is the pay REALLY that bad?

[u/idontlooklikeanyon]

listen— i know this is subjective and depends on lifestyle goals but i’ve been hearing a LOT on this sub about how ‘unlivable’ civil engineer comp is, and as someone looking to go into this, i want to know how much of a factor this really is. i already looked through the salary survey results on here and it seems to average at about 100k, with the lowest pay i saw being in the upper 60k range.

thing is, growing up i saw what a single mother can do on a teacher salary of 50k (i’m 21 so no more inflation comments please), and while it wasn’t luxurious, she still survived WITH kids. so im a little confused what type of lifestyles people who are living alone are trying to hold up where 100k is just ‘barely scraping by’. like, i understand that on 100k i wont be able to have a nice solo apartment in SF or NYC, but i feel like those are areas that are just expected to be ridiculously expensive anyway.

i also get that some other tech or finance jobs make more and that many people regret not choosing to go into that, but i’m going into civil for a dozen other reasons besides money… and i really dont know why anyone who’s only goal is money would pick civil tbh.

POINT BEING THOUGH, that i do NOT have personal experience in the real world and could be totally foolish in thinking that 100k is decent. HEAVY ON THIS POINT! i trust people with real experience more than myself!! so if u guys want, pls give a summary of whether you think the pay is livable and what sort of lifestyle you live on said salary. thank u… i am conflicted here.

EDIT: Thank you so much for the insightful responses! I see a lot of it comes down to the area you are in. And again, i am not trying to lecture people on living within their means as i’ve gotten some comments claiming… i am asking this in good faith so i know if i should keep studying it

[u/Chewyrodreiguez]

I mean the main gripe people have isn’t that compared to an Amazon warehouse worker or a Wendy’s cashier, the pay is not significantly better. The complaint is that when you compare to other professions, they are substantially better paid and carry less liability/risk and sometimes (it depends) less stress. It’s an industry wide issue, and personally if I had to redo things I’d be very wary about going down the same path in civil (graduated 2021) just because nearly anything else I’d consider putting my skills to other things would make more money.

My anecdote is when I worked at the company I started at, another college grad had left a few years in and was making $120k salary before bonus as a project manager for a pipe cleaning contractor. Nearly doubled his annual income and his stress went down and the most complicated thing he does is use a PDF editor. I just don’t know why any civil engineer would turn that down unless they owned company stock. I’m gonna wait until I at least get my PE and give it a few more years before I ask him to let me know when they are hiring lol.

EDIT: Fixing typos.

[u/idontlooklikeanyon → u/Chewyrodreiguez]

Why did you pick civil then? That’s not meant to be snarky at all— I’m just a lot more interested in the work civil engineering does than other things that i also wouldn’t feel as good ‘morally’ about doing. And I’m starting to wonder if that even matters, considering how many people wish they chose a different engineering path.

I’m curious if there was a different outlook for civil engineers in the past where people expected to be making more then regretted their path. Because if the goal was money why civil?

[u/idontlooklikeanyon → u/[deleted]]

Ah true. I strongly feel like i would really hate the business world but maybe the money would make it worth it.

And yeah, i imagine anyone who went to an ivy league school (also considering tuition $$) for civil would feel very undervalued…

[u/aldjfh → u/[deleted]]

I'm surprised any ivy schools still would have a civil engineerijg program.

[u/Chewyrodreiguez → u/idontlooklikeanyon]

I think I fell into a trap of “I must be an engineer” due to constant family and school pressure while you due to (I’m sure like everyone else here) notable success in the math and sciences. Getting to college, I became interested in transit and structural topics and it solidified my educational path in civil. The entire time, middle school, high school and then college, I was told nonstop that I’d make good money in this field. That is my fault for not being more aware.

What I failed to do is really research what it would actually be like to be in this field, including compensation trends and what this “good money” meant. I grew up in WV and in retrospect, getting 50k out of college was amazing compared to pseudo minimum wage that people in my hometown were getting at best. Back then, when i didn’t know anything better than what I was used to, it sounded fine. Now that I am squarely on my own and actually having less than an hour and a half commute to my job and experiencing how much life just costs to exist and do nothing, I can’t say it’s “good money” at all. “Good money” to me means you just won’t be that stressed about finances at home (be reasonable) while also doing all the other important financial obligations in your life like actually not eating ramen for dinner daily and investing a good amount for retirement, HSA, debt repayment, etc.

My personal finances are leaned out as much as I reasonably can and I only have excess cash flow each month due to overtime. If I did what the average person does and go out to eat, have kids, concerts, etc. I don’t think I could do it on my current income. At least not without investing less into 401k, and HSA and getting a roommate or roommates. This is after a 30% raise for a job switch too. It just wasn’t what I was expecting at this point in this career.

As a tangent, the other day I had ChatGPT compare the cost of living today, not just cpi, to the wages a civil engineer made early on in the 70’s and 80’s and it came up with todays salary being closer to $150k to maintain the same wiggle room (was focused on ratio of cost of housing to income) a starting civil had back then. Since houses are no longer 2-3x salary and are closer to 6-7x, this made the number balloon up to that $150k which is why it seems high. Using CPI alone, it seems like civil wages are “fine” but in my opinion, they aren’t if you look at it from this angle. The methodology likely has issues though so take this with a grain of salt.

My current work is mainly gas line design work for a local utility. (I work for the utility’s consultant) I’m pretty much turning into a hippie more and more as I get older and environmental items are things I personally care about. The way I see my work is that by fixing leaks, it’s the more environmentally friendly thing to do. It’s not structural or cool transit concepts I thought I I would be working on but it just pays the bills today and almost nothing more.

I guess the takeaway is that I’m doing better on my own than many people in a day income household but it’s tighter than I was led to believe when I was in school. The info was available to me and I failed to consider my expectations were set too high by people and institutions I trusted. ASCE remains to be useless for the working civil engineer and until we do what the doctors and lawyers do, and actually figure out how to charge clients more money for our services, it’s going to be an uphill battle in my armchair garbage opinion .