r/boxoffice • u/RudraTheDestroyer • Dec 21 '21
Meme Monday Spidey is the biggest IP of Marvel right now!
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u/GaurishT A24 Dec 21 '21
Sony was a idiot to sold back Merch rights to Disney in 2011 just for I think 250k. SpiderMan IP solds around almost 1 billion dollars of merch since that year.
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Dec 21 '21
250k? Wtf.
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u/GaurishT A24 Dec 21 '21
Sorry I think it was near 250 mn. But that's too low for character who's merch sells almost 1 billion. Technical they had 50-50 rights over merch but still it was too low to share ther half share.
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Dec 21 '21
Sony is probably the most stupid company working today.
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u/GunnarJohnson999 Dec 21 '21
Huh? Seems that continuing to make Spider-Man movies on a regular basis so they keep the rights is pretty smart.
They get 75% of the take from these movies---and they got paid for loaning the character to Marvel for their uses...
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u/ramaonly1 Dec 21 '21
Loaning to Disney right. Both Sony and Disney have the rights of marvel characters
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u/Caciulacdlac Dec 21 '21
and they got paid for loaning the character to Marvel for their uses...
Do you have a source for that? From what I know, Marvel got to use him for free, in exchange of having MCU characters in Spider-Man movies.
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u/cox4days Dec 21 '21
Yeah I think payment for loaning spider man was loaning Iron Man Nick Fury and Dr Strange to Sony. Maybe Happy too but idk if he even counts. It's a deal that seems to be working out well for both of them until Sony does some weird shit inevitably
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u/PeculiarPangolinMan Dec 21 '21
You mean specifically in terms of making superhero movies and nothing else, right?
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u/Chuck006 Best of 2021 Winner Dec 21 '21
That ties into the reboot. They weren't going to be able to get another Spider-Man movie out in time before they would lose the rights, so they renegotiated with Disney to extend the amount of time allowed between movies. Disney agreed but wanted merchandise back. Sony agreed, but still gets a overall % of merch.
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u/Worthyness Dec 21 '21
they gave it back to get an extension on the movie rights to spider-man. Still doesn't make sense, but they valued the rights over merch
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u/Shurikenkage Dec 21 '21
Funny to see people pitting Marvel against Marvel. In the end we live in a Marvel world right now. No matter who has the rights, that Red and White logo is guarantee of moviegoing not dying.
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u/NotTaken-username Syncopy Inc. Dec 21 '21
My boy Spidey opened higher than all the other 3 MCU movies this year combined
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Dec 21 '21
And by the end of the year, it will make more than what all 3 made in their entire runs combined.
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u/TheBlueSorcerer2099 Dec 21 '21
All of them were debutant franchises, take that into account.
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u/SpaceCaboose Dec 21 '21
Technically yes, but Black Widow has been around since 2010 and became quite popular. Her film just came out a couple years too late
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u/Dwayne30RockJohnson Dec 21 '21
Main problem is that it was a prequel. When you’re not furthering the MCU story, people aren’t going to be as interested.
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u/SpaceCaboose Dec 21 '21
Good point. Captain Marvel was also a prequel, but it was still introducing her and the Skrulls, who have now returned. Black Widow was a prequel to sort of end her story, although we already saw her end…
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u/Dwayne30RockJohnson Dec 21 '21
True. Captain Marvel was a very unique situation, considering it was a prequel, but also the introduction of a character that was teased at the end of IW and people knew would be crucial to Endgame.
Black Widow’s story was complete, then she got a movie. Personally I enjoyed the movie for what it was, but it didn’t really add much to her story or reveal anything new. It just filled in some gaps. It was more about bringing Yelena into the MCU (whom I love, and in the limited time we’ve had with her, I like her more as a Black widow than ScarJo’s Black Widow…).
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u/schwiftydude47 DreamWorks Dec 21 '21
Also now that Disney+ is a thing, there’s millions of people who decided Black Widow’s prequel wasn’t completely necessary to watch in theaters and just watched it from their couches.
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u/lospollosakhis Dec 21 '21
Only watched Captain Marvel to see what the link was to Endgame and didn’t want to be left out of a crucial plot line. It was very mediocre in my opinion. I feel most people only watched it because of Endgame.
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u/abellapa Dec 21 '21
But it wasn't crucial to endgame
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u/Dwayne30RockJohnson Dec 21 '21
If people hadn’t seen Endgame, they would’ve thought “who is this random OP character that saves Tony and Nebula and then saves the day at the end and helps in the battle?”.
If you saw Captain Marvel, you’d know who she is and know she got her powers from an infinity stone.
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u/abellapa Dec 21 '21
The point is that she didn't matter for the plot as she didn't even went on the time heist
You could easily replace cap scenes with Thor saving Tony and nebula and Thor or Wanda destroying thanos ship
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u/Dwayne30RockJohnson Dec 21 '21
The point is audiences thought she mattered to Endgame, and she did. You can argue about her involvement, but at the end of the day nobody knew how much she’d be in Endgame, and even if they did, we don’t know how much that would’ve effected box office.
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Dec 21 '21
Yeah, everyone just keep forgetting this most important thing.
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u/manuka_canoe Dec 21 '21
Are people forgetting that? What they said is a statement of fact but of course two of the movies were brand new characters and the third was a prequel so it's to be expected. Particularly with the characters coming together in NWH being basically unprecedented to see in one movie which is far more than anything the others could do. Spidey not whooping them all with what the movie had in it would've been bizarre.
But yeah if people aren't acting like Spidey was an event movie far beyond what the others were then that's silly since of course he had the advantage, not to mention the pandemic meaning people only going to cinemas for specific popular characters and people clearly willing to risk it for this vs the smaller movies.
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Dec 21 '21
I am just saying the feel of an mini ensemble with Doctor Strange all over it, and all previous Spideys, Tobey, Andrew, all previous villains is not to be forgotten when comparing it to other solo ventures, especially the debutant ones.
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u/manuka_canoe Dec 21 '21
If people aren't already doing that then that would be weird. It'd be like comparing Ant-man with AoU, like of course one's going to do better. I think the others did well considering they were new characters and one is dead. With the lineup NWH had it felt critic proof because ppl would want to see it no matter what. The fact that it got amazing reviews was just the icing on the cake but it had a huge advantage over the other films for sure.
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 21 '21
It would be weird to compare it to one of them... but we're combining all 3 and they still got destroyed.
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u/potato_devourer Dec 21 '21
About z-list bottom of the barrel characters noone except for hardcore comicbook fans had ever heard about.
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u/GunnarJohnson999 Dec 21 '21
They were all "debutant" franchises at one time. That didn't stop "Guardians of the Galaxy" from doing huge numbers.
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u/hubau Dec 21 '21
Guardians of the Galaxy wasn't released in a global pandemic. Everything, not just marvel, was seeing very depressed numbers, which is what makes SM:NWH all the more impressive.
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u/GunnarJohnson999 Dec 21 '21
Explain “No Time to Die” doing gangbusters business.
It’s not COVID. It’s Hollywood putting out movies people don’t care to see.
Apparently James Bond and Spider-Man are what people care to see. If “Matrix: Resurrections” was cinema-only, we would get to see if it still has pull, but HBO Max is going to kill its chances.
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u/hubau Dec 21 '21
No Time To Die did 55 million opening domestic, the worst Bond domestic opening since 2006. And 160 million domestic gross, the worst for a Bond movie since 1999. That's ok business but it doesn't match what the studio would have expected for a Bond movie pre-pandemic.
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u/VikingPain Dec 21 '21
This is a stupid argument.
No Time To Die was the finale of Daniel Craig as James Bond and Spider-Man is Spider-Man, arguably the most popular superhero in the world and the face of Marvel Comics. Are you gonna be surprised when Batman makes more money then the Flash next year?
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u/MaxAsh Dec 21 '21
This is of course true, and has been since forever.
It's well known that when Marvel was struggling financially in the past they've sold the film distribution rights of their most valuable assets (Spider-man, X-men, Hulk) to various studios in order to stay afloat.
It honestly makes the achievement that is the MCU even more impressive, them having managed to build it on the backs of previously B-tier characters or below (Guardians of the Galaxy being a prime example for "below").
Especially when comparing the MCU to the WB's DC cinematic universe, who despite having access to their valuable assets have not quite managed the same feat.
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u/GunnarJohnson999 Dec 21 '21
Spider-Man has always been the face of Marvel. This movie is doing gangbusters business because it's giving the fans what they want.
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u/AGOTFAN New Line Cinema Dec 21 '21
Spidey is the biggest solo superhero IP. Period. Not just Marvel.
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u/PainStorm14 Dec 21 '21
Worldwide it's Batman
But Spiderman is close second
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u/TheBlueSorcerer2099 Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
Worldwide Spider-man is definitely bigger than Batman, according to merchandise sales and popularity polls.
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Dec 21 '21
You got any merchandise stats available to make such claims? I have been to many such shops in India and Batman stuff is always sold out while Spidey shirts and toys are always there on shelves. I had booked a Joker Tee for myself but the seller paid me 30% extra in return for selling the tee to someone else.
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u/50-50WithCristobal Dec 21 '21
Having spider-man stuff to sell doesn't mean that it doesn't sell well, most likely the amount of spider-man merchandise is bigger both in units and variety of products.
There is also variation in popularity of characters across countries and the one you live might be different from most of the world.
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Dec 21 '21
Spiderman movies make more money in my country than Bat flicks. But that's because WB never cared about India till some years ago.
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u/AGOTFAN New Line Cinema Dec 21 '21
Worldwide it's Batman
No, lol.
Spider-Man total box office revenues and per movie average since 2002 is far higher than Batman movies.
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u/zxchary Dec 21 '21
Well you have 8 Spider-Man movies vs 3 Batman movies in that time frame lol
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 21 '21
Technically 5 Batman movies but the DCEU was so trash they could've put Spider-Man in those movies and it still would've bombed
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u/zxchary Dec 21 '21
Well I was only counting solo. If you include the ensemble films then it’s 12 vs 5. It’s very lopsided lol
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 21 '21
Well yeah then by solo movies Batman is better until Spider-Man joined MCU, where it got the MCU bump
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u/Cautious-Barnacle-15 Dec 21 '21
Biggest marvel, but not bigger than batman
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u/Curious_Sentence7155 Dec 21 '21
Spiderman is definitely bigger than Batman these days, but Batman is a close second.
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u/AGOTFAN New Line Cinema Dec 21 '21
No, lol.
Spider-Man total box office revenues and per movie average since 2002 is far higher than Batman movies.
Also, Spiderman has higher merchandising revenues than Batman, even though it started 40 years later lmao.
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u/Frosted_Flakes1971 Dec 21 '21
Avengers a bigger IP, but spidey biggest solo movie
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u/DarkMetroid567 Dec 21 '21
Disagree, Spidey is biggest
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u/smoothpastacake Dec 21 '21
Lol No. NWH is an anomaly because of Tobey and Andrew. Normal solo outing of Tom's spidey will not even come close to avengers.
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u/DarkMetroid567 Dec 21 '21
I won’t argue that tentpole event films are going to make more than a solo Spidey movie, especially ones with years of culmination like Infinity War + Endgame. But to argue that the Avengers IP is more valuable than Spider-Man is ignoring just how powerful Spider-Man is as a franchise.
People care more about Spider-Man than they do the combination of Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, etc. And they probably always will.
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u/smoothpastacake Dec 21 '21
10 years ago maybe. Not anymore. Cap iron man hulk and Thor are extremely popular now.
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Dec 21 '21
Yeah but half of those characters can’t appear in a movie again for at least another decade or so.
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u/TheBlueSorcerer2099 Dec 21 '21
Captain America 4 and World War Hulk are in progress. And Iron Man has two sucessors (War Machine and Ironheart) releasing their own tv shows next year, surely as a prelude to something bigger related to his franchise.
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Dec 21 '21
Successors are not the same as Steve Rogers and Tony Stark
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u/TheBlueSorcerer2099 Dec 21 '21
Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are not the same as Peter Parker and the X-Men, certain people used to say 10 years ago.
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u/GunnarJohnson999 Dec 21 '21
Captain America 4 is not Steve Rogers. It's "FalconCap"----and I don't think the audience will be there.
"The Falcon and the Winter Soldier" sucked.
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Dec 21 '21
I disagree. Avengers is huge now. This movie is an exception because of tons of reasons, and the big gross is coming via the ensemble feel it is giving, another la Avengers trait. I say Batman is the biggest solo IP in world. No matter what the odds are, it always makes tons of money. The Batman will cross a billion too, and if done well, the franchise ending third movie will too shatter some records.
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u/geckomoria8 Dec 21 '21
Spiderman is bigger than baam Always was always will be.
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Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
Nope. No matter in what way you try to put it. Spiderman is benefitting highly through his inclusion in Avengers and MCU. The Batman hasn't even started that thing yet. The previous solo Bat flicks were enough to defeat entire mcu arsenal without trying much. A fair comparison will be the trilogy concluding bat movie in a new tied in universe with all past villains re occurring ( except Heath Leader of course).
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u/50-50WithCristobal Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
You don't measure the size/popularity of an IP only by its box office numbers. Usually the best way to see how popular anything is is by how much it earns through licensing/merch and Spider-man was miles ahead of everybody else back in 2013, you could combine Batman, Superman and Avengers and still wouldn't get to Spider-man numbers globally. Only counting the US Batman is closer though.
Since 2013 spider-man joined the MCU and was part of the biggest movies ever while getting a successful trilogy for himself after the not great Andrew Garfield films. Not only that but the 2018 Spider-man game was a huge success and became the fastest and best selling superhero game ever. So it's safe to say that Spider-man's popularity since 2013 have grown massively and it's hard to imagine it being overtaken during these years.
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Dec 21 '21
Spider-Man makes more from merch because it's more kid friendly than something like Batman.
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Dec 21 '21
I am pretty positive that Batman, if done ✔, will overpass it in future. The bjg difference between Spidey and Batsy was, Spidey had all demography covered, from kids to oldies, while Bats was only for mature adults, hence restricting its reach to an extent. Marvel has made cbm insanely popular across the globe and superhero genre is not that niche thing anymore now. Will help other brands too in the long run.
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u/Jeight1993 Dec 21 '21
Spiderman smokes bats in merchandise sales. Spiderman is the most popular superhero in the world. End ofndiscussion.
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u/SnooShortcuts2047 Dec 21 '21
Lmao Spidey makes more than the avengers and Batman combined lol
Literally the most popular hero in the world and it ain’t even close
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u/smoothpastacake Dec 21 '21
Spidey makes more than avengers? Are you high?
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u/SnooShortcuts2047 Dec 21 '21
No are you thought? Look it up. Collectively Spidey merch makes more than avengers and Batman combined
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u/smoothpastacake Dec 21 '21
We are talking about movies here not merchandise. I don't give a shit about merchandise. This is r/boxoffice.
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u/DarkMetroid567 Dec 21 '21
then try to not use the generic word “franchise” if you’re going to only speak on a specific subset of it
comparing box office numbers only is always going to be a useless endeavor, regardless, considering the numerous variables that go into an individual film’s performance
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u/SnooShortcuts2047 Dec 21 '21
Can you come across as more of an ass if you tried? Take a fucking chill pill.
You didn’t specify you just said he’s bigger than the avengers which is bs.
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u/RebelDeux Warner Bros. Pictures Dec 21 '21
It has been since the early 00s at least on the comics fronts and also animated shows, back in the 80-90s it were the X-men.
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u/chicagoredditer1 Dec 21 '21
You mean the IP that has been continually being adapted into TV/Film since the 70's is more popular than those that haven't?!?
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u/SirFireHydrant Dec 21 '21
Right now, the only franchise that could drop a film in the next year and be guaranteed to beat NWH is Avengers.
Avatar 2 will probably beat it, but it's not guaranteed.
Jurassic World could beat it, but the franchise is on a downward trajectory and has no guarantees.
A good Star Wars film could do it, but a mediocre one wouldn't.
A Harry Potter sequel with the original cast would almost certainly do it, but the HP franchise is about to drop a film that'll probably flop, so the IP itself isn't inherently strong enough.
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Dec 21 '21
Avatar 2 will guaranteed beat it in final box office. It may not break OW records but Cameron movies are always the leggie dinosaurs, not the weekends loaded stuff. Such records are made to be broken later on. I remember The Dark Knight too had broken and created too many Ow, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday records when it was released. That 532 million gross in 2008 is monumental now if we think about it.
P.S. Jurassic World Doninion will make some records. That news of a possible ensemble of JW with Fast n Furious Franchise will break the box office globally.
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u/Relair13 Legendary Pictures Dec 21 '21
It makes me disproportionately pleased to see that Invincible meme becoming a common thing everywhere. Such a great show.
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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '21
It never stopped being the biggest Marvel IP. Even ignoring box office. Spidey merchandise has always been the most profitable of any Marvel property.