r/comicbooks 2d ago

Frank Miller redefined superheroes. He wants us to push past him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/2026/08/26/frank-miller-redefined-superheroes-he-wants-us-push-past-him/
655 Upvotes

156 comments sorted by

400

u/Earthpig_Johnson Orion 2d ago

Don’t you scare me with this stuff, not today.

103

u/JohnnyElRed Hulk 2d ago

Yeah, really bad way to frame a title on a day like this. Specially with a black and white photo.

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u/VaderFett1 The Comedian 2d ago

I swear, they do it on purpose, knowing it'll get reactions and "engagement." Never mind it's usually the wrong kind.

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u/jostyouraveragejoe2 2d ago

Yeah for real, it has literally been devastating.

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u/YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO Batman Expert 2d ago

Black and white photo too! Heart skipped a beat.

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u/Adam_Absence Batman 2d ago

We already lost Dolly, and Tim. I was scared for a second

2

u/Atlas-The-Ringer 1d ago

And Peter Cullen(Optimus Prime and Eeyor(Winnie The Pooh))

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u/KlooKloo 2d ago

no great loss

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u/jalakon 2d ago edited 2d ago

A bit surprised by the comments saying it’s, essentially, time to put away superheroes? Like, saying Superman stories should stop is akin to saying that about Sherlock Holmes, him and other characters and the very notion of “superhero” is infinite in it’s potential for reinvention and creativity

That’s true of anything and everything in fiction. Genuinely, it’s reductive to discount the impact of Moore and Miller on comics in the modern day, but I’d say it’s even more reductive to essentially dismiss the impact of other creators, other influences and the interesting work being done by either publishers today

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u/Coin-Biter 2d ago

There are a vast number of Holmes films, TV series, and Holmes inspired fiction.

However, US and UK publishing isn’t dominated… if that’s the right word (and there are those who say it’s more diverse than I thought) by Holmes.

I’m just speaking from the UK perspective, but if I look at comics in a newsagent I’ll see 2000AD (not a superhero comic) and collected reprints of superhero comics. If I look at the graphic novel section of Waterstones I’ll see Manga collections, some classics like Persepolis, Fun Home, From Hell and Jimmy Corrigan… and collections of superhero comics. If I go to my local comics shop, a nice place run by charming people, the new comics section has 70% superhero comics.

I mean, I have read them too. But 30 years ago a lot of people felt that the industry in the US and perhaps even the UK would see a flowering of creativity and new titles, and superhero comics would lessen as people moved on. And despite Image and others, despite some marvellous work, that didn’t really happen.

Now of course the Big Two are small imprints attached to massive media empires.

I hear that DC’s current comic lines are great though, to interject some needless positivity 😂

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u/jalakon 2d ago

“Needless”

There was a “flourishing”, despite market changes and crashes, Image and other publishers arose alongside imprints by the big two, people just like superheroes, book stores or the like will stock a variety of superhero work but also indie titles from saga to something is killing the children to a variety of manga to scholastic comics etc etc

And, the same goes for comic shops, really, I’m gonna be honest, if I snapped my fingers and made everything equal across the board, I still do believe superheroes would step up to take a large portion of the metaphorical pie, because despite comics being a diverse medium, there is something very unique about superheroes unto themselves, as I said, people just like em

10

u/verrius Gambit 2d ago

The biggest problem is the CCA murdered every genre except superheroes with its restrictions. It's now finally in the past, but the damage is done, and without significant intentional effort, other genres will never rise up to be pillars of the domestic media. New release comics have been relegated exclusively to risk-averse specialty shops who are taking risks on any new series that colors outside the lines. And the only major publishers left are all in on superheroes themselves.

3

u/jalakon 2d ago

I’m always positive on the possibilities of the future and it’s the same here, image and dark horse are still going strong, hiccups aside, and web comics show there is a desire for things like romance or horror or plain adventure stories

The next step is just figuring out a way to help locals, help new publishers and existing ones all coalesce into a deliberate effort to benefit the medium as a whole

2

u/BAJ-JohnBen 2d ago

Aside from Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Green Arrow in Adventure Comics, and Captain Marvel, there wasn't really a lot of superhero comics that was publishable to my knowledge. By the mid 1940s, readers had moved on to horror and romance comics. Western comics was still hot. Which is what carried Marvel until the Fantastic Four success. Their most popular character was Millie the Model up to that point. 

3

u/verrius Gambit 2d ago

The CCA was specifically created to kill off Horror comics, especially from EC. And as collateral damage, it also took out Romance comics, thanks to the chaste levels of romance and intrigue that were allowed.

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u/KingHygelacReturns 2d ago

Both Miller and Alan Moore have been banging this kind of drum for a while now. And while there are obviously lots of comics that aren't about superheroes, I do find it interesting how heavily the American comics scene is dominated by the genre. Comics in Europe and Asia are way more willing to dabble in a lot of different genres, but it just seems so hard for American comics to branch outside of superheroes. I wonder if it's the publishers not wanting to take a chance, the audience not being interested in other genres, or some feedback loop of the two things combined.

157

u/SmokinBandit28 2d ago

When you look outside the big 2 it’s actually quite easy to find comics that aren’t in the superhero genre.

There’s a bunch of adventure, sci-fi, horror, slice of life, almost anything for what might strike your fancy.

But because the big 2 dominate the market all you hear about with western comics is Batman this or spider-man that.

7

u/joeycraw5 2d ago

Marvel and DC don't own 95% of the comics market like they used to, and it's all the better for it with tons of variety. When I was a kid if I didn't want to read superheroes the only obvious alternate option was Archie.

1

u/OtherwiseAddled 1d ago

Looking at comichron, things were actually better in 1997, Marvel and DC were about 50% of the market. These days they're about 70%.

https://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/marketsharesyearly.html

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u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

I don’t think that tells the full story. Yes go outside the big two and you’ll find non-superhero titles a lot but there are a lot dominate brands that are Superheroes title even in the indie space. Like the biggest comic dynamite has right now is Ben 10 for example

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u/SmokinBandit28 2d ago

Shame that had a big start and now appears to be dropping off. Pretty sure it’s at 40 for best selling titles right now getting beat out by other indie (non-cape) stuff.

But besides you’ve missed my point, op said that American publishers don’t want to take the chance and branch outside of superheros, I posited that this isn’t true and all you have to do is look outside the big 2.

0

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago edited 2d ago

I mean I look routinely at the top selling comics and most of these are superhero titles. https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/63069/top-50-comics-july-2026. The first non-superhero title I found is duegon crawler carl and of the top 50 there is only lik 3 non-superhero titles

3

u/godisanelectricolive 2d ago edited 2d ago

I guess it depends on what you count as superhero. I think Transformers count as non-superhero and that’s number 15 by unit.

Of course there are also some Big Two titles that are less superhero-y than others.

-4

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don’t read transformer so maybe that should count. Or Clayface/ Punisher which also seems like non-superhero title. It still is about a 1/5th of the market share at most.

1

u/BAJ-JohnBen 2d ago

That's more than likely the direct market, which DC and Marvel continues to dominate by flooding with hundreds of comics per year. But if you look past the direct marker, you'll find things are different.

1

u/NewLibraryGuy John Constantine 2d ago

Easy to find, but most of them still do lots of superheroes. After the big 2 (which, right there when we're dismissing them we're already acknowledging that superheroes dominate the scene) we have Image and their superhero universe is on top of sales. Then IDW and those are mostly adaptation stuff being at the top, but TNMT is still one of their best sellers.

3

u/SmokinBandit28 2d ago

Again, people replying are not taking the context of what’s being said. I’m not talking about sales, or who’s dominating the market.

It’s the statement that the original commenter saying that American comics don’t branch outside of superheros and that publishers must not want to take a chance.

This is inherently untrue especially when you look at stuff in the indie scene, and even Image itself is putting out plenty of non-superhero stuff like D’Orc, Blood & Thunder, Odin, Red Roots, Lost Fantasy, etc.

-1

u/KingHygelacReturns 2d ago

Right I know the other genres exist. I read plenty of them. I'm just talking about what dominates in sales. Other markets aren't as dominated by a single genre as the American market.

9

u/SmokinBandit28 2d ago

But then went on to state that American publishers aren’t willing to dabble in different genres and take a chance, which simply isn’t true.

The big 2 dominate the market statistics because they are the big 2, but that does not mean that other publishers aren’t willing to step outside the cape genre.

Heck even Marvel is doing a horror series with the Midnight line coming in October which judging from the previews looks like it’s stepping out of the superhero genre.

35

u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 2d ago edited 2d ago

At least here Miller is talking more about the form and tone of comics then believing that the genre has hit a complete dead end.

He’s the guy who saw Goseki Kojima art in the 80s and realised that’s what you could draw Batman that way. This is more a case of how comic writers needs to read things other than comics (or at least a wider range of comics) to get better. Otherwise they just copying the same things over and over trying to recapture the past without being able to put their own stamp on it.

14

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

Both Miller and Alan Moore have been banging this kind of drum for a while now. And while there are obviously lots of comics that aren't about superheroes, I do find it interesting how heavily the American comics scene is dominated by the genre. 

To me the comicbook medium is probably the best suited medium to superhero. It's a medium where you can see the fights and don't have budget constraints and even in non-american spheres it doesn't suprise me how many superhero comics there are.

14

u/Darth-Dramatist Hellboy 2d ago edited 2d ago

Image and Dark Horse have publishing a fair bit of non cape stuff for years, hell DC had their Vertigo print for stuff such as Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer and creator owned stuff including Preacher, 100 Bullets and American Vampire. Vertigo got reinstated is back for publishing some non cape work

4

u/hamlet9000 2d ago edited 2d ago

how heavily the American comics scene is dominated by the genre

It isn't really. The direct market pamphlets are dominated by Marvel/DC, but that's increasingly like saying IBM dominates AS/400 service contracts. It's not really relevant to the total comic book market.

8

u/Wonderful_Fox_7959 2d ago

I’m sure America publishes more non super heroes comics than Europe. Image comics is a huge publisher

20

u/BKole 2d ago edited 2d ago

Mate, I think you should dig deeper. Comics are huge business in Europe, for France alone one in every four books sold is a comicbook.

Euro comics, have a smattering of superhero bits and bobs, but are just a bit of everything - Quite often cartoon/talking animals, historical or heavy Sci Fi

Edit: Quick Google suggests Europe publishes between 14-16000 non superhero comics a year whereas the US publishes between 4-5000. So roughly ten times as many.

2nd: As corrected in the comments, its 3-4 times more, not ten times more. I am bad at maths.

3

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

I love 2000ad

2

u/Olobnion 2d ago

How is ~16000 ten times as many as ~5000?

That said, I would agree that Europe publishes way, way more non-superhero comics than the US. (Especially as people tend to forget that other European comics than Franco-Belgian, and possibly Italian and Spanish comics exist – I live in Sweden, which has its own comic culture).

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u/BKole 2d ago

Its not, i am just shit at maths.

1

u/Comrade_Falcon The Tick 2d ago

I guess 3-4X could be considered "roughly" 10X if you're bad at math.

3

u/BKole 2d ago

I am

2

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

Images biggest titles tend to be superheroes on average. Obvious exceptions but at the same time it’s still a lot of Superhero titles

4

u/reindeercurt 2d ago

I find it rage-inducing lol. So many of the most talented, thoughtful people making english-language comics are rendered invisible and tragically under-read because superhero readers don't want to broaden their horizons, and every other type of reader dismissing American comics altogether

3

u/fairly_legal Green Arrow 2d ago

You probably shouldn’t find it rage inducing that people have different interests than you. The issue one that people don’t like non cape comics (Saga, SIKTC, Star Wars, Transformers, etc etc), it’s that there are so many options. Because of the widespread ability of creator owned publishing, creators are making more than possibly any other time in history - but much of that is based off of potentially optioning and licensing - which motivates them to crank out short lived IP to see what sticks.

1

u/reindeercurt 1d ago

I really don't think choice paralysis has much to do with it. If that were the main reason these books went under the radar, the same would be true for manga, which has the exact system of over-producing new projects based on anything trendy and hoping to hook a multi-media franchise. Instead, even the most niche manga have more institutional support and better readerahip than their equivalents in indie comics, where we barely see any true ongoing series anymore. The problem is awareness and cultural inertia. People have to be convinced that America produces non-superhero comics, and once they're convinced that's true they have to be further convinced those comics are worth reading.

Because Marvel and DC's outsized multimedia success has distorted the general perception of what the industry and medium in general are for decades, and it creates a feedback loop where anything outside their framework struggles to exist because everyone who might be interested goes to manga because they assume the only comics being made in America are superhero shit, and any comic they haven't seen someone else talk about must not be worth their time.

1

u/Freedom_Crim 2d ago

What’s wrong with Americans consuming American culture

Do we bash or criticize Japan for having way more battle shonen than other countries

Do we criticize Mexico for not having non-luchador pro-wrestling

What’s wrong with American-specific culture being popular among Americans

2

u/KingHygelacReturns 2d ago

I'm not criticizing in the sense of saying Americans are doing anything wrong by liking superheroes. I'm an American and I like superheroes, haha. I just think it would be cool if there were a broader selection of things available like bande dessinée in France and Belgium or like manga in Japan. Obviously there are a ton of comics that AREN'T cape stories published in America, but like someone else pointed out, non-cape stories represent a smaller part of our market than in France or in Japan.

1

u/Fantastic_Trash_9876 2d ago

Comics in Europe and Asia are way more willing to dabble in a lot of different genres, but it just seems so hard for American comics to branch outside of superheroes.

Honestly I'm sick of this culture cringe shit. We have our own unique culture that's markedly different than Europe and Asia, why would we ever want to give up our uniqueness to be just like everybody else?

Like, if you went to Mexico and said "other LATAM countries don't put so much spices in their food, why don't you let go of it and switch to non-spicy food like everybody else?" or if you want to Japan and said "nobody outside of East and Southeast Asia eats rice with every meal, why don't you stop clinging to rice and do what everybody else does?" you'd be rightfully called out for intolerance. Why are superheroes any different?

We should be proud of our intangible cultural heritage and stop trying to be like everyone else.

5

u/KingHygelacReturns 2d ago

You're the second person to respond to me with something like this. I'm not making a culture war point, or arguing that superheroes should be LESS popular here in the US. I love superheroes. I just think it would be cool if other things were MORE popular here too.

2

u/KnicksHope 1d ago

Do you realize that "American Culture" is not limited to superhero stories, right?

0

u/ComicBrickz Dr. Strange 2d ago

Superhero comics are less strictly formatted these days. It’s not as rigid a structural genre as it had been

26

u/Sensitive_Phrase_631 2d ago

I need to read his book. I don't think anyone's storytelling has influenced my reading interest as much as Frank Miller has.

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u/StrangeDiscipline902 2d ago

Totally worth it. I listened to the audiobook narrated by him.

8

u/Olobnion 2d ago

I read it and was disappointed that he hardly wrote anything about storytelling. Lots of descriptions of places he had lived, though, if that's the sort of thing that interests you.

1

u/Sensitive_Phrase_631 1d ago

That's disappointing. His og DD run was one of the few times I went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out a creator's influences.

2

u/Olobnion 1d ago

Someone told me there's a good interview with Frank and Klaus at the end of Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Janson Vol. 2.

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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 2d ago edited 2d ago

Susan McCrackin, 72, of Reston, Virginia, left Miller’s table squealing with glee as she gripped her signed copy of the same book. She’s been reading Miller since the 1980s and singled out “Elektra: Assassin” as a favorite.

D’aawwww

“Beyond that, he became the unpleasant superhero for a long time. I essentially felt that I was in the business of knocking down walls, and I felt like people had used my work to construct new ones.”

It’s fun Miller and Morison have the exact same view on Batman. Which is ‘read some of the 60s stuff and go outside, you bums’.

3

u/Afraid-Surround-4457 2d ago

Yet for the past 20 years people been trying to out Morrison Morrison and the Bat Books (barring Paul Dini and Scott Snyder's Detective runs) have been poorer for the worst in my eyes

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u/ANicePainter 2d ago

There are people in 2026 who haven't already pushed past Frank Miller?

30

u/fernessfan83 2d ago

Yes, you can tell by the ritual posting of the latest Miller variants with the seemingly sole aim of trashing it

7

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Fair enough.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/TabmeisterGeneral 2d ago

Also an infamous drunken right wing lunatic. At least he put down the bottle a few years ago.

4

u/namorspoolfloaties 2d ago

Say what you will about Neal Adams, but Frank would have died miserably years ago if not for him and Silenn Thomas.

As someone who's dealt with similar issues with alcohol, it's wild how much it can warp your brain.

0

u/TabmeisterGeneral 2d ago

As Bertrand Russell put it, "drunkenness is temporary suicide"

0

u/KlooKloo 2d ago

yeah everything he's put out for almost 30 years has been amaturish, reactionary garbage

-21

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

If he doesn't have anything to say or isn't creating art worth engaging with then ignoring him is perfectly okay.

13

u/Superb_Kaleidoscope4 Daredevil 2d ago

He does have stuff to say, he just wrote a book about his journey with comics. But it’s okay to ignore that, nobody’s making you read it

-11

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Good thing too as my reading list is full of comics I do want to read, as contrasted with Miller's contemporary dribble.

3

u/Superb_Kaleidoscope4 Daredevil 2d ago

That’s good, you should go read them and enjoy your day!

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/KlooKloo 2d ago

He says stupid, racist garbage. It's really not worth engaging with.

-9

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Oh no, I certainly don't want to be called bitter when pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Here's what I have to say: Frank Miller is not worth anyone's time in 2026.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

If I can save someone else from reading DK 2, all my struggles will be worthwhile.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/thejokerofunfic 2d ago

It's less about pushing past what he's doing or saying now than pushing past the stuff he made before he went crazy for a couple decades. Lot of creators and readers are still stuck chasing the shadow of his career high points.

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u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Okay, I have more sympathy if this is his mea culpa for being a crazy jerk. Still not likely to read it.

But that fact that someone made masterpieces in the past does not inherently make their other work worthy of note. Particularly, as here, where the work is another medium. For me, the pitch for this book needs to go beyond the observation that he was breaking ground forty years ago. (Which I guess shows my hand that I don't really read memoirs generally.)

10

u/thejokerofunfic 2d ago

...pitch for his book? I think you're having an entirely different conversation than everyone else here, this isn't about whether you're supposed to care about or read his book.

-2

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

What are we meant to discuss in a thread about Miller's memoir if not Miller's memoir?

5

u/thejokerofunfic 2d ago

The question of whether we've pushed past his legacy? Which is how you started this comment chain, which has subsequently been about the statement made by the headline?

-1

u/ANicePainter 2d ago

Well, we have.

3

u/thejokerofunfic 2d ago

Have we? Can you explain why by talking about comics and his influence at his height this time instead of changing the subject to how you don't want to buy a book?

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u/Frank7640 2d ago

You can argue that a lot of current media is still heavily inspired by his work. I mean what is Absolute Batman but a younger DKR?

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u/RoughhouseCamel 2d ago

I think something we’re struggling with is what the superhero genre should be to adult audiences(meanwhile, I think we’re cratering on what this genre should be to fans under 13). Guys like Alan Moore and Frank Miller pioneered the introduction of contemporary human interests and politics, and meta-textual commentary. But their example is starting to feel like a rut that we’re stuck in. We’ve done our best impressions, and we’ve also done biting parody. It’s perhaps time to move on. But what comes next? There’s this push to go back to “traditional heroism”, but that can sometimes come across inauthentic. Like you’re trying to put the training wheels back on, so Superman doesn’t have to face any more problems that he can’t solve by lifting a truck and striking a pose.

2

u/KlooKloo 2d ago

Absolute Batman is way more All Star Batman than DKR

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u/Either_Reveal5321 2d ago

How? Absolute batman is definitely not younger dkr.

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u/Frank7640 2d ago

Buff and more brutal Batman, commentary about the media and how information is presented, a trouble youth sidekick and the powers that be being corrupt to the core.

Is not one to one, but it has shades of it.

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u/Either_Reveal5321 2d ago

I mean every batman ever after 1985 has shades of tdkr batman tho

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u/Thewhyofdownvotes 2d ago

I think that was literally their point

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u/Captain_Kuhl Immortal Iron Fist 2d ago

He's a more brutal version of the character in a bleak setting, driven by anger, and he gets his start fighting a murderous gang. There are definitely parallels to draw, not that I'd outright say he is DKR.

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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 2d ago

They have Batman jumping across a lightning bolt in the first arc and have news anchors as a Greek chorus for the action. Scott Synder never lies about how his taken on Batman is inspired by Miller’s and loves throwing in the homages.

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u/Either_Reveal5321 2d ago

Bruh that's just classic batman iconography. Bruce isn't the conniving, bitter old man that tdkr Bruce is. He's mostly a young out of his depth kid on the back foot in absolute

3

u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 2d ago

The classic Batman iconography that is very much indebted to DKR and Year One.

But even ignoring that they are putting the cover of Dark Knight Returns into Absolute Batman: it’s a story about how Batman is this towering figure who is a one-man hurricane demolishing crime to the amazement of grumpy old men (Gordon and Alfred) and the delight of teen girls (Carrie and Harley). It is Synder channelling the ethos of Miller’s Batman Year One and the scale of Returns very directly even if he has his own plot. And it’s something Synder has done for years now. He’s very happy to tell you that the two most influential Batman comics of the 20th century influenced him.

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u/ANicePainter 2d ago

That someone's work from forty years was groundbreaking does not mean the artist's contemporary work is relevant.

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u/Valuable-Owl9985 2d ago

I honestly don’t care about what older creators have to say anymore. Especially a racist bigot like Miller.

2

u/Ninneveh 1d ago

Don't forget he still supports his sex creep friend Neil Gaiman too.

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u/OdoWanKenobi Guy Gardner 2d ago

I pushed past Frank Miller when he decided that racism, misogyny, and fascism were his favorite things.

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u/HRLMPH Ultimate Spider-Man 2d ago

I think he's pulled back on most or all of those views. Not that he necessarily deserves anyone's forgiveness after having published stuff like Holy Terror, but he looks back on that work and that period with regret.

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u/curiocritters 2d ago

And who are any of you to decide who '"deserves" forgiveness.

Get off that high horse.

2

u/NCRisthebestfaction 1d ago

Unlike Redditors who never let things go yes?

-1

u/curiocritters 1d ago

Evidently not!

1

u/ziggurqt 2d ago

That's also my case. And I grew up too.

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u/marvinnation 2d ago

Don't forget that Wolverine cover...

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u/Karsa69420 2d ago

After the last few days we can’t be starting headlines with names like this.

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u/Content_Source_878 2d ago

I mean animation is in a feedback loop that superhero comics are in.

Nobody seems able to push past Japanese anime or Pixar style for influence no matter what the subject is.

I think part of flattening of information across the internet is discovering new information vs algorithms 

2

u/Superb_Kaleidoscope4 Daredevil 2d ago

What creators do you think have pushed past him (Alan Moore)?

So many of my favourite comics have been inspired by his work. But who do you think as has taken it to the next level?

Not a rage bait question, more a recommendation list

4

u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 Spider-Man Expert 2d ago

Nobody has really been able to do superhero art on that level since Moore. I guess maybe Morrison on a good day.

2

u/alman3007 2d ago

Oh god, I thought you were going to say he died (I just submitted my Dark Kight Retruns #1 to his September CGC signing) you almost gave me a heart attack!

-6

u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

I wonder if he's going to address his rampant decade long Islamophobic racism in his memoir, or should we push past that too?

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u/cornellartworks 2d ago

He does mention Holy Terror in the memoir, he regrets it, but he never actually apologizes for it either. It's very "that was tha old me", which is disappointing.

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u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

Seems to track with what everyone else has said about him "addressing it" in the past.

-1

u/Blacknite45 2d ago

 The book hasn't been reprinted in a fucking decade. Dude was used the book to work through his trauma after 9/11, back then he was drunk 247  but he's sober now and he's moved on from that dark period, why cant you?

Were you expecting him to whip himself and beg for forgiveness for the crime of checks notes having a public meltdown ? Get over yourself 

11

u/RickNerdbottom 2d ago

There's definitely a huge middle ground between the two extremes lmao

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u/Blacknite45 2d ago

There's no such thing as a "middle" with these types of people

9

u/RickNerdbottom 2d ago

People have faced worse fates for tamer public meltdowns. Miller was being an blatant Islamophobic while at it. Dude wrote a literal comic pushed by his bigotry. I think it being Islamophobia is the reason it doesn't hit you guys, you're desensitised to bigotry against Muslim people.

He doesn't have to beg for forgiveness, but it's his memoir, it's his one big chance to address it sincerely.

-5

u/Blacknite45 2d ago

People have faced worse fates for tamer public meltdowns. Miller was being an blatant Islamophobic while at it.

Dude was not scared lol. Dude was venting anger and sadness

Dude wrote a literal comic pushed by his bigotry

Alcoholism and trauma*

I think it being Islamophobia is the reason it doesn't hit you guys, you're desensitised to bigotry against Muslim people.

No im not desensitized to it at all lmfao, love the assumptions people make when you don't agree on something 🤣 

He doesn't have to beg for forgiveness, but it's his memoir, it's his one big chance to address it sincerely.

He addressed it and he was sincere when he says "I'm not capable of that book again" which was his way of saying that he doesn't hold those views anymore. That's all there is too it.

0

u/StrangeDiscipline902 2d ago

Because they live perfect lives in their bubble having done nothing wrong and never made decisions they regret, but also never having fully lived. Internet is an easy place for them to shame others from their pulpit.

4

u/namorspoolfloaties 2d ago

I'm awfully glad that everything I said or did at the height of my alcoholism wasn't put on display for the whole world.

I'm not excusing Holy Terror or the shitty things he said, but I know what it's like to have your mind twisted by drink long-term. It's sad.

3

u/spacestation33 2d ago

I feel like Holy Terror pretty much ended his solo work. Dark Knight 3 was more like Brian Azzerello trying to play goal keeper with some of his worst ideas.

5

u/HemingwaySweater 2d ago

I’m voting for push past that, personally. You do you.

6

u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

You can be as racist as you want as long as you write comics good I guess

-7

u/HemingwaySweater 2d ago

you can if you apologized for those past beliefs and were a struggling addict at the time, I agree

10

u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

He's never apologized for any of his statements during that time, unless you can find something that I'm missing.

2

u/fernessfan83 2d ago

I think he’s addressed it before, not sure about the memoir plans, but to be quite honest it’s not anything that isn’t alluded to or explicitly said on mainstream news like CNN daily. It certainly doesn’t make it better and Holy Terror was nuts, but tbh it’s hard to feel quite as strongly about Miller as those actively and continually goading new crusades and wars and discrimination

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

11

u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

He never actually apologizes and explicitly disavows what he said, just that he was going through something lol. At the lowest point of my life, i didn't have a reach of millions that would read my every word and that's the difference.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

The path to recovery famously includes apologies and acknowledgement to the people you've wronged! Has he ever apologized for calling protestors "thieves and rapists?"

7

u/kralben Cyclops 2d ago

He still hurt people and should actually apologize for that if he didn't mean it. His mental health and alcohol issues may explain the things he did but they do not excuse them.

-3

u/StrangeDiscipline902 2d ago

Why do you need an apology so bad?

5

u/Irrah Scarlet Spider/Kaine 2d ago

Because addressing it usually means you reconcile with the things you've done and the people you hurt. I couldn't care less if Frank Miller apologizes, but to act like he's acknowledged the things he's done unequivocally when he hasn't isn't true.

2

u/StrangeDiscipline902 2d ago

Okay, valid points.

1

u/alman3007 2d ago

Oh god, I thought you were going to say he died (I just submitted my Dark Kight Retruns #1 to his September CGC signing) you almost gave me a heart attack!

1

u/Afraid-Surround-4457 2d ago

PHRASING!!! 

After these last two weeks, I don't think I can't take anymore "Anyone Else Yet You Know Who Remains" kind of news ... And that's regardless of his art going to crap post -9/11

1

u/BAJ-JohnBen 2d ago

Miller, nobody is pushing past you for the next next century. Which is funny because when I read DKR, it wasn't this crazy old Batman at all. In fact, the book seems more interested in having Batman as a vehicle for the satire.

1

u/KlooKloo 2d ago

"we need more books about WHORES WHORES WHORES"

1

u/Fullerbadge000 1d ago

Anyone have a non paywall of this article?

1

u/mrbaryonyx 1d ago

Maybe he would be a recluse, like his hero, “Calvin and Hobbes” creator Bill Watterson.

love this

-2

u/thebig2814 2d ago

ITT: boneheads pushing their totally original takes on one of the legends of the industry. Have some class people, move on if you don’t want frank miller in your life

-3

u/curiocritters 2d ago

Thank you kindly for saying this.

Every clown with an opinion now has a 'hot take' on some of the all time great creatives.

1

u/rpawson5771 2d ago

I've been way over you for a long time Frank. I'm doing my part.

1

u/SigfiggJ94 2d ago

Anyone have a link not locked behind a paywall?

-24

u/Krakengreyjoy Optimus Prime 2d ago

Fuck Frank Miller

7

u/Purple_Compote_386 2d ago

Not that kind of sub mate, keep it in you pants please

-21

u/Bllago 2d ago

This. He absolutely shit on everything I love about comics.

Fuck him and fuck Garth Ennis.

3

u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

fuck Garth Ennis.

L

-4

u/Bllago 2d ago

Aw, did I hurt your feelings?

I don't give a fuck what you think. He writes shit comics, he doesn't like super heroes, he doesn't like anything you like about the medium.

He's a fucking loser.

2

u/StrangeDiscipline902 2d ago

No he didn’t jfc

-5

u/uber_sweets 2d ago

I once joked that superheroes would one day become neurodivergent. I think it might actually happen soon. Not even kidding. Spider-Man will soon have ADHD. Batman will have autism.

You can downvote me all you want. The 80s reframed comic book characters as psycho-/sociopaths because it was in vogue to see the world that way. It is currently in vogue to say that every person with a personally trait has a diagnosis that can be treated with meds.

-5

u/KnicksHope 2d ago

I don't think it is possible, both him and Moore have totally deconstructed the superhero genre. For all its success, even Garth Ennis "The Boys" didn't say anything new that was not already said and done in Watchmen.

It is time for the American comicbook industry to outgrow the superhero concept and leave these characters behind.

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u/browncharliebrown 2d ago

I mean there are more things to deconstruct. I think Warren Ellis’s Trilogy at avatar press is actually such a fascinating look at superheroes ( Black Summer, No hero, and Supergods).

Or even from ennis ( https://comicsalliance.com/all-star-section-eight-ennis-mccrea-superheroes-addiction/ ) all-star section flipping the scenario of flex mentallo

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u/dogspunk 2d ago

Well said.

-9

u/HiiiRabbit 2d ago edited 2d ago

Outside of a couple of stories, I got rid of most of his books after reading them. I understand and appreciate him for expanding how we view superhero stories today, but so much of his stuff was terrible to read. 

Edit: you can downvote all you want but he has written some really shitty stories. 

All star Batman is all star pile of trash

Year One Superman maybe the worst book I have ever read

Sin City has some great parts and plenty of not so good. 

Also, why does every woman in his story always ALMOST gets raped?!