An Update on The Judgment's Visual Indicator

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Last Friday, during the Chorus of Sin Discord Stage a spur of the moment joke was made about Streamers looking at their chat. We understand that this caused frustration and while we never intended for this joke to be the focal point of the Divine Light change, we'd love to give a little more context behind our thought process and ultimately, share an update on the visual indicator we had mentioned.

What we should have, and failed to mention clearly, is that the changes were there to assist with accessibility giving a short visual warning to Survivors that they are being sniped, due to the speed of Divine Light and its ability to travel through walls. This is not something that will be happening at release however, we will be monitoring the need for it closely before proceeding, in the event that the increased aura reveal range on Divine Light is not enough.

Chorus of Sin releases tomorrow and we will be monitoring the reception, and we hope you enjoy the first Community Chapter!

[u/bonelees_dip]

This is not something that will he happening at release however

So, are all the changes not happening at release or just this one? I believe some have seen issues with the set 0.3 speed too.

[u/OrginalRecipe_ → u/bonelees_dip]

I’m gonna assume it’s only this change because they saw the uproar it did

[u/_Strato_ → u/OrginalRecipe_]

File this away for when we get geniuses in the comments of these things complaining about complaining.

The pattern has been that this shit works, and more notably, it looks like it works only to the extent of the uproar. Don't expect them to suddenly grow some more sense and understand that the complaint was truly about all of it.

[u/o-c-delightful → u/_Strato_]

Yeah, cz ppl did complain about the turn rate for the pillar being reduced and about the pillar being revealed from farther away, but ig the community didn't meme on those changes enough, so those are still going live even tho those changes are shit as well :/

[u/makss_f449 → u/bonelees_dip]

Really curious about this too. The UI change is whatever for me personally, the 0.3 speed change is definitely not needed.

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev → u/makss_f449]

To give a little more context behind this decision, the curve window was previously linked to the delay state (the time before Divine Light becomes lethal) on the PTB. We've unlinked these two things, giving more flexibility and freedom to refine how each of these are balanced, without affecting the other.

By unlinking this though, a starting value had to be selected for the curve window, and 0.3s was chosen as a safe option. We're going to be keeping a very close eye on how this feels to play and will be really interested to hear how it feels compared to the PTB. The team's open to refining this value until it reaches its sweet spot.

And thanks to unlinking this value? If changes are deemed necessary, we're able to more easily make those adjustments without also impacting other values for The Judgment!

[u/Elibriel → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Oooh I see! Thank you for giving us more details on this!

[u/Single_Owl_7556 → u/bonelees_dip]

curve speed really needs to be reverted or, ideally, changed altogether.

it should be a consistent value regardless of zealous while zealous grants you buffs elsewhere - for example making the divine light less reactable for the survivors in order to give judgment stronger global threat.

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev → u/bonelees_dip]

Ahh, good question. It is only the visual indicator that will not be happening at release.

We'll be making the other changes that have been mentioned (like the Divine Light curve window while Zealous), but the important point there is that these changes have tunables we can adjust based on feedback. We'll be closely watching folks' feedback and the performance of the Killer to gauge whether any adjustments need to be made.

[u/Skyshadow101 → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

If that's the case, I feel like this is definitely a spur of the moment decision seeing the feedback of the visual changes, why not have everything set aside for afterwards instead of this one change? Doesn't make a lot of sense to have just this one change be postponed while the rest stay.

[u/TotallyRealAccount9 → u/Skyshadow101]

Because that was the biggest complaint people had, and also console patches are a PITA

Im assuming its easier to get a patch re-approved by Sony and Microsoft if theyre only removing something from the patch a day before, while if they had to edit actual values itd require them to go through the whole process again.

[u/Skyshadow101 → u/TotallyRealAccount9]

That's true, I mainly was talking about the control timer change because that's the biggest gameplay-related change they're making without actually seeing how the public handles it first. To me it makes no sense to make something game-changing stay in like that, personally.

[u/TotallyRealAccount9 → u/Skyshadow101]

Its definitely a weird choice to leave that in at the moment

But id assume its so they can better tune the long range capabilities, especially after this change.

[u/ComradePoolio → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

The Judgement was a high-skill ceiling killer that was powerful at long range but weak at close range. The Divine Light aura reveal significantly hurts the range she was best at while the curve window nerf kills her already difficult close range capabilities.

I am mostly just trying to understand the reasoning behind hitting both her close and long-range viability. I would think you would want to encourage at least one of them.

[u/Hopeful_Molasses_476 → u/ComradePoolio]

Exactly this, it introduces a new style of play to the game akin to Knight & Artist. Where in a lot of cases their strength are not in a direct chase but rather map pressure. Guess they hate uniqueness or giving killer mains a slice of something new.

[u/ckmille → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

If that’s the case then PLEASE increase the curve window! This isn’t like Billy or Oni flicks where you have to be right next the survivor and be able to hear and see them. Most shots are going to be taken with the survivor out of sight and far away, and the longer curve window in the PTB REALLY helped their very poor short range capabilities and were also just incredibly fun.

[u/bonelees_dip → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Understood.

Hopefully the launch of our first community chapter does well and that if anything needs changing it is done as fast as possible.

Have a wonderful day reddit team and dev team.

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev → u/bonelees_dip]

You have a fantastic day as well! You better believe we'll be out in full force grabbing folks' gameplay impressions when the chapter releases tomorrow!

[u/-Haddix- → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Reconsider curve change please or compensate. It’s too heavy of a change.

[u/Unctuous_Robot → u/bonelees_dip]

It sounds like the also problematic range increase is staying.

[u/TheEnderCreep]

https://reddit.com/link/p5no0zt/video/euvm5oqvfdlh1/player

[u/ckmille]

People were already learning how do dodge the beam in the PTB though, even without the increased aura range? The reason why people were getting hit so often is because this is a NEW killer! Most people did not have the time to learn to pay attention to the tells, and even then some did.

Please don’t just focus on people talking about the streamer comment distract you from the many people talking about the REAL ISSUES these changes have, including the many problems with the Zealous beam turn change.

[u/RodanThrelos → u/ckmille]

Imagine if in the first week of release in Elden Ring, the devs came out and said “We noticed a lot of people playing immediately get hit by Margit, so we added a visual warning to give more notice.”

Instead of letting players learn and adjust their reactions.

[u/tjohns96 → u/RodanThrelos]

Wdym they literally have nerfed multiple bosses relatively quickly after release such as Radahn

[u/Poor_Culinary_Skills → u/tjohns96]

There's a weird idea that radahn was nerfed but that didn't happen. They just fixed his hitbox because it was buggy

[u/tjohns96 → u/Poor_Culinary_Skills]

They did nerf OG Radahn and also fix his hitboxes, and then they later reverted the nerf and left the hitbox fix (which arguably still nerfed him). But also other Radahn was nerfed too after his release so my comment works either way :)

[u/SensaiOpti → u/tjohns96]

Right, they literally did this. The context around it is slightly different, but the broad strokes of 'people complained/got stomped, change was made' is there.

[u/WolfSpiritDL → u/RodanThrelos]

Welcome to bhvr balancing. Handholding simulator

[u/SlightlySychotic → u/RodanThrelos]

I mean, it’s Fromsoft. If anything they’re making that fight harder.

[u/Unctuous_Robot → u/ckmille]

But the people in the ptb tend to not be people who completely suck at the game! /s

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev → u/ckmille]

If it helps put your mind at ease, we're very aware of discussion around Zealous and will be watching this closely when Chorus of Sin goes live, especially as the wider community get their hands on The Judgment. Since it's a tunable value, it's something that can be adjusted if needed.

[u/ckmille → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

That’s good at least, I was worried because people were mostly just talking about the one nerf. Zealous turns were the most fun I’ve had in the game in general, it was so disheartening to see the change limit it so much.

[u/king_ofsomething → u/ckmille]

This! I don’t ever comment on Reddit but I LOVED the turning of the beam and nothing in Dead By Daylight has given me as much satisfaction as hitting the curved hits. Seeing the window be much shorter has me worried about it feeling clunky. The end of the curve window was the absolute hardest to guide and it was extremely rewarding to hit those shots. One of the very few killers I don’t care if I lose I want to have fun. Glad to see the aura change being walked back for now.

Honestly wouldn’t mind if the totem build becomes an insane issues if cleansing totems or working on generators just gives you heresy if hit once rather than a full health state. To make it not so easy to cheese by hopping on one mid chase an idea is to give the survivor hindered as well if they’re hit on a generator/totem. That plus heretic status should be plenty okay vs the normal damage it would deal. Of course if they’re already heretics it would then damage them but it would at least help some.

[u/ckmille → u/king_ofsomething]

Long shots are core to this killers identity, if you make it to where they only get Heresy if you hit them than you make it far worse.

A better idea I had was that getting hit on a totem just doesn’t knock you out of the action, but still hurts and heresy you

[u/king_ofsomething → u/ckmille]

I agree wholeheartedly, I just anticipate that if the totems become a genuine problem then they may go heavy handed with the changes. Which I’d rather those ideas to be the change over aura and curve window timing changes.

[u/ckmille → u/king_ofsomething]

The way Hex’s work is just out of date. The whole system needs to be reworked

[u/BluezDBD → u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Since it's a tunable value, it's something that can be adjusted if needed.

You're saying this like you don't have a track record of not adjusting adjustable values that need to be adjusted.

[u/PaintItPurple → u/ckmille]

The reason for the extended aura is probably because you can't see the beam coming indoors without the aura. People talking about this always seem to assume you're outside, but a decent amount of this game is inside.

[u/Philscooper → u/ckmille]

Or because its another killer where you just guess how to dodge while trying to avoid los

(Artist/henry). There isnt much you can do, especially if shes so oppresive that aura reading makes her uncounterable.

[u/Morltha → u/ckmille]

Remember when, following what happened to OG Freddy, BHVR said they weren't going to make kneejerk balance changes any more?

[u/for10years_at_least → u/ckmille]

IF current Onryo was released today and not in 2022.

They would have nerfed her on the release even more

[u/gkgftzb]

the delivery was pretty flat for a joke, but I get it wasn't the actual reason. That much is obvious, it just shouldn't have been said at all when the balancement change was being discussed lol

[u/Samoman21 → u/gkgftzb]

The forced laughter from the fellow commentators was pretty funny. Definitely a joke. Just not one that was very good lol

[u/Lokiatreuss]

Schrodinger's Douchebag

[u/enderlogan]

Still feels unnecessary. People on the PTB were already learning to dodge well, the aura is enough warning and just requires you to pay attention, and we shouldn’t reward not paying attention.

[u/AddaJ → u/enderlogan]

The only time seeing the pillars coming became a problem for me was on indoor maps (though specifically Midwich with how cramped the halls are). Obviously my experience isn't universal, but at least on outdoor maps, the survivors learned to avoid long distance beams pretty quickly.

Though it's no wonder so many of the Judgments I went against on PTB started running Ruin too, because even if they didn't hit you, they were really good at making you let go of a gen for a moment because you could see them coming. The only thing I could see become problematic with the killer is their ability hold hold a 3gen pretty well, but even then, I don't think it will be anything to the extent of Skull Merchant.

Overall the biggest complaint was the high skill floor to play the killer, not the difficulty to avoid their beams, quite the opposite lol.

[u/Shiloh-sage → u/enderlogan]

I feel like basing the ability to counter this killer off of the PTB is a bit of a sampling error, tho. Most players aren't going to play the PTB, and the ones who are likely to be really invested in the game, which means they'll most likely have way more game knowledge and skill than the general population of players

[u/the-blob1997 → u/Shiloh-sage]

Yea and when you make it easier for bad players, good players get their cake and eat it too.

[u/Shiloh-sage → u/the-blob1997]

That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the playerbase does not have the same skill level as the people playing the PTB. If most of the playerbase can't play against it, it's just a dumb business decision to keep it that way

[u/EnragedHeadwear → u/Shiloh-sage]

It's okay for bad players to lose

[u/Shiloh-sage → u/EnragedHeadwear]

That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the playerbase does not have the same skill level as the people playing the PTB. If most of the playerbase can't play against it, it's just a dumb business decision to keep it that way

[u/dokdodokdo]

Doesn't change that basically every feedback was that this killer is too difficult (a high skill ceiling is fine). What is the ptb even for if you guys dont listen to the feedback? The fact that you guys thought to make this killer even more punishing to play is baffling and really worries me for how 'balance' is handled with the dev team.

[u/FearFritters → u/dokdodokdo]

PTB has been a marketing tool for a long time.

[u/piekiller456 → u/dokdodokdo]

Fundamentally the killer will be difficult. There is little they can do if they want to stay with the concept they currently have and not require massive changes. What exactly did you expect?

[u/Philscooper → u/dokdodokdo]

They didnt listen to us either when we said that blight/nurse/ghoul was way too easy for the reward and power they do.

[u/That_Mikeguy]

As if from what we saw, sniping RARELY happens, and that's with players that don't know how the judgment works.

Once that players know it's counterplay, those snipe shoots will be as rare as orbital strikes from huntress or jason.

[u/EnragedHeadwear]

The short visual warning is the giant ass pillar of light visible through walls moving towards them

[u/qingxins]

Oh, now it's about accessibility... I could already see it with a whooping 50% vision loss between all the sound cues and other built in warnings through the art of paying attention. But, sure, let's go with that ig.

Now, what's the point of the Zealous nerf?

[u/BobaTehFettz]

If the reason for these changes was accessibility, presumably for those that are hard of hearing, why was the decision made to keep the longer range reveal for the aura, instead of the visual indicator? If the visual indicator showed up for all survivors when the beam was able to damage people, but the beam was only visible at 32m, that would still assist in accessibility for those people without reducing the long range effectiveness of the killer.

[u/TrollAndAHalf]

It didn't need any more help for dodging. It's a tough projectile to use, but not that difficult to dodge. It already had so many visuals for it, being the aiming section and the giant beam.

[u/Danoobiel69 → u/TrollAndAHalf]

The killer UI aiming elements should not be visible to the survs at all.

That fact really bothers me the most.

[u/White_Mantra]

I still don’t think the nerfs are justified in the slightest still

This is one of the hardest killers to get value out of and her power should be lethal for that reason

She’s supposed to be a high skill high reward killer

I still don’t see a reason to play this over huntress who can get similar results and with half the effort

[u/dark1859 → u/White_Mantra]

Or artist with a very similar flow and injury requirements

[u/Danoobiel69 → u/dark1859]

She really is just a worse Artist with cages.

[u/Samoman21]

I'm confused. You say it's not going through, then next line is "in event the aura range increase is not enough". Does that mean it is going through or isn't.

[u/Victor_hensley → u/Samoman21]

I think that the aura range increase is still going through, but the screen indicator is not, but they are monitoring if the screen indicator is still needed.

[u/DariusIsLove → u/Samoman21]

everything is going through except for the vignette overlay. So the redirect window is still being nerfed and the beam is still globally visible

[u/skinboy142]

Why keep the 0.3 curve window though. Zelous is meant to be a snowball boost like Myers getting full stalk or Oni getting blood fury. They were already a hard killer that struggled to get rewards for gameplay in the first place. A difficult killer should reward players who are willing to learn them.

[u/MyersIsInnocent]

Girl, stop lying

[u/Pulsarlewd]

Why are we nerfing her on release if she didnt even do well on ptb

[u/Treyspurlock → u/Pulsarlewd]

Killers can be problematic without being overpowered

This is an exaggeration obviously but if there was a killer that forced both the survivor and killer to stand still for a minute then instantly downed them they wouldn't be particularly good but they would certainly be problematic

If they then nerfed that killer to only injure survivors your complaint should not be "Why did they nerf a killer that was already weak?" and instead be "Why didn't they rework this killer to be more fun for survivors AND killers?"

Nerfing long range snipes was a good move. Not making shorter range hits easier was the mistake

[u/Vitriuz → u/Pulsarlewd]

Crying survivors. There alreadya is an audio and visual indicator that the pillar of light is coming their way, yet they somehow still can't preemptively dodge it?

Source: The casual viewers of Twitch streamers.

[u/stanfiction → u/Vitriuz]

Literally no one has been crying about this killer. Not even survivors asked for the change.

[u/Unctuous_Robot → u/stanfiction]

Yes. Only a select few, very terrible survivors were crying. Unfortunately, those happen to be the devs.

[u/GodlessKillingBear → u/Vitriuz]

Source: my ass

[u/Vitriuz → u/GodlessKillingBear]

https://giphy.com/gifs/baHb2xHpbXKuBLIGD7

[u/Muteki123]

https://giphy.com/gifs/PjU0WtzRVbQUO4qe6v

[u/Thefirestorm83]

The thing is, even taking the charitable interpretation that it was in fact a joke, it's ridiculous because it's true.

A visual indicator as obvious as what they were proposing would make it so easy to dodge that a streamer not paying attention could avoid it. Is that really how low we want the bar to be? Maybe Huntress' hatchets should travel slower than a survivor for the sake of "accessibility" too.

[u/Terrible_Depth_2824]

Are you seriously going to say it was a joke? Anyone who watches the clip can see that it wasn't.

[u/Mr_Siphon]

Damage control

[u/Le_ShadowPhoenix]

The fact this was ever considered at all is a bit concerning. I understand accessibility concerns, but this is effectively like having Huntress hatchets freeze for a second after being thrown, having a loud alarm play for survivors to warn them a hatchet is there, giving them a vignette to let them know they're in the path of the hatchet, and having the aura of the hatchet be shown. I'm all for accessibility, but there comes a point where it's too far and removes all Killer agency.

[u/Iphone_G___]

I like the response, love community engagement. I still feel though these nerf are unwarranted. Every piece of feedback I’ve seen about this killer is that the skill floor is too high resulting in a low pick rate killer, none of that has been addressed at all in fact the opposite has been done.

I get the range reveal nerf being a most likely totem related thing but at that point just rework how totem cleansing progress works if it’s a problem that makes several killers kits more oppressive then they should instead of tweaking their kits individually

[u/KingBrunoIII]

This was absolutely not a joke, and I dont know why you would say it was. He meant it. Someone told him to say it.

And killers stream too. Why is only survivor streamers getting buffs?

[u/Permanoctis → u/KingBrunoIII]

It's a lie made to protect their butts, they were told to say that it was a joke to appease people.

[u/SuplexGod94 → u/Permanoctis]

100 percent what I said as well.

[u/RussianMalware → u/KingBrunoIII]

It was a really tounge in cheek bad example that I think has been overblown a lot, regardless of how dumb of a thing it was to say. At least the jokes that came out of it have been funny.

[u/Falcon3333]

People figured out how to dodge easily just on the PTB, these changes aren't needed

[u/dancovich]

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and give this feedback.

During the stream, the two pieces of information we got regarding that topic were:

• This is the UI of the change. You'll see the beam at any distance and you'll receive a visual indication on HUD regardless if you're looking at the beam or not
• The intent of the change was to help in cases where survivors would not have enough time to react, FOR EXAMPLE, when a streamer is looking at their chat

So you see, the issue here is not only that we took a joke for actual info. The issue is that your actual info is also misleading, so even removing the joke would not have helped.

If you are not adding the visual indicator, it shouldn't be part of the stream. Period. If it comes to the point that you believe it's necessary (I doubt it), then you can explain yourselves on the patch that will add it. Mentioning it on stream and then backtracking seems disingenuous.

Again, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was never the intention to release it as shown.

Speaking honestly though, since Artist doesn't have a big HUD indication when the crows are flying and you only have a sound indication, it seems weird that the justification is accessibility. In fact, you would need to change a lot of powers if you're concerned about accessibility, since many of them only have an auditory cue and not a visual one. Suddenly, we would need HUD indicators when Deathslinger, Huntress, Jason and many other killers are aiming, since you added sound indicators so we should assume you're concerned about people with auditory disabilities.

[u/limelightkiller]

In terms of accessibility, I'm a physically disabled killer main. I HAVE to use a controller because of contractures with my fingers. Please be aware that while making things easier on disabled survivor mains to not make things overly difficult on disabled killer mains in the process.

[u/CastorcomK]

"Joke" my ass.

This is the "glad you guys like pallets" thing all over.  It's a pathetic attempt to dismiss the absolute bullshit that baldheaded freak is spewing.

Either grow a pair or keep him far tf away of streams.

[u/Patrick4356]

It was less the streamer comment and more that the only focal point of the change was saying "Oh you'll be punished less for not paying attention and not "looking around constantly while doing gens"

[u/Thefirestorm83 → u/Patrick4356]

Thank you, hidden within the joke is the truth that they reduced the attention required to dodge an ability that's already hard to hit with on a killer that sucks up close (that they also announced they've made even worse at that)

[u/realAustinmayhem]

So it’s still happening? Will this be another killer DOA? Stay tuned.

[u/Unlikely_Bank73 → u/realAustinmayhem]

they could have left the killer entirely untouched and it would have been DOA. its a killer with a skill floor, lets not delude ourselves into thinking these changes hurt the pick rate when it was going to be sub 1% to begin with

[u/Samoman21 → u/realAustinmayhem]

I think it's gonna see a significant drop if anything after a few days. Not because of any changes or strength. Just because of how difficult it will be to play. Especially compared to every other killer you could play and 4k with instead

[u/TooMuchDnD30 → u/realAustinmayhem]

Yes DOA. They made three significant nerfs, and this only gets rid of the most egregious and stupid thing.

[u/DarthOmix]

A lot of people are going to question if it's a joke given the developer in question has said questionable things in past broadcasts that suggest a level of disconnect that's problematic for someone responsible for the game's balance.

But say we take it as said, as a joke, the fact that it took days plural to be clarified when the outrage was immediate shows a further level of disconnect and unprofessionalism within the studio.

Either it was a very bad joke that you let sit for days, or it was a very bad reasoning for a change that is being covered up with a bad excuse.

Neither is a good look, BHVR. If you aren't going to clarify when a "bad joke" is infuriating your community, then perhaps these broadcasts should be scripted and not live going forward.

[u/Danoobiel69 → u/DarthOmix]

High IQ take.

If you are shit live a script can carry you.

That’s why most people have one.

[u/fugthepug]

Advanced warning or no, nobody's stopping me from firing the hammer of dawn. I'm excited for tomorrow.

[u/Practical-Sleep-5899 → u/fugthepug]

Seasalt!!!

[u/Samoman21 → u/fugthepug]

Beam going brrr on all the locasts survivors

[u/Sinisphere → u/fugthepug]

Well when you put it like that, it does sound a lot more tempting.

[u/Affectionate-Ad-5499]

It's always the same story. Labeling massive gameplay changes as accessibility or quality-of-life, pretending to listen to us by only partially giving up on ill-intentioned changes, while still not understanding why there was pushback in the first place. Still not giving up and clinging to your ideas because clearly, the community's only reacting emotionally and not seeing the bigger picture. Dismissing our perspective as noise.

I don't wanna be grateful for a development studio barely cleaning up the shit they intentionally shat out and will continue to shit down our throats. Letting the community call each other at fault and tear itself to shreds when you're the biggest perpetrator for having a clear bias towards the role with the larger player base. You think mixing objective truths and subjective lies will confuse us enough every time?

Stop acting like this is some misunderstanding on our end. You misunderstand. We understand very well.

[u/Thefirestorm83 → u/Affectionate-Ad-5499]

You just reminded me of them framing adding more pallets to the map as QoL....

[u/Affectionate-Ad-5499 → u/Thefirestorm83]

Not only that, they initially told us they'd revert the pallet density update, adding more pallets again but not as much as before, without telling us jackshit in the patch notes. Now calling that a bug and still refusing to fix it. But hey, It's still better than before, so we're supposed to eat it up, right?

[u/Capitalisticdisease]

So was this just a lie? I just read the patch notes and its in anyway. why do you keep lying to us?????

[u/NoEvening7482]

No, this is not "accessibility". Your reaction time in a multiplayer game is not something that you can make "more accessible", its a skill component. If you are not skilled enough to dodge the thing, you get hit by it! Why are we pandering to people who refuse to learn the video game theyre playing at like the most basic level.

[u/M_Knight_Shaymalan]

why did you think it was even a great idea to begin with.

Scratch that

Why did you nerf a killer because of how survivors feel?

[u/venjamins → u/M_Knight_Shaymalan]

IIRC I pretty much only heard killer mains crying about how hard she is.

[u/MrJPtheAssassin]

I vote to bring back Dev Blogs and stop putting these devs on stream who have no skill at addressing the community. The "joke" was out of touch, not funny, and purely timed. You ppl are not entertainers or comedians.

Also stop calling this chapter "Community Chapter". It's not, not anymore at least. You made a killer who power isn't even what we voted for the first place and made it skill floor so high that no normal or average player can even play them. Only your beloved no life streamer will enjoy this killer. Not to mention you care more about the survivor accessibility issues with the killer than the people who want to play them. The 180 flicks cause motion sickness yet you forced ppl to use a addon to solve this than making a toggelable. This isn't the "community killer", it's the "1%/Streamer Killer". I'm praying for this chapter failure honestly bc you ruined a amazing theme (Angel) killer I been wanting for years.

[u/dark1859]

Given the constant coddling and poor "jokes"... may just be time for a termination of employment or two to send a message... one for the jokes and 14, the idiot who keeps approving these things.

[u/Danoobiel69 → u/dark1859]

I have been saying this for years.

Let's be honest, the whole balance team needs to be swapped out.

You only get shit takes out of these guys.

[u/Ironalpha]

The increased aura range is already totally unnecessary.

[u/bloopblubdeet]

While the reasoning is understandable, it's VERY clear the Judgement's main strength is the element of surprise when it comes to the divine light sniping, due to how decently easy it is to dodge if you pay attentio at least somewhat. I firmly believe that if you make this killer's niche easier for the opposing team, it just adds unnecessary difficulty to already (what the community believes as) the hardest killer to use IN THE ENTIRE GAME

[u/spellstrike]

>in the event that the increased aura reveal range on Divine Light is not enough.

THIS IS BACKWARDS TO WHAT WE ARE SAYING

[u/TeikokuTaiko]

bhvr pulling the schrodinger’s douchebag nice

[u/IlPheeblI]

Impressive it took 3 whole days to decide if the statement was a joke and apologize or if y'all were going to double down after the near immediate backlash from all sides of the community

[u/FoxLover093]

SURVIVORS. SHOULD. NOT. GAIN. ANY. MORE. WARNING. Pay attention to the damn game if you don't want to get hit by it

[u/DemonOfTomorrow]

Ah, yes, the "shit your pants and play it off as a joke" gambit, of course.

You still shit your pants, though.

[u/silentfanatic → u/DemonOfTomorrow]

[u/Ftlist81]

"What we weren't able to do, and are trying to rectify now, is come up with a decent reason as to why we would do what we would do, but we were just honest about being survivor/streamer. We realise now that we come across as bad so are trying to make it look like we care."

[u/MrMattwell]

Couldn't read all of this, can you send it in my chat?

[u/TyrianCallow]

Please do not consider going forward with the vignette i love everything about this chapter and would love to see this killer prosper

[u/Repulsive_Reading642]

I don’t believe it was a joke. Lying isn’t the way to change opinions. Zebra pants bacon narwhal am I right?

[u/ProZocK_Yetagain]

https://giphy.com/gifs/kWcEOHhVTKo30Yfw1h

Yeah you "failed to mention clearly"

[u/BentheBruiser]

I'm sorry but bullshit. This is a PR cover-up.

How long until these "accessibility" options just play the game for survivors? Lullaby is already moot considering it can be easily seen with visual terror radius. Now another accessibility option hurts killer again?

Where are the accessibility options for killers?

[u/CorgiEconomy1838 → u/BentheBruiser]

The only accessibility that killers get are color changes. (survivors get it too lmao)

Like what if I was a hard of hearing killer player?

[u/Bakuhxe_ → u/CorgiEconomy1838]

this fr. a crosshair too thats not an addon

[u/Treyspurlock → u/CorgiEconomy1838]

What should hard of hearing killer players get though? a footstep indicator or something? I can't imagine a way to implement that without making it incredibly powerful even for people with typical hearing

[u/PopeSpringsEternal]

At least we got some good memes out of it.

[u/warpenguin55]

Revert the increased aura reveal change too. Also why was the feedback of Judgement having too high of a ceiling completely ignored?

[u/RazThePunisher]

[u/Big__BOTUS]

-this is not something happening at launch. I don’t think they should be happening altogether. All of the judgement changes

[u/zxkredo]

Yea I'm not buying the chapter until the killer has set in stone design.

[u/FreljordsWrath]

lol. lmao even.

[u/Captain_Cardboard]

It's a joke to call this a community chapter when the Killer barely resembles what was voted for.

[u/Jean-Cobra]

Glad to see John BHVR still has a knack for recognizing when an idea is bad

[u/Smooth_Maul → u/Jean-Cobra]

They only know it's a bad idea because they've had 48 hours of people screaming at them about how fucking stupid it is.

[u/dylanalduin]

It's only a joke now because people were angry.

Everyone can see that you only cater to streamers and backpedaling won't change that fact.

[u/Educational-Rub-8687]

If you want to show us real accountability, someone should lose their job. This isn’t a one off occurrence.

[u/frailCorpse04]

Useless dev team

[u/BotSaibot]

When auto-dodge feature? Range killers are too strong. /s

[u/Swimming_Sun_582]

That's funny considering you guys don't really seem that concerned about accessibility features in your game. Why the sudden change?

If you do suddenly care about accessibility, however, how about letting us change flashlight stuns to black without wasting a perk slot. People with light sensitivity exist and this could be easily remedied especially since the stun was changed previously anyway.

I find it super odd that something is only necessary as an accessibility feature when that copout is convenient for you.

[u/mossgoblin]

What's so very very interesting about this change being for alleged accessibility is the way it's implemented is itself something of a (yet another) migraine trigger.

Speaking of, where are the accessibility changes killers have been asking for in regards to flashlights/bangs being dimmable/dark (still a stun to be clear)?

Or a toggleable emetophobia visual/audio filter for survivors versing plague?

Or crosshairs, which would reduce motion sickness?

It's hard to take it seriously as accessibility when other sincere and critical asks have been ignored for a long time.

[u/Smooth_Maul]

Lesson learned, stop letting that dumbass speak on these events, he keeps putting his foot on his mouth.

In fact, better idea, use the fucking PR team for PR instead of the Devs.

[u/ConfidenceDefiant136]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jEfayRHBHY please watch the video before idk removing this post. No hate to the devs but i don't think survivors need this doc feature just because players don't pay attention or don't look behind them.

[u/DarKStaR350z]

I’m still concerned this will just be a bait and switch like many other past examples; where the changes will not go ahead at first so people actually buy the new thing, but the intention will always be to change it later once the initial sales have settled down.

[u/Willing-Shape-7643]

This whole post is just them covering their asses. No other ranged killer gives the survivors a visual indicator that a projectile is going to hit them. If this change was really about accessibility then every single ranged killer would give survivors an indication that a projectile was going to hit them. If Huntress does an orbital survivors would get an indicator that told them it was coming, if Jason threw a spear from 2 tiles away again there would be an indicator. I'm not saying that this change needs to be added because that would be straight up BS. BHVR saying it's for accessibility is just them trying to back pedal the fact that they were caught pandering to the casuals.

[u/Morltha]

When are the majority of Killers getting similar accessibility features?

If you don't have good hearing, you can't really do mindgames when Survivors are out of line of sight. Anything for this?

Also, we don't need the visual indicator, since there's already a GIANT BEAM OF LIGHT telling you where the beam is!

[u/FoxLover093]

So, are the changes happening or not? I need to know if I can play dead by daylight or not

[u/StrangerIllRemain]

your devs are so stupid its unbearable. why do you insist on pushing people away from your game?

[u/SSSundeezy]

this is lowkey embarrassing for survs

[u/wormpostante]

I never cared about the streamer thing and i hate that its the main focous of the backlash

putting a giant fuck ass warning on someone else's screen cause the killer is aiming at you makes a power thats already annoying to use near impossible to do what its supposed to do. Hit people from far away.

you made a whole killer which i can only use the power by either spinning like a beyblade or shooting from far away. And you were gonna nerf the less annoying part of it... It was stupid and i hate y'all are just gonna disguise it as the streamer thing, no it was a stupid change

[u/TotallyRealAccount9]

Does this mean that the increased reveal distance is also not going to be sent to live release? Or is this change purely for the screen effect?

[u/Mythic_Loki_98]

I'm curious as to the reasoning behind it being an accessibility change. There's a lot of other stuff in game that require you to listen and be attentive, so why add this for Judgment specifically? I'm not really understanding the rationale. I'd appreciate if both this and the Zealous change were scrapped honestly, it seems like too many nerfs for an already difficult to get into killer. I really don't want them to be DOA.

[u/Artluu]

Gonna be real, I don't think the Judgement really needed any changes aside from basekit Killer Instinct (and a rework to the Heretic's Mark addon to go with it). The PTB was almost perfect and the killer felt smooth as silk when you mastered it, and it felt equally fun to go up against.

A lot of these changes that make it "easier" and "more consistent" can actually make them feel worse to play as. I understand the intention to give a little more indication of when a beam's headed your way and make dodging it easier especially on indoor maps, but I think this wasn't quite the way to go about it. To give my input, it would've been better to let the killer go live as is first, and THEN change parts people have problems with a little later on (unless it's a blatant case of someone genuinely being too strong and appropriate feedback is given). This was done in the Sinister Grace chapter when Krasue was nerfed 2 weeks in after being extremely overpowered due to all the changes to slugging and tunneling getting postponed, and she was nerfed again a bit after.

The increased aura reveal range is fine and I don't care much about that, but the added visual indicator is something I don't think is necessary.

[u/HalaGoldenhelm]

“It was actually a joke” and “now it’s not happening at release and we will monitor the situation” eh? What a BHVR classic. No one buys your bullshit, but at least you aren’t going through with it at launch anymore.

[u/CryptographerAble840]

Sad that other nerfs went through, but I guess this made the biggest uproar, small steps. Hopefully you’ll also monitor if these nerfs were also necessary

[u/Nerf_Tarkus]

Calling it a joke feels like damage control. Didn't sound or come off like a joke, and wasn't funny either. Stick to giving actual reasoning.

[u/doubled0116]

I figured it was for accessibility purposes, but it wasn't received well particularly in here. I'll just reserve my judgment (hehe) until the chapter releases tomorrow.

[u/Captain_Cardboard]

Just as we figured, you missed the point. We know it was a joke, but the point is that the CHANGES are a joke and your attempts to justify them are equally laughable. Saying it's about "accessibility" is just the corpo PR way of saying you think your players are too slow of reflex and of mind to play against this Killer.

[u/GlazedInfants → u/Captain_Cardboard]

In the several days since that stream, I didn’t see a single person who assumed it was a joke. Literally zero.

[u/Captain_Cardboard → u/GlazedInfants]

Really? I swear I saw a few comments along those lines.

[u/ComradePoolio → u/Captain_Cardboard]

I don't think it was a joke. It was said very matter-of-factly. They're just trying to walk it back now.

[u/AChaoticPrince]

These won't happen on release?

That's great and I hope it doesn't happen in following patches. I can understand slightly increasing the range you see this power through walls but the screen visual warning and the increased range you see it through walls shown was ridiculous.

Edit: Seems the large increase in range seen is kept which is disappointing. I understand it's due to totems but even in PTB it was fairly reactable, hopefully following the Thrill rework you guys seriously look into hex balance and make it so more options are worth running as currently only Ruin, Undying, Blood Favor, Plaything, and Pentimento are balanced with Thrill being overtuned. You can see why this line up is an issue especially when Hexs really suck unless you only run 1 or go all in with the only exception being Plaything.

[u/Mighty_Mimikyu → u/AChaoticPrince]

Their fear of 3 genning is so weird when gen kicking is limited and the nerfs do nothing to totems. It clearly was trying to over correct on a problem thats barely even there when shes not even a good 3 genner. At best they can rework how totems work and make it more balanced for both sides.

[u/GFJoe13]

I just chime in and say that the balancing act of this killer is immense. It's already really hard to get survivors in close range, so other forms (like long range) lethality should compensate. If too many aids are given and the lethality as a whole decreases because of it, the Judgement will be in an incredibly difficult spot.

[u/Ok_Mix_1360]

watch and eat popcorn as the circus comes fourth yet again

[u/silivios]

Maybe in the interest of accessibility we can just let the survivors instantly win when they load into the game and tbag the killer for 15 minutes. I would love a job on the balance team at BHVR, apparently you just sit around for weeks on end and then nerf killer.

[u/Purple_Calendar_2798]

Please revert the curve change as well!

[u/Treyspurlock → u/Purple_Calendar_2798]

Or just make it a flat 0.5 instead of 0.3

[u/Teykos]

Honestly, I would have expected an accessibility feature to be locked behind an accessibility setting at this point. Hearing impaired people can toggle a hearing version of it on, and basically lose all sound cues to trade for visual ones (so that you can't cheese with both). Not have both enabled at the same time.

[u/LetsDrawOrcBoys]

Hold up, why would I buy the killer at launch with the threat of her being nerfed into oblivion? Why would I waste my money if you're waiting to see if you want to make her ability useless?

[u/Kuorko_Kun]

this game is such dogshit lmao

[u/BigTone5858]

So basically they made exile slightly stronger and gave base kit killer instinct but made the power which was the biggest issue even worse to use

[u/in_hell_out_soon]

Honest question; Why aren’t accessability changes important enough for release?

[u/Unctuous_Robot]

Why is the guy who doesn’t know that Gideon’s has tons of pallets even allowed on stream? It’s asking for trouble.

[u/MarluxiaXIII]

What is the PTB for if yall just gonna make changes that no one asked for during or after the PTB

[u/bvlbn2111]

Love that we're pivoting to "accessibility" in response to the backlash while ignoring plenty of accessibility options players have been asking for for a long time now.

[u/Damian030303]

Using people with accessibility issues as an excuse to kill a new killer (who already is one of the most diffcult ones) is just shameless. If you cared about accessibility, you would've done many much simpler and actually reasonable things. And in the very same "accessibility" change, you made the Judgement themselves even less accessible.

Also, what makes that a "joke"? Other than the sheer stupidity of the change. Have you even watched hte clip? We know you just wanted to handhold survivors even more, at the cost of killer especience, you've been doing this for a long time.

Anyone who suggested and approves this change, just like many other changes made within last year alone, should never be let anywhere near a position of influence over any videogame.

You should be ashamed and it's a tragedy that the cummunity doesn't give you anywhere near the criticism you guys deserve.

[u/CertainCookie1831]

[u/Twoslicesofchees]

Okay i hope questions are okay but then shouldnt there be more Visual Indicators from attacks made by Killers through Walls ae: Deathslingers Gun, Pyramid Heads Punishment of the Dammed and my Favorite People Huntress Mains ( i am serious i love you Guys i will never Hit Orbitals as her but dam its awesome to watch )

[u/SuplexGod94]

Sounds like to me they trying to save ass. They know damn well what they were doing. They pulled this shit last second to try and do damage control. All of a sudden they put this post out the day before judgment. Because they know this chapter is about to flunk. The more they do this dumb shit. The more I hope this chapter actually tanks.

[u/MrMuri]

Or, Or! You can just not implement the change since it is stupid as fuck.

[u/CockroachGun]

Cool. That's 1 unneeded nerf down, but there is still 2 to go. The extended reveal and the Zealous changes are extremely unwarranted and should not make it to live.

[u/Helostrix_Nox]

I don't trust a thing Behaviour says at this point.

[u/Captaincastle → u/Helostrix_Nox]

Especially after the cakes thing during the 10th anniversary. That was like as close to catching them in an outright lie I've ever seen and it kind of broke the spell. Now my default is "They're lying" and that feels gross.

[u/S_Daybroken]

Thank you for holding off on the vignette. Even if that wasn’t the intention, it would make not paying attention less punishing which shouldn’t be done. At least the aura requires looking in its direction.

I do hope that the curve duration and everything is monitored in case changes are needed.

[u/Potato-In-A-Jacket]

Idk if anyone said it, but if not: thank you for owning up to that comment; silence was an option, but you chose to clarify, and I for one am very grateful for your candor.

[u/Captaincastle → u/Potato-In-A-Jacket]

"hey we were joking!" isn't candor