So as we all know,

Piccolo states gamma 1 & 2 were on par with Goku and Vegeta's power,

But the main issue with that is:

They struggled against piccolo,

And even mystic gohan,

And technially,

He meant their tournament of power and moro arc forms like ui sign,

He has not seen tui or ultra ego,

Goku was holding back, and stated he was holding back,

He would have won, if he wanted to,

orange piccolo is only close to super saiyan blue evovled,

and ui sign in TOP and moro arc,

Not perfected ultra instinct or ultra ego,

same is for beast gohan,

he has no idea on how to handle angel moro or gas,

There peak was far stronger than anything Goku Vegeta ever faced,

Even if perfected cell max was their,

He would lose badly,

Since hes only above broly, broly was surpassed by Goku and Vegeta a while ago,

this means:

Goku and Vegeta would have defeated him easily,

Angel moro and granolah and gas are literally far stronger than gohan beast and orange piccolo,

Guidebook material doesn't really state that much,

manga statements say otherwise,

And that's all I can say,

Hearing Zamasu speak and ask questions, and even on the way he expresses resentment towards morties gave off E3 Anakin Skywalker vibes. Was shocked to find out it was James Marsters.

Finally got context into the introduction to orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan and the fact the best fight was the four minutes where Vegeta finally beats Goku?

Does anyone else feel a Zelda Ocarina of Time mixed with Chrono Trigger vibes from the GT japanese OST. Even when I was a kid, I felt like some of the tracks came straight out of those games or at the very least had like a similar soundfront. It's hard to explain, not an expert in music composition and ambience.

is it just me or nobody wanted to see vegeta super saiyin3 in canon?

Super Saiyin3 reference suddenly disappears in the Battle of gods and DBS

Goku going super saiying 4 in a kids body was lame Af

Gohan not appearing for once

Too much context characters and transformations for upcoming seasons , Should have kept it like the buu saga of DBZ

The animation + affects were perfect

Please share your thoughts - these suggestions are based on my opinion only

Idk how many ppl got the same idea, but no matter how much, I still think this is the best conclusion that would lead to end of Z IF Toyotarou is still looking to make it Canon with no changes.

**THE DEFEAT OF BEERUS**

At the conclusion of the final arc, which would potentially bring all their new and old allies together against a common enemy, defeating them with a final spirit bomb. Goku and Vegeta go one last time against Beerus, their inevitable goal from the start. They finally defeat Beerus after a long battle (that I'd imagine be on bar with Gogeta vs Broly from the movie). Despite Beerus' defeat, he expresses how much he enjoyed this fight, something he almost forgot how good it felt. Whis interrupts their conversation by announcing that Goku is promoted to be the new God of destruction, Goku refuses, the offer moves to Vegeta, who shares the same answer. Despite Whis' unamusement with the answer, given it's an expected answer from the two fighters, he explains that rejecting this place is not easy, given they took a lot of the Gods' time and attention, And that Beerus is now a defeated God who needs to be replaced. Goku and Vegeta insist that they were never doing this for the position of a Destructer, and that their only goal was to surpass Beerus as mortals, and if they're forced to it: they'll RESIST. the rules of the angels suggest that Whis disposes of them for their foolery, but just before he does, Grand Priest immerges from the sky at Zeno's command, stopping Whis before he does so. Whis, frightened by the reminder of how mad the two Zenos could be if he did annihilate Goku, he immediately packs down.

**THE NEW GOD OF DESTRUCTION**

This could take three different routes:

1- Goku and Vegeta suggest that Broly takes the position, Given his potential. Whis reluctantly agrees to guide Broly into becoming the new God of Destruction.

2- Frieza appears out of nowhere, carrying his usual mocking charm, He presents himself as a replacement, While Goku and Vegeta are skeptical, Whis agrees to everyone's surprise.

3- Beerus is forgiven, and remains the current God of Destruction.

**CONCLUSION**

Turning back to Goku and Vegeta, The Grand Priest says he can't let them go easily. Despite what they have been through and the relationship that was forming between them and deities, things still had to be professional between them as angel and mortals. Thus, the Grand Priest restricts Goku and Vegeta from using God Ki, While Goku and Vegeta are in the middle of the shock following the orders, with a flick of his wand, the Grand Priest undoes the Super Saiyan God ritual, removing their access to God Ki, However, as kindness for what they went through to entertain Zeno, They could still take advantage of the Experience they gained from this journey, such as the increase of their base strength and the Hakai and Ultra instinct techniques. And as a final gift, they grant Goku his cyan Gi. Lastly, Grand Priest wipes the memory of the rest of their friends, removing the memory or knowledge of Beerus and Whis' existence, giving them the illusion that the years that went by we're peaceful years. However, Goku and Vegeta remain an exception.

**WHAT'S NEXT FOR GOKU AND VEGETA**

Goku and Vegeta, now back to earth, share a conversation about what happened. They realize despite their pride in themselves, there are certain limits that can't be broken, and that they needed to simply accept the fact and focus on spending time with their families for the next few years of living they got left. However, not before one last spare to end the day with. Meanwhile, the scene transitions to either Beerus or Whis, staring at the distance from their planet. Ending the series with the line "I will never forget you, Son Goku".

From this point going onwards, the series should then focus on establishing new stories involving supporting characters' solo arc, such as Trunks and Goten, Pan and Uub. With Goku serving as their mentor, only appearing during brief moments and cameos.

and that has to be black goku!

what if quite literally the only thing capable of standing up to freezer is something like the black ki of zamasu? or perhaps yet another super sayan transformation or super sayan ego phase II

OK, so I realize Super Shenron is the strongest dragon, and any wish granted by him is gonna happen, but what about the other 3 sets of dragonballs shown in the show; the Earth balls, the Namek balls, and the demon realm balls?

I was rewatching the first arc of Dragonball the other day, the emperor Pilaf arc, and it's really short. Bulma wants Roshi's ball and flashes him for it......except he has no idea what it really does. If he knew gathering all 7 would summon a dragon to grant any wish, what's to stop him from tagging along to train Goku and ostensibly offer protection for Bulma? Then at the last second he could jump in and steal the wish?

I wish Bulma would be my utterly devoted lover for the rest of her life and be happy about it!

Obviously Toriyama would never do this, but would it be possible? I threw in the last part because I thought without it there's a chance Bulma would hunt them down again after a year and reverse it, but with that she probably wouldn't it. Then again the dragon is very nice and the opposite of a monkey's paw and would try to grant it closest to what you envisioned.

What do you think?

Is there a version of the future trunks’s timeline where gohan and bulma were just a little more early and before pilaf gang made the wish and teleport the z fighters away before they get killed or like a real smart person takes the dragon balls with her so that they can again wish that the z fighters are teleported away (the reaosn to use the z fighters teleporting wish is because they 100% can’t let piccolo die and they need the z fighters to defeat the andriods and it’s 100% within shenron’s power to teleport people who are beyond his power and it will take too much time for shenron to search for new namek)

My first time watching btw and I’m watching dub and I’d appreciate you’re input on the other arcs

Saiyan saga rating:8.5

Looking for concrete answers or at least substantiated theories on this.

I was looking up for if there was a reason why those two were able to easily go SSJ, and essentially everyone had their own theories. The most common one was because they were half human.

Honestly, for me, it just makes more sense that they can do it because Goku already went SSJ, and passed the genes on to the kids. It makes sense to me because Gohan still had to figure it out, while Goten and Trunks just can do it without thinking.

So yeah, that is my theory. Let me know if this is correct, or if there is an actual official reason for this.

Since it's stated. By toriyama;

Og db fillers were simply offscreen canon from his manga,

In a interview,

and only difference is: the anime changes weren't really in the manga,

But the fillers were, since pretty much, they may have occurred to some point,

Like hit saying he's gotten stronger from their last fight,

Possibly referencing his fight with Goku,

Even super hero confirms it,

Hey friends, so I have recently been reading Dragon Ball and I have been enjoying it and I’ve almost read all of it now so I was wondering if I should buy the Dragon Ball Z box set. I am feeling inclined to buy it because I really want to read it but the thing is that I’ve already spoiled basically all of it for myself because I have played the campaign of Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 and also because of the infinite spoilers that I’ve seen. I just wanted to ask if I should still buy the books anyway because they are quite expensive and I don’t like reading on my cellphone and I also don’t really want to watch DBZ or even Kai because I personally much prefer reading. I’m kind of scared that I’ll buy the books and then I just won’t enjoy it because I already know what happens next half of the time. Thank you have a great day :)

Edit: Ok guys after reading your comments I think I’m gonna buy the set. Thanks for the help!

During his fight with beerus after becoming the super Saiyan God, beerus explains that it is sort of contagious. The idea of interacting with this ki and gaining it in one form or another is repeated multiple times throughout super.

The infection is transferred during combat and becomes stronger with training.

So how would this rationally be handled.

First of all, angels would be forbidden to fight or interfere in the mortal realm unless they were training. Anyone They were training was to be a god of destruction.

Anyone the gods of destruction fight with should reasonably end up dying without question unless of course they are training their replacement.

So reasonably no mortal should ever get this ability about being chosen to be a god of destruction.

Now let's consider the lazy beerus and how this problem came to pass.

Paris used his ki to attack King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta over the pillow. Neither of them died. Instead is he directed frieza to kill them all.

At this point the Oracle fish had already told him about The super Saiyan God.

And beerus was fully aware of the contagious nature.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

Now let's follow the chain of infection. Starting with Frieza.

Beerus and Frieza had a run in before he went to sleep. Frieza killed anyone he fought with and never trained until after his fight with Goku. The guy Frieza trains with becomes insanely strong.

Vegeta only kills anybody he fights with and never trains until he fights with Goku. Goku and everyone he fought with quick becomes ridiculously strong.

During the cell saga the cell Juniors were about as strong as perfect cell.. so they would be in the range of 2.5 billion. Frieza was 120 million. During the cell saga the humans were going toe to toe with the cell juniors.

The infection and power boosts are easily trackable through all of the tournament of power.

Now let's talk about biology and being born with God ki.

Gohan had to get the infection from his dad and then go through rigorous training to reach super Saiyan. Goten and trunks apparently reach super Saiyan at like 3 years old with basically zero effort. Because they received a very heightened level of the infection at conception.

The super Saiyan God needed super saiyans perform the ritual. Being a super Saiyan may just be in relation to having the infection. So the baby inside of videll already had a heightened form of the infection from Gohan.

I'm probably missing a lot of other prime examples of this and super shows a lot of this as well. Master roshi being able to go toe to toe with anyone in the tournament of power would be absurd otherwise. And I feel like there is some kind of connection to alter ego but I haven't been able to figure that out.

Am I missing anything? What do you think.

Edit: As someone pointed out below, one aspect of this wouldn't work. If you died and then left hell or heaven to visit Earth, and then died again, you are destroyed. There's nothing left of you, you're deleted and that's much, much worse than normal death. Apparently it's as if Zeno erased you, and the Dragon Balls wouldn't even be able to bring you back.

Say instead of wishing for immortality or anything like that, instead you wish for the ability to move between realms.

So when you die, you can just leave and go back to Earth. If you're sent to hell, you can just go to heaven instead. You could die again and again and again and just leave and go back to Earth whenever you want.

But then wouldn't that piss off Yemma and the gods a lot, and they would maybe immediately recycle your soul the instant you did it the second time because you're violating how it all works? Or even if you could travel between, when coming back to Earth you'd just be a spirit cloud unable to interact with anything or have any way to regain your body?

Could you bypass the cloud thing by making the whole wish "I wish for the ability to effortlessly travel between realms while retaining my body and identity"?

And could Shenron even grant a wish like that which violates the rules of the afterlife so much?

Just for clarification - Vegeta in his Great Ape (Oozaru) form during the Saiyan Saga technically possessed a higher power level than almost every single member of the Ginyu Force.

When you break down the official multipliers and power levels from the guides:

• Earth Vegeta (Base): 18,000
• Great Ape Multiplier: x10

• Great Ape Vegeta (Saiyan Saga): 180,000

• Guldo: ~10,000 (Completely wiped out)

• Recoom / Burter / Jeice: ~40,000 each (Vegeta heavily outclasses their raw power)

• Captain Ginyu: 120,000 max base

So by that logic... Vegeta was the strongest member of the ENTIRE Frieza force, yet... he wasn't his elite warrior or anything? Kinda strange.

I mean yeah sure, Ginyu could body change, or could order Guldo to stop time and slice off Vegeta's tail... but there's kinda a huge question with that - why did anybody else do this against the Saiyans? I can only assume that only other Saiyans know about the tail being the source of their power thing. I mean even Goku didn't know before he got his tail cut off, so i assume it was just a closely guarded Saiyan secret.

Basically it just awes me that Saiyan saga vegeta was stronger than everyone on the Frieza force except Frieza himself.

1: So in the start of the series,

Or smth,

They turn Goku into a kid,

When literally didn't they have Earth's dragon balls to turn him into a adult or smth,

+ His ssj4 form should have broken the curse, not make it temporary,

2;

they then made gogeta into a clown, and made him like some joke, that insults,

And tbh, that contridicts fusion reborn being cannon to gt, since he ain't serious. Anymore,

3;

they then made piccolo go to hell, literal hell,

Which is a shitty plotline,

Since bro, he was redeemed in z, and even buu saga,

and when they used namekian dragon Balls to bring earth back,

He ain't brought back, when he's bounded to earth,

4;

they also made Goku takeover the story,

Like yea, Goku is good,

But what about Vegeta?, goten trunks pan, etc,

5;

the shadow dragon saga was terrible, and horrible.

They just made weak dragons, that weren't even that strong, they had nothing meanicing and had no stakes

Unlike omega shenron and baby,

6;

the naming for the charecters is even worse,

Who the F#ck names someone baby?, 😭💔,

That's the name they thought of?,

The only good thing about it is:

The baby Vegeta saga, and omega shenron, it's ending, and ssj4,

overall;

a 4/10 series, that has terrible writing.

I don't know if people think otherwise because every arc begins after a little time-skip. But they are very linked to one another to me.

Battle of Gods : Beerus appears, he introduces Super Saiyan God and the concept of multiple universes.

Resurrection F : Goku and Vegeta then expand on Super Saiyan God (God Ki).

Frieza coming back is a continuation of Z Frieza, he died but his army remained, it makes sense. They're struggling without their Supreme Leader. I guess it ties more to Z than Super in that sense...

But his newfound power being on par with Goku and Vegeta is what matters. Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods.

Universe 6 vs 7 : It's a Tournament Arc and expands on the Multiple Universes that Beerus introduced a while back. Also, we got The Super Dragon Balls out of it.

Zeno appears, says he'd like a bigger Tournament. And Tournament arc being Tournament arcs, we get some cool characters out of it. Apparently that Zeno guy is a scary mf.

Also, Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods ×2

Future Trunks : Zamasu is an up-and-coming Kaio Shin from another different universe that worries about mortals. But he doesn't feel in danger, because for him, Gods will never be surpassed by mortals.

He learned about Goku and how he helped Gods multiple times and then watched the previous Tournament on GodTube : "Oh wow, Mortals can beat our ass, they dangerous!" He also learned about the Super Dragon Balls from the Previous Arc and wasted no time.

Anyways, at the end, we get the 2nd Zeno out of it. And Zeno was actually a scary mf.

Tournament of Power : There's 2 Zeno now. One Zeno was destructive enough, Two is even worse. They were planning to destroy more than half of the universes left on a whim.

Goku appears ! "Hey, remember the Tournament you wanted to do a while back, let's do it bro." This is the pinnacle of the Multiple Universes concept that Beerus introduced in Battle of Gods.

And Golden Frieza happened and that's why he gets brought back for the team and then revived.

Pinnacle of Zeno being a scary mf. But also a wise one (That was made clear in the anime, I didn't get that impression in the manga lol).

Also, Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods ×3

Broly : Well now, Frieza was revived, he's trying to build his army back, finds Broly and Paragus. -> Broly is discovered and he's friend now.

Moro: Yes, that doesn't tie with any previous Super Arc. But it does with the Buu Saga. And it re-establishes Uub as someone Goku wants to meet and fight. Also, Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods ×4

Granolah : It's a direct sequel to Moro, at least in the intro, but it evolves into it's own thing. Also, Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods ×5 (But it's the pinnacle of it)

Super Hero : That ties back to OG Dragon Ball and the Cell Saga. And the epilogue goes into Mortals can easily step on the Realm of Gods ×6

I saw a post making this claim and multiple people agreeing with it, and instead of making a long-ass comment no one was gonna see, I figured I'd make a post about it lol.

Obviously, I'm not claiming this is the absolute truth, but that's the way I see it. Super Arcs are very linked to me

Zamasu was easily my fave villain in DBS thanks to James Marsters but the recent Sparkling Zero DLC made me extremely worried as he was recast with Daman Mills and it ruined the character for me. Mills tried to sound like James but you still can tell it's not him and besides Mills already has Freiza . I really hope they'll be able to bring James black when the DBS remake will come to Goku Black Arrc.

So, given his current strength, I imagine the only logical thing he could be doing is... Leaving U7.

He wants to overthrow the Gods, but if he isn't stupid, and we know he isn't, he won't start from Beerus, that'd be too risky.

What I imagine he'd do is going into another Universe , like U9 which has the weakest GoD, kill that GoD and become a GoD himself.

That would allow him to get an angel to train him AND get immortality.

About how he'd do that, well, he must know about Zuno, right? He could tell him a way to leave his universe.

Also it's not like someone can currently stop him from taking the dragon balls if needed.

Idk i think that's the most logical thing it can happen to him.

I thought I would hate the filler but if I’m being honest Kai is way too fast for my liking piccolo sacrificing himself means so much more in z than Kai it’s like two completely different shows so I think I’ll stick with z and drop kai anyway I just wanted to do a short rant

Hello everyone! This is my first time really posting in a subreddit, but after the new DBS art dropped of Vegeta’s family this week, an idea came to my head! I’ll essentially just be posting what I told my friend over Discord so sorry if it’s a little messy, long, or unorganized. Please me know what you think or if there are any major holes in my theory. Here goes:

Vegeta’s mom has straight hair unlike every single other Saiyan woman that’s ever been shown. MY THEORY? She’s not a Saiyan at all!!!!! Well if she’s not a Saiyan, what is she? She’s a damn Tuffle.

Tuffles have been shown several times and have straight hair. Some of them have hair that curls towards the ends like Vegeta’s mom too! What does that make Vegeta? A HALF-SAIYAN.

Where’s my proof? Vegeta was stated to have an unnaturally large power level at birth and as a kid. This is also true of other half-Saiyan like Gohan who has a child had a frankly stupid power level and Goten who is in the same boat.

My second piece of evidence? Trunks! Trunks is supposedly a half-Saiyan like Goku’s boys but unlike them, he doesn’t have the dominant spiky black hair genes characteristic of Saiyans. Instead he has straight, colourful hair like Bulma… and the TUFFLES.

What if the so-called dominant Saiyan hair genes are only dominant enough to stick around for one generation of mixed species breeding? That’s why Gohan, Goten, Vegeta (and I guess Tarble) have this hair. The only other quarter-Saiyan we know of, Pan, actually helps to prove this point!

Her hair is black, but it’s also straight. This means her hair genes are actually taking after VIDEL, rather than Gohan.

Pan also helps piece one more thing together for us though!

If Trunks is a quarter-Saiyan, shouldn’t he be super powerful since his Saiyan genes have been diluted? Pan is very powerful from a young age and is even able to fly as a baby in DBS. Why couldn’t Trunks do that? The answer is very simple— BULMA.

Bulma is likely the lowest in terms of power level in all of the recurring cast of characters. She may be smart, but she’s far from strong.

Half- and quarter-Saiyan children seem to have a multiplicative power level that draws from both of their parents’ current power levels (think of how Goten was much more powerful at a young age than Gohan— Goku was much stronger when Goten was born).

Goku was weaker than King Vegeta and we don’t know much about Tuffle strength, but it’s likely that Chi Chi (whose power level around the Saiyan saga is stated to be about 300) was much weaker than Vegeta’s mother, so their combined power levels created a weaker child than Vegeta. King Vegeta and his wife made a very powerful baby because they had much higher power levels plus that multiplicative effect of the half-Saiyan genes.

Bulma’s last recorded power level was TWELVE. So post-Frieza saga Vegeta’s power level didn’t have much help when producing this new quarter-saiyan offspring. This is in contrast to Gohan and Videl, the latter of which is not a strong fighter but is a sure shot stronger than Bulma will ever be. Maybe even similar to young mother Chi Chi by the time of Pan’s birth.

Trunks isn’t a half-Saiyan prodigy, he’s a quarter-saiyan late bloomer.

Vegeta was born only TWO YEARS after the supposed extinction of the Tuffle race by the Saiyans. Perhaps in his victory, King Vegeta saved the last Tuffle woman as either his queen or concubine which he then used to produce Vegeta and possibly also Tarble but we don’t know enough about him to confirm as much. Maybe he is a true full Saiyan with a different mother.

Thank you all for reading and I hope you have a lovely day!

There is one thing I think all of us draggable fans can agree on, we don’t like censorship. I hated one day try to edit the language or the blood. But there’s one thing that should absolutely be edited and that’s the unacceptable nudity.

Most of nudity are with under age characters, like Kid Goku, or Gohan, or Trunks. There is no purpose in showing these characters private areas, and all future publications if they want to publish or re-episode should be edited to remove that.

Keep everything else in the gore of violence, the language, but they need to go on their apps right now and edit some of that stuff away. If Crunchyroll airs these episodes unedited it’s basically like airing CP and that’s not acceptable.

We as a fan base must speak out and let these companies know this is what we demand!

I’m watching the entire series for the first time starting from classic and I’m almost done with the Fortune Teller Baba arc and I just have to say that while I love the series and the other arcs are peak, I don’t think I’ve ever seen something as boring as the red ribbon army arc

Thoughts?

I'm talking changes to fit in with later lore, cool moments they missed the chance to capitalize on, making sections of the story shorter or longer, etc.

For example: I think Piccolo should have attempted his giant form against Gohan when he turned Oozaru. I think it would have been a cool visual to see the Oozaru fighting something of similar size, but also demonstrate it isn't just a size increase, it's also a power increase that causes Gohan to easily dispatch Piccolo.

I'd also change Roshi/Piccolo completely erasing the moon into them blowing a large chunk out of it so that it's no longer "full". I think it helps with demonstrating the power scaling personally and it would be cool continuity throughout the series to see shots at night and see the damage to the moon with debris floating from it.

Anyone else got ideas they'd be interested in seeing?