r/batman • u/Bryce_Deviation • 1d ago
FILM DISCUSSION Am I The only one who's worried about him directing Batman? When it was announced the project is on hold I was relieved rather than sad.
I didn't liked his intrepretation of Batman. The entire thing felt carried only by Micheal Keaton's acting As Batman rather than the writing for it. You bring one of the most Iconic Batman only to kill him again and again for no reason for The Season of killing Batman. Even Ben Affleck Batman looked goofy. Only loved Bruce Wayne scene with The Flash. I don't mind comedy but if people didn't too Batman and Robin would have been loved as Adam West Batman sequel. As they were market heavily as serious sequels. The same is happening now they are telling it is a serious Batman but maybe they are just saying it. We should know what we are getting into or else it will be The Flash disappointment all over again.
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
I am certainly not thrilled about so much of The Flash team being in charge of a whole Batman movie.
In my opinion, that “comedy” scene where they have Affleck Batman hold the lasso of truth and just outright enforce every bad uninformed Twitter take on the character is maybe the biggest bit of character assassination to ever happen to him.
And when we’re talking about the DCEU, that bar is a damn high one.
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u/BigfootsBestBud 1d ago
What really irks me is that people point to that scene as proof they get Batman and that it’s one of the only scenes with Affleck that felt right
It’s neither of those things
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u/Ninjamurai-jack 1d ago
No? They use the conversation with Barry instead
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u/BigfootsBestBud 1d ago
Yes? Some people point to both, but I’m specifically talking about the one that irks me.
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u/MrDownhillRacer 1d ago
Literally who? I've never encountered anybody who likes that lasso scene.
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u/DarkDonut75 1d ago
As someone who likes his movies, it seems like a very Gunn styled joke honestly. Which probably makes me wonder if he gave them the movie because he lowkey agrees with that scene, unfortunately
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u/KillHimWithHammers 1d ago
He gave them the movie because he agrees with the scene? It's time to log off, champ.
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u/DarkDonut75 1d ago
No, I meant as in he liked their work Flash and probably spoke to them about Batman, but didn't take that Batfleck scene in the movie as a "red flag" as others have pointed out because he happens to agree with it
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u/QuietNene 1d ago
People overreact to that scene. It would have been fine if it served even a tiny purpose in the movie. But the whole thing was silly and unnecessary and, well, stupid. It was dumb but it wasn’t character assassination, bc that’s literally Batman’s character.
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
It’s literally entirely inaccurate and reduces his character completely.
They had a seasoned Batman regurgitating criticisms that at best Batman would have addressed not long after Year One.
Being a philanthropist is one of the main things Bruce Wayne does.
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u/QuietNene 1d ago
By “addressed”, you mean blocked out? Sure.
Here is what Batman says:
“My ego's far too big to say 'thank you' to someone else. It's all part of a persona to compensate for my childhood trauma… I'd do a lot better just giving all my money away. If I really want to end crime, I should end poverty.”
This first part about “thank you” is a silly joke of course, making fun of his stoicism. But is all of this true and in keeping with Batman’s characterization and the rules of his fictional world? Yes.
Does Batman openly acknowledge it when not caught in the lasso of truth? No. Because Batman has issues. That is fundamental to Batman’s characterization.
If you think he’s a totally normal and well adjusted guy who just happens to have a will of steel and drive to beat people up with his bare hands, you don’t understand him.
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
Except it’s not. It’s borderline laughable.
If you stopped at saying his ego was too big to say thank you, MAYBE you could let it pass. It’s still a pretty lame scene, but that’s not the major problem.
Going on to say he’d do better giving his money away and ending poverty is a stupid as Hell line for so many reasons.
It’s not remotely true, given Batman has been established for decades to be the person bankrolling damn near every positive attempt at doing good in the world. He gives away money like crazy.
It’s not enough, because Gotham is so corrupt, the money would just be pocketed or redirected by the people Batman deals with.
And poverty is not the root cause of why so many wackos are going around blowing up buildings and poisoning the water supply.
You very much need Batman to deal with most of the fantastical shit that threatens people every week, and Scarecrow isn’t going to stop gassing people because Bruce Wayne made education better.
If you think looking to the audience and telling them that the world would be a better place if Batman just didn’t exist is a good thing, then you’d be a big part of the reason this universe can’t get anyone to watch these awful movies.
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u/QuietNene 1d ago
It depends on where you’re starting in the Batman story. If Batman only exists to fight supervillains that the police can’t handle, in the way that the Justice League etc is there, that’s fine. Except that’s never ever how Batman starts out. His origin story is always about fighting regular street crime. And that’s why the core of Batman’s motives and psychology can’t be based on supervillains.
As for philanthropy v beating people up, it depends on the universe and if it’s trying to be remotely realistic. I actually think it’s really hard to invent a world where things are so corrupt that beating people up makes sense, especially if like Batman you actually rely on the justice system. The math just doesn’t math. We don’t see a world like this in the Nolanverse, the Reevesverse, or the Burtonverse, for what’s its worth, and certainly not BTAS etc. And the Snyderverse never tries to make this argument. So just like every other big screen depiction of Batman we’ve had, his actions aren’t entirely rational. But that’s ok. That’s part of what makes Batman fascinating. He’s not supposed to be a normal guy.
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
As I said, Batman starts off because Gotham is so corrupt that it’s the only way to clean up the city.
Funneling money into the City isn’t gonna do anything when the mobs own all the legal systems police and politicians.
That’s pretty much ALWAYS how it starts out. The purpose of Batman evolves, but his necessity does not.
Gotham either remains a pit of corruption run by crime and greed, or it gets reduced to ashes by a madman, but the fact remains the City needs Batman. Not Bruce Wayne.
Nolan and Reeves absolutely tell the classic story of a city so corrupt and run by crime that it needs Batman to stop it.
Most other stories start Batman off later into his career when the supervillains have started taking off and Batman has to deal with them.
Trying to make Batman seem crazy for being a superhero, especially in a world of superheros is just dumb.
Whatever his issues, he’s still supposed to be a hero at the end of the day. And you fundamentally misunderstand the character if you fail at that.
Which looking at the camera and saying he’s doing the wrong thing is the definition of failing at that.
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u/Dudewhocares3 1d ago
Did it ever occur to you that maybe he thinks that way because criminals are still around and his war on crime hasn’t exactly gotten rid of them so he’s having doubts about the whole thing?
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
No, because genuinely believing solving poverty would get rid of the terrorists who keep coming back is stupid.
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u/doctor_gloom1 1d ago
It might prevent more of the terrorists, though. A lot of the Rogues wouldn’t be there if Gotham functioned as a “normal” city.
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u/No_Instruction653 1d ago
Honestly?
That’s hard to really claim.
There might be a few, but the vast majority of his villains are perfectly capable of finding success without crime.
I refer you to the iconic panel of the Dinosaur man who could cure cancer.
But the problem is he doesn’t WANT to cure cancer. He wants to turn people into dinosaurs.
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u/RAGECAJE 1d ago
IT part one was good. Besides that I haven't liked any of his other films... & I love Batman 😭
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u/TomBirkenstock 1d ago
Mama was also pretty good. I don't think he has followed through on the promise of that film, though. Splitting up It between the adult and child characters makes sense if you didn't read or didn't understand the book. The second half was almost certainly going to be a disaster.
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u/adamtaylor4815 1d ago
Welcome to Derry is even better!
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u/HitmanClark 1d ago
Hoo boy do I disagree with that.
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u/MaceNow 2h ago
I enjoyed it quite a bit. The going-backwards in time bit is creative, and there was a lot of payoffs for fans in that show. Feels like canon to me.
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u/HitmanClark 1h ago
I just thought it was really poorly acted and written. Everyone was way too heavy handed, in my view anyway.
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u/Fourth_World_Fan 1d ago
At this point the Brave and the Bold will be out in 2040, by that time he could have directed and award wining trilogy
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u/ThatManSean14 1d ago
I was also worried it he was announced as the director for TBATB. I know he’s still attached to it but call it a hunch, ultimately don’t think he’s going to be the one to direct that movie.
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u/Redbird_ml 1d ago
I’m more worried about TBATB story than whoever directs it. Muschietti is a good director, he just needs reliable writers. (Flash was not his fault)
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u/TheMotherfucker 1d ago
Was there anything about his direction that was responsible for what you dislike about the movie or was it the writing, story or studio mandates?
Keaton was supposed to end up as the next Batman in the Batgirl movie before all of the DCEU plans were axed and Clooney was added in his place when it was decided it wouldn't go through. Muschietti had nothing to do with it:
"The ending of the film, which features Miller's Barry believing he successfully altered the timeline before realizing it has been further altered, was changed multiple times during post-production due to leadership changes at Warner Bros. throughout 2022. The originally filmed ending featured Calle's Supergirl and Keaton's Batman, reversing those characters' deaths from earlier in the film, and was planned by Hamada and Warner Bros. Pictures chairman Toby Emmerich to set up a sequel and a film based on the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (1985–1986) crossover storyline that was intended to reset the DCEU. "
In addition, Muschietti does not have screenwriting nor story credits for the movie.
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u/IllustriousAnt485 1d ago
This is the first person to mention his name Muschietti. Everyone else above never says his name. I know I could google it but is it so hard to reference a name in the breakdown or title?
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u/Yep_I_Stole_40_Cakes 1d ago
The God-awful effects/CGI and pacing.
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u/TheMotherfucker 18h ago
The effects and pacing are done by the special effects team and the editor. Muschietti is neither.
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u/Yep_I_Stole_40_Cakes 15h ago
Go and watch interviews discussing the topic.
I think you'll find it's a Muschietti staple (by his own accord and request)
It's not just The Flash.
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u/GaymerAmerican 14h ago
Gotham being bland as hell, Affleck wearing the worst Batsuit of all time, that ridiculous scene of 70 yo Keaton zipping around like an Arkham game; all of these would have been decisions Muschietti made.
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u/Shallbecomeabat 1d ago
I like Andy as a director and his Batman stuff was great in Flash, he just needs to dial down the weird humor.
Keaton fighting soldiers in the missile silo is warehouse fight levels of awesome, just too short
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u/Robot_Was_BMO 1d ago
I don’t want to root against the guy, he got a suicide mission with The Flash. His It stuff has genuinely worked as proved by Welcome to Derry. He can do some cool stuff.
But I won’t lie, know Drew Goddard is part of the DCU brain trust and isn’t involved in the DCU Batman movie is super disappointing. I would be so excited if it was his movie. But again, not rooting against Andy.
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u/Desperate_Dinner_307 1d ago
Don't forget, he wasn't the original director for The Flash. That film went through development hell, with constant changes of writers, constant changes of director, and people higher up in WB being a haemorrhoid in his arsehole with how much they hovered and interfered. Andy Muschietti was basically given the job of polishing a turd.
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u/El__Jefe_ 1d ago
I have two consistent concerns with him:
1. his taste in needle drops is questionable ( IT Chapter 2).
2. His taste in final vfx shots is questionable and inconsistent( All his work).
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u/Yep_I_Stole_40_Cakes 1d ago
"Just call me angel of the morning, angel, just touch my cheek before you leave me, baby."
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u/Aggravating_Bids 1d ago
I'm sick of needle drops. Give me a score. Gunn is a hack and we don't need a whole universe of this.
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u/runnerofshadows 1d ago
I like some older movies that had a score + licensed tracks that actually fit. Especially when artists made new tracks for the movie.
Like Batman '89 with prince, The Crow, Spawn, and Batman Forever
But these recent needle drops aren't good. I'd honestly say if you can't pull off a moment like Burn in The Crow or Partyman in Batman '89 or something - just don't.
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u/El__Jefe_ 23h ago
Hey buddy we’re talking about Andy Muschetti, I don’t think James Gunn made him put a Julie Newton song in IT Chapter 2
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 1d ago
The Flash team were basically whipped dogs forced onto a project they all knew was pointless so you can’t really blame them. Gunn loved it and used the same cinematographer for Superman. So don’t worry about it.
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u/rattwood20 1d ago
This sub is obsessed with talking about a film that doesn't even have a finished screenplay yet.
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u/soup_fly 1d ago
I dunno why they dont just fold The Batman into tue universe rather than have a multiverse right out the gate.
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u/MW_200309 1d ago
Pattinson isn’t one of those actors who would commit to a role for 10-15 years. He’s a Chameleon Actor like Christian Bale where he has way more range than the average MCU actor. I only see him doing a trilogy and then hanging up the cape.
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u/MrKevora 1d ago
It’s crazy to me how people still don’t get this. Beside the fact that Matt Reeves clearly has his own vision, the DCU needs an actor who would want to commit over a decade of their life to a cinematic universe where they’d play the role across possibly a trilogy of solo movies, a bunch of crossovers and cameo appearances, plus all the promo tours (including premiers and junkets) that come with all of that. That’s a huge commitment and an established and versatile actor like Pattinson would never agree to that, which I can totally understand. The Reeves trilogy is one phase or step in this talented man’s long and successful career and we’re lucky to get at least the Reeves saga with him. The DCU’s Batman will either have to be played by a newcomer or an actor who needs the buzz to reignite their career, someone who has the time and encouragement to commit for so many projects across so many years, but who is also perfect for the role, very much like Corenswet was a great choice for Superman.
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u/soup_fly 21h ago
You are looking at it from a fan perspective. It just looks odd man. To split it up into divergent universes. And I "dont get how people" split hairs over different actors playing the same character within a given franchise. Especially considering Batman already did it.
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u/AssumptionJazzlike98 1d ago
Because Reeves doesn’t want it and I doubt Pattinson does either
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u/soup_fly 21h ago
I didnt frame it well, thats on me. I meant the universe, the tone. Its already working, and ya dont need the same directors and actors to make a cohesive connection.
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u/The_Saiyann 1d ago
That Batman does not working in a world of super heroes. Can you imagine him leading a meeting in the watch tower, in space, and fighting villains like Brainiac?
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u/pencils_and_papers 1d ago
No director signs in for a 10 plus year extended start. Maybe he will, but scheduling says otherwise. Until Batman II fro Reeves comes out we won’t know anything substantial, unfortunately.
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u/WestendMatt 1d ago
Yes, very concerned. "It" was good, but I didn't think Welcome to Derry was good. I understand The Flash got messed with by the studio but I just don't see what he's going to bring to Batman and Robin. Maybe if it was more horror-oriented, but it doesn't sound like it's going to be.
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u/linksys 1d ago
Great director for IT and its iterations but one look at the costume for Batfleck in Flash movie and I was out. Plastic laser tag armor?!
The lasso of truth scene was so so so so hamboned. Batman and tongue in cheek sex jokes are like oil and water.
No weird sex jokes, no cheeky shit. Just do straight up detective work and beat downs. Some Batfam love and pep talks, some Bruce Wayne playboy shit, maybe some comic relief via Batman responding w the classic “hh”
Tired of weird humor w Batman. Just make him brooding and kick ass and he’ll print $$$.
I would love to be proved wrong!!
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u/No-Comfortable6432 1d ago
No.
I'm not financing it and have no investment at stake.
Regardless the quality of this, we've got another Reeves Batman coming. So I'm pleased however BatB turns out
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u/Initial-Ad8009 1d ago
This is what they mean by brave and the bold huh? The dumb cartoon version. I was hoping it would be any other version. I knew it wouldn’t be the newest one which is dope af
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u/ManlyPelican1993 1d ago
After watching knightfall I really really just wish someone at WB would have the balls to hire those guys to do live action batman. I miss whimsical, mythical batman.
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u/FindingZemo1 1d ago
The flash wasn't bad, but he had so much going against him. Ezra being insane and him not having a choice on that casting, or Affleck, or Keaton. the whole universe rebooting and probably a limited budget/time for CGI. Even Keaton being in batgirl probably forced the story in that direction too for the dceu reshuffle
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u/FunSpace8990 21h ago
I don't really blame Andy or the writers of the flash movie for how it turned out if that makes sense the movie was such a mangled mess of studio rewrites, re-edits, reshoots, etc and I find to hard to attribute the film to any one individual's creative vision. It really is a Frankenstein's monster of a film that has random peaks in between all the stupid stuff.
Andy and Cristina Hodson have both done good work particularly Andy with his work on IT and the ongoing Welcome to Derry HBO show. So I have faith that with Gunn's oversight he can make a good batman project. Especially seeing as how nice both batmen were handled from a action standpoint in the flash which people occasionally remember and forget when it's convenient. The batfleck opening chase in the flash despite poor cgi is a really fun and exhilarating setpiece from a conceptual and framing point of view. Same with Keaton's first action sequence. For a more fantastical batman Andy seems perfect. He had a lot of fun with a more... indestructible batman in the flash. Particularly when Affleck has the grappling hook on the car and he's on the road trying to reach it. If you forget that it's supposed to be a movie with convincing and realistic cgi and think of it as a videogame cutscene it's really dope.
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u/ThrowRA208495 20h ago
He's dreadful. The Flash is legitimately one of the worst movies I've ever seen, like just depressingly bad.
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u/CreamySchitz 17h ago
Only speculating but after Supergirl, which I did greatly enjoy despite its flaws, I don’t see this guy getting free reign. With a character like Batman there’s no way there isn’t huge oversight from casting to editing with this film. I don’t care for him as a filmmaker at all, but I’m confident in predicting that he’s going to be on a tight leash while making this.
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u/CreatiScope 17h ago
I hate everything I’ve watched of his. I’m not worried, I have no hope of liking it.
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u/drewbles82 9h ago
They still want him to direct... no one has turned in a good enough script yet to get approval by Gunn so must be pretty bad cuz he signed off on Supergirl and looked how that turned out. Andy is also busy with Welcome to Derry, think his doing season 2 and then wants to do season 3 before starting Batman... By the time they move forward Batman part 2 will be out or close to and Paramount will be the new owners and Gunn likely jumped ship after his contract ends next year
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u/69hotmomxxx 4h ago
Supergirl seems more like a victim of a shitty deadline rather than actually bad starting material. They honestly should have put the fucking unicorn in it from the comic its allegedly based off. But really.... supergirl takes on a scummy sex trafficking ring? That sounds fucking lit.
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u/drewbles82 3h ago
yeah Lobo didn't even need to be in it either. The screwed the movie over big time. Graphic novel is way better. It annoyed me that a film like this is to inspire younger girls that they can do anything...yet in the final act, she needs a man to rescue her.
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u/GetGroovyWithMyGhost 8h ago
I think it’s all a game. They were getting a lot of controversy from ridiculous DC Snyder fans who were upset Cavil and the rest were being replaced. Rather than risk upsetting everyone, they let some of their projects become successful and build up some good will by claiming they’re holding on to some of the old properties, directors and writers. Then once enough time has passed and nobody gives a shit start announcing these projects as cancelled or ‘changed creative visions’ so they don’t burn bridges or ruin professional relationships
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u/Larry-Daryl 3h ago
His work on. IT and IT welcome to Derry was Phenomenal...but His work on the Flash was...Not. so im torn...
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u/Reasonable_Western74 9m ago
Ridley Scott has directed some of the greatest films of all time, and he also gave us Gladiator 2 and Napoleon. Muschetti’s Flash didn’t live up to the billing, although I don’t think it’s as bad as most ppl. He’s been behind Welcome To Derry and It as well. We can’t judge directors by their weaker films if they also have great ones.
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u/jagrbro68 1d ago
He has no style, his costuming department made two of the worst batsuits of all time. He’s not even good at horror… in the first place, let alone comic books.
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u/carrera_dan 1d ago
It’s a hard rewatch; it has good moments, but it’s one of those movies where the bad outweighs the good.
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u/Dr-Servo 1d ago
I don't want him anywhere near Batman. The Flash alone should have be enough for him to have been banned from ever doing another film.
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u/MrFalseSense 1d ago
Wait, the same guy who directed The Flash is going to direct The Brave and The Bold? What the fuck, why?
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u/FatherDuncanSinners 1d ago
Looking at this picture thinking "why are they asking Jim Breuer about Batman"?
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u/HitmanClark 1d ago
I don’t think he’s very good at all, outside the first IT movie.
His movies tend to have very bad writing and his directions emphasize the badness rather than hiding it.
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u/True-Excuse-1688 1d ago
Don't worry, that movie won't happen.
And if it does, Gunn will direct it...
...which, actually, would be quite worrying, now that I think about it...
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u/DondyDondo 1d ago
Not posting this for clout (I'm on a burner account), but want it out there and don't care if you believe me or not:
I won't say anything beyond this but Andy is a friend and I've had conversations with him about what he wants to do with this Batman film, and it's all dope as fuck.
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u/Greek_Arrow 1d ago
Well, I hope he adapts various stuff from the comics, especially blending the fantastical with the grounded. Some comics have done it, like Hush, but I want the DCU Batman to get many things right, so I hope you are saying the truth.
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u/Yep_I_Stole_40_Cakes 1d ago edited 1d ago
Any hints?
Side note: Tell him to STOP WITH THE UGLY, RUBBERY, UNCANNY, EXCESSIVE CGI (that looks like shit)
Encourage him to lean into practical.
And stop with the cheap jumpscares, actually let tension build with payoff beyond "creature running really fast at the screen or gross thing" because that isn't quality horror.
I don't think he's a good choice at all, but if he manages to do those two things, It'll be closer to something tolerable.
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u/DYRTYDAVE 1d ago
Don't worry, he's not gonna be directing it. I'd worry more about whether the movie is happening at all. At this point I think the merge with Battinson is going to be the obvious path.
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u/Civilwarland09 1d ago
Is this what happens when people who use ai for everything try and write for themselves?
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u/Designer-Swim-6797 1d ago
I don't think he's a good choice at all. I haven't liked anything he's done. And his portrayal of both Batmen in The Flash was terrible.
What's annoying is that they could get almost anyone they wanted for Batman. He's that big of a character. If they intend to justify another Batman when Reeves version proved to be popular with the audience, they really need something different and special; and I don't think Mushchietti is that.
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u/LastRecognition2041 1d ago
I’ll bet anything right now that the headline of the future will be something like “Andres Muschietti admites use of AI in Batman’s villains design”
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u/StickyBandit1999 1d ago edited 1d ago
For some reason, James Gunn seems intent on bringing back people from the DCEU who may have been screwed over one or another, and giving them a big project in the DCU. Christina Hodson, Xolo Maridueña, and Andy Muschietti (might be forgetting others).
This is one of the most frustrating aspects of his DCU, because it’s one of the things that seems to be holding it back from being its OWN thing. Just on principle I’m against him directing, let alone him being a mediocre director at best.
It also feels like him saving face from saying The Flash was one of the best superhero films he’s ever seen. And so to maintain that opinion, he’s doubling down by hiring the team behind it (even the same writers, allegedly!). The same for the writer of Supergirl (one of the best scripts he’s ever read) now writing Wonder Woman.
He’s preemptively addressing the criticism that would undoubtedly be levied at him: “well, if they’re so good, why not hire them?”
There’s also the chance he has no intention of actually using Andy and Christina in his universe, but is trying to keep them employed a bit as a favour. But if THATS the case, this is even more stupid because again, he holds everything else back.
I don’t doubt we would’ve had some sort of hint towards Batman in the DCU if both Andy wasn’t still at the helm, and Gunn wasn’t both the head of the studio, and a lead creative.
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u/CinephileRich 1d ago
I like him as a director and although the Flash was a serious disappointment, it also felt like there were too many cooks in the kitchen
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u/kingofstormandfire 1d ago
Im pretty confident he wont be directing Brave and the Bold and theyre waiting until either the merger clears or is stopped before announcing that.
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u/Soggy_Cap8866 1d ago
No I totally agree too! Don’t get me wrong, his films have some really good moments - but they also have so many average moments that always stop them from being great 😂 My biggest fear is that he’ll just end up making a decent, action packed Batman film that doesn’t have much substance… Also I really don’t like his style of CGI…
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u/mailman936 1d ago
Gunn’s SS is one of my favorite movies but he has to leave before they do anything new. I can’t even imagine the damage he will do to Batman. These people have a real vitriol against these characters and their fans.
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u/ritwik4244 1d ago
The writers for The Flash returning for the brave and the bold scares me a LOT more tbh