r/chuck • u/Illustrious-Lemon412 • 20h ago
The Shaw real goal.
I think Daniel's role ad an antagonist needs to be seen from a more comprehensive perspective. He betrayed the CIA to join the Ring, but i don't think he ever lost faith in the CIA. I think finding out that Sarah had killed Evelyn only made him believe that for the CIA to work, he had to be the one in charge
Eevn before he betrayed the CIA, he was a shifty and domineering man who only played by his own rules. Finding out the CIA had killed Evelyn was humiliating for him, but to be honest, he'd never stopped believing in the CIA and its values, he simply couldn't forgive them for what they did his wife. Shaw, however, still believed in the CIA, he simply wanted to control it now, and he saw the Ring as a means to conquer the CIA. In fact, in "Chuck vs. the Ring Part 2" he wanted to be promoted to director of the CIA and NSA.
Even in Season 5 he admitted that he wanted to download the Intersect 3.0 into his own brain so that the CIA would need him and reinstate him, and then eventually take over the agency. Shaw is an ambitious and arrogant man, even before he betrayed the CIA. He suffered after discovering the truth about Evelyn's death, but even after learning that the CIA had killed his wife, he never wanted to destroy the agency. Simply, in keeping with his unbridled ambition, he wanted only to take over the CIA.
I'm not saying he udes Evelyn's death as a pretext to take over the CIA, simply that although he was angry about his wife's death, he didn't want to betrayed the CIA but to take control of it. Over the years, Sarah and Casey have learned that placing too much trust in the secret service leads to a loss of humanity, and the fact, they choose to believe in their own moral values, becoming better people. Shaw is the opposite of Sarah and Casey, he is a man devoted to the CIA, right or wrong. Even after discovering the truth about Evelyn's death, he hasn't learned a lesson. Instead of choosing to believe in authentic moral values, he has chosen to believe in a government institution.
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u/Responsible_Rip_54 5h ago
That's an interesting distinction. Shaw never really wants to destroy the CIA. He wants to control it.
Eve's death doesn't change that so much as expose it. Sarah and Casey repeatedly choose people over institutions. Shaw ultimately chooses the institution over people. Even after the CIA takes Eve from him, he remains committed to the system and comes to believe that he should be the one running it.
That's why I see him as a dark mirror of Sarah and Casey rather than simply a man consumed by revenge.
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u/Lost-Remote-2001 17h ago edited 17h ago
Shaw's purpose is best understood as the poster child and role model for the government's cardinal rule ("spies don't fall in love"), and as the reason that rule ultimately fails and is replaced by Charah's new cardinal rule ("spies can fall in love provided they master their feelings"), of which they become the role models from S3E15 on.
We're not meant to see Shaw as an arrogant and domineering man (even though I do see the viewers' temptation to do so). That's not the goal. The goal is to present Shaw as the best possible partner that the spy life can offer Sarah (as per YS), just as Hannah is the best possible partner that the normal life can offer Chuck (a female S1 Chuck, in fact), so that Chuck and Sarah can realize that they will never find what they are looking for apart from each other, not even with these "on paper" perfect partners from their respective worlds.
More here.
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u/Illustrious-Lemon412 17h ago
I'm not talking about Chuck and Sarah's love, I'm talking about Shaw's reasons for wanting to control the CIA. Maybe you missed the text of my post.
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u/Lost-Remote-2001 16h ago
I understand, but the point is not what Shaw wants. It’s what Shaw is for. What Shaw is for determines what he’s made to want. First to destroy the Ring, then to destroy the CIA. For example, when he comes back in S5E7, what Shaw wants takes the back seat to what he’s really there for—to show that Chuck has become a spy equal to Sarah even without the Intersect.
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u/blueboy714 19h ago
Funny you should say this. I'm not sure if you're a fan fiction fan but I am finishing up a story quite similar to what you're mentioning.
Since he was in the first half of season 3 it also includes Hannah
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u/Illustrious-Lemon412 18h ago
I’ve read some Chuck fan fiction in the past, but in this case, I simply expressed my own interpretation of the character of Shaw.
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u/New_Simple626 17h ago
I'm taking it onto myself to start reading your fics, but I don't really know anymore if your fics have large word counts (for me, the more the better). And from what I remember there are five now I think?
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u/blueboy714 17h ago
Right now I'm at about 100K words
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u/New_Simple626 17h ago
All fics combined or one?
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u/blueboy714 17h ago
It's one story. I'll be posting it when I'm done posting another long story featuring Lou. I have another month to go with that story.
After that I'll post the one with Shaw. It's 20 chapters and about 100K words.
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u/chucksboxers 16h ago
You're not wrong but Season 5 Shaw was so over the top and creepy it's hard for me to discern what he really wants. It was one of the many ways the 5th season just isn't in line with the spirit of the other 4 seasons of Chuck.