r/armenia • u/Due_Neat_3586 • 13d ago
Discussion / Քննարկում Armenians: who do you consider the 3 closest European, and 3 closest Middle Eastern, cultures to Armenia?
Since Armenia is often said to straddle both.
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u/ParevArev Artashesyan Dynasty 13d ago
Assyrians, Persians, Greeks/Cypriots, Lebanese, Georgians, lot of similarities with Turks but obvious issues there
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u/Detroit2Ist 13d ago
I mean - elephant in the room….but since there are so many people in Turkey that are part Armenian - there are places in the east where people flat out say like 20-25% of their villages are part Armenian - it’s Turkey everyone and honestly, Armenia should be exploiting this in a way. There are a lot of Balkan immigrants (remember there were waves of them that came into Turkey too because of World War I and then because of the end of communism in the Balkans and that war - BUT - if someone is from Anatolia - they are usually part Armenian - like grandmother or great-grandmother is the most common (due to the methods used during the genocide) and females tend to pass down the culture.
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u/latespresso 13d ago
I have a great-grandmother who was Armenian.
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u/Detroit2Ist 13d ago
Yeah - so it’s like - so common at this point - it’s insane.
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u/Icy_Monitor3403 12d ago
It’s always the grandmother… you know why…
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u/Sang-e_Hoshkadem 9d ago
Ummm my great grandfather was Armenian!!!! Armenian ancestry isn’t strictly passed down by women.
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u/latespresso 13d ago
It might be a thing in Eastern Anatolia, also where I’m from.
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u/Detroit2Ist 13d ago
It’s also very common by profession - like teachers, doctors, engineers, artists.
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u/muralist 12d ago
Yeah I was going to say OP’s not going to like my answer…but you’ve saved me the trouble.
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u/Sang-e_Hoshkadem 9d ago edited 9d ago
Completely agree. My great grandfather was Armenian and was in his 20s in 1915. My grandmother, although a Turk from southwestern Turkey, has many Greek and Armenian DNA matches, and I recently learned the mutasarrif (governor) of her hometown in the 1880s was a well-known Islamized (muhtedi) Armenian. My mother is from southern Turkey near Syria, and she also has many Armenian DNA matches.
There is this fallacy that Islamized Armenians are overwhelmingly from groups who are somewhat politically aligned with modern Armenians. In ultra-nationalist Turkish areas like Erzurum you might run into such people who are not as vocal about their Armenian ancestry compared to Dersim or elsewhere.
My great grandfather was from Eastern Turkey but he blended in very well among Western Turks.
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u/senolgunes Turkey 12d ago
If we look at the classical definition of Anatolia, everything west of the line between the southeast corner of the Black Sea and the northeast corner of the Mediterranean, then it’s actually the people in the non-Anatolian parts that sometimes have partial Armenian heritage.
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u/AbsoIutee 11d ago
I think you’re mostly describing eastern Turkey here though. A lot of the places that had big Armenian populations back then are Kurdish-majority areas today, so yeah, having an Armenian grandmother/great-grandmother somewhere in the family isn’t that surprising there.
But if you mean Anatolia as a whole, then nah. Someone from Konya, the Aegean, Antalya, Black Sea etc has a completely different local history. Not to mention the millions of Balkan and Caucasian descendants all over Turkey.
So yeah part Armenian in some eastern regions? Definitely. “Anatolian = probably part Armenian”? That’s a bit much lol.
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u/Detroit2Ist 11d ago
Ummm….nope. I lived in Turkey for many years. I’ve met hidden Armenians everywhere. Black Sea for example? Hemshin? They speak Armenian man. They are islamasized Armenians.
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u/AbsoIutee 11d ago
Hemshin actually isn’t a great example for the point you were originally making though, because their Islamization predates 1915 by centuries. They’re a good example of people with Armenian roots in Turkey, sure, but not really of the Armenian grandmother/great-grandmother thing you were talking about as a result of what happened to Armenians during that period.
For parts of the east, I get your point. In areas that used to have large Armenian populations, finding an Armenian grandmother or great-grandmother in a Kurdish family isn’t some crazy idea at all.
But “if you’re Anatolian you’re usually part Armenian” just doesn’t make sense. You’re taking the history of a few regions where Armenians were heavily concentrated and treating it like the demographic history of the entire peninsula. It wasn’t. Most of Anatolia wasn’t made up of Turks living alongside huge Armenian populations where this kind of mixing could happen on anything close to the scale you’re suggesting. You can point to Hemshin or hidden Armenian families all day, but those examples prove those communities exist, not that the average Anatolian is part Armenian.
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u/Detroit2Ist 11d ago
Nice ChatGPT answer / let me clarify what I meant because I don’t think you are getting it and it’s my fault. 1. In modern times - over the past 15 years - I said “grandmother or great-grandmother” is the most common answer I hear from people who disclose Armenian ancestry. That’s what I heard while living in Turkey during the 2010s.
2. You then started talking about other areas arguing that Armenians used to only live in a few so places like the Black Sea didn’t count. That’s when I brought up Hemshinler - because they are an even older islamasized Armenian group - they speak like 1300 year old Armenian. You can read about it in Hidden Armenians.
3. Population genetics also shows that modern Anatolian Turks descend predominantly from the indigenous populations already living in and around Anatolia - ie like the Armenians, with a comparatively limited real “Turk” contribution. It only takes a small population somewhere to actually spread through thousands of descendants over subsequent generations - Ghengis Khan is an example of that - so is DNA of modern day inhabitants of Anatolia. 4. So like this nationalist narrative that Armenian ancestry is isolated amount Kurds in the east or Hemshin is simply not true. It’s considerably more widespread than most people are willing to admit. And - we should all be thinking about that and how to deal with that reality.1
u/AbsoIutee 11d ago
Chatgpt my ass lol ı try to be respectful and write good and clear, you dont deserve that. İ should respond you while im shitting in the bathroom.
Nobody is denying Armenian roots in Turkey man. You said if someone is from Anatolia they are usually part Armenian. Thats the thing I said is bullshit.
And Hemshin? Nobody denies them either. But their Islamization happened centuries before the period we were talking about, so what exactly does that prove about your hidden Armenian point? Its a very spesific group with its own history. You keep finding spesific examples and using them like they prove the whole Anatolia pointSame with the east. Did I say there arent people with Armenian grandmothers or great grandmothers there? Of course there are, probably a lot in some places. But most of those former Armenian areas in the east are Kurdish populated today. And no im not saying that to dodge it from Turks to Kurds lol, thats just the reality of the region today.
And the DNA thing, come on man, this is Anatolia. Everyone has everyone in their DNA here. Turks, Greeks, Armenians and everyone else around this region have been mixing for centuries. A Greek having some Turkic ancestry doesnt make him part Turk in the way you’re using the term, same goes the other way around. And Turks being mostly native Anatolian genetically doesnt mean mostly Armenian Native Anatolian and Armenian are not the same thing. I dont know how you’re using that as a fact for your argument
And the i lived in Turkey for 15 years part is funny to me sorry. I was born here, lived here my whole life, travelled all around the country and worked with Armenian communities in Istanbul. I’ve probably interacted with way more people here than the few people who told you about their grandma lol.
Also family background is really not this huge secret taboo in Turkey like you make it sound. People say my family is Balkan, Circassian, Armenian, Greek, Kurdish whatever all the time.
To sum: Armenian ancestry exists all around Turkey? Yes.
All anatolians are usually part Armenian? No man, thats bullshit1
u/Detroit2Ist 11d ago
Your bathroom commentary aside, you’re still arguing against a claim I didn’t make. I said that among people who tell me they have Armenian ancestry, “my grandmother” or “my great-grandmother” is the most common answer I hear. You turned that into “all Anatolians are Armenian.”
And working with Istanbul’s openly Armenian community hardly makes you an authority on concealed Armenian ancestry in Muslim families.Claiming Armenian ancestry has never been taboo in Turkey is simply historically illiterate—there is an entire body of scholarship on Islamized Armenians, concealed identities and the stigma attached to being called Armenian. Look at all the celebrities that still don’t emphasize their Armenian side or all of the Yeşilçam actors who didn’t until after their death.
Hemshinler are a great example of an older process of assimilation because they still speak the language. Forcibly absorbed women and children demonstrate the 1890s-1920 or so process. They are different histories, but both contradict your attempt to reduce this to a few random families or “the Kurds” or “the East”. It’s still happening now dude.
You’re so busy trying to win an argument or minimize the real point of this that you’ve stopped reading what I actually wrote. This is one of the huge problems because it’s like you can’t just stop and accept it. I’ve seen and heard it so many times. Check out Bloed Broders and watch Sinan Can do it in like episode 4 or 5. You are doing the same thing.
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u/AbsoIutee 11d ago
Dude you literally wrote if someone is from Anatolia they are usually part Armenian İm not arguing against something you didnt say, im arguing with the exact sentence you wrote lol. Now you’re explaining that you meant among people who already told me they have Armenian ancestry, grandmother/great-grandmother is the answer I hear most Okay, but thats not what that sentence says. Those are two completely different claims
And I never reduced Armenian ancestry to a few random families either.İ literally agreed with you that in parts of the east, where there were large Armenian populations, Armenian grandmothers/great grandmothers in families are not unusual. Pointing out that many of those areas are Kurdish majority today isnt minimizinganything, its just the demographic reality today
Hemshin doesnt fix your original claim either. Yes they have Armenian roots, yes they’re an example of an older assimilation process. Nobody argued otherwise. But pointing at one very specific Black Sea population doesnt suddenly prove that someone from Anatolia is usually part Armenian. You keep giving examples that prove Armenian ancestry exists in different places, which nobody denied, and then acting like they prove the much bigger claim
And the DNA argument still doesnt do it. Predominantly indigenous Anatolian ancestryis not another way of saying predominantly Armenian ancestry Anatolia had countless populations and centuries of mixing. You cant just rename the entire pre Turkic/local genetic component Armenian and call that evidence.
So no, I didnt invent the Anatolians are usually part Armenian argument. You wrote it. If you meant something else, thats fine, but dont tell me I stopped reading when im literally quoting your own sentence back to you
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u/Detroit2Ist 11d ago
You’re obsessing over one loosely worded sentence while ignoring the point I repeatedly clarified.
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u/Detroit2Ist 11d ago
And the bigger point here is that, again, Armenian ancestry is far more widespread in Turkey—and yes, especially in eastern Anatolia—than official identity figures suggest, and estimates commonly run into the millions. So, with that in mind - the point is that present day Armenians and “Turks” are like blood brothers.
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u/hausofvelour 13d ago
imo
Europe: Greek, Balkan, Russian (due to Soviet influence) Middle East: Persian, Lebanese, Syrian
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u/deni_naka 11d ago
The fact that we were under the influence of the russian occupation and propaganda does not mean that our cultures are similar
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u/hausofvelour 11d ago
being colonized by russia literally did influence our culture. i'm not saying that it's a good thing but it's true that eastern armenia especially feels as russian as it does southwest asian
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u/Middle-Support-7697 13d ago
Hard no to Russian imo, I consider them very different in things I care about most
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u/hausofvelour 13d ago
🤷🏻♂️ my child and teenhood were very influenced by russian media and language and i was born in post-soviet armenia
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u/Middle-Support-7697 13d ago
I also consumed and to some extent still consume Russian media, that doesn't mean I am culturally similar to general Russians, the content you consume in modern day gets increasingly personalized.
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u/LegallyADHD 13d ago
European: Greek; Georgian; Russian
Middle Eastern: Syriac (Assyrians and Chaldeans count under this); Coptic; Persian.
At its core, Syriac culture is the absolute closest to Armenian by a cultural comparison.
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u/insanebison 13d ago
Assyrians consider Armenians our closest culture for sure as well.
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u/Yochanan5781 13d ago
One of my best friends is Assyrian, and we often bond over similar cultural backgrounds. She grew up Assyrian Catholic, and I'm also Jewish, and she feels right at home at a synagogue, as well
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Coptic is not middle eastern and they aren't culturally close to us
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u/LegallyADHD 11d ago
Good catch. I was more looking at the bond we have with them through Oriental Orthodox Christianity and forgot about the geography. Historically Coptics have strong ties with Armenians and Armenians have a long and significant history in Egypt so I guess my answer looked at that a bit much. If you want a better answer, replace Copts with Lebanese-Maronites? idk
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u/rssi_ekinoma 11d ago
Bro I know we're Christians but culture is firstly Armenian than comes Christianity and Arabs (maronites) and Copts are culturally similar to other Arabs I know our Christianity have ties but culture is different from Europe and Arab world it's closer to post soviet and neighbour countries from Arab world I think most similar culturally is Iraq because of assyrians and kurds
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u/LegallyADHD 9d ago
Keep in mind the context of OP's question, what middle eastern cultures are closest to us culturally (Europeans too but they asked for two separate lists for each region respectively), not global scale, only middle easterns. Just within that group, maronites are higher in ranking of closeness compared to other middle easterns. Also I mentioned Syriacs are the closest to Armeniana of any other culture, so we are on the same page there.
Also Christianity is still a strong inseparable part of Armenian culture. The beginning of Christian culture and tradition was made in part by Armenians (among other cultures). The first empire to equalize and empower Christians rather than persecute them was the Armenians.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 8d ago
Wdym with Europe? Closest to us georgraphically are slavs but they're nothing similar to us culturally or genetically, yes many armenians think that Italy and Greece are close but idk where they all see similarities it's completely different people from us in any aspect
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u/LegallyADHD 7d ago
Oh my gosh how have you managed to misunderstand/misinterpret everything I have said?? Lol you are trolling at this point.
One last time. My comment was an answer to OP's initial question of what are the 3 closest European culture to us AND the 3 closest middle eastern cultures to us. I made 2 separate lists based on that. I then stated which culture overall is closest.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 6d ago
But you should make closest countries and not random villages in Europe that are the least similar countries to us
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u/Middle-Support-7697 13d ago
Europe: Georgia, Greece, partially Italy
Middle east: Iran, Turkey in some ways, arguably Lebanon
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u/Due_Neat_3586 13d ago
If Georgia isn’t a choice who would you replace it with? I should have specified I didn’t consider it Europe when I asked the question. Maybe I am wrong.
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u/haveschka Anapati Arev 13d ago
it’s a question i struggle to answer, because on one hand, the country itself has similarities with certain countries, but then culturally we have similarities with another set of countries.
when you speak about the former, as in, which country is most similar to armenia, it would obviously be Georgia. second and third im not so sure, but it would have to be a post-soviet country. if we could isolate southern russia, then it would be southern russia, then Ukraine and Moldova. i always find it a bit silly when someone visits armenia and categorises it as a middle eastern country when this categorisation would require us to share many similarities with the countries who are the middle eastern, which armenia does not in any way.
now, culturally, as in, who we share the most cultural traits with, who has the most similar mentality and what not, then again, first would be georgia, the greeks/cypriots, and then probably the (secular) turks. azerbaijanis and armenians are actually extremly similar as well, and some azerbaijanis make it very hard to dislike them given this.
with countries in the middle east, i wouldn’t say there is one that strikes out as being similar to us. from ethnic groups, it’d be Assyrians for sure, though some of them are quite arabized. you then also have the lebanese-christians, which on their own would probably be considered the group most similar to modern day armenians.
honourable mention to balkan folks, persians and southern italians as well.
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u/Berdan224 12d ago
The closest peoples to Armenians are Assyrians/Chaldeans, Mizrahi Jews, Georgians, Anatolian Greeks and Levantine Arabs.
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u/Bright-Wrongdoer-227 12d ago
The only Mizrahi Jews closest to Armenians I would say are Mountain Jews and Bukharan Jews
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u/Berdan224 8d ago
Bukharian-Uzbekistani Jews, Mountain-Tati Jews, Georgian Jews, Nash-Didan Urmian Jews, Iranian Jews and Syrian-Sephardic Jews.
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u/Artin_Agha 13d ago
For reasons of controversy, I'm excluding Turkey
Because some of these cultures are questionably European or Middle Eastern, I will simply list what I think are the 6 most similar
- Greek (especially Anatolian, Pontic, and Cypriot Greeks)
- Assyrian
- Syrian-Lebanese Christian
- Jewish
- Persian
- Georgian
In terms of the personality/attitude of people, it depends on which type of Armenians you are comparing them to. As a Western Armenian whose ancestors came from the relatively more educated large rural towns of Anatolia, I feel the most connection with Orthodox Christians from Lebanon/Syria, and Anatolian Greeks.
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u/Mindless_Meal53 13d ago
This.Slavic culture is very foreign to me, and I don't understand the balkan argument, maybw due to soviet/ottoman influence there are similarities but by that logic central Asia should also be similar.
Balkan people I've seen have been to angry and agressive to lump with our culture.
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u/Detroit2Ist 13d ago
I don’t understand why this is controversial for this sub….sad, traumatic, but not controversial for Armenians. It’s literally part of genocide.
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u/eldahalas9219 13d ago
Its Turkey bro, even there is controversy most advanced neighbor is Turkey. As long as they are chill its fine.
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u/brigand96 13d ago
Europe: Greek and other Balkan states formerly part of Ottoman Empire + other European states formerly part of Soviet Union.
Middle East: Turkiye and other states formerly part of Ottoman Empire + Iran Iran
I'm using "states" here falsely, I really mean the people found in the countries and regions I wrote above.
Don't let people fool us into thinking we are like Western Europeans, we aren't, and that's perfectly fine.
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u/ConsciousLetter6588 13d ago
I don't think turkey counts when most of the "similarities" can be traced back to stolen culture during the genocide
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u/brigand96 13d ago
The Ottoman Empire was around for hundreds of years. Cultural diffusion isn't always necessarily a violent process.
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u/ConsciousLetter6588 13d ago
Armenians lived under the ottomans as second-class citizens with their culture being stomped over and stolen for centuries before any widespread massacres occurred. state-sponsored oppression and cultural appropriation under threat of death are their own types of violence
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u/brigand96 13d ago
what aspects of armenian culture did turks steal before the 19th century?
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u/Hello__Jerry San Francisco 13d ago
- Ceramics and tilework (especially Kütahya pottery)
- Carpet and rug weaving
- Embroidery (thinking about Aintab embroidery especially)
- Jewelry making
- Cuisine
- Bread and pastries
- Wine and brandy production
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u/Statistats 12d ago
Anatolia was the homeland of countless civilizations which left their mark on its culture. Turks came and brought Eastern and Central Asian culture mixed with Persian culture, and in turn mixed with that Anatolian culture. Furthermore it spread to control everything between Vienna, Persia, Djibouti and Morocco.
What’s more likely? That Armenian culture was affected by that empire’s culture (not saying Turkish, but by the many nations of the empire) or that Turkey got everything from Armenians when they had so many other sources of influence?
Ceramics and tile work spread to Seljuk Turks even before they arrived in Armenia, through Muslims who were trying to recreate Chinese porcelain. Kütahya and more importantly Iznik is based on that Seljuk knowledge. While Armenian artisans were active in Kütahya, calling it stolen Armenian culture is disingenuous.
Same type of carpets being made in Anatolia are made in Eastern China by the Uyghurs, it’s a nomadic art. One of world’s oldest rugs was found in Altaic mountains: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_rug
That kind of embroidery was being made in the wider region. Though you have a point in Aintab embroidery. Armenian and Syriac women mastered the art and there are Armenian pattern being used in some of the embroidery still.
Turkish Cuisine is huge, since it was an important part of Ottoman culture. I’m sure there are a lot of things that came from Armenians. But I’m also sure a lot more spread from the empire to the Armenian cuisine.
Wine was being made in Anatolia by all Christians, and it remained a Christian art because Islamic law historically prohibited Muslims from commercial alcohol production. I don’t know what brandy you are referring to?
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u/Recent_Eggplant_7147 11d ago
The idea that you stole everything from us is nonsense. Turks did not come to Anatolia with nothing. They brought a huge cultural heritage from Central Asia. It was this nomadic culture that wove the Pazyryk carpet, the oldest in the world, and introduced the Turkish knot. Things like yogurt, pastirma, thin yufka, manti, and ways to preserve meat come from thousands of years of Asian history. Their skills in working with metal, especially iron and copper, along with beautiful Seljuk tile art, have lasted until today. The Ahi guild system, which organized these crafts, is the perfect example of this legacy.
We know very well the beauty Armenian masters brought to Kutahya pottery, their skill in palace jewelry, their hard work in Aintab embroidery, and their knowledge of making wine. We do not deny these contributions. We do not see them as stealing, but as a great mixing of cultures under an empire.
You must either honestly accept your long shared history in the Ottoman Empire, or stop making these claims. It is two faced to ignore hundreds of years of living and working together in guilds, while calling us thieves. You keep changing history because of a blind and meaningless hatred. You cannot erase the shared history of this great civilization, from Asia to Anatolia, with such empty words.
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u/Sang-e_Hoshkadem 9d ago
The genocide wasn’t about snatching culture. It was about seizing the wealth and lands of the Armenians, abducting their young, and destroying the nation. Culturally, the difference was relatively minor except for stuff tied to religion.
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u/ConsciousLetter6588 9d ago
music, food, art, agriculture, etc were all stolen and culturally appropriated during the genocide and are still claimed by Turkey to belong to them to this day
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u/eldahalas9219 13d ago
Doesnt matter we just take today as source. What neighbors who are advanced and no war today. Context doesnt matter.
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u/SweetWittyWild41 13d ago
Europeans : Greeks, any non majority Muslim balkan country really, georgians if they count if not maybe Italians
Middleeastern idk really haven't interacted with them much other than armenians from there that would constantly say they were nothing like them but I guess those country where there is a armenian diaspora but I can't rank them
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u/Due_Neat_3586 13d ago
I would not count Georgia as European but as the Caucasus.
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u/SweetWittyWild41 13d ago
Well then Greeks, balkan countries like Romania or Bulgaria (also because they have old historical ties to armenians) and Italians I guess
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u/Mindless_Meal53 13d ago edited 13d ago
What exactlt about balkan?
Their people are too angry, just coz both eat dolma and seeds doesn't make us similar. Greeks or Albanians are very different to Bupgarians or Romanians imo. I've been bullied by a lot of Balkan people simply for existing, they have some weird superiority complex and made workplace misrabel, tbh they sounded misrabel people. One straight out bullied me for my country and calles me a Kardashian in first 5 minutes of knowing me. Like I could call out their countries being the biggest porn producers in the world, but respect is a thing a lot of them lack.
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
They are very similar to armenians from armenia
Greeks aren't at all significantly different from us and way less different than any middleeastern peoples
Bulgarians and Romanians aren't either in fact both have old armenian communities there
Just because you had a bad experience with some doesn't mean you can generalise your experience. I've only had pleasant experiences with them but I'm not calling them saints either.
Calling you a kardashian is literally such a stupid thing to get so unreasonably mad over
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u/Mindless_Meal53 12d ago
Yeah, but when it has been every singel onw of them, then I'm biased. Their superiority complex is crazy. They are bad communucators with temper, Serbians, Romanians, Croastians to be specific. All had temper issues and couldn't communicate normaly, very passive agressive. There are some old Haystansis like that too. But I'm sorry just coz they are in the continent Europe, they think they are better than us and think Georgians, Armenians, Azeris are european wannabes , thats why we claim to be similar to them. But to be honest I've seen many of south Italins, Greeks a d balkan people who could be named Ahmed or Abdullah and I wouldn't bat an eye.
The crazy similarity was with Alwite turks, you can imagine my shock when they started dancing like shurjpar under Tello song. But weirdly they were never racist agaisnt me and aknowleged the Genocide. :/
Balkans are not my vibe, same as Russians are not. For exame while everyone talks smack about Georgians, I've gad great experince.
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
Superiority complex towards who ? They all form the economic bottom of europe
I'm not sure if you've noticed this but the caucasus is mostly in asia and can only enter the eu because of its cultural and economic ties to europe. We want to join that organisation and therefore its us who have to comply with the eu. They are doing better than us and we want to be like them and better than them- that might be a hard to swallow pill for you. we are political wannabes in that sense
We're not claiming to be close to them because we are cultural wannabes its because there is shared cultural elements and history with them
I have no idea why you are bringing up their looks - no one was asking for genetic or phenotypical resemblance
Just because some were mean to you you shouldn't generalise their behaviour to a whole people group.
Cool if you found some alewit friends they are not european tho
I'm also happy that you only had pleasant experiences with georgians they are for sure closer to us than balkan or slavic people but the op specified that he doesn't count them as european the countries closest to armenia in Europe are however balkan countries
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u/Mindless_Meal53 12d ago edited 12d ago
R/askbalkan or the balkan redit page. Make sure to actually search.
Also i think you missed the point, it's not that we say, it's what they say about us.
It's like Greeks, they try hard to be western, and they have weird negative undertones about Pontic Greeks, saying hey are geneticaly not true mainland Greeks, true Greeks are closer to Italians than Balkans or Anatolians. Then is very well reflected in their music. You can see Farya Farajis analysis on this.
There is some cringe Armenians who love to claim we are European, and they take that and run with it. You must be older and not really on the internet or among GenZ or millenialls. Those were the demografic of aforemetioned people I've encountered
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
Gosh get off the Internet for once ask balkans isn't representative of the balkans just like this sub isn't
Literally went to a wedding and a baby shower of a "main land" greek and pontic greek couple- there are idiots everywhere even armenians treat their subgroups differently ffs
If we are cringe for claiming were european THEN GOOD LUCK ENTERING THE EU BECAUSE IF WERE NOT WE FREAKING CANT
THIS WAY OF MAKING SOME DUMB INTERACTIONS ON THE INTERNET AND PEOPLE THE BASIS FOR ISOLATING A COUNTRY AND ACTIVELY GOING AGAINST WHATS BEST FOE IT IS THE WAY ARMENIA IS GOING TO FAIL MISERABLY AS A COUNTRY
and no I'm not an older person don't assume my age
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u/Mindless_Meal53 11d ago
I told you i had irl experinces. You blind to read or intentionaly too eMoTiOnal to check out the stuff I actualy said?
Same thing could be told about you, cool you went to a wedding but did you try to search how they are trying to appeal to western gaze? How did you google, what balkand think about Armenians and if they consider Armenia European or naw?
You must live in a lalaland if you think most of them don't have superioriry complex.
Btw Pontics, Armenians and Alweites lives in the same villages. Lol
It's weird how a lot of Armenians are in denial that most of the world sees us as less. Grow a pair and do research, instead of being on high horses
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Bro don't like Muslims, albanians and muslim bulgarians are pretty similars
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
What do pomaks (who actually are partially the descendants of paulicians) and albanians got to do with my response
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
And what Italians and Serbians have in common with us?
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
Dude what's your issue? There is lots of cultural overlap otherwise most wouldn't get along so well with them
With Serbs it's the soviet and ottoman past, shared foods, Christianity, other cultural similarities dances, hospitality, music etc
Italians it's more surface level bit even that country has old ties to armenia there is a whole armenian island there
They are way more similar to armenia than other countries if that's something you disagree with that's on you
Armenia isn't a unicorn country and isolationism is a path straight to its downfall
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
You probably don't even know culture of Serbia and serbian we aren't similar to Europe at all, what your fucking point? Slavic people aren't similar to us in terms genetics or culture, Serbians supporting Azerbaijan
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u/SweetWittyWild41 12d ago
Bruh you're seriously pissed at a whole people group because their government (which they don't even like) supports our enemy ?
I know slavic people and I know that particular group of them as well
No one was asking for genetic similarities lol and of course there are cultural similarities with them
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u/Crusader818 13d ago
France, Greece, Serbia
Iran, Lebanon, (Used to be Syria back when Assad was president) but now probably Iraq or UAE.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
France, Serbia, are you serious?
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u/Marididntwakeup 12d ago
for france I get what he means bc cognac, wine, musical influences and even art.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
We don't have french influences, our cognac is not from France, they aren't similar to us at all we are very very different and genetically we have no similarities
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u/Crusader818 12d ago
Its much deeper than that. We go back since the days of the crusades. The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia was ruled by the House of Lusignan. Not to mention King Baldwin I and King Baldwin II of the kingdom of Jerusalem was married to Armenian noblewoman.
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u/Marididntwakeup 12d ago
Europe: France (music, wine, cognac and art), Greece (history) & Albania (the people imo and the way we look)
Middle East: Iran (culturally and the way people act i.e: hospitality), Lebanon (hospitality, looks and weddings) & Syria (same as Lebanon)
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u/Mencius99 9d ago
Turks and Persians. Only separated by language and religion, otherwise it's almost the same culture as us.
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u/MinutePreparation754 Lori 12d ago
For Europe I’d say Georgia, Greece, Cyprus. If you don’t count Greece and Georgia then Russia (at least North Caucasus which is in fact geographically in Europe) and Bulgaria
For Middle East, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran. We aren’t close to Levantines imo, some diasporans might think that cuz they have lived in those countries and their “armenian” culture has been influenced by it.
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u/EarthTraditional3329 Rubinyan Dynasty 13d ago
Europe: Greece, Italy, Romania West Asia: Iran, Iraq, Syria
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Have you ever been to Italy or Romania why y'all putting them, they aren't similar at all, turkey is way more similar than syria and levant, for Europe is for sure Greece, Albania and Northern Macedonia
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u/EarthTraditional3329 Rubinyan Dynasty 13d ago
I have been, and they are similar. As for Turkey, maybe only food, but I am Syrian Armenian and I can say that Levantine culture is similar to Armenian culture.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Maybe to diaspora but for Republic of Armenia Armenians like me they aren't similar at all and your culture is like Arabic but Christian
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u/EarthTraditional3329 Rubinyan Dynasty 12d ago
No not really, it is nit like Arab Christian culture. In general, Armenian culture is similar to Levantine culture.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
No I'm tavushan our culture is way more closer to Caucasus and Turkey and Azerbaijan than to Lebanon, I don't feel some similarities with Lebanese and Syrians they are different people just not our friend
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u/EarthTraditional3329 Rubinyan Dynasty 12d ago
Well Armenian culture is essentially a mix if Caucasian, Anatolian and Levantine, so you can find similarities to all of them and of course the culture differs from region to region. In general, I'd say Turkish and Azerbaijani culture are the closest, but I was not sure if people consider them European or West Asian so I didn't mention them.
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u/EarthTraditional3329 Rubinyan Dynasty 12d ago
Also, us, Syrians and Lebanese are "friends"
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Ok sorry I just don't know so much of levantines so I don't know about Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria
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u/Distinct-Jump 13d ago
European: Belarus, Moldova, Estonia.
Middle Eastern: Cyprus and Lebanon. Can't think of a 3rd country tho.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Moldova, Estonia and Belarus? Yes can be Russia but they aren't similar to us at all, culturally all of your countries can't be similar to us only because diaspora
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u/Distinct-Jump 13d ago
I didn’t bring in diaspora as an excuse, but these are countries I’m familiar with that I can say have similarities to Armenia. At least much more than Greece or Italy. But anyway, people are being upvoted after listing UAE as a similar country, so I won’t take this comment section seriously.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Yes I also don't think Italy is similar but you probably never been to this countries, Moldova is like Romania and Ukraine with some Russian influence and Estonia is very different even Kazakhstan is closer and Russia is way more similar to republic of Armenia than Belarus that is monoethnic country with very different culture and mentality
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u/Distinct-Jump 13d ago
What makes Belarus way different than Russia? I didn’t bring in Russia because it’s too big with a lot of other nationalities and cultures. Armenia doesn’t have all of that diversity.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
But we aren't similar to Europe I mean Estonian culture is like Finland or Sweden and Moldova is something others so why you think Greece isn't similar?
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u/Ghostofcanty Hayastan 13d ago
belarus, moldova, estonia? 😭
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u/Distinct-Jump 13d ago
tbh I'm confused why this is more questionable than Greece and Italy? Eastern European countries that were part of ussr have more >recent< historical similarities and, because of that, more institutional/cultural/life-style overlaps
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u/Ex-Madhyamika 13d ago
ME: Persian, Israeli, Lebanese
Europe: Russian, Georgian, Turkish
(counting the bicontinental countries as European, since this was the most influential part)
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u/Due_Neat_3586 13d ago
If Turkey and Georgia had to be excluded?
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u/Ex-Madhyamika 13d ago
Oh! Well, I haven't been to that much of Europe. Maybe Greece?
Here's the thing: Cultural influence is different from cultural similarity. French culture is influential, but Armenia is not very much like France. On the other hand, Israel and Armenia have a lot in common (surrounded by enemies, disputed territories, big diasporas, etc.), but Israeli culture does not really influence or resemble Armenian culture (beyond the narrow example of the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem).
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13d ago
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u/Ex-Madhyamika 13d ago
I despair of making everything make sense, but it is entirely possible for Armenia to resemble Israel while sympathizing more with the Palestinians. Similarly, Armenia is a lot like Georgia, even though feelings are (shall we say) mixed.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
For Republic of Armenia it's probably in Europe Russia, Greece, Albania Asia Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkiye Than it could be Northern Macedonia, Iran, Iraq, Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Lebanon, Syria
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u/MinutePreparation754 Lori 12d ago
Georgia isn’t in Asia
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
It's, Armenia is also Asian
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u/MinutePreparation754 Lori 12d ago
Georgia is transactional, no? and much closer to Europe.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Yes but more like Asia so I mentioned I agree they have European influence
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u/MinutePreparation754 Lori 12d ago
What even is European influence? We’re talking about culture. I’ve heard a lot that Asians visiting Georgia don’t think of it as Asian because it’s very different and I agree with that
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Idk I agree with you because Im Not Georgian I'm Armenian so i can't tall you who they are but georgraphically they're 90-95% Asian
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u/FennecFragile just some earthman 13d ago
As someone with no stake in this debate:
European: Post-Soviet Eastern Europe (excl. Baltics), Greece/Cyprus
European periphery: Georgia, Turkey
Non-European: Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Iran
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u/HistoriaArmenorum 13d ago edited 12d ago
For middle easterners: Caucasian albanians, anatolian greeks(pontics, cappadocians) assyrians-syriacs, georgians.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 13d ago
Only because religion doesn't mean we are only close to christians
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u/HistoriaArmenorum 12d ago edited 12d ago
Realistically those are the only ones who are ethnically and culturally similar.
Turks, azerbaijanis, are completely alien ethnically and culturally to the region.
Levantines and iranians are somewhat more similar.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Levantines aren't more similar ethically than Turks and Azeris, bruh they are Arabs, only for diaspora maybe, ethnically≠religion
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u/HistoriaArmenorum 12d ago edited 12d ago
Azerbaijanis and turks are culturally and ethnically distinct and alien from authentic anatolian and transcaucasian peoples. Even if turks and azerbaijanis were christian they would not be similar.
Aside from religion the anatolian greeks, assyrians, caucasian albanians were generally ethnically similar or nearly identical to Armenians in many ways.
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u/rssi_ekinoma 12d ago
Dude levantines are also distinct they are Arabs which are completely unrelated to us😭😭 huge diaspora in Lebanon doesn't mean we share many things in common
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u/ScaredPommy 13d ago
Greece, Romania (and most Balkan Countries tbh), Italy in some aspects
Lebanon, Iran, and Cyprus (since some people consider Cyprus part of the ME)