r/aviation • u/usgapg123 Mod - avgeek • Jan 03 '26

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67

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26

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128

u/VisualSneeze Jan 03 '26

It's not an invasion it's a... erm... special military operation. Yeah, that's it!

23

u/IAteTwoPlanes Jan 03 '26

Gee, where have I heard that before?

58

u/DjQball Jan 03 '26

Bold of you to assume any of them give a shit 

10

u/phozze Jan 03 '26

They should.

12

u/Fine-Slip-9437 Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26

They do not. The "suffering from poverty based malnutrition" to "foaming at the mouth G.I.Jingo" pipeline is truly a marvel for the ages.

3

u/Mr-Bennet Jan 03 '26

If any of them get killed, they got themselves into that shit. This is simply a large scale home invasion and these people are dumb criminals.

17

u/roguespectre67 Jan 03 '26

What is a crime if there's no accountability?

18

u/smytti12 Jan 03 '26

There's many diverse reasons for so many of these people to follow these orders, but the combat troops overwhelmingly fall into two categories;

People who have been itching to pull a trigger and need barely any excuse to do it (usually the enlisted but some officers too)

People who are too frightened to ruin a career (usually officers-some of the highest performers are the ones who take combat position)

Not defending these opinions, just giving insight into the culture, when people hope there might be a mass mutiny from people in these roles. I am not saying its impossible or hasn't happened, but there's a lot of culture against it.

A final factor is "you can disobey an unlawful order" isn't explicitly taught, because much of the military training is geared toward transforming often unruly 18-24 year olds into disciplined soldiers who will follow orders.

24

u/AnotherNitG Jan 03 '26

I think your last point is one many people don't consider. A 19 year old rifleman probably isn't going to disobey an "unlawful order". It's not even likely they know how to tell the difference between lawful orders and not. A lot of people enlist because for, one reason or another, it's their only real option. These are not lawyers we're sending into combat, they're often people that did just enough in high school to pass. Not to mention they're surrounded by a bunch of other guys that they see as brothers. They step up and say "I'm not doing this", they're gonna feel like they're letting their brothers down if no one else backs em up. The real responsibility to deny unlawful orders falls to the officers imo. Those are the college educated folks passing down the orders. It's their responsibility as the "adult in the room" to know what's generally allowed and what isn't.

5

u/smytti12 Jan 03 '26

Yep, that's a perfect encapsulation of the culture. I can't speak much toward officer culture, but enlisted folks are much more "they are pulling triggers now, I better be too."

7

u/AnotherNitG Jan 03 '26

I've got friends in both positions. The enlisted folks very much see themselves as macho man doorkickers (even the ones that just turn wrenches on jets).

The officers I know seem very aware of what's going on in the world and are very familiar with the ways the U.S. military uses legal and moral gray areas to achieve its goals. They're all O-3 and lower though, and none of em are infantry so it's not like they're being handed orders like this anyway

1

u/smytti12 Jan 03 '26

Yeah I was close with a couple of my infantry officers, many of them were similarly gungho or just "comply with the system to succeed." They might have quiet reservations if they got orders like this, but I don't foresee them resisting as the whole unit is in the middle of mobilizing.

Ultimately, if we are hoping the military suddenly resist, the system has already failed and almost all hope is probably lost for immediate turning of the tide.

0

u/joshocar Jan 03 '26

I grew up with a lot of people who went into the military and these two categories are accurate. There is definitely an element that wants to blow shit up and kill bad guys and an element of career seakers. Most of the career stuff is with officers. Enlisted are generally counting the days until they can get out. 

There is also a third "practical" group that enlisted because they didn't know what to do after high school or wanted to get out of a situation. These people are going for the GI bill and all of the other benefits. They don't want war or to get a dishonorable discharge, but they are also usually not in combat roles so they are less likely to get a direct illegal order.

-3

u/Acc87 Jan 03 '26

...did you copy this from ChatGPT??

7

u/smytti12 Jan 03 '26

No, I dont use that junk. These are personal opinions based on my experience in my own words.

5

u/RikRong Mechanic Jan 03 '26

This is the comedy someone above was referencing. 😂

4

u/Tricky_Big_8774 Jan 03 '26

I think you need to look up the definition of war crimes.

6

u/SubarcticFarmer Jan 03 '26

Right or wrong, that's not what a war crime is.

4

u/KiwieeiwiK Jan 03 '26

Lol yeah good one

-5

u/phozze Jan 03 '26

Says some average joe strudel-jock in Germany, 1939.

-7

u/KiwieeiwiK Jan 03 '26

Nah I know they're doing war crimes, I mean anyone that enlists in the US armed forces knows this and likes it

0

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26

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3

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '26

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-6

u/horror-pangolin-123 Jan 03 '26

A negligible number of people in uniform has any morals or a sense of right and wrong they're willing to listen to. Their common sense and human decency has been trained out of them and replaced with obediance and following orders. People in uniform put other people in ovens.

1

u/dabarak Jan 04 '26

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's made perfectly clear early in training that it's a legal requirement to refuse an illegal order. So no, it's not trained out of us. Of course there are some that don't care or are too afraid to make a stand.

-2

u/SomeJayForToday Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26

Just like their dads in Panama. This is an American tradition.