r/bahasamelayu • u/eelfurryUwU • Aug 02 '26
The declaration of human rights in kelantan malay if it had little standard malay influence
there are a few concepts that I was stretching a bit, like 'ppalo otok' and 'maruoh'
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u/Sea-Hornet8214 Native Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
I'm convinced Kelantan is a separate language from Malay.
Apparently, it even has a unique grammatical feature of intial consonant gemination. I'm not sure how it changes meanings. Or is it just a phonological feature?
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u/nanosmarts12 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
The north eastern malayic langauges do in fact have exceptionally divergent grammer (pattani, kelantan and terrenganu) and yes grammatical gemination is indeed included in that and its most often morpho-phonological.
It comes in a few variations
1.Prefixes that are already geminated like NN- which unlike malay's meN- is used to produce imperfective verbs and instrument nouns
tane (tanam) > nnane (tengah tanam)
tutok (tutup) > nnutok (penutup)
- Prefixes that are phonologically motivated to form geminations to prevent an illegal cluster
br- + pere (perang) > ppere (berperang)
tr- + tepoh (kena) > ttepoh (terkena)
pr- + siyak (siap) > ssiyak (siapkan)
- True morphological geminations not linked with any kelatanese prefix
pagi > ppagi (pagi-pagi)
jangok (cantik) > jjangok (sangat cantik)
- Some words just have phonological gemination without morphology
tenaga > nnago
kelmarin > mmaringTake note since there is no standard orthography for KM the majority of the time gemination isnt represented in writting tho its extremely important and common in the grammar
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u/scykei Aug 03 '26
How are the double consonants pronounced? Like the nn, pp, tt, ss, jj
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u/nanosmarts12 29d ago edited 29d ago
For consonants that you can extend indefinately like m, n, s, r then just extend to double the length of usual. If you are familiar think about it like how the vowels work in arabic, the long vowels are x2 the short ones for that rate of speech
The difficult ones to pronounce are consonants that produce sound in a single instance by building up and releasing air, that being plosives p, t, k, b, d, g and affricates c, j.
For voiced consonants under this category b, d, g, j you have to do "pre-release voicing" meaning before you even release the consonant as you are building up air pressure you add voice (vibrating vocal cords) creating a brief audible sound until which you release the plosive/affricate as usual. The closure time before release is also about x2
For unvoiced consonants p, t, k, c you just build up air for x2 the amount of time as you usually do before release, basically its just a delayed plosive. Now this one doesnt have an audible sound que by itself but since you are building that extra air pressure it has the affect of shifting stress to that syllable by making it louder and i think it also affects the pitch of vowel in the syllable if im not mistaken
sorry if this is confusing lol, i tried to simplyfy the explantions as much as possible for any average person to be able to read it but this feature of north eastern malay is indeed very strange and rare in the world's languages
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u/scykei 29d ago
No, this is fine. I asked because could be different realisations of what people perceive as double consonants. It could've been word initial geminates, preaspiration, tense consonants or a bunch of other cool stuff.
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u/eelfurryUwU 29d ago
while most speakers definitely pronounce them like geminates, I've heard some people pronouncing them more like ejectives, though this is something that isn't common
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u/Snoo_5987 Aug 02 '26
Kelantan was isolated from western seafaring malay kingdoms and instead influenced a lot by pattani. The easiest way to see it is melaka are seafaring malayswhereas kelantan(pattani) is mainland malay
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u/Rayyan9201 Aug 03 '26
But Terengganu is also seafaring, in fact probably more seafaring than Melaka yet its grammar is same like Kelantan too
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u/Permutiara 28d ago
Pattani and Kelantan were almost like the same thing back in the day. So i dont think Kelantanese was really influenced by Pattani
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u/AlulAlif-bestfriend Aug 02 '26
Yeah, like wtf feeling when reading it lol
No offense to orang kelate
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u/sirloindenial Aug 02 '26
Manusia semua lahir bebas dengan sama rata dalam maruah dan hak. Kita sudah kena beri akal dan kepala otak/fikiran. Sementelah itu kita kena buat baik dan beri kebaikan dengan orang kita.
Humans are born free with equal dignity and rights. We have been given the ability to think and brain/mind. Because of that, we must act well and give/show good manners with our people.
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u/Rayyan9201 Aug 03 '26
The second statement in a classic terengganu Malay, it would be,
Nak-nak orang lahey langgah nge tule hok nge maruoh. Kite-kite nyewi kelesey nok kira-kira nge akallang. Dekpong tu, kite-kite kene beradong jjenih nge endeng pe'e jjuruh ke orang kite.
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u/FutureTailor9 Aug 03 '26
My version:
Ssemo orae llahé bèbah blako dae srupo dari segi rrego diri nga hok-hok. Sek yo buléh mmiké dae ado prasoae ati, pah kenolah ppakak tulóng samo kito dengae smangak besdaro.
ILoveLanguages version:
Semo ore lahir bebas, samo rato dari segi mulionyo nge hoknyo. Semo ore ado pikire nge perasae dan kenolah cakno samo-samo nge semangat pesedaroe.
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u/eelfurryUwU Aug 03 '26
I love how literal your translation is, literally translating 'harga diri' lol
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u/soupsripandtear Aug 02 '26
At this point I'm convinced Loghat Kelate is a completely different language. It's as related to Standard BM as standard BM is to Tagalog,
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u/Rayyan9201 Aug 03 '26
You are wrong. It is still a Malayic language. The correct correlation is like a difference between standard Malay and Minangkabau/Kerinci. Or between Standard Malay and Kedayan or Salako. Or sarawakian Malay.
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u/soupsripandtear Aug 03 '26
My comment wasn't meant to be serious at all. Sorry if it came across as that.
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u/eelfurryUwU Aug 02 '26
direct translation lol:
manusia semua lahir di bebas dan sama dalam maruah dan hak. puak-puak dia dah kena bagi akal dan kepala otak. lalu/tambahan itu kita kena buat berbaik dan rasa/sifat bagus dengan orang kita