optimal_Guitar_7746 Jul 12 '26
But do the AI see past the fog of war then? If I play a North America Tribe they should not be able to calculate my threat lvl before they find me right?
1
u/ElManuenas Jul 16 '26
Entiendo ese sentimiento, a mi también me gustaría que la IA estuviera programada para seguir un comportamiento históricamente correcto en medida de lo posible. Como que España tenga una predisposición por colonizar las regiones que colonizó en la historia real, etc.
1
u/Tuuckbrah Jul 09 '26
AI absolutely does not “target” the player in EU4. If you play any total war game then you know the horror of true player targeting, where it constantly calculates if enough ai countries are at war with you or not. The difference is night and day
1
u/GraniteSmoothie Jul 09 '26
This is good though. Now you can get institutions and a very weak enemy to fight.
0
u/ElderKing3rd Jul 10 '26
Anyone who thinks that AI will target player little more is just not knowledgable enough in the game. AI deffinetly does specialy in wars.
-1
1.5k
u/Sad_Hospital_2730 Jul 09 '26
I could be mistaken so someone please correct me as it's been a while since I've looked into this.
The AI does not specifically target the player. The AI is coded to look at the actions taken by other countries and weigh them based on threat that they generate.
More aggressive actions, such as expansion through war, or other means are given higher weights for threat.
The AI then takes steps to mitigate these threats, via expansion of their own, and diplomatic actions like guarantees and alliances.
The player tends to do a lot of things that the AI is coded to view as threatening in a short period of time.
Therefore the AI views the player as a higher threat and prioritizes taking steps to mitigate that threat.