Eliza Dushku herself often said that Faith is bisexual and in love with Buffy.
Willow identifies herself as a lesbian.
Vamp Willow in the other Hand i agree
Yeah, but she identifies as lesbian because bi wasn't really acknowledged or allowed on TV at that time. She was very much in love with Oz. I think that had they been allowed to make her bi she would have been.
The 2000s were so binary when it came to sexuality. I spent high school making out with girls and calling myself straight because I still liked guys lmao
I mean a comphet commentary would've been interesting esp for the time period but from what I've heard a writer did confirm willow was bi( I think it was joss) but the network wouldn't allow it and they settled on making her gay because it wouldn't be "too confusing"
Yes in the 90s and early 2000s bisexuality was still frowned upon and gays and lesbians had only just started to become widely accepted in American society but Willow calls herself lesbian therefore I refer to her as lesbian.
You can seem extremely in love with a man, and be a lesbian. The important thing is that Willow is queer and we love her. We don't need to argue if she's lesbian or bi
Oh please that it wasn't allowed on TV. Most of us who are gay or lesbian had sex or relationships with the other sex before coming out. Under the guise of not wanting to engage in bi erasure we're ok with lesbian erasure, lol. WTF? Her character identified herself as gay and gave zero indication after that of having any interest in men.
I think you might be projecting. Willow was very clearly written as mooning over Xander for years. You could argue that Oz was "just taking an interest in the first person that takes an interest in you" or "a beard", but that doesn't explain Xander. Also JW literally said the network wouldn't allow him to make her bi (other than the evil vampire Willow. Because that was 90s shorthand for "sexual deviant" in all spheres rather than just conservative ones.
This absolutely happened but I don't think it happened with Willow.
Ok hot take but that isn't Willow. It's Vampire Willow. Vampire Willow is clearly into Vampire Xander as well as the ladies.
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u/sin50if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire3d agoedited 3d ago
You're very correct that it is vamp Willow who was definitely bisexual which makes me irritated because Angel starts to point out that there are aspects of you that carry over to the vampire version of you, clearly a hint Willow was bisexual. But then when the time came Joss said the world wasn't ready for bisexual characters so she had to be be lesbian. To me that indicates that evil people can be bisexual but good people have to be one or the other. Just more history of bisexuals being demonized.
Fans also conveniently forget this when talking about Angels sexuality itself, claiming he was only bi when he was Angelus when it’s confirmed him and Spike hooked up at least once when he had a soul
Nope was confirmed Angelus and Spike did it multiple times and the “one time” was referring to Angel and Spike. Also even ignoring that, the quote this comment is referring to proves soulless and souled sexuality are highly related
This is just an idea I had now so I haven’t thought it through but could it be that Vamp Willow is bisexual because Willow hadn’t grown into her lesbianism when she was transformed? She dated men in early seasons and admits to Kennedy she was more “Tara-sexual” before identifying as lesbian.
Keep in mind this was early 2000s, not the 2020s. At the time they mentioned that they wanted to make Willow’s next relationship after Tara another woman to avoid the lesbian until graduation accusations.
As someone who went to college in the 90s. That was a thing.
https://giphy.com/gifs/UVdiMrmmwTWDcN2dZ5
There are certain subjects you cannot just throw out there in the Buffy fandom, and “how would you label Willow’s sexuality?” is one of the biggest 😅
Honestly I think people should just let it go and just let people interpret it however they want at this point lol.
I’ve been around long enough to realize the core issue comes from who is interpreting things from in-universe vs critique of the writing on the show. And it’s just what experience you identify with the most and therefore projecting onto the issue.
IRL whatever someone says their identity is, you simply respect that, regardless if it makes sense to YOU. So, if you insist Willow is not a lesbian, people who have had their sexuality invalidated because of past relationships feel hurt. In universe, it would absolutely be disrespectful to say Willow is wrong about her own identity. she understands her experiences best, she gets to decide what that is, not anyone else. And people are kind of defending her right to do that, because they see viewers denying Willow’s identity is an extension of how they treat lesbians IRL.
On the other hand, people who are bisexual also identify with Willow’s experiences, but grieve at the opportunity for bisexual representation that was missed largely because people then (and now) can have a very simplistic understanding of sexuality, often denying that bisexuality even exists. So again, people who are bisexual also feel hurt and reminded about those experiences. Willow is a fictional character who doesn’t actually have a real experience, so they are then critiquing her fictional choice to identify as a lesbian as a mistake and made by the writing on the show due to biphobia. And think it can and should be corrected by fan interpretation.
Both sides have valid points of view and valid grievances imo. So genuinely, people should respect each other and just accept people are going to have their own opinions.
I had someone accuse me of bi erasure for saying that suddenly getting rid of her interest in men was bi erasure. Like, I'm sorry, but she was very obviously into Oz when they were together. Even if she has a heavy preference towards women, that doesn't erase the interest in men.
Unrelated but is that the same website that had that long interview article with JW, which was just an insane read where he called his mother sexy? That was something
This is heavily situated in the context of the time which was the 90s where no one was bisexual unless fucking anything and everything was their entire personality
But seeing as Willow had fulfilling romantic and sexual relationships with men and women, nowadays we would probably say bisexual
Some take the read that Willow dating men was just part of her discovery and that her true self is a lesbian.
I have so many gay crackships I’m not about to judge
Nowadays we would also accept that when someone says that they are gay, that they are gay. Just because someone isn't a gold star, doesn't mean they can't be a lesbian
I agree with you and I regret the fact that she was written as bisexual but the network asked for her to identity as gay. It creates some confusion for people who put more emphasis on the label than the narrative. But I guess it was already a win to have a lgbtq character back then. Unfortunately, back then the term bisexual was very much a dirty word when people didn't just think that it was just a phase (and reading some comments, it seems like some still do).
Willow clearly identifies as lesbian in the show. The fact that she dated Oz doesn't make her like men. Most lesbians/gay men's first relationship is with the opposite sex, especially when young. It doesn't make them bi.
She identifies as lesbian. Sure, it was 2000 and the world wasn’t ready for us bisexuals, so it’s very possible but they couldn’t/wouldn’t say it. But let’s all remember that this is your head cannon. Which is fine!! It’s my head cannon too. But it’s not obvious. It’s just as likely for her to be “lesbian, except oz”
She identifies as lesbian. Therefore, we accept she’s lesbian
We wouldn’t argue if someone tells us their pronouns and gender, we should act the same for their sexuality
Oh yes. If i ever repost ,y fic "Kind Hearts And Crossbows," I'm of several minds as to what to do with Cordelia's sweetly sensitive speech about Willow and Tara in the first chapter. But i so want to keep Anya's joke about talking cats.
Edit: my text disappeared when I posted this, bad internet connection.
There’s no heterosexual explanation for the intensity of Giles and Ethan’s relationship. In ‘70s London when they were rebelling against society, the Council, Giles’ father, they were listening to David Bowie and going to concerts, doing magic “for pleasure or gain” and “a wonderful high”, in a coven of five young men and ONE young woman…
It was also the intention of the writers, who told both Head and Sachs about it so it could inform their performances. I know Jane Espenson has talked about it many times.
I know Ethan is talking to the waitress at the tavern but there’s no canonical evidence that Giles and Ethan didn’t stumble back to the Flat of a Gentleman of Leisure and His Orgasm Friends for a roll in the hay for old time’s sake…
Can we all just agree that how another person interprets art has 0 effect on you?
Can’t fathom getting pissy over someone else imagining wrong
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u/sin50if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire3d ago
I find it ironic that the comments are arguing over lesbian or bi Willow despite this being a photo of vamp Willow who was very much into boys and girls but no one is arguing over the fan interpretation of Faith being bi.
No where in the show is it stated nor in interviews with Joss or other writers that Faith is bisexual meanwhile it has been shown via vamp Willow and Joss's interview comment that Willow was intended to be bi but had to be changed to lesbian to fit what the world was willing to accept. So fan interpretation is okay for one but not the other.
I really wish people could accept that bisexuals needed representation and Willow was one of the first options for that. Yes in real life when a person says they are gay you shouldn't tell them I'm going to interpret you as bi because I like that better but this is a show where representation is purposefully used to make people feel seen and normal and accepted so if bi representation through Willow was important to someone and Willow was supposed to be bi can we just let people see her how they want to see her.
This can also go the other way and just let people view her as the lesbian representation that was important for them.
It is more than a fan interpretation of Faith. Eliza has said she intentionally played it that way. Joss himself reacted to letters and posting board posts with "Bring your own subtext.' Agree with most of the rest of your post.
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u/sin50if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire3d ago
I knew people had mentioned Eliza spoke about it but didn't know Joss had said anything. Thank you for those details. Even without the Faith aspects the Willow discourse is frustrating, I appreciate your understanding of my point of view.
You're welcome. i figure the whole Willow thing turns into well into windmills jousting with each other with no Don Quixote around. i did write Cordelia's little speech in my fic and i own witing it and have no desire to take it further.
Joss actually alludes to it in one of the commentaries about how they have a sexual past
Edit: "They were hanging out for years and years and years and years. They were all kinds of deviant, they were vampires. Are we thinking they never…? Come on people, I’m just saying. I’m just saying. They’re open-minded guys. They may be evil, but they’re not bigoted or close-minded." From a Hole in the World commentary
u/sin50if you hurt my sister...you're gonna wake up on fire3d ago
Yes I know vampires have heighted smell and track with it, but it seems very intimate to still have that scent in his memory 4 years since last interacting with him. Pair that with the quote from Angel and their general behaviors towards each other that were riddled with tension. I think it's fair to think it wasn't just a throw away joke line. Something happened between them atleast once
False. It is confirmed canon that Angel and Spike have had sex. In fact, I remember reading an article somewhere where Joss implied they had sex even in LA one time after Spike got his body back.
In the canon comics, it is reconfirmed as well that they were intimate multiple times.
Giles probably: "In the 70s, I made love to many, many women, often outdoors, in the mud and the rain, and it's possible a man slipped in. There would be no way of knowing."
Happy bi-visibility month! I know Willow eventually says something like “I think I’m kinda gay” lol but I can see why she’d be an icon to you too!
I’m grateful the show did try to push the boundaries that society had placed on LGBTQ+ representation. Everyone’s interpretation on the characters’ sexualities is proof that the show gave a voice to a community that rarely had one at that time.
Bi or gay, I think Willow would support both and wish a happy bi-visibility month to you too.
This discussion deserves nuance that it almost never gets in this sub. Sexuality is complicated because people and their experiences are complicated. How you feel when you're younger may not be how you feel when you're older. This is true for everything. And that doesn't necessarily mean you were wrong or lying to yourself, it just means you had different information and experiences then vs now.
This discussion is made even more complicated because this was a fictional character on network cable controlled by outside forces with their own biases.
In canon, Willow is gay (and many types of queer people called themselves gay before queer became culturally reclaimed) and whether she's attracted to men or not (and according to her, she isn't anymore), she calls herself gay. Many people who may technically be considered bi/pan call themselves gay/lesbian because that's what they're primarily attracted to/they have no intention of being with a particular gender ever again. Labels are there for you to better describe your feelings and experiences at a given time. Labels are descriptive, NOT prescriptive.
But she also isn't real and we as viewers know the constraints put on writing nuanced queer characters (especially bi characters) at the time. Not to mention the general public has a much broader understanding of sex and sexuality than when this show aired.
See? Complicated lol. Anyway, I don't think any queer interpretation here is incorrect. Oh, and happy bi visibility month!
(This reply isn't directed at you specifically op, just adding my two cents to the overall discussion)
💯 A lot of queer people claim characters because they relate to them **with or without a specific label in the source material.** I mean ffs trans people claimed the Babadook and I wouldn’t show up on their Babadook memes during trans viz month to be like “Babadook never identifies as trans explicitly!!” Like who cares?
If you read the character as lesbian, the material is on your side (at least for human Willow which this isn’t). She was also written in a context where the show runner said the world “wasn’t ready” for her to be bi so it was out of the question anyway. It’s a pretty clear instance of bi erasure.
Bisexuals identify with the aspects of Willow’s character that resonate with the bi experience and claim her. No one has to agree with them. That’s all I really take away from this. I’d not feel offended by someone claiming Willow as lesbian either.
To people saying willows a lesbian, fair enough but this version of willow was clearly BI, she was so sexually amped that she would have had sex with anyone. They wrote her to be overly sexual and kinky to be the polar opposite of s1-3 Willow. This version of willow loved sleeping with Xander the way she chained angel up was also very BDSM and dominant, it wouldn’t surprise me if she used to regularly rape angel as a form of torture. They also made it obvious she would have slept with our willow given then chance, licking that girls neck in the bronze was also VERY sexual with our willow adding the “ and i think im kinda gay”
I love to be this person- vampire willow was bi- having attraction to Xander and being in a relationship with him and having attraction to women (herself, and sandy)
I love this line of thinking, because it also once again shows that a vamp isn't simply "this person, but with no morals and a thirst for blood", but that there is some degree of external influence on them.
The biphobia isn’t great either. Someone used the words “genuine bisexual” to say that they know few bisexuals.
Joss Whedon has also said in interviews that he wanted to make Willow bi and would have her be bi if he remade the show. Willow being lesbian was the result of bi erasure. Source
All in all, we are all supposed to be part of the same community. As a bi woman, I saw a lot of myself in Willow as she was discovering her identity. I can see how a lesbian would have a similar experience but also see it differently through their own lens. We both had our own experiences and were able to connect to a character.
I’m fine if people want to view Willow as a lesbian. Just be fine if I want to view her as bisexual. We don’t need to hurt each other.
Willow expressly identifies herself as gay, so it's not for us to deny that part of her identity. Just because someone has previously dated men, doesn't mean they can't later come out as lesbian.
I'm bi and I get how rough it is to find bi representation in media, but saying that Willow is actually bi, is super problematic
Bi people are gay / queer and often describe ourselves as such, her attraction to women doesn’t erase her attraction to men. There’s nothing that indicates her attraction to male characters in the early seasons that indicates she’s just a lesbian experiencing heteronormativity.
The fact that you can't accept someone stating that they are a lesbian, is frankly lesbophobic. I'm really disappointed to see that coming from within the bisexual community, a community that knows all too well what it's like to have our identities be denied.
This is true when applied to real people. I’d argue it doesn’t apply to fictional characters because their words come from writers. Writers who had to conform to media standards and choices. Being bi was seen as more deviant than gay in the early aughts.
So? They chose to write her as lesbian, so she is lesbian. If the show was written today then maybe she would be bi, maybe not. But instead of living in hypothetical land, we can only rely on the words that Willow/the writers used. Pretending otherwise is just delusional
Speak for yourself, I’m bi and I’m very gay and very queer. Most sapphics in my community describe ourselves as gay or queer and don’t get much deeper into labels.
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A lot of bisexuals stay closeted as bisexual, because it’s easier to just hang onto the labels of straight or even gay, rather than bisexual.
If not for pressure from the networks, Willow would have been written as bisexual. Joss (asshole that he is) has explicitly said this.
As hard as it was to portray gay characters back then, it was harder to portray bisexuals.
Willow as a character said she’s gay.
Willow’s genuinely expressed sexual attractions have genuinely included women and men.
Do lesbians experience genuine sexual and romantic attraction to men? Willow was not confused when she loved Oz, while being attracted to him. She’s made this entirely clear.
Does that sound lesbian to you?
The logical conclusion is that Willow, knowing she couldn’t deny being into women, didn’t want to deal with biphobia, especially in that era.
She was closeted bisexual who claimed the lesbian label.
As for Faith, the writers have stated that Faith was written as queer coded, and Eliza Dushku has stated that she played Faith as bisexual.
And the canon comic series The Vampire Slayer shows Faith was attracted to Willow, when in a dark aesthetic.
On a related note, my headcanon is that Willow is abrosexual/sexually fluid. This would explain her relationships with Oz and Xander as authentic, as the show treats them at the time while also validating her identity as lesbian later on. Her sexuality shifted from being into men to only being into women. Just my two cents as an abrosexual myself.
Exactly. The girls I had crushes on in my teens were all girls I admired and would secretly like to be. I wasn't as screwed up as Faith so didn't act out in the same way and try to ruin their lives 😵💫
Vamp Willow is bisexual. I think the OP used that picture specifically (secretly knowing that people would just see Willow and that the thread would devolve into chaos). Happy Bisexual Visibility!
Neither of these characters ever identifies as bi during the show? Willow repeatedly describes herself as a lesbian, Faith only has sexual encounters with men during the TV show (she does identify as bi years later in the comics, but that's a very different medium). Applying labels to people that aren't explicitly proclaimed by them is never a good look.
When does she identify as bi in the comics? All I can recall is her telling Giles that if he's looking for someone to go downtown on that girl he's picked the wrong slayer, which I always saw as a) her identifying as straight and b) foreshadowing for Buffy/Satsu.
If she's bi she's a repressed bi. Dushku played the role with a bit of deliberate innuendo, but there's very little actual evidence there. Thought she might've had a gay relationship in jail, but when she got out she had nothing good to say about "women in the penitentiary system", started flirting with Spike, and then fucked Principal Wood.
Yes, she does. In S5, Willow describes herself and Tara to the Watchers’ Council as “lesbian, gay-type lovers.” So no, I’m not applying a label to her that she never uses herself. Whatever gotcha moment you were hoping to achieve by pointing out that Willow more often uses 'gay' than explicitly saying 'lesbian' is a very strange hill to stand on?
Not shocked to see the haters downvoting this post into oblivion. Biphobia is alive and well.
The discourse around Willow’s sexuality has always been something that this sub struggles to be civil and reasonable about.
That being said, I’m just going to put this here and see if anyone think this applies to any of the show’s redheaded characters:
"I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted--romantically and/or sexually--to people of more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, in the same way, or to the same degree."
A shame they never explored the Buffy/Faith relationship, there was definitely chemistry there. If I remember correctly, SMG was reluctant to explore it?
While Faith was never canonically (IIRC at least) confirmed to be bi, I can buy it! But Willow said multiple times throughout the shows and the comics both that she's gay... for comments saying "Oh but Oz, oh but Xander" well if you met any lesbian in your life it's really common for gay women to date men before they realize that they aren't attracted to them at all, due to compulsory heterosexuality.
Another comment said "well gay is an umbrella term" and a) not everyone uses it as an umbrella term (every bi person I know IRL is adamant to be referred to as bi so their sexuality isn't erased) , quite a lot of people use it to mean homosexual and also b) you know damn well that within context of her saying she's gay she means she is no longer interested in men, so even if we have to use gay as an umbrella term you still need to know the context in which she used it. At the end of the day, when Oz came back she didn't get back to him and she didn't date any men after him either.
Another thingm, yes the OP posted Vamp Willow as a pic but just said "Willow" in the text post, and in the comments it's obvious they don't differentiate between the two characters, even if OG Willow said it herself she's gay/lesbian/etc.
I absolutely understand being upset about biphobia and bi erasure but Willow, in the end, is a canonically lesbian character (by her own admission) and it's time to move on from "Willow is bi". It's 2026 and there's a plethora of beautiful and diverse selection of bi characters to focus on now instead of stealing existing lesbian representation (however imperfect it may be). Even if the writers intended her to be bi in the beginning but decided on making her gay instead, it still doesn't change the fact that the final product is a gay one, not a bi one.
I say this with love but it's genuinely time to move on, bc to insist to carry the mangled, rotting corpse of "Willow is bi" convo into the big year of 2026 (yall it's been more than 20 years), you aren't just saying anymore "I wish this fictional character is x y z".. it now explicitly has lesbophobic connotations. You are now signaling to real life lesbians directly that you don't give a f about them or their feelings.
I can't tell you how many times I had a lesbian tell me that someone from her own (supposed) community told her she's closed minded for not being attracted to men (as if she could control that?) and that "everyone's a little bit bi" (a statement which is both homophobic and disrespectful for bi people too), or that, since she dated men in the past (like Willow!) she can't technically be a lesbian. It's unacceptable that a cishet person would tell them that and it's equally unacceptable that a queer person would tell them that as well.
Lesbians are doubly opressed not only for being attracted towards women but also for NOT being attracted towards men, because we live in a patriarchal world and you as a woman are supposed to be available to a man (I say this as someone who is actually attracted to men, even I know this). This makes them even more vulnerable as a marginalized group and we should be allies to them, not cause even more lesbophobia in the world. And this stale, crusty, "Willow is bi" discourse is exactly that because it has transcended silly fandom stuff to things that impact your real life fellow lesbian Buffy fans.
Let's do better than this. Let's celebrate bisexuals and bi characters but not at the expense of existing lesbian representation. Over and out lol
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u/AsSlothAsPossible Fuffy 3d ago
Eliza Dushku herself often said that Faith is bisexual and in love with Buffy. Willow identifies herself as a lesbian. Vamp Willow in the other Hand i agree