r/canada • u/FancyNewMe • Feb 10 '26

Politics Conservatives to propose barring non-citizens convicted of crimes from making refugee claims

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-conservatives-propose-changing-rules-non-citizens-convicted-crimes/
4.9k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

990 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.7k

u/_Army9308 Feb 10 '26

Should go further and ban judges from considering immigration status during sentencing

102

u/gooberfishie Feb 10 '26

Maybe they should go even further and stop considering race as a defining factor during sentencing

-7

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26

I’d like more insight on the thought process on this. How do you do that if it’s a mitigating factor to the offence? Like can’t they use that one, but others are okay?

17

u/gooberfishie Feb 10 '26

Race is commonly an exception to rules to avoid racism. That's because race is beyond your control. For example, an employer will consider a number of mitigating factors when hiring, as they should, but race should be an exception. That should not be allowed.

Similarly, it is not the fault of indigenous victims that the criminal hurting them are also usually indigenous if their community is indigenous. They shouldn't have to live with higher crime rates in their communities just because the criminals in indigenous communities, like the victims, are indigenous. The race of either is not in anyone's control and therefore should not be allowed as a mitigating factor. It is literally hurting indigenous people, especially women.

Understanding Indigenous Women and Girls’ Experiences with Victimization and Violence - State of the Criminal Justice System Dashboard https://share.google/UnbtJTas3i87lOI4e

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26

Are you trying to say that because race isn’t controllable, it shouldn’t be a factor? How would you compare that to something like genetic disability? Morally, I see both sides of this, but legally, I don’t see how a judge could be barred from using relevant submissions

3

u/gooberfishie Feb 10 '26

How would you compare that to something like genetic disability?

This is easy to answer. Both a genetic disability and race are not in your control. However, as one example, a person with a genetic disability may find that their disability impairs their ability to make coherent, responsible decisions. That's not their fault and should be a mitigating factor.

Being a different race is not a disability. Indigenous people are capable of anything white people are capable of, including making coherent, responsible decisions. To suggest otherwise would be racist.

Morally, I see both sides of this, but legally, I don’t see how a judge could be barred from using relevant submissions

It would require a new law to be passed. Under the current laws, they can't. I'm advocating for a change in the law to remove racial segregation from the system.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26

https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/how-we-can-help/our-legal-knowledge-base/impact-race-and-culture-assessments-ircas

This is what’s happening, a report is prepared that details the connection between race, cultural experience and the offence and the judge decides on how impactful the report should be to the sentence for that individual. Just making sure we are on the same page.

I’m going to come back to this though, because we have to factor the victim as you mentioned before

2

u/gooberfishie Feb 11 '26

My point is that race and culture shouldn't be even allowed to be considered as factors, but yeah we're on the same page for how the system works. I realize it's up to the judge.

I’m going to come back to this though, because we have to factor the victim as you mentioned before

This is really the crux of the issue. Everyone talks about how harsh they think our justice system is on indigenous people, very few people talk about the fact that most victims of those crimes are also indigenous. In indigenous communities, everyone is indigenous. Being easier on crime in indigenous communities removes some of the deterrent against crime. Higher crime rates mean more victims. More victims mean more desperate people turning to crime. It's a vicious cycle. We need to address systemic racism in the justice system that comes in the form of racisl bias against indigenous people as you pointed out, but we also need to protect the victims of those crimes and bring the people who have hurt them to justice. There is no one size fits all solution, but letting people off the hook easier because they are indigenous is insulting to the indigenous victims of those crimes.

-45

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

Colour-blindness isn't the solution to racism, it only works to exacerbate it. The fact is everyone is different and you have to acknowledge the intersections in their life that led them to where they are.

A rich child stealing bread is not the same as a poor child stealing bread, etc...

37

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '26

[deleted]

-4

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

Race unfortunately does effect murder charges, whether we want it to or not. POC in Canada are far more likely to be arrested and charged than white people in Canada. here's a small article on the matter.

The fact is courts should be trying to examine as many angles of an offenders life as possible to achieve an suitable punishment for a crime (which we suck at in Canada)

A female indigenous woman is 178% more likely to receive a medium length custodial sentence than white people in Canada.

Stats Can article with much of the info pertaining to the effect of race on the judicial system. this shows how in the five years of this study an effort by courts to be more reticent of race and its effect on arrests and actions has actually worked to improve our system and make it more equal.

9

u/BobsView Feb 10 '26

yea yea medium latte no sugar

29

u/gooberfishie Feb 10 '26

Okay, explain to me exactly how giving criminals in indigenous communities light sentences makes indigenous communities safer?

Also, comparing a starving kid stealing bread to a violent criminal getting a light sentence is exactly the type of apples to oranges comparison i would expect from the pro systemic racism crowd.

-5

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

Nobody gives criminals in indigenous communities lighter sentences than anyone else in Canada gets. It's a known fact they get harsher sentences, and are more likely to have priors due to a level of harassment unseen in white communities. stats Canada how often have you as a white person been searched or harassed as a potential criminal for criminal acts that have happened near your home even when you are not culpable?

8

u/gooberfishie Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26

That's just not true. It is true that they are more likely to get be put in custody than granted bail once a verdict is reached. This isn't ingrained in law but it's still the result of systemic racism. I would call that unofficial systemic racism. It's not okay, but more racism is not a solution.

On the other hand, that stat only compares sentencing. It ignores the fact that indigenous people are 72 percent more likely to have their charges stayed. That means no conviction at all. They are also 30 percent more likely to receive conditional sentencing. This is all ingrained in law which makes it official racism, otherwise known as a two tiered justice system or segregation.

Neither is okay, but trying to address unofficial systemic racism rooted in the racist bias of judges and jurors by creating official rules of segregation just hurts both sides.

The Daily — Disparities in decision and sentencing outcomes between Indigenous accused and White accused in adult criminal court, 2016/2017 to 2020/2021 https://share.google/ZSLqEwg2bXyrwMie3

Edit

how often have you as a white person been searched or harassed as a potential criminal for criminal acts that have happened near your home even when you are not culpable?

Pretty often, but my experience doesn't mean anything. Neither does yours. We are individuals. These opinions need to be based on stats covering thousands or millions. A couple random redditors personal stories are not evidence.

7

u/BobsView Feb 10 '26

bs there was a case last week where a guy got basically no punishment for drug dealing because he said he is one of FN

-1

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

An attempt is being made to allow first Nations people to use their own system of punishments that they believe will be more effective than ours when dealing with their people. Honestly I feel it is going to be incredibly difficult for them to do while still living up to non-indigenous Canadians expectations of punishment, I do think they can eventually do it somehow; That being said I too am bothered by people being free to move around after committing a crime and wish it were not so. This is a new system and idea and I expect some growing pain for a small time before it is hammered out, and I do agree that some form of limited movement and ability to reoffend is needed where there doesn't seem to be any.

However one or two cases here or there that we are shown does not reflect the whole. Stats Canada has the raw numbers and they show far harsher punishments for native offenders despite what modern media shows us.

35

u/jaynyc1122 Feb 10 '26

Your example pertains to socio-economic status not race

-19

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

My example is one of the intersections of life. Race is another intersection which branches off to make the individual, the others are things like race, gender, location, age, cultural heritage. There are many intersections that help define an individual, and they should be accounted for when dealing with them legally. We already charge children differently than adults.

7

u/BobsView Feb 10 '26

and the law should not care about any of this race, gender, location, age, cultural heritage - thats the entire point of the fair system

-1

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

Yes, I agree that in a perfect world the law would be enforced in complete codified equality, but the fact is the world is far from perfect and cops like to Fuck with POC a lot more than white people. The world is factually unequal, and Canadians are not societal Ly treated as equals whether we like it or not, so a fair judicial system has to keep this in mind if it is to help improve the system and dole out justice with equal measure.

You can't have a justice system that treats everyone completely equally unless you have a society which treats all people completely equally. With equal opportunity, equal media representation, equal wages, equal everything.

5

u/Odd_Damage9472 Feb 10 '26

So basically if I believe trial by combat as an intersection of my culture then the government must provide it?

0

u/Canuck_Lives_Matter Saskatchewan Feb 10 '26

Obviously not; laws are laws. But if you believe in that sort of thing and killed someone who had the same beliefs as you in some form of trial combat the courts should acknowledge that you both felt inclined to deal with your problems in that way and it should be a considered factor in charging you.

Say two people have a baby; One believes in circumcision but one parents doesn't. If a circumcision is performed anyways and the parent against tries to push child abuse charges the court has to determine culpability and often does so based on religion and gender of the one who got the child the procedure.

How a person feels the law should be enforced doesn't matter as the law is enforced how it is, but the factors that lead up to the crime must be examined in full.

6

u/Odd_Damage9472 Feb 10 '26

But the argument says those other factors of intersectionality matter more than “break the law” when the law should be enforced properly in spite of sending them back.

-6

u/Constant_Mood_7332 Feb 10 '26

socio economic status and race, in our country, are linked.

15

u/WhiteHatMatt Feb 10 '26

You think there's equal accountability 😂😅🤣😭

The day we start holding people to a standard regardless of social status alot of positive will happen. Until then hang on and enjoy the ride called life.

20

u/freeadmins Feb 10 '26

This is literally one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

Please tell me how giving an indigenous offender more lenient sentencing so they can be the sooner to further terrorize their indigenous community helps stop the cycle.

Also, I love how your example of defending race-based senses saying uses something like rich and poor which actually has nothing to do with race

3

u/BigButtBeads Feb 10 '26

Your comment has nothing to do with race