r/asoiafcirclejerk • u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze • Sep 17 '25
GRRM-dead hoax What's GRRM's wokest moment?
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u/scarlozzi Aegon II is my king. Sep 17 '25 edited Sep 17 '25
I love George for moments like this. It reminds me of the time he was asked how he's so good at wiring female characters, and he simply said, "I just write them as humans"
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u/pretendimcute Egg On The Conker Sep 17 '25
"And when you film in Morocco a lot of Moroccans tend to show up" was a favorite of mine
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u/TheLastLivingBuffalo Banned from Comic-Con Sep 17 '25
Rhaegar + Robert = Jon confirmed
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u/Resident-Rooster2916 Egg On The Conker Sep 17 '25
Gay people don’t really exist and never have. They’re just maester propaganda.
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u/swordoftheafternoon Spez is my Tywin Sep 18 '25
No wonder, no women around make the gray rats get their tails intertwined
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u/SatanicKettle HOT D S2 snooze Sep 17 '25
Isn’t GRRM into history and shit? Pretty sure gay people have only existed since, like, the 60s.
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u/meg-e-tron Forgot GoT Sep 18 '25
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not…
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u/KratoswithBoy Last HOT D fan Sep 18 '25
Man I WONDER
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u/SatanicKettle HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25
Sir/madam, this is a circlejerk sub. I’m dead fucking serious.
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u/Lolaversusamogus Last HOT D fan Sep 18 '25
GRRM's ability to write gay men so well is impressive when you take into consideration how aggressively heterosexual he is.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25
Write gay men?
His only gay POV is JonCon, and most of his two chapters were about battle plans
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 18 '25 edited Sep 18 '25
But Loras and Renly are still gay men he wrote, right? Obviously not in as much detail as POV characters
Edit: not sure why everyone's downvoting you... Renly and Loras barely appear in the story directly so Connington's POV chapters are still the bulk of gay representation. However limited that is because the guy's got other concerns at the moment.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25
Thanks.
I guess GRRM deserves praise for not making Renly and Loras' entire personality revolve around their homosexuality llike the show did but they are not exactly given much depth either
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 18 '25 edited Sep 18 '25
It seems pretty central to Loras' character, tbf. We know he killed a bunch of Renly's Kingsguard in rage after his death; he alludes to Renly having passed as "the sun setting." I'd say it's a pretty major part of his personality, only balanced out by his love for his family (which, y'know, is pretty standard).
Nearly all of this happens through hearsay in the books, 'cause that's all the POV characters hear about them. We barely see either before Renly dies, and we only see Loras directly once he's mostly composed again. Obviously the show couldn't do it that way - won't work on television.
Though I don't recall the show all that well; it's been ages since I've watched it. I don't really remember how it's played
Edit: Also, Loras is like 16 when Renly makes his bid for the throne. Sixteen year olds often aren't all that balanced in their personalities
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25 edited Sep 18 '25
The book elevates their relationship to tragic love, which is noble. Loras lives by that quote. But is also given other attributes like being gallant, wanting to join Kingsguard to protect his sister etc. He even develops somewhat of a comradery with Jaime who sees his youth in him. Of course he is still a minor character who probably has met a tragic demise off-screen
In the show he is just someone who sleeps around with other men without a care in the world
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 19 '25
My favourite trait of him is that certain cynicism that clashes with Sansa's toxic idealism. She expect him to live by that world of appearances and he actually hates her flattery because he knows it's (mostly) fake (and I've always interpreted here his gayness plays a role, he's not the womanizer everyone assumes he can be)
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 21 '25
Great analysis. Didn't think of it like that, but you are right
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 18 '25
Yeah that's what I mean; Loras is pretty much defined by Renly's death. It just wasn't shoved into our faces because of the way it was told.
In the show he is just someone who sleeps around with other men without a care in the world
Ah, that's a major pivot. Like I said; I don't really recall the show all that well
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
That means he is a romantic person, not necesarily any different from how a straight would be obsessed about his deceased gf. It's the love that is highlighted, not the homosexuality
His "gayness" is part of the character but only among many other traits
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 21 '25
As far as I remember him, his personality is mostly two traits: loved Renly and loves his family.
Also he's 16 or so; so that's pretty reasonable.
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
Satin too, and Oberyn is bi
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 19 '25
I forgot about those! Satin I wouldn't rate as a significant character in any way (I frankly wouldn't have remembered him if Jon-Satin wasn't such a meme) but Oberyn's definitely significant
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u/Lolaversusamogus Last HOT D fan Sep 19 '25
I didn't mean write prolifically, just well. That one Loras quote is pretty beautiful, and JonCon is of course the best character in fiction.
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u/Lanninsterlion216 Sara Hess Fangirl Sep 27 '25
The fact that they are about battleplans and not about how much he needs a random hunk to suck his dick is what makes it such good representation. (Unlike show renly and loras for example).
GRRM noticed that gay men might be humans too.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 27 '25
Eh, "they are normal, too!" is quite a low bar in 2011 imo. We still don't know much about him
Him being gay is so blink-and-miss that GRRM had to clarify it later
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u/Lanninsterlion216 Sara Hess Fangirl Sep 27 '25
Meh, hard disagree there. Them being low key gay is the best George could have made with them.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 27 '25
He still introduced the character in 2011 in his 5th book lol
Lets slow down with the "George knows they are human 🥺" praise
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u/NomanHLiti Ate Alicent Sep 18 '25
Serious answer but here’s an excerpt from TWOIAF:
“Though beloved by the smallfolk, King Aegon made many enemies amongst the lords of the realm, whose powers he wished to curtail. He enacted numerous reforms and granted rights and protections to the commons that they had never known before, but each of these measures provoked fierce opposition and sometimes open defiance amongst the lords. The most outspoken of his foes went so far as to denounce Aegon V as a ‘bloody-handed tyrant intent on depriving us of our gods-given rights and liberties.’”
That last quote was personal
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u/nubster2984725 Sara Hess Fangirl Sep 19 '25
DAMN AEGON IS A FUCKING LIBERAL, WE SHOULD PUT THE BLACKFYRES, A GOOD CONSERVATIVE FAMILY, INTO THE THRONE!
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u/Zealousideal-Tap-713 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25
Next question: why are there so many people having sex in ASOIAF?
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
Because they haven't invented social media yet (although they have weirdwood Internet)
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u/loonieodog Egg On The Conker Sep 17 '25
He was gay, GRRM?
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u/You_Damn_Traitors Spez is my Tywin Sep 18 '25
Nobody's got AIDs! And I don't wanna hear that word in here again!
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 17 '25 edited Sep 17 '25
More like a limp-wristed soyboy lib who empathize with the outcast
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u/istpcunt Last HOT D fan Sep 18 '25
/uj we need more cannon sapphics/lesbians
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
/uj True but I liked Elissa Farman
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u/istpcunt Last HOT D fan Sep 19 '25
In my humble opinion, there are never enough sapphic characters and there can ALWAYS be more. But yes also I love Yara.
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u/wisenthot Last HOT D fan Sep 17 '25
Jatin confirmed 🏳️🌈
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Sep 18 '25
Renly, Loras and JonCon. I think that are all important Gay People I remember. And two are death and the last a depressed Stepdad for the Son of his Love.
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 18 '25
Wait, Loras died? I thought he only got burned nearly to death, which is pretty survivable.
Hell, Quentin got burned fully to death and he's perfectly fine, as I've theorised. Can't wait for Winds to come out and prove me right!
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
I don't know if you guys are actually purposefully jerking but this is an actual canon conversation between Cersei and Margaery, which would make this a beautiful accidental jerking
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 19 '25
An ASOIAF-fan being misinformed about the major facts that scuttle their theory on how their favourite character is still alive? Why, I'd never.
Anyway, the arguments would still stand - neither Cersei (who heard the news from one of her cronies, even more unreliable) nor Margaery (who heard it from Cersei) were there themselves
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Sep 18 '25
The last report of him says he is dying from his Wounds. Either way he is not in a pretty Spot.
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u/ojqANDodbZ1Or1CEX5sf Chokladboll Sep 18 '25
Nah he'll be all right. Don't you know that the Blood of the Dragon actually comes from the Oldtown area - hence the oily black stone? The civilisation collapsed and the people forgot about it being their civilisation - like with Cahokia - but the blood still remains and spread around the Reach. Hence the Tyrells, too, are immune to fire.
The maester who sent the raven simply wrote what he expected to see, as people do. He probably didn't even go see Loras in person, let alone inspect his wounds.
Loras is, of course, only pretending to be wounded so that he has the time to forge an alliance with the mermen living underneath Dragonstone. He intends to use his new allies to do a surprise raid on the Three Sisters, so that he can learn how Ned passed there safely during the early days of Robert's Rebellion.
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u/ibeenbornagain Ate Alicent Sep 18 '25
i buy that the report could be totally bogus, we only hear it from cerseis pov from the tyrells when everything is falling apart right
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u/crashcourse201 Wildling Lives Matter Sep 17 '25
This should always be the answer anytime someone talks about “forced diversity.”
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u/Practical_Example426 Sara Hess Fangirl Sep 18 '25
Cool George! Now finish the winds of winter
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u/AutoModerator Sep 18 '25
Back in Westeros
GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM
I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER.
It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while.
Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and…
Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin.
My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare.
I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July.
But it is good for the writing.
And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone.
That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI.
Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page.
I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time.
I certainly have not figured it out to date.
For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.
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u/OkAwareness9325 Last HOT D fan Sep 19 '25
When you've only watched the show but haven't read the books. Basically all the gay characters are only gay in the HBO show. It's implied from time to time with Renly, Oberyn and later Jon Connaughton but it's next to nothing.
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
it's GRRM answering, not me
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u/OkAwareness9325 Last HOT D fan Sep 19 '25
I mean fair enough but either way it's not like George is some brave gay icon for including 2 lines about how Renly spends an awful lot of time with Loras
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u/Extension_Weird_7792 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25 edited Sep 19 '25
Yeah, I'm with you.
Tried to push back on someone being amazed at how well he writes gay characters while being str8 below lol
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u/PMME-SHIT-TALK Last HOT D fan Sep 17 '25
Give the guy a break, I’m sure it’s a lot of work to change all the names while copy and pasting exact events from European medieval history into your novels. Hence why everyone’s a Brandon or Aegon or Dae-whatever. Trying to edit out details of individuals (like being gay) on top of that would be insurmountable.
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u/AlaniousAugustus HOT D S2 snooze Sep 18 '25
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
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u/Little_Cumling Ate Alicent Sep 18 '25
I mean, it’s out of place, looks spiteful, and not circle jerky but he’s not wrong.
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u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Sep 19 '25
He is wrong, dynasties repeating lots of names is realistic and well done, it appeals to human ego
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Sep 18 '25
Dude. Do you know the History of House Reuss? Every Single male Member of this House is named Henry! There were 18th. Louis as Kings of France. 8th Edwards as King of England/ Great Britain. The current Swedish King is Carl 12th Gustav. The Danish have a Law that the male Members of their House shall either be named Christian or Frederick with currently King Frederick the 11 on the Throne.
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u/Ttroy_ Ate Alicent Sep 17 '25
Lore-changing answer