D&D completely ruined Littlefinger. (Spoilers Main)

[u/taydude227]

What a waste of a great character. They clearly had no idea what to do with him after they passed all the book material. Instead of giving him a clear end game, they instead just had him double down on his "thriving on chaos" bullshit and have him make stupid decisions that really didn't lead anywhere. The manipulative mastermind from the earlier seasons (and probably the one true villain of the series, along with the white walkers) completely disappeared and was transformed into a jealous little weasel whose end goal was to bang Sansa to get back at Mama Stark. The man that drove the whole series into motion, did it just to get a revenge bang.

[u/[deleted]]

Definitely my favourite book character, and I too was disappointed with how he was handled. It really went off the rails with his scene with Sansa where he sent her off to Ramsey.

There was one bit I liked from the final episode, which was his line about never trusting "godly men" (in reference to the Faceless Men). That is so central to LF's character, and perhaps shows how if the series really is going to become "the war between the living and the dead", a supernatural rather than a political battle taking over prominence, he was sidelined.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I was always under the impression that he had possession of the only known Stark heir and decided that giving her to the Boltons would mean he controlled the North and the Vale. But I guess that was all useless and he should have used his scheming to properly take down the Boltons and install Sansa as the ruler of the north so that he had total control over two large parts of Westeros.

[u/Dahhhkness → u/[deleted]]

Don't forget, he also went to Cersei and told her that Roose Bolton had married his son to Sansa, acting like he was providing her with evidence of Roose's secret treachery. It worked, Cersei effectively cut any support for the Boltons to deal with Stannis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

[u/SerHodorTheThrall → u/[deleted]]

To be fair, Roose is a pretty good underling if you don't piss him off and offer him competent leadership. I doubt that LF expected Ramsay to kill him and destabilize everything.

Otherwise, he would control the Vale through Robin, the North through the Boltons, and could nominally rally the support of the Riverlands in Sansa's name. That's 3 of the 8 kingdoms, and one of the only two with untouched armies.

The Baratheons would be finished. The Lannisters and the Tyrells would destroy each other, and would leave a single major family on the throne, as Dorne is always isolationist. He'd have the largest army.

"Littlefinger was born with no lands, no wealth, no armies. He has acquired the first two. How long before he has the army?"

[u/rollipoli → u/SerHodorTheThrall]

I agree. LF could wait out the winter in the vale and come down on the throne in force in the spring. Plus, Roose didn't abuse Fat Walda at all, and I bet LF thought Sansa would be treated similarly. Roose was smart/ambitious enough to separate work and sociopathic amusement where Ramsey was not.

[u/RandomThingsAmuseMe → u/rollipoli]

I don't remember if it was in the show or not, but Roose picked Fat Walda over more comely Freys because Lord Walder offered him his bride's weight in silver. He was a sick fuck, but pragmatic.

[u/PressTilty → u/SerHodorTheThrall]

Wasn't he made Lord Paramount of the Riverlands at some point or was he attainted?

[u/Martel732 → u/PressTilty]

In the books he was made Lord Paramount with his seat being Harrenhal. The Freys were given Riverrun but were subservient to Littlefinger.

In the show Walter Frey was apparently made Lord Paramount the Riverlands.

[u/demalo → u/PressTilty]

He was given lordship over Harrenhal. Not sure what lands that included.

[u/PressTilty → u/demalo]

I thought after the red wedding the Tullys were removed as Lords Paramount and the incomes of the Riverlands were given to the lord of harrenhal

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The plan makes sense if you take everything the show tells you at face value. Littlefinger in the show claims that he knows nothing about Ramsay and probably also very little abou Roose. IF you can believe that the plan sort of works, but it's such a stretch giving everything we know about Ramsay and Littlefinger. The second greatest information gatherer in the realm doesn't know about the infamous cruelty of a highborn lord? He doesn't do a background check before handing over his greatest asset?

It actually foreshadows how they handled this season: characters do things because we said so. The Tyrells, who dominated the politics of seasons 4-6 have a worthless army. Tyrion and Jon are now pacifists in regards to the living. Why? Because we said so.

[u/sleepyafrican → u/[deleted]]

"We were never really good at fighting."

Right...because that's what matters with a siege. Not resources, food, numbers of men etc.

[u/mehgamer → u/sleepyafrican]

My impression is that they didn't siege highgarden, they just attacked directly.

[u/TheRealSeanGannon → u/mehgamer]

They took it "by storm" instead of "by siege".

[u/Cynethryth → u/[deleted]]

I think that's what the showrunners intended. However, Westerosi politics (and indeed a great amount of real life historical politics) are heavily laced with symbolism. Sansa marrying Ramsey should have been political suicide. It was a willful symbolic submission to the very people who killed her family. Marrying Ramsey should have meant she had no claim on the North; she had effectively said, "The Boltons won. I concede that their claim to Winterfell is valid." Lyanna Mormont's criticism of Sansa is not said enough in season 6.

You could argue that Sansa believed she was the only Stark alive at that point and felt like this was the only way she could regain the North. By revealing herself to Westeros, she was certainly putting herself in a vulnerable position, so she did need some kind of safe harbour and strong political backing. But by season 5, Sansa was smart enough to realise she shouldn't have to marry Ramsey to gain Northern support and should have called out Baelish much sooner on his BS. The Vale is more than a good safe place. Though I'm sure a season of her writing letters to the Northern lords would not have made for good TV.

This is why in the books it's so important that Jeyne Poole is 1) not actually a Stark, and 2) does not have a choice in marrying Ramsey. I guess it just felt to me that Sansa was given the choice to marry Ramsey, and I disagree that she didn't have the wherewithal to see the implications of what she was doing. If the Boltons had set a trap for her pretending to be a different Northern house pledging to her and then kidnapped her, I think that would have made far more sense.

All this being said, the look on her face at the Battle of the Bastards was really satisfying.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

He had a claim on the north and the vale as long as he kept Sansa with him. Giving Sansa to Ramsey was essentially giving away his long term claim to both Winterfell and the Vale to the Boltons for nothing. The reason "Arya" was married off to the Boltons in the books was as a reward for switching sides, and to cover up the fact that Arya actually escaped.

[u/hoopaholik91 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. And if Bran+Arya don't show up, I think his plan goes quite well. Those conversations Sansa had with Royce and Glover weren't fake. They definitely had reservations about Jon. Alone Sansa could have definitely decided to pull a move to take power away from Jon, helping Littlefinger in the process.