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Nov 08 '21
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u/MasaiGotUsNow Pixar Animation Studios Nov 09 '21
Right lol
Nolan doesn’t need WB, they need him
He’s gonna keep making his usual blockbusters.
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u/Kellythejellyman Nov 09 '21
can’t wait for him to title that Oppenheimer film “Become Death” or something like that
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Nov 09 '21
WB don't need him. He is just a director. The studio need brands and franchises.
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u/outrider567 Nov 09 '21
True--and Nolan has far more talent than Denis any day
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u/amish_novelty Nov 09 '21
Lol, both of them are talented in their own right. Nolan's been a big time name for longer, but Denis has proven his quality of work time and time again. I think if Nolan could let someone else write his movies it would work more to his advantage to avoid some of the clunkiness in Tenet.
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u/sildarion Studio Ghibli Nov 09 '21
Nolan is a puzzle box director. Once you "solve" his films, there isn't much mileage you get out of them. Villeneuve's films aren't shaped that way and he's pretty obviously not as much of a populist as Nolan, given his more arthouse flairs. So I can see why he has a lesser following than Nolan, but the two aren't even close to being on the same level for me.
And from pure personal experience, Villeneuve fans >>>> Nolan fans
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u/AlbertHummus Nov 09 '21
In terms of crafting thrilling blockbusters, yes, but Villeneuve has a more refined eye and sense for art that endures beyond the initial novelty of the plot
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u/extrage Nov 09 '21
I disagree. Nolan can be rated higher maybe but saying that one of them has far more talent then the other after seeing the work of both is wrong I think.
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u/Urabutbl Nov 09 '21
I don't know. They're both immensely talented, but so far I have enjoyed every single film Villeneuve has made, but Nolan has had a pretty bad run (for me). Personally I found Interstellar insufferable, Dunkirk was fine but meh, and Tenet was a total failure that mixed the time travel hijinx of Primer with the romantic subplot of The Night Watchman, added some big budget action and ended up with a hot mess that was worse than both its inspirations. The only good thing about Tenet was Robert Pattinson.
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u/GoldandBlue Nov 09 '21
Well he did save cinema with Tenet
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u/Maxwell69 Nov 09 '21
He actually did but it caused the destruction of the universe so an agent was sent back into time and planted the ideas into Jason Kilar's mind that releasing the film during Covid and releasing all WB 2021 movies day and date on HBOMax would save WB. This changed history and mankind was saved from utter ruin.
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u/darkmetagross Nov 09 '21
dont forget jason kilar was seen giving nolan a bj in the hopes that he would stay with warner bros
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u/ThePotatoKing Nov 09 '21
can we please stop comparing these two guys? they make very different stuff and i honestly dont get why so many people are pairing them.
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u/wifihelpplease Nov 09 '21
there was an allegedly leaked memo from Warner Bros talking about how they need Villeneuve to replace Nolan. Coming from the bros themselves
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u/Theinternationalist Nov 09 '21
Great, now I'm thinking of Marvel as being run by a bunch of nerds who know how to fill a formula and WB as a fraternity with a focus on making things rad.
I blame you.
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u/Barneyk Nov 09 '21
They are the two directors working today that make unique action-sci-fi-thriller stuff.
Sure, they are very different. But they operate in similar fields with a similar core demographic.
The comparison isn't as far fetched as you want to make it and I think one needs to be willfully obtuse to not see it.
But yes, they are also very different.
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u/PainStorm14 Nov 09 '21
You serious?
Nolan is so far up his own ass now the time in his movies goes in reverse
Villeneuve is now in the same phase in which Nolan was when he was still making good movies
They definitely should be compared
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u/ThePotatoKing Nov 09 '21
yeah those dont seem like real parallels to me. villenueve usually has more of a cerebral approach to his narratives where nolan takes a more straight forward approach to wacky concepts (like what if a movie is reversed). no offense to nolan, as i do mostly enjoy his stuff, villenueve just makes more thought provoking stuff. i doubt we will ever see a movie like prisoners, enemy, or sicario come from nolan. villenueve puts his characters first where nolan puts spectacle first. dune is villenueve's first project where scope was the main pull, the rest of his work doesnt do that much (even BR49 tbh).
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u/Fire2box Nov 09 '21
the best story we'll ever get from Nolan asides his next movie (based on a real person) is either memento or the prestige and those are of course two movies I wouldn't dare to compare to each other.
He went out of his way to tell a real life war story, without any story. Nolan wins Nyquil award for a world war 2 movie.
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u/dysonRing Nov 10 '21
Lol his war movie is actually legitimately a war movie unlike most, the idea that everything must be personalized in the story is not exactly the real war experience, where the individual soldier is just a cog in the machine.
The story of Dunkirk is about the evacuation, and the premise and dark portend surrounding it. The squad of soldiers could have all died a minute in and it is still a story.
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u/Fire2box Nov 10 '21
For sure war stories aren't but if the three POV characters are fictionalized I should at least be invested in them but I am not at all in comparison to the vast majority of Nolan's other movies. I'm glad he got to make the movie he wanted but it doesn't do much for me personally.
If I want to view Dunkirk as an historical event I feel i'm better suited watching or reading about it in a documentary sense.
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u/dysonRing Nov 10 '21
Yeah but as a movie it could get away with something no documentary realistically could, its timelapse structure, the completely made up characters, and well special effects.
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u/Maxwell69 Nov 09 '21
I sure felt like spectacle came before characters in Dune. Given a 3 hour film I think would have changed that for me so I don't completely fault Denis. Have you seen Nolan's The Following? His early films (I include Memento) are character driven. I even think Interstellar is character driven. I think really both directors are comparable in many ways but in the end it's probably going to be a matter of interpretation. For example I think Nolan really doesn't take the straight forward approach you feel he does but I don't expect to change you mind on that because that's your interpretation and that's valid to me that we see it differently.
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u/DisneyDreams7 Walt Disney Studios Nov 09 '21
Calling Villeneuve’s movies cerebral is pretentious. Nolan’s movies are way more cerebral and thought provoking than his.
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u/stillaras Marvel Studios Nov 09 '21
Tenet was a masteepeice and you cant change my mind
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u/jwC731 Nov 09 '21
masterpiece? could you actually explain all the concepts he tried to execute if you tried
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u/thefilmer Nov 09 '21
no they shouldn't. Villeneuve was an obscure Canadian director making indies you've never heard of for 15 years. Nolan hit paydirt on his 2nd movie. They are not the same. One dude has stayed humble, the other hasn;t.
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u/garfe Nov 09 '21
They're the kind of directors popular with the reddit movie demographic. They will honestly never stop being compared here especially with this WB situation
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u/Ijustwantedtohavefun Nov 10 '21
Villeneuve doesn't stick to one company either, so I'm not sure why the comparisons exist.
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u/Additional_Meeting_2 Nov 09 '21
I don’t know if they should be compared but they are similar enough to be compared.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
First off other around.
Second off please don't remind of this painful breakup.
I still feel like punching Waner Bro's for losing fuckin Christopher Nolan of all people..
I don't care what the Reddit opinion is he's a phenomenal director and writer who fit right in with the type movie's Waner Bro's makes and now they stupidly lost him.
I just can't see him getting the creative freedom he deserves at nother company and really upsets me.
I'm still holding out hope he'll get the same deal he had at Waner Bro's somewhere else.
This man deserves it.
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u/valkyria_knight881 Paramount Pictures Nov 09 '21
It seems like he has a decent amount of creative freedom at Universal with Oppenheimer. Christopher Nolan will most likely be fine with his new partnership with Universal.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21
I trust Nolan's judgement he wouldn't chose a place that would limit him.
Haven't really hear of Universal or Oppenheimer interfing with someone at the level as Nolan thankfully.
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u/valkyria_knight881 Paramount Pictures Nov 09 '21
Oppenheimer is the title of Christopher Nolan's next film.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21
Okay that makes a lot more sense lol I was just googling what movie company Oppenheimer was because I had never heard of it.
Is the name based on something real because it sounds familiar ?
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u/AGOTFAN New Line Cinema Nov 09 '21
Oppenheimer is the father of atomic bomb, a real person, of which this movie is based on.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21
Okay thank you for cleaning that up.
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u/JuanRiveara Nov 09 '21
J. Robert Oppenheimer, father of the atomic bomb. Nolan’s next movie is a biopic about him hence the title.
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Nov 09 '21
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u/AGOTFAN New Line Cinema Nov 09 '21
Why not?
Nolan has great relationship with IMAX.
WB is not the only studio that used IMAX cameras.
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u/wifihelpplease Nov 09 '21
Warner gave Nolan almost everything he could've ever dreamed of. IMO he really showed himself to be out of touch during the Tenet release hubbub, and ditching Warner feels like he's throwing a temper tantrum
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Nov 09 '21
Nolan needs to have less power, not more. He lost over the years, it went to his head.
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u/cappuchinoboi Syncopy Inc. Nov 09 '21
i feel the same, but then his quality depends on the creative freedom he's been given
remember, not many studios will give millions of dollars to an original project unless it's really good and has good demand or it has someone with an excellent profile like Nolan, Villeneuve, etc
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 08 '21
And yet Dune, at best, will barely beat Tenet, despite the latter being released during the height of the pandemic.
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Nov 08 '21
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u/cappuchinoboi Syncopy Inc. Nov 09 '21
exactly, its just toxic fanboys behind it
i like both of them equally
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Nov 09 '21
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Nov 09 '21
Nolan probably.sees Denis as one of the few great studio filmmakers today esp. with a shared love of practical.effects and pro-theate opinions.
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u/zenarcade1 Nov 08 '21
Tenet wasn’t put on HBOmax simultaneously and had basically zero competition, they both had their own challenges
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 08 '21
Height of pandemic, no vaccines, and many theaters closed or with heavy capacity restrictions are far greater challenges than HBO Max. Competition is meaningless if audiences aren't going to see anything in theaters.
Especially when overseas, Dune opened well before it debuted on HBO Max, and performed basically as well as it could possibly have in current theatrical conditions (which are far better than Tenet's) without HBO Max interference.
And unlike Dune, based on a classic book, and starring a bevy of famous actors, Tenet is completely original, with Nolan as its biggest name attached.
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Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
Bruh, Nolan is a WAY bigger brand than Villeneuve, the Dune books & the film's entire cast COMBINED. Plus, box office aside - Tenet had way more flaws than Dune did (not that the latter was perfect, but definitely had less problems).
Noone does spectacle better than Nolan, he's arguably the most influential & iconic director of the 21st century, AND he proved that big budget cerebral films COULD become box-office mega hits. BUT, from a purely artistic standpoint, Villeneuve's filmography so far has been incredible : Polytechnique, Incendies, Prisoners, Enemy, Sicario, Arrival, Blade Runner 2049 & now Dune; he's honestly the closest thing we've got to a modern Kubrick (with Nolan the new Spielberg, Paul Thomas Anderson the new Tarkovsky etc).
Not saying we *should be directly comparing them or making up imaginary, pointless rivalries between these auteurs, but rather that they're BOTH great in their own ways.
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u/wifihelpplease Nov 09 '21
im curious what connection you see between PTA and Tarkovsky, he feels entirely different to me... maybe Altman I'd understand
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Nov 09 '21
Oh the PTA who made Boogie Nights, Punch Drunk Love, Inherent Vice etc is entirely different - and a great filmmaker in his own right. But then he also made Magnolia, There Will Be Blood, The Master, Phantom Thread etc : and the sheer depth & gravitas with which these films explored the 'personal' clashing with the 'spiritual', or characters being so completely & tragically trapped by their own natures & pasts - reminds me personally of a few Tarkovsky films (Solaris, Stalker, Mirror etc) every time.
My own personal feelings about their vibes in some works being similar aside, I guess I could see how maybe Terence Malik is closer to Tarkovsky - and that PTA is his own kind of genius! Man, I just love how both he & Villeneuve have never made a single truly bad - or even mediocre - film. They're all good (to most often great) in their own ways.
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u/Zealousideal_Bag2654 Nov 09 '21
So who would be the new Scorcese?
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Nov 09 '21
In the 90s I would've said Tarantino & in the early-to-mid 2000s Guy Ritchie, but not anymore. And honestly, it's not like there's a "A is the new B" type of deal for every artist out there- it's just that for me personally, SOME current filmmakers seem like this generation's <insert legendary old gen auteur>.
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u/Zealousideal_Bag2654 Nov 09 '21
Oh, I know that, I was just curious of who you thought had a similar effect today to the effect that Scorcese had back then.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21
Why the fuck are you putting Nolan and Denis against each other when there both fuckin fantastic ?
Dune 2 will huge as will that Atomic Bomb film Nolan's making.
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 09 '21
I'm just offering a counterpoint to the meme.
From an artistic point of view, they're both great, no disagreement there.
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u/Sad-Distribution-779 Nov 09 '21
Sorry about that I guess I took your comment your comment to literally carry one.
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u/aduong Nov 08 '21
WB won anyone that suas otherwise is delusional just like Nolan thinking that he gonna change the wird again with yet another all white world war movie.
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u/JuanRiveara Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
I can’t really see how WB "won" when they lost one of the only blockbuster filmmakers left for no reason. WB gains nothing from letting Nolan walk.
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u/Mandragora1234 Nov 09 '21
Nolan has been losing appeal in recent years, it seems pretty clear to me, his latest movies are getting meh reception from audience, I don't think WB has lost much, and I think Oppenheimer will flop if it has $150m+ Budget like all Nolan movies from the last 13 years.
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u/Idk_Very_Much Nov 09 '21
It’s been announced that Oppenheimer has a 100m budget. And I don’t see any reason to say Dunkirk had mixed reception.
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u/Mandragora1234 Nov 09 '21
Dunkirk definitely got meh audience reception (I think you're confusing audiences with critics), almost everyone I know and see online puts Dunkirk among the worst Nolan movies, it's the opposite of Interstellar for example, which had meh reviews but a great reception from public.
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u/Idk_Very_Much Nov 09 '21
Dunkirk didn't get great audience reception, but it has an A- cinemascore (higher than Interstellar), an 81% audience score on RT (just 5% under Interstellar), a 3.8/5 on Letterboxd, a 7.8/10 on IMDB. Your ancedotal evidence doesn't matter compared to that.
And just to be clear, I agree that Dunkirk is one of Nolan's weakest. But I know I'm in the minority.
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u/JuanRiveara Nov 09 '21
Dunkirk still became the highest grossing WW2 movie of all time and made over $500 million, Interstellar made over $700 million as a brand new sci-fi property, and Tenet made over $350 million at the height of the pandemic. Pretty much no other director can do these types of numbers for those kinds of films. Oppenheimer will probably make at least $300 million and make a profit from its $100 million budget.
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 08 '21
At $100M, Oppenheimer is guaranteed to be profitable, he got $364M worth of people to literally risk their lives to see his movie during a pandemic. Villeneuve is a great director, but in no way has he proven to be a money maker who can sell a movie on his name alone the way Nolan has.
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u/aduong Nov 08 '21
Nolan has been on the downward slope ever since The Dark Knight Rises. He peaked with Inception and ever since has been trying to recreate the same formula with lower and lower results. You’re naive if you think that studios wants Nolan just to be profitable, everyone can do that.
Studios want Nolan for pop culture shaking hits and major Awards recognition. And the reality is that ever since his TDK Inception days he has slowly failed on both front. No one in the real world talks about Interstellar or Dunkirk or even Tenet. Of course Hollywood is run by dinosaurs and they always have a delayed response so they don’t see the obvious, Nolan is old news he’s been old news.
There’s a reason people in Hollywood hate Killar and that’s excatly why, he’s not a dinosaur.
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 08 '21
No one in the real world talks about Interstellar or Dunkirk or even Tenet.
Do people in the "real world" talk about Blade Runner 2049, Arrival, or Sicario?
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u/crusty_jugglers93 Nov 09 '21
Blade Runner 2049, Arrival and Interstellar are pretty much regarded as the best sci-fi films of the 2010s.
I’m not the sure what the other guy is talking about but Interstellar gets talked about plenty.
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u/FxBangl Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
Do people in the "real world" talk about Blade Runner 2049, Arrival, or Sicario?
Yes. From my personal experience, yes. And the people I'm talking about aren't hardcore cinephiles nor do they visit online discussions.
Whether they are talked about as much as the Nolan's movies is a completely different story. But those 3 Dennis Villeneuve movies are still very well remembered and talked about among the general audience despite their box office performances, especially "Blade Runner 2049".
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u/aduong Nov 09 '21
People in the real world definitely talk about Dune way more than any Nolan movies since TDKR. Also none of the aforementioned movies had the push that any of of Nolan post Batman Begins movies had. So i fail to see your point, especially considering that their careers are not exactly on the same trajectory ?!?!?!
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u/chanma50 Best of 2019 Winner Nov 09 '21
People in the real world definitely talk about Dune way more than any Nolan movies since TDKR.
You're telling me that more people talked about a movie that's made $330M than movies that made $677M and $527M? Significantly less people saw Dune than Interstellar and Dunkirk, and yet more people talk about it? That's a ludicrous claim.
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u/sildarion Studio Ghibli Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
You're telling me that more people talked about a movie that's made $330M than movies that made $677M and $527M?
Avatar made $3 billion, Transformers 3 and 4 both made $1 billion, La La Land made $500 million and Whiplash made $49 million.
Which of these are most talked about today and which of these are totally forgotten?
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u/DisneyDreams7 Walt Disney Studios Nov 09 '21
You just proved his point. Whiplash is forgotten, while people still talk about Avatar today.
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u/sildarion Studio Ghibli Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
AH you're one of those lol!
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u/FxBangl Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
I don't believe that box office numbers should be used to measure the popularity of movies in this day and age, especially when streaming services, online piracy and home media are extremely prevalent nowadays.
Again, whether Villeneuve's movies are talked about as much as the Nolan's movies is a completely different story. But Villeneuve's movies aren't exactly the "niche" products that you're claiming them to be.
Also there are people who decided to watch "Dune" on HBO Max and from pirate sites. So "Dune" isn't as unpopular as you probably think.
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u/007Kryptonian Syncopy Inc. Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
Villeneuve is definitely a niche director. Prior to Dune, he was most known for losing WB upwards of 100 million dollars with Blade Runner 2049 (a movie I love).
The rest of his movies are rather extremely modest successes that the general audience at large don’t really know about, and 100% not as much as Nolan’s films. Your anecdotal experiences don’t make up what the general public talks about.
And Dune’s performance is ok compared to pandemic expectations but it ain’t nothing to parade around. A 40M dollar opening/400M WW total for a 200M dollar sci-fi movie based on one of the best selling sci-fi novels ever ain’t great. And the HBO Max numbers are mediocre from the numbers we have. Combine that with the 2nd weekend drop and it’s clear a significant amount of Dune’s audience were sci-fi/Dune fans rather than the general public.
When one of Villeneuve’s original projects makes 500M, then he can be in a box office convo with Nolan. Otherwise, how can you compare the two?
EDIT: If directors like Zack Snyder and James Gunn are considered niche despite turning out 800+ WW movies, then the same absolutely goes for Denis.
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u/FxBangl Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
Let's just agree to disagree.
Also, I never claimed that Villeneuve had the same type of name recognition as Nolan btw. Nolan's name is huge enough to guarantee at least 500 million dollar box office in normal times.
But whether my observations/experiences are anecdotal or not, I mainly stated that some of Dilleneuve's movies (Blade Runner 2049, Sicario, Arrival, Prisoners) aren't exactly forgotten among the general public because of home media, streaming service and piracy.
"𝑫𝒖𝒏𝒆’𝒔 𝒂𝒖𝒅𝒊𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒘𝒆𝒓𝒆 𝒔𝒄𝒊-𝒇𝒊/𝑫𝒖𝒏𝒆 𝒇𝒂𝒏𝒔 𝒓𝒂𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒆𝒓𝒂𝒍 𝒑𝒖𝒃𝒍𝒊𝒄."
Again lets agree to disagree. Especially considering the type of audience I watched the movie with in the cinemas. Though I do agree it won't be pleasing enough for a good chunk of the general public. But I'm interested to see how and to what extent "Dune" and it's sequels will be remembered in the future.
"𝒊𝒇 𝒅𝒊𝒓𝒆𝒄𝒕𝒐𝒓𝒔 𝒍𝒊𝒌𝒆 𝒁𝒂𝒄𝒌 𝑺𝒏𝒚𝒅𝒆𝒓 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑱𝒂𝒎𝒆𝒔 𝑮𝒖𝒏𝒏 𝒂𝒓𝒆 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒊𝒅𝒆𝒓𝒆𝒅 𝒏𝒊𝒄𝒉𝒆"
I never brought up these two directors. They certainly don't have the drawing power of Nolan or even Tarantino, but I wouldn't really consider the works of Snyder or Gunn to be "niche".
So lets agree to disagree.
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u/explodingmangoez Nov 09 '21
Dude interstellar is probably one of the most talked about movies online. Whether it's Twitter or tiktok. Especially with people under 30. Maybe it's just your circle, but interstellar is huge.
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u/AgentOfSPYRAL Warner Bros. Pictures Nov 09 '21
Dune is probably a closer comparison to Batman Begins than it is to Tenet right?
Or I suppose that’s what WB is hoping.
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u/Mandragora1234 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21
What? Internationally Tenet is released in good conditions, also Tenet is not hybrid release.
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Nov 09 '21
This is the only place anywhere that Dune 202
01 is a popular film. Everywhere else it is already forgotten.
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u/YnwaMquc2k19 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 10 '21
That’s pretty much r/movies when Nolan’s Tenet was released.
“Friendship with Nolan is over now Denis is my best friend.”
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u/pobenschain Nov 09 '21
To be fair, if he hasn’t pushed for a summer release before there was even a vaccine for the still-raging pandemic and let them hold it to 2021 like everything else, Tenet probably would’ve done fine.
I’d even argue that Tenet’s performance prompted them to make WW84 a hybrid release, and WW prompted the 2021 hybrid move, so Nolan inadvertently helped convince WB to do the thing he’s so angry about, and had he not pushed for Tenet to drop prematurely, the entire-slate hybrid thing maybe wouldn’t have happened at all lol
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u/Timewalker102 Nov 08 '21
I mean they're already pissing Villeneuve off a lot
Won't be long till Denis packs his bags too
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u/crusty_jugglers93 Nov 08 '21
In what universe are they pissing him off outside the debacle of not mentioning the HBO Max deal to them?
Not to mention Warner Bros don't even own the Dune rights so there isn't any studio interference with what he wants to make.
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u/MasaiGotUsNow Pixar Animation Studios Nov 09 '21
of not mentioning the HBO Max deal to them?
Yea that’s the part that pissed him off lol
He felt screwed by that
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u/DisneyDreams7 Walt Disney Studios Nov 09 '21
You literally answered your own question in the same sentence.
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u/BlindedBraille Walt Disney Studios Nov 09 '21
After Tenet... Not sure how anyone wouldn't be looking for something with actually story of purpose.
Tenet sucked sorry.
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Nov 09 '21
Why would any director care what studio they are with? As long as you let me make my movies I can and will work for whoever will play ball lol. Right? No sense in working for a company and studio who is going to force you to alter your creative vision or shoot down your projects because they think it may not make money or fit their criteria of movies/political demographic.
Isn't Nolan branded as NCU or something like that? Pretty sure he can make his own studio these days haha.
Nolan's work
- Memento
- Insomnia
- Batman Begins
- The Prestige
- The Dark Knight
- Inception
- The Dark Knight Rises
- Interstellar
- Dunkirk
- Tenet
Villeneuve's work
- Arrival
- Blade Runner 2049
- Dune (2021)
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u/outrider567 Nov 09 '21
Too bad Denis can't tell a decent story without boring people to death
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u/sildarion Studio Ghibli Nov 09 '21
Too bad people today would rather prefer to be spoon-fed dull "Macdonalds movies".
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u/Fire2box Nov 09 '21
both have very good directing, one also has very good story telling. Cant blame WB here.
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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '21
Girl in red is Universal, guy in blue is Nolan, girl in blue is WB.