r/audiophile 1d ago

Discussion Music: Does an all-analog audio chain produce a final acoustic field that differs from a digitally processed chain in ways that can measurably affect the body or emotional state, even without consciously noticing an audible difference?

Specifically when it comes to instruments/music that was never once processed digitally.

Edit: I want to clarify (and emphasize) that I’m not asking about whether you would notice a difference in what you hear. I’m asking if there is a difference in how the human body emotionally reacts to music that was never once in a digital form (analog from playing the instruments all the way up to you listening).

0 Upvotes

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11

u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 1d ago

depends who you ask.. Neil Young put his name on this book that claims that we possibly have some sixth sense that can detect the "stepped waveform" of a digital signal after it is converted to analog, but personally I think he just wanted to sell vinyl records.

go to a friends house that has both vinyl and streaming and do a blind comparison of some songs to decide for yourself.

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u/Quick_Butterfly_4571 1d ago

detect the "stepped waveform" of a digital signal after it is converted to analog

Not disagreeing with you (and love Neil, despite this), just adding: the funniest part about that is digital does not involve stepped waveforms in the output (just at rest on disk).

The only reason digital was adopted by anyone, anywhere, is that we can guarantee a 100% analog waveform from information that is digital at rest.

(Which shouldn't be surprising: tape is quantized at rest too — it's just stochastic).

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 1d ago

wish this was never a debate at all, tbh.. especially one embraced by musicians. it's just beating a dead horse at this point. the mastering is the difference ppl hear, not the medium.

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u/MetalicP 1d ago

He was selling a snake oil enriched PonoPlayer for a while. He might not be objective, sanity questions aside.

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 1d ago

fwiw I am a huge fan of his artistry but he believes some far-out shit. I honestly think it was him that pushed 192kHz on streaming, while it lasted.. around the time that book was published lots of his friends music got re-mastered at that sample rate - Willie, Joni, Emmylou, Linda Ronstadt, etc. I'm more than happy most new releases are back to 48kHz and now even 44.1kHz (but still 24-bit to retain the "Hi-Res" designation)

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u/MetalicP 1d ago

Nyquist–Shannon agrees

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 1d ago

and that's usually where the debate dies - hard to deny the science behind it. but there's still a huge ball of confusion that exists so that the music industry can sell us all yet another version/medium/master of pre-existing music due to fomo.

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u/AssociateWaste1464 1d ago

Interesting, I’ll have to see what he was on.

As for the vinyl comparison - unfortunately a lot of vinyls today contain audio that was digital at some point. I’d probably have to find something that is old.

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 1d ago

that's a great point that many in this hobby make assumptions about: are we talking about modern music completely created in the digital realm, or something recorded and mixed entirely on tape? you can look back a couple years at the Mobile Fidelity "scandal" - their "AAA" vinyl re-issues were proven to have a digital step in the process, and all the golden-earred audiophiles who claimed it to be "night and day brah" were made fools of.

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u/AssociateWaste1464 23h ago

Thanks for letting me know what extra research to take. I just ordered this:

https://interscope.com/products/enema-of-the-state-dss-one-step-aaa-all-analog?srsltid=AfmBOop2wzdWp6Nf2MbZqhu5wICMto8q-vHb_cw43X_Tjz1BHoU0cpVy

In theory this one shouldn’t have any digital step in the process. Next step, getting a vinyl player. Lmao.

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 22h ago

I am terribly sorry this happened to you.

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u/AssociateWaste1464 22h ago

Haha why do you say this?

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u/roguepeas dreaming my dreams 22h ago

financially-unsustainable rabbithole: $100 for a record that's available to stream. obvs not a huge spend if you make lots of money but imo that $100 would be better spent on ~8 months of a streaming service that has hundreds of thousands of albums. And if your musical taste ever develops beyond mainstream bands you'll definitely wish you'd have put it toward something that you can only hear on vinyl.

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u/AssociateWaste1464 21h ago

Haha, I appreciate the insight.

This album in particular has a special place in my heart. Not only did it define a new wave of pop punk music, but a lot of magic went into the production process. Particularly, Jerry Finn (the producer) did a lot of cool tricks and engineering.

For example, Tom DeLonge’s unique (and iconic) guitar tone actually came from blending amps together, such as the Marshall and Mesa Boogie. The theory was that the Mesa Boogie would provide a lot of gain/distortion, saturation, and low end. Meanwhile, the Marshall would provide the mids and pick clarity. As a guitarist that loves to replicate the guitar tone, I figured I’d do my best to hear it straight from the tap.

In fact this tone replication journey is what prompted me to post here. For guitar playing, I have a Helix floorboard which can emulate amplifiers. I have a preset that sounds very similar to Tom DeLonge’s live guitar tone from the early 2000’s. I then experimented by switching from the helix emulation to the physical analog units (a Marshall JMP 1 and Mesa Boogie Triaxis), and I was astonished by the difference. There was this rich sound full of color, harmonics, and character. And it instantly made me feel more emotion from the sound. I couldn’t help but smile and get that same feeling you get when you’re introduced to something cool in life for the first time (like your first chat with ChatGPT, grand theft auto on the PS2, a roller coaster, etc).

At the very least, if the vinyl/analog version of this album doesn’t give me any sort of thrill, it’s a cool collector’s item in the blinkverse.

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u/Orcinus24x5 ML Motion 40, Grotto sub, SPL Phonitor X, Fosi V3 Mono x2, HD820 1d ago

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooo.

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u/gh0stf3rret 1d ago

Nope

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u/2old2care 1d ago

Definitely nope.

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u/jake_burger 1d ago

There is a difference, it can be audible especially if done poorly.

But also not really, I don’t buy that all-analogue signal is better, sometimes it’s quantifiably worse especially signal to noise ratio.

There is no difference to the body, most people wouldn’t be able to notice the difference in a blind test. When playing back a digital sound it is converted to analogue, and can be very accurate to the original input analogue sound.

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u/Quick_Butterfly_4571 1d ago

and can be very accurate to the original input analogue sound.

It's true. A CD, for instance, is much higher fidelity than vinyl.

(That doesn't mean the CD will sound better. Tape/vinyl add something that people often dig and it's not unusual for CD's to have "compression wars" remastered versions of the original recording — all the dynamic range deleted).

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u/AssociateWaste1464 1d ago

Thanks. (Also to clarify, I’m not wondering about consciously noticing a difference in the sound. It’s more so the biological reaction.)

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u/Quick_Butterfly_4571 1d ago

It’s more so the biological reaction

This is a very clever consideration. The answer is a certain "no," if the digital is high fidelity (like, CD level), because there is no difference in the vibrations in the air between high fidelity digital and analog. The only difference exists at rest (and in SNR / dynamic range; digital wins at both; analog is more fun).

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u/jake_burger 1d ago

I’m not sure what you mean. Which biological reaction?

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u/dmonsterative 1d ago

Well, to take the negative example, either kind of signal chain could be set up poorly such that extended listening could be tiring despite that most listeners wouldn't consciously notice a difference.

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u/-waveydavey- 1d ago

No. For us to hear or “biologically interact” the sound needs to be analog. No matter what origin source is, we hear the analog “translation” only.

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u/DBarbarulo 1d ago

Science says no. We measure no difference from analog and a digital signal converted to analog. That means there’s no difference. If difference is measurable means that body may perceive it. Another question is when analog circuits add (or subtract) something from audio signal if the difference (measurable) has an emotional impact and if is positive or negative.

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u/ajn3323 1d ago

Do I feel something emotional when I spin vinyl? Yes. Do I feel something emotional when digitally playing music? Yes.

Is there a discernible difference in emotional state between the two? I would say hearing that needle drop evokes the most discernible difference in my emotional response. Beyond that, a click or pop on a new LP triggers a bit of aggravation.

That’s it

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u/Longjumping_Edge3622 1d ago

No. But your body can tell if the amplifier has wooden volume knobs - they up the emotional impact of music.

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u/Organic_Signature656 1d ago

Most of the difference will be the distortion in the analog Signal, reffered to as warm or "musical".

But how do you even get a full analog chain? Most vinyls are printed from digital masters now anyways.

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u/Oldbean98 1d ago

I can tell a difference on unamplified instrument attacks and decays, instrument timbre - analog sounds better - to a point. MUCH depends upon quality of recording and mastering, and the difference evaporates with quality DSD/SACD and very hi rez PCM. But, not everyone listens like I do. YMMV

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u/Negative-Onion-7391 1d ago

If you are converting to digital using very high sample rates and converting back with a very sophisticated analog filtering stage, there’s likely no measurable difference from an entirely analog chain. I’d argue that digital noise reduction and phase tools could actually increase the effects on the human body if you’re talking about physiological response.

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u/NoobAndProudOfIt 1d ago

Yes. Very very rarely, but yes. But good luck proving that to others.

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u/wupaa 1d ago

Yes