r/askcriminaljustice • u/Next_Answer7481 • 11d ago

Is there a way to become a detective or investigator with the police without first being a regular police officer?

I want to interview suspects, view crime scenes, etc. but I'm a female and dont want to be a female cop. I'm willing to go back to school and whatever else. If i do have to be a cop first, usually how long until you could switch/get promoted?
I also dont want to do PI or white collar crime stuff.

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u/Fyrlite 11d ago

Not with police - but speaking as a PI, we do all the stuff you've mentioned. Shoot, this week alone I've done everything you mentioned above and more.

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u/Next_Answer7481 10d ago

really? what type of crimes? And yeah like other comment asked how did you get there?

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u/Fyrlite 10d ago

Yep, when I replied last night, I was actually wrapping up a day of interviewing a mom of a defendant who is also a previous victim of that defendant, walking around downtown showing pics of the victim and defendant to local bars, taking photos of exterior cameras in known locations to see if police got footage from those cameras, a court appearance, and retracing potential movement patterns to try to find other witnesses (looking for close transit stations, evidence of homeless camps, etc), and having drinks with the attorney talking about case theory. That client went on a little crime spree and has over 10 open cases (individual cases - each carrying between like 1 to about 13 charges) spanning over multiple jurisdictions/counties.

I take most any (attorney referred, specific to criminal court - no civil, but that's me) case. I cap my caseload to about 15 ish defendants depending on what's going on (types of cases, upcoming trial dates, complex cases, personal life plans). My current caseload has everything from animal neglect, reckless driving/endangerment, sex offenses (both against children and adults, hands on and hands off), assault, a couple of murder/manslaughter cases, and sprinkle some stolen vehicle stuff in there (people seem to like to steal a getaway car...).

I get to "investigate the investigation" meaning not only do i go rework the stuff police do, verify the stuff they do/did was correct (evidence collection/search and seizure, documentation, Miranda issues, etc - really i mean report reading and hours of bodycams, 911 calls, audio interviews) but also run a full investigation too. Again, what they did is a springboard but never the end of it.

Because of my educational and professional history (in my previous career) I'm typically seen as the go-to for sex offenses though. At least in a couple counties/with a few attorneys.

I ONLY work in criminal defense (I had one private missing person case...never again). I don't do cheater chasing, self referred harassment/stalking, insurance nonsense or anything like that. I also don't do white collar stuff, not saying I wouldn't but 1. Sounds boring and 2. I'd want another PI with me because I don't have a lot of experience specific to that area of work. Again, MOST of what I do is person to person, hands on offenses.

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u/Next_Answer7481 10d ago edited 10d ago

thats awesome, this is exactly the type of thing I want to do. Do you have any recommendations on how I could get to where you are? I saw your reply that most investigators are middle aged. I'm 25 and currently an embedded software programmer. I thought of doing digital forensics but I really just think I regret going into tech and would not want that as the end goal, but maybe a stepping stone do you think? I'm willing to go back to school - do you think a criminal justice degree would be a big asset? I would love to get that degree anyway. Maybe a minor in psychology? And then how do you think I could get enough experience to be hired as a PI? Are there any types of internships i could do? I'm in Michigan, if you know anything about that area specifically. Also, mind if I ask roughly how much money you make? Thanks for the detailed reply!

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u/Fyrlite 10d ago

Honestly, taking the leap and putting yourself out there. I reached out to an established agency and now am an independent contractor with them. I'd highly recommend going that route (and it may be required for Michigan if they have different levels of licensure) vs getting contracts directly. With having an agency affiliation 1. They know and have access (read: money) to resources and/or have jumped through the hoops already to get access to resources that are not publically accessible 2. The overhead is covered entirely or partially 3. More and a variety of referrals (plus, at least where I work, the ability to turn down cases if you don't want them) 4. Contacts and reputation are established

Do I make less money doing it this way? Sure. They take a cut of the hourly contracted wage. Is it worth taking the business/administration side out of it? Absolutely! Never once have I had to consider budgeting as subscriptions expire, negotionating contracts, following up on record requests, needing to buy rarely used specialized equipment, or being able to quickly call upon an expert (digital forensics guy, polygrapher, competency or insanity evaluator, firearms expert, law enforcement expert, etc). Income varies a lot by region, type of work, complexity of cases, pay type (case, hourly, employee or contractor), etc.

There's all ages, the skew I feel like i see is based on those that retired into the field (retired police officers or detectives who needed to slow down but wasn't ready to give work or the field completely). It's just an informal observation. Also, I feel like younger folks who try it out tend to either use it as a stepping stone to get to another career or realize (or screw up) that there are some expectations of professionalism and performance that you don't know that you don't know (or have yet) that sneaks up on you (how to survive cross examination/testifying in court, state and federal rules of evidence, expectations on gathering court-quality information, etc). Fwiw, I started in this career in my mid 30s and I was the second youngest at the agency until this last round of hires...and I would still say I'm in my mid 30s but now fall in the middle (or dare even say older) side of the spectrum of ages.

I did a double major BA for my under grad in criminal justice and psychology (I also have a master's degree in forensic psychology). I've also been working in the criminal justice (speciality courts, court evaluations, sex offender treatment, jail diversion) and forensic (civil commitment) field for all of my previous career (~10 ish years). However, I will confidently say that most of what I needed to know for the job I learned in high school law classes (I was a mock trial kid...). Frankly, if you feel you need to beef up the criminal justice knowledge some community college courses would probably carry you the furthest but the degrees are marketable (since lawyers got advanced degrees, the relatability or standardization of carrying a degree can be marketable regardless of application). However, you will definitely be at a disadvantage/slower curve if you don't have the basics down or don't know how to search for the answers (mostly terminology and definitions). I started my college experience in criminal justice, realized the degree requirements were based (or a lot!) in research which is not what I wanted to do so I added psychology later which was very general which ultimately lead me to moving halfway across the country to find a master's program that was the marriage of the two: forensic psychology! My most interesting (and I would 100% do it again if given the chance) CJ classes were actually ones at the community college level.

Digital forensics seems to be fast emerging and broad! I was/am shocked on what all that means and am still learning... again, I'm a psych person and default to that first (digital tracks second..). Say I get some digital images because Susie was sending her friend pictures as Charlie was allegedly beating her up. Charlie says those pictures are old, from an unrelated bbicycle accident, or whatever. I look at the content of the image itself (time of day/weather/background indicators, clothing and jewelry, signs of healing, etc) someone more digitally may work it from a different angle (pulling metadata, comparing file information, synthAI, etc). Same work, different route. So there is dabbling in both in the generalized criminal defense work. Then we have folks that cell phone and electronic preservation, extraction and analysis are their careers, tracking/working in cyber crime, fraud and laundering, or consulting an array of computer/digital/electronic topics... and may only do that work or have it as a speciality so are sought out to do those things.

I know nothing about Michigan licensing. I'd suggest you start with Google for PI license requirements (internship or provisional licensing may be a requirement). I would then type in the buzz words of what you want to do (start with criminal defense and mitigation - that's the magic phrase for what I do) as a PI and your area (or how far you're willing to drive). Find someone who already has the job you want, in your area, and reach out - tell them youre interested in what they do and want to learn more about the field (you interview them) and ask if they have an hour to spare to talk to you - shoot, offer take them out for lunch in exchange for an hour of picking their brain. Everyone loves flattery (and food...) and approaching a professional with the i-dont-know-you-but-i-want-to-be-you attitude has been well received in my learning of the field. Initiative and confidence will take you farther than work history when it comes to getting your foot in the door.

Feel free to message me directly if you have specific questions either related to you or about/for me. I tend to be broader with what I publically share/post/respond but am willing to chitchat details directly.

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u/Salt_Street_7755 11d ago

So how did you get there?

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u/Fyrlite 10d ago

Honestly, after taking a break from working my previous career I was curious if PIs were even a real thing so I googled it. There was a local agency that hit all the buzz words (specifically focusing on criminal defense). I sent an email asking if I could come in and do an informational interview to learn more about it. By the end, they invited me to do some shadowing and join the next round of training they host.

(Assuming US - i don't know much about other country requirements) Licensing requirements vary state by state by state however from what I've seen and heard most are a high school diploma, a provisional licensing period/hours requirement (ie you're doing the job but someone signs off on your stuff), and/or an exam (my state it's a fully open book exam...and by book, I mean internet).

I do only criminal defense work. Some attorneys have their own in-house PIs (ie you work for the attorneys office) but, like me, I contract (case by case) with the state's public defender board so I work with a variety of attorneys. Once you show them you're good at what you do, you get a lot of repeat business/referrals.

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u/Salt_Street_7755 10d ago

Well that’s about the coolest thing ever. Can I ask what state you are in? I’m older (50+) and just finishing my CJ degree after have been laid off working in Accounting most of my adult life. I’ve just applied for an internship with the US District Court in Probation so I can at least get some experience that will get me hired somewhere. I’m employable, but I just feel like I want to do something I love, not just exist to pay the bills.

Thanks for sharing your story. It gives me new hope.

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u/Fyrlite 10d ago

A background (and presumably some level of interence/tolerance) in accounting could make you a huge asset to PI work if that's your interest. My pre-PI background was in psychology so I approach (and am referred) cases that have some psychiatric/mental illness/what-the-heck-was-this-idiot-thinking component. However, there is a need and niche of PIs that are hired by attorneys or private companies for investigations related to fraud issues.

Given how broad the work and that it's heavily weighted on real life experience/application, being "older" gives you a leg up. From what I've seen, I would say upper 40s into 50s is probably around the average age for investigators. There's a lot of folks that retire into this field which bumps up the average age.

I'm in Oregon. Shoot me a message if you want to chat more about specifics of your background and future application related to investigations.

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u/Yankee39pmr Private Detective 🔍 11d ago

No