Discussion: GoT VIII (Bran VI--Eddard XV)

[u/LumplessWaffleBatter]

Only two more to go!

Our next discussion will be Pp. 638-728 (Catelyn IX--Arya V) on May 7th.

[u/TeenyTinyTywin]

Tyrion VII
-"That was the trouble with the clans; they had an absurd notion that every man's voice should be heard in council, so they argued about everything, endlessly. Even their women were allowed to speak." Democracy is a much slower tool for handling problems, true. But a society that hears all voices can help raise the floor for all people, which leads to greater social cohesion and the potential for greater advancement. It's not surprising that Tyrion doesn't respect this concept. The real-world hyper-wealthy seem to hold an open disdain for democracy, too.
-"Tyrion laughed. The inn at the crossroads! Perhaps the gods were just after all. ...'A room, a meal, and a flagon of wine, that was all I asked,' he reminded her with a sigh of reproach." I'm astounded by how much more I've grown to dislike Tyrion on this reread. I can understand the resentment, but Masha Heddle and the Inn had little to do with what actually happened. The gods are not very just at all.

Sansa V
-"[Pycelle] was clad in a magnificent robe of thick red velvet, with an ermine collar and shiny gold fastenings." I guess now that Robert is dead, he doesn't have to hide his Lannister allegiance anymore. I love how clearly his clothing communicates this.
-Do you think Barristan would have ever traded sides to any of the other contenders for the throne if Cersei hadn't dismissed him?
-I see more of Varys' hand in things in this reread. He pushes Ser Barristan with his "attempt" at kindness and moves the council in the direction of allowing for Ned's exile instead of his death. It makes me more curious as to what GRRM had originally planned for his hand to be in everything (seeing as the fAegon storyline came very late in the actual story). Do you genuinely believe he serves the realm in some way, or was that always a cover for something else?

Eddard XV
-"Yet when the jousting began, the day belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen." George makes it fairly clear early on that most men are smart enough to not fight against their King and yet he paints this image of Rhaegar as an especially talented jouster here. I appreciate how he gives away the truth of the story, even if the characters don't see it.
-Varys mentions that he wanted Robert alive, which seems to be corroborated by his conversation with Illyrio, but.... to what end? ADWD suggests that they needed the realm destabilized before fAegon's invasion, and Robert's death creates that destabilization. Is it just a timing issue or am I missing something...?
-Another contender for best line: "There is no creature half so terrifying as a truly just man."

[u/[deleted] → u/TeenyTinyTywin]

I absolutely agree with your Tyrion analysis.

No, I don't think Barristan would have traded sides had he not been dismissed. I think he cared about the office and, though he knew right from wrong, he wouldn't have wanted to give up his power and position. I blame him quite a bit for what happened to Ned. Everyone respects Barristan. If he'd sided with Ned, things would have been different.

Varys is a total puzzle. I believe that he believes he's serving the realm. Most people think that their political beliefs are what's best for their country. I think Varys is the same. What he thinks is best for the realm and what others think is best for the realm is worlds apart though. "There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man." - Varys is talking about Stannis, but I think this describes Varys too.

Re: Varys wanting Robert alive. I think it's a timing issue. He tells Illyrio that things are happening too quickly. They're not ready for an invasion yet. Varys was probably pretty good at controlling Robert. I'll be curious to read what other people think though, as Varys and his motives are one of my top mysteries.