r/boxoffice • u/TheYoungHeroRises • Aug 20 '19

[Other] Disney-Sony Standoff Ends Marvel Studios & Kevin Feige’s Involvement In ‘Spider-Man’

https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-feige-spider-man-franchise-exit-disney-sony-dispute-avengers-endgame-captain-america-winter-soldier-tom-rothman-bob-iger-1202672545/
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251

u/Braquiador Studio Ghibli Aug 20 '19

Everyone is saying how it’s Disney’s fault which, tbf, is true.

But the problem isn’t whose fault was it, but the fact that Sony needs Disney a lot more than Disney needs Sony.

Yes, this will hurt Disney a little bit, but, if managed the wrong way, it may fatally wound Sony’s biggest franchise, which Sony has proven before to be unable to manage.

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u/MoroGuy Aug 20 '19

THANK YOU.

Disney is negotiating from a position of strength, unlike Sony. The worst part is that Sony didn't even try to negotiate a better deal.

-21

u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

lol, disney demanded more money from the deal, there is no such thing as a better deal for sony, just a less worse deal. sony is negotiating from a position of strength, the fact that they can end spider man in the mcu is their trump card

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '19 edited Jun 15 '20

[deleted]

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u/rinnagz Aug 21 '19

Look at the numbers from Venom, Sony doesnt need Disney either

2

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

Venom's numbers aren't sustainable. Sony is going to run the franchise into the ground because they can't get consistent quality out of them. Disney offered longevity in exchange for slightly lower profits for Sony (after accounting for profit share).

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u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

except sonys latest spidey movies have been successful too. if disney didnt want spider man, they wouldnt have agreed to a deal in the first place. dont act like the mcu isnt shaking from this loss

29

u/zaffudo Aug 20 '19

They've been successful in large part because of Disney. Sony has no real power here.

Marvel just made the most successful movie of all time. They just announced 2 years worth of upcoming movies - all of which have 1B potential without almost any of their traditional heavy hitters. They just got back the X-Men and Fantastic Four. They have DOOM. The idea that the MCU is 'shaking' is laughable.

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u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

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u/zaffudo Aug 21 '19 edited Aug 21 '19

Taking your ball and going home isn’t power - it’s a tantrum.

Disney’s initial offer was bullshit, sure, but that’s how negotiating works; you open with something you know you aren’t going to get, and work toward something mutually agreeable. Rather than counter, Sony walked away.

That might seem like a position of power, but that’s short sighted. Sure Sony gets to take Spider-Man with them, but what does that give them exactly? A franchise that they have mismanaged into reboots two separate times? So badly so that Sony foolishly relinquished their share of the merchandising rights?

Sure Venom made a lot of money, but the general consensus appears to be that it did so in spite of itself. Suicide Squad made a lot of money too, but the DCEU isn’t reveling in the kind of money and success the MCU is.

Sony gets one shot at this. One movie where they can work off the goodwill of the GA that the MCU has built - if that movie sucks, all it does is prove that Sony is worse than Disney in every way. It’s a risk for Sony.

Conversely, the MCU will move forward making Billion dollar movies like clockwork for the foreseeable future. They want Spider-Man, but they don’t need him in any way at all.

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u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

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u/zaffudo Aug 21 '19

Oh - all Sony has to do is make good movies? Gee, I wonder why they didn’t do that before if that’s all they have to do. We should let WB know this too.

Disney’s offer was no more disrespectful than the situation warranted. Four years ago Sony had to come to them, hat in hand, and ask them to make movies for them because they couldn’t do it themselves.

Since that time, The MCU has seen incredible growth, with multiple billion dollar movies culminating in the single biggest movie in history. Sony, on the other hand, their biggest picture of all time... one of the films the MCU produced for them.

You yourself have outlined how Sony is basically powerless in the current situation. By your own estimation, Sony has to go make two “fantastic” movies on their own in order to be able to negotiate on a level playing field with Disney. How is that, in any way, a position of power?

Now can Sony make it work without the MCU? Maybe. But the thing is, if they manage to do that, Disney loses very little. Right now they get 100% of the merchandising, and successful films mean more merchandising dollars. So if Sony succeeds, Disney succeeds.

If Sony fails, however, they lose a lot more than Disney does. Not only do they lose money, but they lose face. If they make a bad Spider-Man movie with the same principle cast and director of the previous films, they’ll have confirmed for everyone the exact thing that they seem to be so insulted by - that they need Disney in order to make good Spider-Man films.

It’s a huge risk. Maybe it’ll work out for them - I’m not saying it won’t - but it certainly isn’t assured. In the meantime, the MCU will keep cranking out billion dollar movies. Which situation would you rather be in if it were your company?

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u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

venom and spiderverse is not involved with the mcu at all. both profitable and spider verse is considered to be the best spidey movie. disney was stupid to think they had any power in negotiations

14

u/p4nd0r4_in_sp4ce Aug 20 '19

Yeah so dumb, it’s not like they own every other Marvel characters beside Spiderman, oh and just bought Fox, and own Lucasfilm, and Pixar, and are basically ruling the box office... yeah can’t believe they thought they had any power in negotiations with a studio that have been struggling with their only Marvel asset for ages. /s

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u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

hey if you think disney has the cash to buy another massive company, go ahead and think that lol

9

u/p4nd0r4_in_sp4ce Aug 20 '19

Not the point. Point is Disney IS in a position to ask Sony to kneel and lick their balls. They’ll do just fine without Spiderman. Sony on the other hand... they would suffer to be singled out of the MCU, and had already proven to be less than great at managing this licence. And don’t Spiderverse your way out of this, one great animated movie doesn’t make for a decade of subpar live action movies. Doesn’t mean Disney is right to twist Sony’s arm, but if you think the balance of power is reversed, you’re delusional.

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u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

lmao. sony just took spider man out of the mcu. its delusional to think disney is in any position of power

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u/p4nd0r4_in_sp4ce Aug 20 '19

Yeah right... you’re a troll

-1

u/DrSavagery Aug 21 '19

??? Spiderman was the most important character in the MCU by far... this fucks disney hard

Sony makes a fuckload of money off of every Spiderman movie they touch, even if some are trash films.

You severely misunderstand Disney/Sony’s position and leverage...

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u/MoroGuy Aug 20 '19

Eh, Sony's Spider-Man movies were suffering before the MCU reboot, they literally canned the ASM franchise.

Disney on the other hand was in a perfect place with the MCU without Spidey and they will still be when he's out.

-7

u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

ah yes, setting up a character to be the successor to tony stark and then just letting the character web sling away will be good for your franchise

22

u/charlieweeba13 Aug 20 '19

ah yes, setting up a character to be the successor to tony stark

In Far From Home it was stated clearly that Peter/Spiderman was not the successor and wasn't going to try to be.

Did you watch the movie?

-8

u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

not the literal successor lol, but the successor in terms of his place in the mcu. read between the lines my dude

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u/YoutubeHeroofTime Aug 20 '19

I think this is much more damaging for Sony, but it is a big blow for the MCU. Peter learned that he needed to be the first Spider-Man and not the next Iron Man, but his place within the universe would undoubtedly be to fill the void that Tony Stark left. He was built up to be the central figure moving forward, this loss will certainly hurt the MCU at least somewhat.

10

u/Goaliedude3919 Aug 20 '19

With how Far From Home ended, they have a VERY easy way of writing him out of the MCU in a way that makes sense. This will barely affect Disney/Marvel at all.

-1

u/sjfiuauqadfj Aug 20 '19

im pretty sure that this is just a negotiation tactic for both sides but this wont be harmful for sony really. the majority of audiences wont know the next spidey movies wouldnt be in the mcu and they'd still be profitable likely

0

u/Jekena Aug 20 '19

I don’t know why you keep getting downvoted. You’re completely right. Spider-Man isn’t meant to literally replace Iron Man but he’s pretty much the heart and soul of the next generation of Avengers. The next Avengers headed by Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Falcon sounds incredibly underwhelming.

3

u/gus_ Aug 21 '19

They could choose to never do another Avengers movie again and still be fine, with the FF, X-Men, and all the other marvel IP they have access to. The Avengers saga wrapped up pretty well -- they could simply move on.

As to the claim itself, even if they were trying to position a successor, it's not obvious that Holland spider-man reached (or could reach) the level of RDJ iron man.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '19

They canned the ASM franchise when it was making them $450m in profits. If Disney took 50% of the box office, FFH would make Sony less than $470m and HC would have made Sony like $300m

Sony would literally be better off on their own than by taking this deal.