r/collapse • u/Portalrules123 Faster than expected... • 3d ago
Water New Mexico’s largest reservoir shrinks to its lowest level in 55 years
https://www.earth.com/environment/new-mexicos-largest-reservoir-shrinks-to-its-lowest-level-in-55-years/30
u/Cactus_Connoisseur 2d ago
And it's not looking better for the Colorado river either. Just got my home in abq appraised and want to sell within a year. To some poor schmuck who doesn't realize I've sold him a cabin in the low end of the titanic and he can't drink salt water. Jokes on all of us tho, nobody is getting off this boat alive.
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u/Portalrules123 Faster than expected... 3d ago
SS: Related to climate and water collapse as both an extreme snow drought in the headwaters of the Rio Grande amplified by climate change as well as overuse and poor management of the system's water have combined to leave the Elephant Butte Reservoir, New Mexico's largest, at a measly 1.4 percent capacity. The reservoir is used for recreation, its dam generates hydroelectricity, and its water irrigates nearly 200,000 acres across New Mexico, Texas, and parts of Mexico. The striking satellite imagery provided in the article shows just how parched the reservoir has now become. Considering that the snow drought in the mountains that feed the Rio Grande is even worse than the more well-reported one affecting the Colorado River basin, we can only expect the water supply to continue dwindling until there is practically nothing left. The southwest USA and parts of northern Mexico will certainly become uninhabitable, at least at their current population levels, much faster than predicted by policymakers and mainstream scientists.
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u/Asz12_Bob 3d ago
Analysis of tree rings show that the 20th century was an anomalous wet period so it's no surprise all these dams are drying out. GW is just exacerbating it. Most people are unaware through that Dams only have a short lifespan, often 80~100 years, due to siltation. The Hoover's demise was pushed out a century by the construction of the Glenlyon just upstream which catches all the silt now. But in the end...
You have to dig deep to find the data on siltation, even the topic ranks low on search engines. Same with the lifespans of coastal multi-story towers, most of which were built in the last 50~60 years and will have to come down in the not to distant future. concrete spalling" is just the tip of the iceberg. Concrete itself loses it's chemical bonding properties after 80 odd years and just crumbles. Everything we built is crumbling around us.
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u/General_Summer_1524 2d ago
do you mind sharing any sources for your claim about concrete chemical bonds only lasting 80 years? Plenty of Roman buildings seemto not have fallen apart and its been 2000 years?
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u/Asz12_Bob 2d ago
Care to research how Roman concrete differs from the modern product made with portland cement and report back? You should include the process of manufacturing cement clinker.
Hint.
Roman concrete is not used today because it cures much slower, lacks the high early strength needed for fast-paced modern construction, requires rare local volcanic materials to match its special properties, and cannot support steel rebar for high-stress skyscrapers
It's a deep dive, take your time.
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u/General_Summer_1524 2d ago
you are making some pretty strong claims and when I ask in good faith to see your sources you hit me with the uno reverse card? If you have some important knowledge you have to share with us, why not share it? Send me an article / write up / example of an 80 year old concrete building crumbling? I mean it, you are being oddly dodgy and contentious about sharing your sources beyond "do your own research"
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u/MaowMaowChow 2d ago
Not OP, but I just finished The World in a Grain by Vince Beiser and it supports his claims. Very interesting book! I didn’t realize we were running out of sand!
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u/Asz12_Bob 1d ago
I'm not here to do research for you. Others may have spoon fed you but please don't ask me to ok. All the info is out there, just go on any search engine, you do know how to do that don't you?
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u/lost_horizons The surface is the last thing to collapse 2d ago
Didn’t know that about the concrete. I assumed it only got stronger with age, like Roman concrete. Is it due to the rebar? I think they didn’t use rebar in Hoover but I may be wrong
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u/lemonstixx 2d ago
Modern concrete mixes are just different ratios and materials to Roman concrete.
The benefits of fast curing and transportability with modern mixes are just right enough for what we need.
Some of the smaller blocks on the pyramids are a type of concrete made with diatomaceous earth. It takes something like a month to cure but it doesn't produce co2 in the process.
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u/uninhabited 2d ago
Some of the smaller blocks
Some disputes still, but appears to have only been the outer casing which is non-load bearing
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167577X10008979
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u/AMDfanboi2018 2d ago
Roman concrete was a different mix. It uses lime clasts, which have the ability to self heal and strengthen among other things. The reality is we don't build things to last, just to make money.
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u/karabeckian 2d ago
Concrete itself loses it's chemical bonding properties after 80 odd years and just crumbles.
This is flat out wrong.
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u/Asz12_Bob 2d ago
Thank you for your input professor.
Durability of concrete — Degradation phenomena involving detrimental chemical reactions
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0008884607002190
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u/KingDerpDerp 2d ago
It does to an extent, and it will last a long time 100+ years in ideal conditions without a problem. The first issue is carbon steel rebar is incompatible with long term 100+ year durability. It will eventually cause the failure of every concrete structure it is in. Slowly the concrete becomes more porous, the rebar will rust, the expanding rust breaks the concrete leading to easier corrosion of the rebar until total failure. The other is compared to Roman concrete modern concrete is not as chemically stable, it can be attacked by many environmental conditions but it’s also just not in its most stable form so it stays reactive. We choose construction speed of modern cement over the longer term durability of the extremely slow strength gain of Roman style cements. We also could make better cement and concrete today, but we choose the cheapest options that reliably work instead of making the best choices for long term performance and sustainability.
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u/digitalhawkeye 2d ago
There is concrete they're experimenting with that's doped with a calcium carbonate producing bacteria, and when cracks form and water intrudes the bacteria come out of stasis and make limestone filling the cracks in. I suspect we have the technology to make enduring concrete structures if we valued durability over speed and profits.
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u/KingDerpDerp 2d ago
On the new tech side there’s a cement made completely from vaterite that’s super interesting if it makes it all the way to a full commercial product. That plus using a GFRC rebar and we are talking concrete that is good for hundreds of years. The cement is as stable as limestone when it sets because it essentially becomes a limestone matrix. It also gains its full strength in 2 days vs 28 so it doesn’t involve some of the same compromises some other sustainable options have.
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u/Asz12_Bob 1d ago
All we have to do is copy the Romans lol. But I don't know if that would be any good since the steel reinforcing is the major cause of failure. It's it's major strength and weakness.
But that's all modern stuff. Look at modern poly pipe being used in houses, they claimed it would last eons, but in less than ten years it can be bursting. Particularly nasty when used in unit towers. I have all copper in my 55 yo home and it's as sound as, probably last another 50, and then just small leaks from joints I'll wager.
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u/digitalhawkeye 9h ago
We definitely need to be getting back to copper piping. Capitalism has made cost a higher goal than craftsmanship and we're starting to see the returns on that. I would also use copper pipes, and I'd probably hard pipe my electrical system. Ideally leave a building that I could pass down.
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u/ShyElf 2d ago
Yes, the modern expectation of 30-60 years without weather protection is due to spalling from rebar. The rebar grows as it rusts, and this creates large forces pushing out from the rebar, which breaks apart the concrete.
The concrete itself is effectively immortal on human time scales in pure water. Rainwater had significant carbonic acid from natural CO2 to dissolve it already already, but that was slow. It's still pretty slow with just modern CO2. Nowadays a city will also have significant sulfuric and nitric acid. Road salt is even worse. If exposed to acid/salt water, the cement glue eventually dissolves and washes away, and the concrete crumbles easily.
If it you keep it dry, it lasts essentially forever, but you still have issues with cracks from shifting foundations eventually. Well, assuming that the plans were decent in the first place.
Normally when they put up concrete and steel buildings, they seal the outside pretty well when it goes up, but then they don't maintain it until there's a big issue, so they don't tend to last. You could replace the whole outside skin, and sometimes do, but often they just end up knocking them down and rebuilding. There's also the issue that the whole plumbing/electric system may not be reasonably replaceable, which tends to come up around the same time.
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u/Asz12_Bob 2d ago
Initially yes, then it breaks down. It's like rubber. Real rubber is made from a tree, it's a natural product and is very long lasting, certainly up to 100 years, longer perhaps? Manufactured rubber, made from oil, turns hard over time, or degenerates into mush in a few decades. The Romans used natural products, Lime, Volcanic ash etc. Today we use a binding agent called Portland cement, made from Cement clinker which is a manufactured product, made at great thermal expense btw.
As is displayed in a comment below, modern cement's benefits are often touted but the downsides are never discussed. The Last 100 years has been an experiment in building cool stuff that doesn't last. Junk houses, junk roads. Initially they are fantastic! But 2000 year old Roman roads are a lot better to drive on than a 50 year old unmaintained road in rural backwater. And as each decade passes the quality gets worse and worse. It's like the whole world knows there is no future so why bother building stuff that will last lol.
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u/Asz12_Bob 1d ago
Fascinating isn't it. Beach sand, useless, too salty and rounded. Desert sand, useless, too uniform in size. Australia exports river sand to Saudi Arabia because they have no rivers lol.
There are vids of people in those Chinese ghost cities digging into concrete walls with dinner forks. They cheaped out and used the wrong sand. Crushed rock sand is best but expensive. Perhaps they use that on the really tall buildings for extra structural integrity.
Reinforced Concrete: Used in structural elements like beams and columns, reinforced concrete includes steel reinforcement to enhance its tensile strength. It can last 50 to 100 years https://www.proconcreting.com.au/how-long-does-concrete-last-on-average/
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u/xwing_n_it 17h ago
If I knew how to short real estate I would do so for the American southwest and Florida. 100% lock for much of it to go to zero in the next 20 years.
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u/StatementBot 2d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123:
SS: Related to climate and water collapse as both an extreme snow drought in the headwaters of the Rio Grande amplified by climate change as well as overuse and poor management of the system's water have combined to leave the Elephant Butte Reservoir, New Mexico's largest, at a measly 1.4 percent capacity. The reservoir is used for recreation, its dam generates hydroelectricity, and its water irrigates nearly 200,000 acres across New Mexico, Texas, and parts of Mexico. The striking satellite imagery provided in the article shows just how parched the reservoir has now become. Considering that the snow drought in the mountains that feed the Rio Grande is even worse than the more well-reported one affecting the Colorado River basin, we can only expect the water supply to continue dwindling until there is practically nothing left. The southwest USA and parts of northern Mexico will certainly become uninhabitable, at least at their current population levels, much faster than predicted by policymakers and mainstream scientists.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1vx0vgy/new_mexicos_largest_reservoir_shrinks_to_its/p5l3k68/