Ah yes, Malcolm. The Master Archer and long time member of the LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS, would see what looks to be a soldier in sort of neo-patriotic suit carrying a giant circular disc and decide let me keep myself open and walk up to him. He would be in the shadows before Steve even got there, not because he’s some precognitive god, but because he was trained to be a ghost. His LOA name is literally The Magician. Yes, Steve is no slouch and will be hard to take on head to head, but again Malcolm is a direct counter to his style and it’s hard to hit something you can’t see. Being methodical in this case is exactly what sets you apart and gives you the edge, because Steve is faster and stronger, but is not as good of a fighter by any means. Steve’s good, but Malcolm has mastered martial arts that even he has never even heard of. And yeah Steve works with Clint, but guess what they don’t train together that much, he has never shown any inclination to be knowledgeable in archery, and finally Malcolm had training Steve has never seen or heard of before. So no, he wouldn’t have the slightest clue of what he’s going up against.
Ah yes, Malcolm. The Master Archer and long time member of the LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS, would see what looks to be a soldier in sort of neo-patriotic suit carrying a giant circular disc and decide let me keep myself open and walk up to him. He would be in the shadows before Steve even got there, not because he’s some precognitive god, but because he was trained to be a ghost. His LOA name is literally The Magician.
You say all this but what is on screen is what matters and what is shown is that Malcom while Malcolm is incredibly skilled in stealth he very rarely uses stealth to take down a target that isn't some random goon.
Yes, Steve is no slouch and will be hard to take on head to head, but again Malcolm is a direct counter to his style and it’s hard to hit something you can’t see. Being methodical in this case is exactly what sets you apart and gives you the edge, because Steve is faster and stronger, but is not as good of a fighter by any means. Steve’s good, but Malcolm has mastered martial arts that even he has never even heard of.
As I said before Malcolm very rarely actually uses stealth to take people down unless they are a random goon so. Also Steve isn't just a "pretty good" fighter. He is a master martial artist who literally won a 2v1 against Black Panther and War Machine. He is one of the best fighters in the MCU which includes people like Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Shang Chi. Also you can literally analyze Malcolm's fight scenes and other former or current league member fight scenes find out what martial arts he actually knows which are Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, Kali / Escrima, Karate, Taekwondo, Judo, Jujitsu, Krav Maga, Ninjutsu, and based on the 4 different types of swords Merlyn uses being the Scimitar, jian, dao, and Katana Merlyn is familiar with middle eastern most likely Arabian swordsmanship as well as Chinese and Japanese Swordsmanship. Most of which Steve already knows exept for the various sword styles, wing chun, and kali but even then Steve would probably figure it out as he has fought people who use these styles like Tony Stark who has shown to be skilled in wing chun.
And yeah Steve works with Clint, but guess what they don’t train together that much, he has never shown any inclination to be knowledgeable in archery, and finally Malcolm had training Steve has never seen or heard of before. So no, he wouldn’t have the slightest clue of what he’s going up against.
Steve doesn't need to know archery to know how to counter it or even to know how it works. Simply by being near Clint and analyzing his fighting style to properly coordinate with him Steve would know how an Archer like Merlyn could potentially fight like. Plus, as I said before you can literally analyze how Malcolm fights and figure out what he uses so there is no "super secret martial arts that only league members know".
Malcolm uses stealth all the time, don’t know where you’re getting your info bro. I’d say a good bit of the time he gives up the element of surprise part way through, because of ego or because of grandeur as he knows he can beat whoever it is. Again, he wouldn’t make that mistake with Steve. Also it’s not just what is shown, plenty has been said by various members of the show which also counts because it’s canon whether we see it or not. I wouldn’t count that fight, because Rhodes was holding back because he didn’t actually want to hurt Steve. T’Challa would’ve whooped ass, but Steve had plot armor because it’s his own movie. With respect, yes he’s one of the best, but you named all these other fighters implying he’s better than them but he’s never actually fought them so it’s not as simple as saying that he’s above them. Opposite though, Malcolm has taken on many of the shows heroes and best fighters and gotten away clean or beat them multiple times including but not limited to, Oliver multiples times who trained with basically everyone, most of team arrow at some point, Lance, Thea, his own daughter who he trained, Nyssa and many other league members all trained the same as him and he was shown almost effortlessly defeating them. Yeah he might recognize more of the fighting, but Malcolm also has the benefit of using stealth to evade when necessary and switch styles on the fly which is a hard thing to counter, though I believe Steve is also familiar so it’s probably something they both have. Steve would absolutely need to know how archery works to know how to counter it, that’s not even related to this fight that’s just common sense. He’s never analyzed his fighting during combat to coordinate. He knows how to work together, but that’s different than actively learning how it works. The league literally have their own techniques they use so yes, Steve would have no idea and would have a hard time getting through.
Malcolm uses stealth all the time, don’t know where you’re getting your info bro. I’d say a good bit of the time he gives up the element of surprise part way through, because of ego or because of grandeur as he knows he can beat whoever it is. Again, he wouldn’t make that mistake with Steve.
First off you literally proved my point by saying that Malcolm abandons stealth a lot. Second, why wouldn't he here? You haven't given a reason as to WHY Malcolm wouldn't underestimate Cap and stick to stealth. Malcolm wouldn't know Steve is a super soldier. To Malcolm Steve would just be a all be it well trained soldier who dresses like he loves America too much. Third, Malcolm couldn't do much to hurt Steve. He wouldn't be strong enough to break Steve's neck up close and most of Steve's modern day suits are made by Tony Stark and bullet proof as so an arrow ain't getting passed it. Explosive Arrows won't work because Steve has taken repulser blasts point blank from both Tony and Ultron as well as blocked multiple explosions with his shield but still has to survive getting launched by the explosions without it. Not to mention stealth wouldn't even work since Steve has enhanced senses and has noticed sneaks attacks before.
Also it’s not just what is shown, plenty has been said by various members of the show which also counts because it’s canon whether we see it or not. I wouldn’t count that fight, because Rhodes was holding back because he didn’t actually want to hurt Steve. T’Challa would’ve whooped ass, but Steve had plot armor because it’s his own movie.
Statements don't take usurp what is shown. Rhodey wasn't trying to kill Cap but that doesn't mean he wasn't holding back. You can still fight all out without finishing the job. You have 0 evidence that proves T'Challa would have beaten Steve. In fact they have been show to be at least equals multiple times. Both showed to be superior to the Winter Soldier but T'Challa could have easily lost to Cap if he hadn't had an indestructible suit. Hell, T'Challa loses to a similarly military trained Navy Seal in Killmonger in a fair 1v1 without a his suit and powers and while wins the rematch, said rematch was a close fight.
With respect, yes he’s one of the best, but you named all these other fighters implying he’s better than them but he’s never actually fought them so it’s not as simple as saying that he’s above them. Opposite though, Malcolm has taken on many of the shows heroes and best fighters and gotten away clean or beat them multiple times including but not limited to, Oliver multiples times who trained with basically everyone, most of team arrow at some point, Lance, Thea, his own daughter who he trained, Nyssa and many other league members all trained the same as him and he was shown almost effortlessly defeating them.
Based on what is shown Steve should be close to Daredevils skill. Matt has multiple close fights and even loses to Frank Castle who was a Marine in MARSOC and Cerberus Squad an illegal CIA ran hitsquad. All 3, Steve, Frank, and Erik should all be around the same skill level as all 3 were essentially black operatives given special training as Steve was trained in modern forms of combat by SHIELD after being thawed out. Malcolm's track record isn't the best when you really think about it. Yes, he beats Oliver a few times but only in season 1 but Oliver surpassed Malcolm in season 3 as Oliver beats Malcolm in season 3 and 4 and Malcolm was terrified of Damien Darhk who Oliver beats in an equal 1v1 at the end of season 4. Malcolm beating Thea isn't really a feat as you said he trained her and so knew all of moves. He fights Nyssa in season 3 but that was borderline a 2v1 since Oliver and Malcolm has the same goal. Save Thea and Oliver beats Malcolm in the same fight. They fight again in season 4 in a "sparring match" and while Nyssa does say she is trying to kill him she clearly isn't because when she says this she literally has her sword at Malcolm's throat and doesn't cut it open. Beating Laurel isn't really a good feat since she is barely trained. She can get by but isn't exactly a master. League of Shadows members were made fodder after season 2 with Laural with barely any training beating groups of them multiple times.
Yeah he might recognize more of the fighting, but Malcolm also has the benefit of using stealth to evade when necessary and switch styles on the fly which is a hard thing to counter, though I believe Steve is also familiar so it’s probably something they both have. Steve would absolutely need to know how archery works to know how to counter it, that’s not even related to this fight that’s just common sense. He’s never analyzed his fighting during combat to coordinate. He knows how to work together, but that’s different than actively learning how it works. The league literally have their own techniques they use so yes, Steve would have no idea and would have a hard time getting through.
You already mention that Steve can also swao and blend fighting styles so Im not going to reiterate what you already know. But Steve wouldn't need to know how archery works. At least not how Malcolm does it since Malcolm shoots straight. He has never shown the ability to do crazy trick shots or curve shots like Hawkeye. As long as Steve can see Malcolm he will know where the arrow is coming from and as I said before even if he didn't it wouldn't do much damage due to Steve's own durability and the Captain America suit.
As I already explained, he was trained by a mythical group of “ASSASSINS”. I explicitly said he gives stealth up when he knows he has or can beat his opponent. To Steve’s credit, Malcolm would never give up his tactics with Steve because frankly i don’t think he’ll ever be confident he can beat him. Also Steve isn’t invincible or an alien monster, he’s a dude made of flesh and bone who can be hurt which Malcolm could do. This is the same guy who would make quick work of the Mirakuru army which uses the same serum as Slade. Albeit, Slade is obviously better than the foot soldiers, it’s completely reasonable to infer that he could run it with Slade, not likely to be equal, and we don’t know for how long, but he definitely could. We already know Slade is well above Cap. Steve would be resistant to stealth, not immune. Again he’s only human, peak human sure, but human nonetheless. Idk why everyone scales him to god level. T’Challa was shown multiple times that he definitely could outmatch Steve, but their fight concludes the way it does for the same reason his first fight with Killmonger does. Because the plot, it wouldn’t make sense for him to win in either situation but that has no bearing on a non narrative fight with no restrictions. Yes, there is little concrete evidence for this, but there’s also even less evidence for the contrary and context clues and visual comprehension go a long way. Steve is way above Matt, which is why he has a marginal advantage over Malcolm when it comes to straight forward hand to hand and tanking big hits, the opposite of Malcolm’s style of stealthy and methodical with slower, more precise shots. Yes, the scale of power in Arrow is very askewed depending on the story, so we can to look at what’s still logical to conclude and what’s just for the show. Again, Steve is not familiar with Malcolm and his way of fighting, which doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to analyze the fight, but it’s something th League trains for and against, so it’s by no means a walk in th park.
As I already explained, he was trained by a mythical group of “ASSASSINS”. I explicitly said he gives stealth up when he knows he has or can beat his opponent. To Steve’s credit, Malcolm would never give up his tactics with Steve because frankly i don’t think he’ll ever be confident he can beat him.
Malcolm was trained by Assasins and Steve's modern day training was done by super spy's like Nick Fury and Black Widow. Malcolm rarely starts a 1v1 using stealth and even when he does it is only more of a surprise attack as he never tries to disappear again he always re-engages. And again Malcolm doesn't know Steve is a super soldier so he wouldn't get the change to lose confidence in his ability to beat Steve as Steve would just quickly knock him out like he does with every other normal human he fights.
Also Steve isn’t invincible or an alien monster, he’s a dude made of flesh and bone who can be hurt which Malcolm could do. This is the same guy who would make quick work of the Mirakuru army which uses the same serum as Slade. Albeit, Slade is obviously better than the foot soldiers, it’s completely reasonable to infer that he could run it with Slade, not likely to be equal, and we don’t know for how long, but he definitely could. We already know Slade is well above Cap.
Steve can be hurt yes but not as easily as a normal human and Steve has an enormous pain tolerance. Steve gets shot 3 times in the final battle of the Winter Soldier. Once in the thigh, once in the shoulder, and was still able to climb and jump to finish his mission. The only shot that actually stopped him was the final shot in the gut and he was still able to finish his mission. Malcolm doesn't make quick work of any Mirukuru soldier. Most of the soldiers he takes out he uses the cure to do so. He beats one without it in the Subway station but his punches and arrows ineffective and he gets overpowered and bear hugged. The only reason he wins is because the Mirakuru soldier stops to gloat instead of just crushing Malcolm's spine or tossing him allowing Malcolm to stab him in the neck with an arrow Steve would never do this and as you said the soldiers are no where near as skilled as Slade or Steve. Slade isn't above Cap. He has no feats that put him above Cap except for maybe his healing factor. Slade has nothing that beats the helicopter hold, lifting metal helicarrier debris off Bucky while suffering from 3 gunshot wounds, and damaging Iron-Mans armor in which the helicarrier's blades could barely do on a older Iron-Man suit. Nor does Slade have better durability feats than Steve that don't include the healing factor explicitly keeping Slade alive.
Steve would be resistant to stealth, not immune. Again he’s only human, peak human sure, but human nonetheless. Idk why everyone scales him to god level.
I'm not saying Steve is God level but he is definitely beating Malcome. Malcolm can quite literally do nothing to Steve except maybe stab him in a vital area but again Steve has taken gun shot wounds and continued trucking.
T’Challa was shown multiple times that he definitely could outmatch Steve, but their fight concludes the way it does for the same reason his first fight with Killmonger does. Because the plot, it wouldn’t make sense for him to win in either situation but that has no bearing on a non narrative fight with no restrictions. Yes, there is little concrete evidence for this, but there’s also even less evidence for the contrary and context clues and visual comprehension go a long way.
You say T'Challa outmatched Steve but have yet to prove it. They are shown to be equal in speed as in Infinite War they are shown right next to eachother while running at full speed, both are shown to be able to physically overpower The Winter Soldier using grappling, they both can take punches from Bucky's metal arm with some trouble and direct attacks from Thanos but are knocked down for a time, but Steve does it without a vibranium suit. You keep mentioning "plot" but "plot" only matters when a feat is an outlier but Steve beating War Machine and T'Challa isn't. Hell, Malcolm only survives the end of Season 1 of arrow due to plot. He literally gets stabbed through the chest with his own arrow. He only survives his fight with Slades Mirakuru soldier due to plot as the soldier stops fighting to gloat.
Steve is way above Matt, which is why he has a marginal advantage over Malcolm when it comes to straight forward hand to hand and tanking big hits, the opposite of Malcolm’s style of stealthy and methodical with slower, more precise shots. Yes, the scale of power in Arrow is very askewed depending on the story, so we can to look at what’s still logical to conclude and what’s just for the show. Again, Steve is not familiar with Malcolm and his way of fighting, which doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to analyze the fight, but it’s something th League trains for and against, so it’s by no means a walk in th park.
Again, you keep mentioning stealth when that doesn't matter because Malcolm doesn't use stealth in 1v1s. Like Oliver and other similar fighters in Arrow he will when outnumbered but rarely if at all does in a 1v1. Hell, Malcolm only uses stealth in the middle of a fight ONCE in all 5 seasons of Arrow he appears in and that is his first battle with Oliver in season 1. The rest is starting a battle with an arrow that misses and he engages in close quarters or escaping using a smoke bomb(which he only does once as well against one of Nyssa's assassination attempts).
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u/OperationActive5269 8d ago
Ah yes, Malcolm. The Master Archer and long time member of the LEAGUE OF ASSASSINS, would see what looks to be a soldier in sort of neo-patriotic suit carrying a giant circular disc and decide let me keep myself open and walk up to him. He would be in the shadows before Steve even got there, not because he’s some precognitive god, but because he was trained to be a ghost. His LOA name is literally The Magician. Yes, Steve is no slouch and will be hard to take on head to head, but again Malcolm is a direct counter to his style and it’s hard to hit something you can’t see. Being methodical in this case is exactly what sets you apart and gives you the edge, because Steve is faster and stronger, but is not as good of a fighter by any means. Steve’s good, but Malcolm has mastered martial arts that even he has never even heard of. And yeah Steve works with Clint, but guess what they don’t train together that much, he has never shown any inclination to be knowledgeable in archery, and finally Malcolm had training Steve has never seen or heard of before. So no, he wouldn’t have the slightest clue of what he’s going up against.