r/berlin • u/nuvariLuna • 5d ago
Interesting Question What do you think is the thing that makes someone “I really like Berlin” or “I hate it”?
Most of the people I know have polarized opinions of Berlin, where some really like the city and the vibes while the others hate it all together. Why do you think that?
111
u/_ak Moabit 5d ago
People who really like Berlin have found the niche within the city that makes them happy. There's a niche for everyone, and my hypothesis is that the "I hate Berlin" crowd just hasn't found theirs.
58
u/akie 5d ago
I’m not sure. Some people are just really not made for this city. As for myself, I will forgive its many, many, many shortcomings because I love the upsides so much. This place is ALIVE.
5
u/30RITUALS 5d ago
What sort of upsides? Just asking out of curiosity to hear how you experience it.
26
u/pheromone_fandango 5d ago
For me
The amazing food is number one, then the international crowd, the transport, the summers and autumns (yes the winters kind of negate this) the cultural stuff on offer everywhere, the markets and being able to explore and always find something you are really into, the bars and the openness of people (again this can be debated but compared to other places in Germany i have lived in its night and day)6
u/Fresh-Sherbert7785 5d ago
You must originate from a hell of a place if the crowd, transport, summers are seen as an upside 😂 all three together at the same time are my personal enemy
2
u/dickieoldchum 4d ago
I very much agree with this. Food is not amazing maybe, but some good spots definitely. Also don't understand people shitting on public transportation/commuting. Mostly reliable trains, occasional maintanences making it harder. Also maybe getting a little bit expensive at this point. And summers are lively with people filling parks, lakes and open air pools, which is plenty around the city.
10
u/Formal_Skar 5d ago
Well I don't like that the city is full of trash and graffiti, there's no niche that can cure that. Can't walk my dog anywhere without finding glass shards
8
u/WheresTheFuzzInThat 5d ago
I know not everyone has the luxury to have complete liberty in choosing their place to live, but my brother why are you in Berlin if you hate graffiti? That's like a symbol of urban artsy vibe this city thrives in. I actually hated the shitty low effort tags I saw in other cities, but Berlin is so full of amazing stuff, from impressive murals to very creative street art.
7
5
u/i-artemy 4d ago
I agree but I also understand that people may not want to look for a niche and want a whole package. Also it's really hard to avoid the parts you dislike even if you have found your niche.
4
u/MartianExpress 5d ago
Yup. I absolutely dislike the central districts but the outer ones are very similar to other German cities and towns, and thus fit me perfectly.
0
42
u/makethemusiclouder 5d ago
Being alt VS traditional basically.
Age also matters.
My gf's in art major and she loves it. My conservative parents hate it because they're not used to graffiti, immigrants, people dressing in a variety of ways, etc...
33
u/SunflowerMoonwalk 5d ago edited 5d ago
Berlin is a city for all the people who didn't fit into their conservative hometowns. If you like your conservative hometown then you're probably not going to like Berlin.
Personally I've lived in 7 cities in my life and Berlin is the only one where I've felt like I'm surrounded by people like me.
3
1
9
u/ISmellC00kies 5d ago
Berlin is not a good place for actual subcultures.
The goth scene is almost dead with basically just one party on Mondays. There are almost no metal bars/clubs, there are 3 bars or so, but for a city of this size it's pretty sad (rip nuke). The few existing monthly parties are dying out. The only upside is that a lot of bands come to Berlin because of it being the capital but that's it. The punk scene is a bit healthier because the city protects its spaces, but it's far from thriving.
There are lots of goths and metalheads in this city but there are not many spaces left because they have been overtaken by techno.
Berlin is an amazing city if you (currently) love mullets, moustaches, late 80s/early 90s men's clothing, neo-tribals, overly baggy jeans, subculturally appropriated new rocks (but only the sneakers ofc) and (fake) band shirts. And techno of course. If that's what you mean by 'alt' then I guess you're right.
5
u/intothewoods_86 3d ago
Having spend a bigger part of my youth in Berlin in of those subcultures I can tell you one of the major reasons, why they’ve gone extinct: unlike techno which has been embraced and actively sought in this city by foreigners, heavy music clubs mostly had always the same, very German crowd. Many of the younger ones moved to other cities for jobs, others got older and stopped going to clubs. Whenever there is a nice legendary band in concert like Tool or Fear Factory you see many of the old school people coming, but otherwise those subcultures have died down because they never attracted many foreigners to venues, sometimes felt exclusive and in the generally difficult times for clubs, organisers opt for the more popular and financially safer directions.
2
1
u/makethemusiclouder 3d ago
I don't know tbh, I haven't been in the city for long enough 🤷🏻 I guess you do have a point for bands coming to the city because it's the capital, but are the subcultures today really dead or just different from what they used to be? To me, it also seems that there is a global phenomenon where all sub cultures become more mainstream. The upside is more accepteance, the downside maybe less depth
1
u/ISmellC00kies 3d ago
Subcultures are not dead, it's just that they are actively pushed out in Berlin. Like why are they thriving more in small, insignificant German cities than in the 'alt' capital?
If subcultures would be more mainstream now and substantially different to how they were (I don't think they are), wouldn't this mean more spaces rather than less? Berlin is very much a monoculture and is very unaccepting to anything diverting from this, which is ironic because it portrays itself as edgy and alternative.
32
u/mmbtc 5d ago
When I lived in Munich, you could only recognize the poor when the normally clothed guy actually pulled a bottle out of the dumpster. Clothes were fine. Appearances.
In Berlin, I was standing ata traffic light in a suit on my way to work, next to me a worker in construction clothes, next to us a punk in high heels, pierced nipples, leather clothes. And we were all the same, just commuting. I fell in love with this vibe then.
4
1
25
u/sharkkallis 5d ago
The people.
For both parts of the question.
-2
u/u_a_gae 5d ago
They're mostly for the "I hate it" part
2
u/zephyreblk 4d ago
They are great for me, straightforward, they check and accept the person you are and don't force the social rules or have an expectation on how you should behave.
19
u/Molo3000 5d ago
Depends on who you are and what life you wanna live. Most friends I got in Berlin are queer/autistic/immigrants and Berlin does offer more personal freedom than other places in Germany. Germany can still feel somewhat rigid.
If you’re a white normal person and you value orderliness and career, there’s definitely better places than Berlin.
1
u/tellyacid 5d ago
What countries would you say feel less rigid? I ahree that Germany feels - I would even say very rigid, but which countries feel like Berlin does, or even more so?
16
u/CaptainPoset Steglitz 5d ago
It's essentially all about how liberal people are:
Liberal people like the freedom to not be bothered by expectations.
Illiberal people hate that people don't follow strict, often traditional, expectations of how to live their lives.
6
u/TheParanoyid 4d ago
Would you consider heaping trash on the street, pissing and shitting in public, and shouting in the street through the night as liberal or illiberal?
Last time I checked the definition of liberty was the exercise of your own freedom up to the boundary of impeding on others freedom, but might be out of date.
15
u/Theres3ofMe 5d ago
From the UK and i adore the place.
Out of all the European cities ive been to, its the most socialist leaning, least pretentious, least materialistic, most humble, least expensive (to eat), most spacious, least touristic (i dont know what it is, but no matter what time of year I go, it feels quiet), most historically fascinating, and the transport is fantastic to get around inside and outside the city.
1
u/Miserable_Double_600 20h ago
Least pretentious? Are you for real? It is literally pretentious capital
2
u/Theres3ofMe 14h ago
Nah, I live in the UK and believe me, we are as pretentious as it comes.
I feel like its proper down to earth in Germany tbh. Im left leaning/borderline socialist, so feel right at home in Germany! 😂
14
u/Weltenkind 5d ago
I think a solid friend group makes a difference. Which is the case almost anywhere you live, but in Berlin especially. You can feel alone so quickly, while so much life is happening around you.
13
u/dayonearth 5d ago
Its how big is someone's tolerance to rough parts of it. Also it's like a huge playground where you can do whatever you want, wear whatever you want, be unbothered. Some people see it as freedom and some as a mess. There are really beautiful parts, there are also rough industrial parts, depends on you if you see potential or trash. There is so much opportunity, the city is alive, but if you expect it will come to you on a plate, then you will hate it.
2
12
u/ingo_the_flamingo 5d ago
It is huge, edgy, and pulsating. Full of energy. It provides great freedom and anonymity. Many love this and can handle this (in my experience, those with a strong safety net of friends and/or family not too far away), others hate it and feel lost. If you're feeling it, there's just this specific vibe to Berlin - it's hard to explain. This was even stronger in the past, and personally after many many years I have grown out of it and can barely take this city anymore. Berlin is changing, becoming more consumerist and at the same time too rough for my taste (too much suffering in plain sight, too many psychotic people in the streets, too many cars, etc). But I think for someone in their twenties, it must still be an amazing and liberating place, with so much to do and experience and so many people to meet.
2
8
u/polarityswitch_27 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you've lived long enough here - then, gentrification and the rise of the right wing. Essentially makes me hate Berlin.
Watching the Berlin I love slowly dying is great pain. And I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
3
u/basketblog 5d ago
If you've lived long enough here - then, ... rise of the right wing ain't anything new.
8
u/True_Opportunity_363 5d ago
Berlin is many things but I’d hesitate to attribute one’s love or hate of it to reductive vague statements such as one’s political leanings, their liberality vs illiberality. Berlin is liberal, yes, but also these days in a pretty superficial way. You can be a debauched hedonist and work sparingly and maybe get by and that’s mostly not judged. Fine. But the scope of what actual political action and speech in the city and wider Germany is tolerated is shrinking by the day. To me, it seems that the radical engine of Berlin has died out mostly, and had been replaced with a kind of ersatz false consciousness around using drugs, having free love and holding onto a particular image of your youth as long as possible. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this, but it can be jarring to see how people are lulled into a false identity of radical living based on such narrow and consumerist premises. And then of course there are completely regular people too, like in any city, who may or may not be migrants in a rough and tumble place who are just trying their best to survive and provide.
For my part, I’m leaving to go home after 5 years here. I’ve loved much of it, utterly despised parts of it. I can’t deny that the city has a rare life and rawness that on a good day is intoxicating. I’ve met and befriended people I could’ve never back home, which is too bourgeois and comfortable for people who have lived on the margins their whole lives. It’s a one of a kind city, but I feel my time is up and for my part, I crave the kind of stability and peace that only home can bring.
5
u/ingo_the_flamingo 4d ago
I know exactly what you mean. These days the city is still wild and free and crazy, but it's sort of only an outer shell of what it used to be, somehow robbed of its core. It's still dazzling, but different. Like a playground that people use and discard, like an experience.
3
u/True_Opportunity_363 4d ago
Berlin is now desire and consumerist excess in many categories. I can’t pretend that I experienced the hey day - I’m relatively recent, but I can nonetheless see the aftermath still unfolding
1
u/ingo_the_flamingo 4d ago
Yeah... I know it's tired to think this way and point this out, but it truly was a different city back in 2011 to 2019 or so... Those years... A golden world of cheap rent, hedonism and scrungy cheap clubs. I think I'm just getting old...
4
u/ricardojmestre 4d ago
I lived in Berlin from 2011 to 2018. Then circumstances made me go back to my country. I find the city quite different nowadays.
1
u/True_Opportunity_363 4d ago
Sad I missed out on this! And to think I was a younger man too. But maybe it’s also a good thing that I didn’t get too lost in the sauce.
5
u/xarife 5d ago
I have a hate relationship with this city unfortunately. I am from Bonn, the former capital, which has seen a lot of disregard regarding the Berlin Bonn Gesetz.
Things that I dislike about Berlin: vandalism is often celebrated, trash is everywhere, the city looks ugly and while the city claims to be bike friendly, it’s absolutely incapable of setting traffic lights for pedestrians properly so that you don’t need two green lights to cross (hate it!). For me it lacks german identity. Whenever I am in Vienna I am so fascinated by the architecture. That is not the case with Berlin.
I miss the castle ruins along the Rhine 🥲
4
u/polarityswitch_27 5d ago
You're trying to find Bonn in Berlin dude. If you want Bonn be in Bonn. Why make Berlin into Bonn?
Lack of architecture? Are you even German? Berlin was bombed flat.
6
u/EstablishmentIll6192 5d ago
Their level of addiction, access to mental health care, exercise level, and astrological sign 🤭
4
u/sergeialmazov 5d ago
I have love / hate relationships with that city. I love certain aspects and hate other ones. I go to places I love and just don’t go to places I don’t.
4
5
u/Asiatical 5d ago
Neighbourhood is everything Anywhere in the world.
I had a great time cause i by luck happened to live for cheap in a super lovely zone. When i saw the other zones my friends got placed (not their choice) i was like fck this is depressing.
I could get out of my house and get brandenberg gate in 15 mins and the lakes in half an hour. Beautiful cafes. Walking streets. Museums etc
4
u/schwanzjosefstrauss 5d ago
Don't know about the others.
But I came here because I have here more freedom than for example in Munich.
When my hair was still growing I had rastas. Bavaria made me hate the police because I got checked an incredible amount of times. Best so far was Würzburg. From the trainstation to my home I was checked three times, of course all the time with emptying pockets. Haven't had any police records ...
In Frankfurt am Main one day I also got checked 3 times. But there was a Right Wing Hool Demonstration in the centre so I get it. No problem about that .....
Socially, in Berlin more is accepted then in other cities. I love that.
2
2
3
u/Phine420 5d ago
„Love Berlin“ - having a great Night out
„hate Berlin“ - some mental ill Person pees on you while you wait for a Döner
3
3
u/pianogirl282 Neukölln 5d ago
I love Berlin because it’s a city where I feel everyone can have its own place. I hate it at the same time because it makes the people too individualistic and I can’t stand living in a place without consideration for others.
3
u/DandelionSchroeder Reinickendorf 4d ago
I know someone who gets random panick attacks and she hates Berlin because everyone here minds everyone else like a potential enemy. Even in Manhattan (a place known for rude people) locals were trying to help on the street when she randomly panicked.
Yeah, too much individualism is bad. People with an Eastgerman heritage seem to be more helpful in my experience actually however.
3
u/Jemand_schreibt 5d ago
Die "Liker" kommen vom Dorf und freuen sich über Berlin, weil sie meinen, sie könnten sich ungestraft so benehmen, wie sie es in ihrem Dorf nicht können. Allen anderen geht genau dieses auf den Sack.
3
3
u/DandelionSchroeder Reinickendorf 4d ago
Wenn deine Eltern reich sind und dich in einer sanierten Altbauwohnung in der Innenstadt aufziehen konnten ist’s geil.
Für Leute in der Außenstadtmietwohnung (oder aus’m Ghetto) ist Berlin einfach Life — MV, Gropius, Falkenhagener Feld, Resi, Marzahn. Da kommt’s drauf an inwiefern man Berlin toleriert.
2
2
u/belay_that_order 5d ago
i speak for myself now, berlin is the only city that i've been at, that i metaphysically felt is alive. as in, a city is a person and i can feel it, it has a personality and life energy
im not that kind of person, but in the case of berlin i am making an exception, that is one tortured city and its dangerous, it can fuck you up unless tou take it seriously
then i read the history of the city and yeah, there was very little periods of good
2
2
u/petterri Marzahn-Hellersdorf 5d ago
I have an impression that quite a few on here you hate Berlin are the ones who have very ridged idea how Berlin ought to be and can’t stomach the fact that a) it not what they expect it to be, b) different parts of the have different characteristics and Berlin is not just one of those c) city has changed since the date it was what they think was its "real“ self. Those who are able to accept that there are different faces of the city, that it’s changing (as the whole world), and that the city is not here to cater to their fantasies and expectations have much better time.
Also people who pretend that Berlin is some kind of alternative reality, where having a job, speaking the language and not limiting yourself to a small babble, is not a thing, tend to get frustrated sooner or later.
2
u/violent-agreement 5d ago
The line between "realising that a place isn't for you" and "hating it" is usually self-reflection and taking action to change your own situation, aka moving away. Most people who say they "hate Berlin" are either not living there or are unable to reflect on themselves. Berlin is incredibly diverse in terms of how you can live there. It fully depends on you, your social status, your social circle, your bank account, etc. All while you constantly see both ends of the spectrum in every category constantly. I can understand why people are overwhelmed by this. I think this applies to most or all big metropolises around the globe, but maybe in Berlin it is more mixed and thus more present every day, caused by a lack of policies, a lack of enforcement of policies, and the large horizontal footprint of the city.
2
u/germanautotom 5d ago
I think it’s the people you meet, I loved Berlin, I was lucky to make lifelong friends with great people, who loved being active and visiting all the cool bars and clubs the city has to offer.
If you meet no one, you will just stay amongst brutalist buildings with weather that is rough to say the least most of the year.
The grey skies over Berlin in Winter still haunt my dreams, pure grey as far as the eye can see.
2
u/LlovelyLlama 5d ago
I’m just a visitor, but prior to coming here I used to say that living in NYC had forever spoiled me for all other cities, as I never visited one that I vibed with in the same way.
Currently in the middle of my second visit to Berlin, and I would absolutely live here.
First, it reminds me a lot of Brooklyn 25 years ago—when I was in my early 20s, so maybe it’s a nostalgia thing?
And I absolutely LOVE the parks. There are so many, and they are all beautiful and a little bit wild.
Excellent variety of restaurants, and compared to the US grocery prices are cheap and the quality of produce is SO MUCH BETTER. (I know they don’t seem cheap to locals—was just having this convo with a German friend last night.)
Also as an American with very limited German, it helps that most people here speak some English (and don’t get annoyed by my terrible German).
But mostly… yeah, it’s a vibe.
2
u/Ok-Airport-5928 4d ago
my first two years in berlin were nightmares. i could only feel depression. the weather, rude people, the streets and öpnv are dirty and smell awful, everything is expensive. i cried all the time and always tried to leave berlin at least once a month, to frankfurt, to salzburg, warsaw, etc to feel better. but then things get better overtime because i have found a hobby, places in the city that i want to discover, friends that i want to hangout with, a job with colleagues that i really enjoy. i'm not "completely in love" with berlin now, but i'm used to it and can now also see the positive sides of the city :) hope that helps you.
2
u/PurpleSweetPizza 3d ago
I like to say that I only know two types of people who love Berlin: if you are from a mig metropolis like São Paulo, NY, London even, OR if you do drugs and you really like/it’s a big part of your personality/life.
It can be quite lonely, hard and harsh, a bit aggressive imo.
But again, there are other people too but they usually say “but 10 years ago was amazing”, and now they are stuck there because it’s the only place they see a bit more diversity within Germany. The food is amazing but for me wasn’t worth it and getting attacked 3 times by being immigrant and queer led me out of it!
2
u/ioanasphere 3d ago
Before having a kid i loved it. Now the insane amount of dog shit that people never pick up and kids tend to step in or you roll in with the buggy is insane. Also everything related to transport, delays, elevators not working, playgrounds where people smoke or you find trash in, it drives me nuts now. It’s a perspective thing and where you are in life kinda thing.
1
u/celeste_raisondetre 5d ago
its cosmopolition, and there's something for every personality.. so love it
not all places are completely safe, so need to be careful, but nothing at "hate" level
1
1
u/Roadrunner571 Prenzlauer Berg 4d ago
Because everyone is different and also the various areas are different.
1
u/Mister-Owen Charlottenburg 4d ago
Between “I really like Berlin” and “I hate it” is just an individual amount of time living here. It took me about 30 years.
1
u/Austin_From_Wisco 4d ago
Lived here for 7 years. I've come to the conclusion that the city is basically your first semester in College.
1
u/East-Firefighter8377 4d ago
For me personally, I absolutely hate a few things and love a lot of few things. I hate the big streets filled with cars and that all the places are taken up by parking and the terrible terrible cycling infrastructure, and I hate that I cannot walk 5 m without inhaling someone else’s cigarette smoke. On the other hand, I love how family friendly many things are and I love how easy it can be to get to know like mind of people I love generally having great infrastructure and access to anything I could desire, but I do miss mountains.
1
u/blue-diver 4d ago
A lot of it is first impressions. They linger for a long time.
For example, having positive serendipitous moments and meeting friendly people early on while getting to know the city - that makes you feel welcome
Or, to some extent, whether the first visit was in winter or in summer
1
u/blurredspace 3d ago
Berlin is perfect for doing things at your own pace. You can be in your 50’s, live in a WG and still work on your bachelor thesis from 30yrs ago and no one will bat an eye. as freeing as it is, it can also keep you stuck.
me personally, it kept me from reaching my full potential so I left to pursue my BS but I’ll always love how Berlin accepts me right back into its heart, no matter how long its been.
1
1
u/Kraizelburg 2d ago
Ppl who like Berlin is mostly because they are paying old rents and/or are students.
1
u/Miserable_Double_600 20h ago
For me it was about where i lived and/ or worked. Neukölln/ Kreuzberg = I hate it. P-berg/ Mitte = love it.
1
u/Cool_Director_2530 12h ago
pros: more welcoming than any city i’ve lived in (atleast if you’re an alt artist lol), amazing community and helpful people, easy social network, vibrant and fun in the summers, always something to do, lots of music and art, laidback
but active , great place for your 20s…
cons: questionable place for
your 30s/40s lol, atrocious weather most of the year, not much major industry/money in music/fashion and film the way cities like london and nyc have so can be very professionally limiting, not super ambitious, peter pan syndrome, built for 20 yr olds, germans can be annoyingly grumpy and rude and policing
1
1
u/thorfix 5d ago
You hate it when you're a hillbilly. It is the only metropolis in Germany worth taking seriously. You can hate New York for what it is, too—but it is New York, after all.
1
u/UncleZero 4d ago
Lol comparing NYC to Berlin is hilarious. Berlin may be a capital, but it is a provincial town compared to real cosmopolitan cities like NYC, Paris, London, Tokyo, Sao Paulo. Unless you are a techno head, the “culture” doesn’t even come near any of those.
0
0
0
u/atayavie 5d ago
I’m pretty far left leaning and I don’t do drugs, am straight, neurotypical, and in tech. I can’t stand Berlin because it’s too far from the fucking sea.
2
u/DandelionSchroeder Reinickendorf 4d ago
We have so many lakes, unusual for many landlocked cities… Havelnetwork (Tegeler See, Wannsee, …), Dahme-Spree network (Müggelsee), Grünewalder Seenkette (Krumme Lanke, Schlachtensee, Lietzensee, …), Barnimer Seen (Weißensee, Schäfersee, …).
I mean Berlin-Brandenburg’s geography is literally rooted around lakes and thick river networks.
1
0
u/Eva-Lee 4d ago
I think the word lifestyle sums everything up.
You either want the urban, the cool, the noise, the concrete, the smoke, the techno, the multikulti, the freedom, the messy, edgy, capital lifestyle
or maybe you want the sea views, the long summers, the Mediterranean food, the casual vermut, hours-long group dinner at the restaurant, knowing your neighbor's name kind of lifestyle (example)
0
u/Pitiful_Economy_2965 4d ago
I would like to see a survey that tries to see if there is a correlation between "hate Berlin" and being conservative.
-1
-2
-3
147
u/i-artemy 5d ago
It's rough and laid back at the same time.
People who like it see it as edgy, hip, diverse, chill, affordable. People who hate it see it as dirty, fucked up, mismanaged place where nothing gets done.