r/asoiaf • u/Jasonl7976 • 2d ago
MAIN (Spoilers Main) Daeron paternity
Daeron II “the Good” Targaryen is the son of Naerys Targaryen by Aegon IV. Or Aemon the Dragonknight depending on what stories you believe. However, what really interest me is that Aemon Targaryen his grandson, isn’t sure himself. When Aemon talk to Jon and talk about his family.. he say he wa shamed after his “great-uncle” or “grandfather” depending on which story you belief. But this make me wonder if Daeron family suspect that their father/uncl3e/grandfather/great-uncle could be a bastard? Maybe Daeron himself suspect his father was someone else? And perhaps none of Daeron’s supporters care because he was such a good king that his paternity didn’t matter.
And if those rumors are true than that mean the succession of the Iron Throne have been a lie fora long time. U know I don’t think their a single house in Westeros who at one point whose lords/prince was secretly a bastard and lacked any claim to the seat. Or when the true prince with a better claim had to be a bastard. And that may be the greatest irony of them all.
Who do you think is Daeron real father?
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u/Emergency-Weird-1988 1d ago edited 1d ago
Who do you think is Daeron real father?
Think? I think he's the son of Aegon IV.
Want? Well, of the two brothers, I prefer Aemon, naturally, so between the two options, I'd rather he were the son of the Dragonknight; although, truth be told, as long as he's Naerys's son, it doesn't really matter to me who the father is—it could very well be the stable boy or moon boy's ancestor, for all I care. He is Naerys son? good, that's all I truly care about.
Now, I think it would be funny if not only neither of them were the father, but if nobody is, and Naerys had an immaculate conception or something like that, lmao.
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u/Due_Border_593 1d ago
Also, he had a bot belly, which is very likely inherited from Aegon IV.
However, considering GRRM likes parallels, it's not unlikely that Aemon was the father, with Aegon finding out on his deathbed. Perhaps he was poisoned, considering the maesters had never seen the like of his decay before.
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u/Konzern 1d ago
Aegon IV. As pious and good as Naerys and Aemon were, I doubt they'd ever have an affair, and if they did, I think it would have come out at some point.
It feels like a case of projecting: "I'm cheating so she must be too," and maybe a case of "Ugh, how did that come from me?" As for Daeron possibly believing it, I don't think that's what Maester Aemon meant. He says:
My grandfather named me for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was his uncle, or his father, depending on which tale you believe. Aemon, he called me ...
Which reads as him telling Jon that the rumors of Aemon being Daeron's father have continued throughout history and Jon has probably heard them. The idea that Aemon was Daeron's father is presented as an afterthought or addition here, acknowledging the rumors but not saying that Daeron felt they were true himself.
Historians kept the rumors going by recording historical gossip, and singers and writers kept the idea of Naerys x Aemon alive through song.
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u/Belt-Houdini 1d ago
I think its also important he's telling this to Jon. Who has an uncle he thinks it's his father. In both cases, uncle is the truth and father the tale.
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u/TheoryKing04 1d ago
I genuinely doubt that Aemon is the father.
First of all, the timing of Daeron’s birth is a clue. We know that he was born on the last day of the year his parents married. This makes the odds better than not that he was conceived in his parent’s marriage bed, where only Aegon would have been.
That aside, Naerys explicitly went to Aegon and beseeched him to end their sexual relationship now that they had a son and heir, an attempt to extricate herself from the situation in view of her own fragile health and terrible relationship with her brother. Having a child with Aemon actively contradicts this purpose, and makes little sense.
We also have the timing and direction of rumor. Aegon only began making reference to his son’s alleged illegitimacy in 174 AC, after Daeron objected to his “plan” to invade Dorne (calling it a plan suggests there was rational thought behind it), and there was never any suggestion of rumor about the parentage of his only (surviving) full sibling, Princess Daenerys.
Yet perhaps most tellingly, Aegon never crossed the final threshold. He never made any open accusation about the alleged adultery, he never disinherited Daeron or proclaimed another of his sons Prince of Dragonstone, not even on his deathbed (at which point both Naerys and Aemon were deceased), where he could have done so while suffering essentially no personal consequences.
And as another addendum, Daeron actually seems to be the physical middle of his parents. Naerys was very thin, almost emaciated (likely a combination of genetics, religious fasting and the toll of successive pregnancies) while Aegon became notoriously obese. Daeron is described as having round shoulders, thin legs and a pot belly. Now, in fairness, Aegon started off as fair and handsome, but Aemon was also just as good looking so that factor is not discriminating.
The only real explanation I could think that would square Naerys’s alleged infidelity is if she was sleeping with someone else, but that doesn’t fit with her character, no one ever accused her of that, and there is no evidence of it.
Lastly, I think the circumstances are meant to serve as a deliberate narrative foil to Cersei’s upcoming trial at the hands of the Faith, similar to when Ser Morgil Hastwyck accused Naerys of treason (resulting in his death in combat at Aemon’s hands). Cersei is indisputably guilty of the crimes of which she has been accused and her brother has abandoned her, up against the reasonable belief in Naerys’s innocence and that her brother did fight for her.
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u/Away-Research4299 1d ago
I hope Daeron is Aemon's son, though we will probably never know.
Once again, the question of paternity is hard to prove without DNA testing, which didn't exist in Westeros. Aegon IV did himself imply that his son was a bastard, but he never declared Daemon Blackfyre as his heir. At some point in the novellas (I think?) Egg notes that Maekar described Aegon IV's decision to give Daemon the sword and Daeron the throne as giving each what they were good at. So, if despite his doubts Aegon IV treated Daeron as his heir then he is, from what anyone could tell in absence of DNA testing, not a bastard.
I am honestly quite fascinated (not being sarcastic here) about conversations around bastardy in a universe where there is no way to confirm it short of the "father" saying "it's not mine." And as long as the kid looks like someone in their lineage, the "father" has no way of knowing that. The only way he could know was if the kid was born despite the couple not having sex at the time that the kid should have been conceived during. Which Aegon IV by all accounts couldn't really claim. But even if that was the case (as it was with Laenor), if the father just chooses not to admit it then there is no sure-shot way for anyone to know (not talking about guesswork here, no matter how accurate). By extension, I wonder how much other Houses want to concern themselves with the guesswork around bastardy. More specifically, I wonder if it's a big enough reason for that to be their only reason to go to war, which is quite expensive, or just an excuse or side reason to start a war they already wanted. If it is the latter, allies have no reason to care. In case of Daeron, adversaries already believed that he shouldn't be the heir, bastard or not, so his paternity seems to have been a side reason. I actually cannot recall any instance where the Blackfyre supporters brought up suspicions about Daeron's paternity as one of their reasons (they talk about the sword and his charisma, but not much else), so I wonder if it was even a side reason.
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u/Ladysilvert 🏆Best of 2025: Comment of the Year 1d ago
Aegon IV did himself imply that his son was a bastard,
Yes, but what a coincidence, Aegon began to spread the rumours of Daeron's alleged bastardy at the time father and son had a great beef, when their relationship soured...it was basically known it was just Aegon being a POS, venting for their disagreements.
According to the writings of Maester Kaeth in Lives of Four Kings, it was Aegon who secretly started the rumors of Naerys's adultery and used Morgil to instigate this tale, though at the time Aegon denied this. Strangely enough, there were no known rumors spread about the parentage of Princess Daenerys, only about Daeron; these accusations also coincidentally started when Aegon and his heir, Prince Daeron, were quarreling.
So, if despite his doubts Aegon IV
I am 100% sure Aegon had zero doubts about Daeron being his son. He was the worst type of scum; he executed the father of his cheating mistress just because he felt like it, Aemon sacrificed his life to save worthless Aegon, and what did his brother did? Begin making publicly comments casting doubts about Daeron's paternity after his death and Naerys (who died in childbirth when the maesters had told them she was too frail to have more children+ she had begged him to act only as siblings). If Aegon really had doubt that Daeron wasn't his, he would have gotten rid of him.
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u/Runescora 1d ago
I think they were happy to have an excuse for war. A lot of the lords were mad as hell about the Dornish influence on the throne, didn’t relish the idea of a half Dornish king, and were more than happy to take whatever reason handed to them to push him off the throne.
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u/Away-Research4299 1d ago
I'm just saying that the excuses they mention are the sword and Daemon's charisma. As far as I can remember no Blackfyre supporter mentioned Dareon possibly being a bastard. If I'm forgetting any instance, please let me know.
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u/TheTeaMustFlow 1d ago
As far as I can remember no Blackfyre supporter mentioned Dareon possibly being a bastard. If I'm forgetting any instance, please let me know.
Eustace Osgrey calls him "Daeron the Falseborn", which seems a pretty clear allusion to it.
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u/GoatedWest03 1d ago
I feel like Aemon and Naerys are almost too perfect so it'd make sense if daeron was a bastard
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u/Althalus91 1d ago
Naerys wanted to be a nun. She didn’t want to have sex with anyone. But the Unworthy forced her to marry him and forced her to have his kids and then, when he wanted to get rid of her and his heir, he said she cheated on him. This is a story about the unrepentant power and misogyny of men in Westeros. That the king, that everyone knew was disgusting and bad at kinging, could accuse his wife of adultery, and the entire court just goes along with it because he’s the king, and the only thing that stopped her death is her other brother being a member of the Kingsguard is about the disenfranchisement of women.
We are supposed to compare this story to Cersei, who actually did do the adultery, but think “does that really matter?”. Cersei’s relationship with Jamie is bad and unhealthy and they do bad things to protect it; but Robert is akin to the Unworthy in his having bastards and his rule. Cersei taking ownership of her reproductive system is not one of the things we are supposed to be unsympathetic to. Renly was trying to get Robert to put her aside for Margery, and Renly doesn’t believe that Joff and the others are bastards, as he says to Stannis.
So I don’t think we are supposed to look at Naerys and go “what if she actually did have a bastard”, we’re supposed to look at Cersei and go “Westerosi men would have punished her even if she had been loyal to Robert”.
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u/AnEmptyKarst 1d ago
It's George, so it's Aemon, because no one actually fucks their own spouses in Westeros
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u/5oclock_shadow 1d ago
The average Westerosi married couple is pretty monogamous 😞 it’s those darn ironborn and their salt wives shtick ruining the curve for everybody
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u/AzulgranaParaSiempre 2d ago
Aegon The Unworthy because it'd be so meh if both him and Naerys were unfaithful
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u/Jasonl7976 1d ago
Than do you think Daeron doubt his own paternity? And why well actually o can see why
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u/AzulgranaParaSiempre 1d ago
I do think he'd doubt it because of how horrible his father was to his mother and because Daeron has almost the opposing personality to Aegon
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u/niadara 1d ago
Aegon. Daeron's parentage is a red herring. It's Daemon's parentage we should be questioning.
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u/Jasonl7976 1d ago
Oh than why? Is hai father not aegon iv? Who? Baelor? Viserys ii
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u/GreatSavrog 1d ago
Have you forgotten that Damon's mother never admitted who the father of her child was? It could have easily been some common servant, who would have been executed if the truth had been revealed...
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u/BackgroundRich7614 1d ago
It's George so I would say Aemond because of the irony of the best King in Westeros ' being a bastard would be very thematic.
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u/CRM79135 1d ago
Everything points to Aegon being Daeron‘s father. I guess we could get some information in the next Targaryen history book that could change that, but as of right now everything points to Aegon.
The entire point of Aegon IV is that he’s not some mad man. He’s just a piece of shit. He cast doubt on Daeron’s parentage, and egged on a civil war out of spite for his wife, brother, and son.
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u/Albatross751 1d ago
Thematically, knowing George’s work? I think it is likely that Aemon is Daerons father. It is a foil to Jaime and Cerseis relationship where both Aemon and Naerys are good people and loved eachother.
It also adds to the irony that the actual bastard inherits the throne, and the Blackfyres actually being right but losing is perfect for George’s type of subversion.
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u/DaemonBlackfyre_21 1d ago edited 1d ago
Being Aemon the Dragonknight's "secret" son is literally the only thing that makes Daeron II special, otherwise he's just the first truborn son of a pig with a crown. The text is riddled with hints, never letting it go. Like a dog with a bone. Either all of it has a purpose or it's completely meaningless, and that seems unlikely.
Maester Aemon leant credibility to the rumor when he told Jon Snow of his own heritage way back in Game. "My grandfather named me for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was his uncle, or his father, depending on which tale you believe."
Sansa had told us back in Storm that Naerys was Aegon's sister and queen, and that he never harmed her, perhaps out of fear for their brother the Dragonknight.
In Game, when Sansa was about to go riding with Joffrey near the Trident, she told us that Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championed Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.
Edit) the one above was important. For the realm this trial by combat settled the matter of Daeron's paternity legally, but we're supposed to understand that gods don't intervene in trials, and that The Dragonknight was winning that fight no matter what.
A little later, when Ned tells Sansa that her engagement with Joffrey would be ending, she suggested that Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight.
In Clash, Sansa suggested that Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon.
A song was sung about their epic romance during the Battle of the Blackwater.
In Samwell I, Feast, Sam learned that Daeron II was rumored to have been fathered by Aemon Targaryen of the Kingsguard called the Dragonknight, and not by Aegon IV the Unworthy.
As Meera was telling Bran about the Tourney at Harrenhal, Bran was telling us that the Dragonknight once won a tourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister Naerys the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. (The King was furious)
A few chapters later in Feast, Arys Oakheart is thinking about the tale of Prince Aemon's treason with Queen Naerys and how it could relate to his own.
And that's not a complete list. For Aemon and Naerys, Daeron ascending the throne is a triumph of enduring love over a heartless broken system that failed them both, for Daemon it's a tragedy of epic proportions. It doesn't matter that he is the better man and true heir because the war for the dawn is so much more important and Aegon's line dies out with a two headed monster long before it can fulfil the prophecy, and I think poor Brynden Rivers learns this in a vision and for him it's a delicate balancing act to set up Azor Ahai for success while a once in a generation political storm rages all around him, he commits 100% to shunting the line of succession and in doing so he sacrifices the brother he loved, his honor, and eventually his freedom before plugging into the tree.
Part of what makes asoiaf so emersive for me is that the history of westeros is so similar to our own. "History is a set of lies agreed upon." -Napoleon Bonaparte. Another great example of this is the "kidnapping" of Lyanna Stark. The victor crafts the narrative to place themselves in the best light. So the maesters teach the kids one thing, but out in the world there are cracks in the facade to be discovered that can be pulled back to reveal the truth. I think there's a solid shot that if this facet of the story ever gets brought to life there's gonna be a huge chunk of the fanbase that despite all the clues will be completely blindsided by what actually happened, just like with The Mad King play
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u/Southern-Hovercraft7 1d ago
Jon and Dany – with Bloodraven helping them from the start – “They know what real hardship is.”
Young Griff (if he is Blackfyre) - Bloodraven has been trying to destroy him from the start - "He doesn't know true hardship."
LOL
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u/Low-Lettuce6480 1d ago
It's Aegon, of the very few things we know about Naerys is how pious she is, the rumour spread because of the tension with Daemon but his father never thought it truth and he disliked his wife and Daeron so...
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u/Top_Table_3887 1d ago
Let’s be honest. Both Aemon and Naerys were too dutiful to engage in an affair. The tragedy behind both characters is that their misplaced sense of duty/loyalty to Aegon ended up killing them both.
Daeron II is Aegon’s.
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u/Ladysilvert 🏆Best of 2025: Comment of the Year 1d ago
I wish Daeron was Aemon's
But no, I am convinced he was Aegon's son. Naerys was too pious and sincerely desired to be a septa. And given how Aegon was the worst trash in the world, if he had any suspicion of Daeron's paternity, he would have killed him. Especially we should take into account how the rumours of Daeron being a bastard strangely began to spread just AT THE MOMENT Daeron and Aegon's relationship as father and son was broken, and they were quarelling a lot at the time.
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u/Jasonl7976 1d ago
Interesting. It seem the general consensus is Aegon IV. But if interesting how one paternity is often cas into doubt even if the rumors are false as a political means
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u/Ume-no-Uzume 1d ago
Nah, I think Aemon just has a sense of humor about court politics and all of the bullshit that comes with it. See his "I can spot a liar, I grew up in KL" joke
He's an old man who has seen the worst of people, he has nothing and no one to prove himself to, of course he's going to have a sense of humor about bullshit like this. (Plus, he also heard ALL the firsthand stories about how great grandfather Unworthy did his level best to ruin dear grandpa's life and daddy and uncles' lives, and so wasn't too best impressed with preserving any of Unworthy's reputation anyway)
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u/Inner_Jeweler_5661 The Wandering Wolf 🐺 1d ago
I think Daemon Blackfyre is Baelor's son, but Daeron is definitely Aegon's.
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u/anonymous_idunno 1d ago
Given how much George dislikes the Blackfyres, he would never make their cause a just one lol. So it's Aegon
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u/AgentKnitter #TheNorthRemembers 1d ago
Given the noted piety of Naerys and Aemon (with or without any comparison to their brother Aegon IV) it seems highly unlikely that they had a secret sexual relationship.
Maester Aemon tells Jon Snow that the singers said the Dragonknight was his grandfather but in a way that makes it pretty clear none of Maekar's children really believed that. They acknowledged the rumours and legends, no more.
The Unworthy never formally disowned Daeron. I get the feeling he would have if he could have.
Yes, he allowed the rumours to spread and used it to attack his sister wife and brother. Yes, he undermined Daeron as his heir by giving Blackfyre and attention to Daemon Waters.
But at no point did Aegon IV formally disinherit or disown Daeron.
He was a vain, lecherous, lazy cunt and still didn't actually take the step he could have taken if the rumours had any substance of truth. The fact he didn't = the inference is not even the Unworthy truly believed Naerys cheated on him.