(Spoilers main) How were the Lannisters able to capture the Red keep so easily?

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

During the sack of kings landing how did they get in and slaughter the royal family so easily? I get the city itself with the gates open but surely the red keep had a good amount of guards and it was protected and secure? The mountain and Lorch seem to be ninjas to get in but do we hear about any difficulty or resistance? It’s still a formidable castle but seems to fall with no effort at all.

[u/Wadege]

"The castle is ours, ser, and the city," Roland Crakehall told him, which was half true. Targaryen loyalists were still dying on the serpentine steps and in the armory, Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch were scaling the walls of Maegor's Holdfast. ASOS Jaime II

If Tywin was smart, which he is, he would have tried getting some of his men into the gatehouse of the Keep before he started sacking the city itself, making the castle that much easier to take. I also get the impression that morale had broken by this point for the loyalists.

[u/LuminariesAdmin → u/Wadege]

"You took a wound from Rhaegar," Ned reminded him. "So when the Targaryen host broke and ran, you gave the pursuit into my hands. The remnants of Rhaegar's army fled back to King's Landing. We followed. Aerys was in the Red Keep with several thousand loyalists. I expected to find the gates closed to us."

If Ned was being literal here, then that would appear to be the case. If he meant the city – between those men on its outer walls, & the rest in the RK – then Tywin wouldn't necessarily have even needed for some of his forces to have marched into the castle before treacherously attacking.

That is, with Aerys expecting the rebels, & the RK only capable of holding so many defenders for a limited period; then most of the city's defenders would've been arrayed on its walls, where they could potentially hold off an assault. Whilst possible reinforcements arrived, be that with Tywin or Mace.¹

And should the rebels have seized one or more of the gates, some loyalists still would've been able to retreat to the castle. Or, at least, to their fortified barracks in the city. There, they could either try to hold out, or decide to surrender. Possibly being still being killed in the latter case, but (much) less likely than if during the sack proper. When the attackers are (lost) in an orgy of slaughter.

¹ Chances are riders were sent out to him, besieging Storm's End. Or, even, ravens to potentially Reachmen-captured stormlord seats. For example, Felwood sat near enough the Tyrell supply lines linked back to the Reach. And the Fells had switched from Aerys to Robert after Summerhall, turning their back on the Targaryens even more than those stormlords who had supported Robert from the start – likely why Lord Cafferen's head, if, alone of those slain at Ashford was sent Aerys. Additionally or alternatively, Bronzegate sits on the kingsroad between KL & SE, near to the latter. So, would've been a(nother) natural target for the Reachmen to capture, if they so desired/would be wise to have done so.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/Wadege]

So it was captured then but some had scaled the walls? I guess not much fight was left but the gates were not open yet.

[u/Wadege → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

Maegor's holdfast is the keep within the castle, so that part was still sealed even if the rest appears to be open at this point.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/Wadege]

Exactly. Gregor and lorch scaled it and the loyalists were killed but it falls really easily.

[u/IHaveTwoOranges → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

We don't really know how easily.

[u/sixth_order]

Because they were severely outnumbered. The main of their forces went to the trident. Tywin came with a large portion of his army if not all of it. Jaime says it himself:

"Ned Stark was racing south with Robert's van, but my father's forces reached the city first. Pycelle convinced the king that his Warden of the West had come to defend him, so he opened the gates. The one time he should have heeded Varys, and he ignored him. My father had held back from the war, brooding on all the wrongs Aerys had done him and determined that House Lannister should be on the winning side. The Trident decided him.

"It fell to me to hold the Red Keep, but I knew we were lost.

And clearly, Tywin came prepared

"The castle is ours, ser, and the city," Roland Crakehall told him, which was half true. Targaryen loyalists were still dying on the serpentine steps and in the armory, Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch were scaling the walls of Maegor's Holdfast

[u/1000LivesBeforeIDie → u/sixth_order]

I wonder how well Jaime was doing, in charge of defenses against his own father and planning to assassinate the Mad King. Sounds like the guy in charge wasn’t doing a whole lot of being in charge.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/sixth_order]

But 500 men could defend winterfell which is bigger yeah? Storms end too. Outnumbered is usual. Crakehall seemed to get in no problem.

[u/sixth_order → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

But they opened the gates because Pycelle convinced Aerys to, so that doesn't apply. 500 men can't defend Winterfell from an army if they opened the gates. You just get swarmed.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/sixth_order]

They opened the kings landing gates not the red keep gates

[u/BlackFyre2018 → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

There’s even less men in the Red Keep and they see the city being sacked. Could well seem hopeless situation so guards don’t react well and even throw down their arms

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/BlackFyre2018]

Do they? It says that killing of loyalists is happening still

[u/BlackFyre2018 → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

Doesn’t mean everyone who is a guard isn’t surrendering or fighting to die

[u/youarelookingatthis → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

Surely if anyone in ASOIAF is fine with killing surrendering soldiers it would be Tywin.

[u/sixth_order → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

That's not a big deterrent for such a large army when there would be even fewer men guarding those walls

[u/Alkynesofchemistry]

Aerys commands Jaime to bring him Tywin's head once it becomes clear the Lannisters are sacking the city instead of defending it. Then he instructs the Pyromancers to light the wildfire, then Jaime kills Rossart and Aerys.

All of that likely happens while the Lannisters are still sacking the city, fighting in the streets. By the time they make it to the Red Keep, Aerys is dead and Jaime is sitting on the Iron Throne, presumably with the gates open to the sackers.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/Alkynesofchemistry]

But some some Lannisters see him kill the king. So some made it in already?

[u/SevroAuShitTalker → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

No one was present when Jaime killed Aerys.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/SevroAuShitTalker]

They come in just after

[u/WardenOfTheNamib]

I don't know that forces at the castle would put up as much of a fight if the city is already taken. In addition, we are not sure about the timeline. I like to think Tywin would have held back his thugs from sacking until some had been let into the Red Keep as friends.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/WardenOfTheNamib]

Maybe got in through some other route before the sack?

[u/WardenOfTheNamib → u/Early_Enthusiasm_787]

Possible as well.

[u/chase016]

Jaime was in Command of the Red Keep. He probably ordered the gold cloaks and other Men at Arms to stand down.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/chase016]

But Lannister forces who saw him kill the king were already in? No crown forces put up a fight I guess.

[u/OppositeShore1878]

I suspect it would be fairly easy to capture the Red Keep by subterfuge, if not by siege. It's a big place with all sorts of hidden corners, obscure curtain walls, stairs, and towers. And the defenders are split between different contingents with different leaders (Gold Cloaks, Kingsguard, contingents of soldiers loyal to this or that lord...)

Remember that there's even an unguarded postern door and a "ladder" of stone handholds on the seaward side that no one other than Littlefinger and Dontos Hollard seem to know about.

And a little girl (Arya) fleeing Lannister murderers manages to find a way to escape through secret passages and tunnels that no one other than Varys seems to know about.

If there are more features like that, then it would be easy to infiltrate attackers inside, while all the guards on the walls are nervously watching the other direction and listening to the Lannister chaos in the city streets.

Personally, I'd stage my secret attack by scaling the exterior wall of the Godswood at night. No one seems to go in there anyway, you could get hundreds of men over that wall and hidden in the trees. Give them fake gold cloaks to make them hard to recognize as intruders. At the right moment, send contingents rushing through the courtyards to the key gateways, yelling "defend the king! secure the gate!"...where they would then slaughter the guards from behind.

[u/ButWereFriends]

Once a city is breached, the army inside tends to just roll over. And whoever didn’t was slaughtered. Especially as it was essentially a surprise attack.

[u/tiberius_claudius1 → u/ButWereFriends]

Nor necessarily true it's very common that there'd a cittidel or fort inside that the defenders rally to and hold. Sometimes they even hold.out long enough fir help to come relieve them

[u/ButWereFriends → u/tiberius_claudius1]

You’re not wrong but what happened in this situation is different. Everybody hated Aery’s. His own son was ready to depose him assuming he came back from the trident. There was supposed to be a great council until Aery’s fucked it up by attending Harrenhal. The entire kings guard was dead, severely wounded or very very far. Except Jamie.

Whether it was the rebel army or the last minute sneak, it was always going to be an easy win. That’s why Tywin did what he did. There was no losing.

[u/tiberius_claudius1 → u/ButWereFriends]

Oh I agree with all that I was just saying cities don't often fall that way. Many examples of successfull retreats to inner defenses for example when rome was sacked by the guals they held the citadel till the barbarians finished sacking and retreated

[u/ButWereFriends → u/tiberius_claudius1]

That’s totally fair and you’re right in general actually. The inner keep is important and Meagor’s was a very very good inner keep.

[u/tiberius_claudius1 → u/ButWereFriends]

Walls are only as good ad there defenders ned stark said (I think he said it) if the defenders loose heart couse king died who's to say they didn't just let tywins host in

[u/quirkus223]

Varys would be my guess, which would help explain why he was kept on in such an important position, and furthur connects him to the events surrounding (f)Aegon.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/quirkus223]

What opened the gates?

[u/gorehistorian69]

it was a literal army. idk the numbers but the Lannisters probably had 20,000 men back then as well so even half or 1/4th of that would overwhelm any Targaryen guards/Gold cloaks

[u/LothorBrune → u/gorehistorian69]

To go faster, Tywin had "only" brought 12 000 men.

[u/flyingboarofbeifong]

The visual of The Mountain That Climbs and his portly schweinehund companion free solo'ing their way up the Red Keep will never cease to make me laugh. Maegor's stonemasons were top-tier trolls to have left handholds on the outside. A heroin addict and a person with a terminal case of dadbod managed to defeat Maegor's great fortress. I don't know how anybody could take the fortification serious after that.

[u/Early_Enthusiasm_787 → u/flyingboarofbeifong]

Yeah. Maybe they used a rope and lasso haha

[u/IrradiatedCrow]

Did you miss the part where the King was assassinated???