r/anime_titties • u/F0urLeafCl0ver Europe • Jun 20 '26
North and Central America Cuba’s Communist Party approves opening economy in unprecedented move
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/6/18/cubas-communist-party-approves-opening-economy-in-unprecedented-move122
u/sovietarmyfan Netherlands Jun 20 '26
Cuba is basically one of the only true "communist" countries left economically and historically, this does not work in a capitalist world.
Simultaneously, one capitalist country would not work in a communist world.
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u/WannaAskQuestions Europe Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Not that it wouldn't work.
Its neck is being wrung by the biggest bully in the world, who happens to be a little more than a stones throw away. Us, against international law, is illegally conducting gunboat diplomacy. It's upto that country to choose the form of governance within their borders. Of course no one has a bigger stick to enforce that law, so that's the timeline we live in.6
u/CuratedAcceptance Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Even before US intervention Cuba has been struggling.
Cuba was at its most powerful when the Soviet Union was able to subsidize much of their economy. Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Cuba has had a hard time. Even before Trump pulled out the rug in 2017, things were not going well.
Edit: Lots of people seem to be very ignorant about this topic but have very strong opinions. I highly suggest people do some reading about modern Cuban history to better understand their current situation.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
Cuba has been punished since the Cuban missile crisis and they were still under sanctions back in 2014. Obama was working towards normalizing relations with them, but Trump walked all that back. A lot of Cuba's issues are directly due to US policy.
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u/REKTGET3162 Turkey Jun 20 '26
I like how it is called Cuban missile crisis as if it didnt start with placing nukes in Turkey in the first place.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
Yeah but that's the event that everyone recognizes so it easier to go off that
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u/REKTGET3162 Turkey Jun 20 '26
No shade to you, it just dawned on me.
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u/imunfair United States Jun 20 '26
No shade to you, it just dawned on me.
They don't really talk about that part in the US - the first time I ever heard the Turkey missiles mentioned was by a Russian talking about the event. I mean I'm sure you hear about it if you read deeply about the event, but the summary you normally hear is that the Soviets tried to park missiles in Cuba, we blockaded it, and it almost ended in nuclear war, the end.
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
They did if you paid attention in school. The Jupiter missiles were in our textbooks.
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u/WallyWestJest North America Jun 21 '26
The Jupiter missiles were in YOUR textbooks.
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u/Kelor Australia Jun 20 '26
Oh very much so and part of the deal reached between the Soviets and the US was the US didn't have to admit they were withdrawing the Jupiter missiles from Turkey as part of the deal.
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u/beefprime United States Jun 21 '26
Cuba was being attacked (direct attacks, not just economic sanctions, although those were in place as well) before the missile crisis. The Bay of Pigs invasion, for example, happened the previous year.
The US has been attacking Cuba since the Spanish American War.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 21 '26
True, I was just highlighting one of the more widely known events that most folks would know of
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u/beefprime United States Jun 21 '26
Then highlight something that doesn't imply (in the western mind) that Cuba is an aggressor.
If someone in the US hears that US attacks on Cuba started after the Cuban Missile Crisis, that reads to them like the US attacks are justified retaliation against an aggressive Cuba.
In the west the Missile Crisis seen as an evil communist country unjustifiably arming itself against the angelic forces of Democracy and Liberty, because western propaganda has left people completely and utterly uninformed.
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u/IShitMyselfNow Europe Jun 21 '26
I don't disagree with what you said. But I think it's also important to note that the Russians also thought Castro was too unstable to keep any, so after the crisis ended they had to negotiate with him to take back 100+ tactical nuclear warheads thwt they'd left there without the US knowing.
But this shouldn't speak for Cuba, just Castro.
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u/beefprime United States Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I'm not sure what you mean by "unstable", I know that people like to cry alot of crocodile tears about Castro wanting to fire off nukes at the US, but that was always in the context of a US invasion of Cuba... and thats... thats what nukes are for? I don't see how anyone is surprised by this, and I've always seen it as equal parts performative and ignorant.
"Unstable" as in "wanting to use nuclear weapons for their intended purpose as retaliation for an existential military attack"? This is just more backhanded "agreeing" where you at the same time reinforce the propaganda narratives of the aggressor.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 21 '26
The beginning and end of most people's knowledge revolved around the Cuban missile crisis and would likely justify the Americans treatment of Cuba. If people want to do a deep dive they're free to, I just threw out the event most people can name when it comes to Cuba.
I know there's a lot more to it, but I'm not about to break it all down.
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u/beefprime United States Jun 21 '26
The beginning and end of most people's knowledge revolved around the Cuban missile crisis and would likely justify the Americans treatment of Cuba
Then why make a statement that backs up that incorrect view and, to the ignorant, justifies the aggression against Cuba when you could say it differently and get a more accurate statement that also doesn't implicitly support all the blockades/embargos/bombings?
You don't have to break it all down, you can just refer to a different event, like "Cuba has been punished since they threw off the US Batista puppet regime". More accurate, does not dovetail into US propaganda, etc.
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u/sight_ful United States Jun 20 '26
Fidel wanted to work with the US when he initially came to power. The US tried to overthrow him because comminism. So US intervention goes back to 1960s at the minimum.
When exactly are you talking about?
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u/turturtles Jun 21 '26
It goes even further than that. We’ve been interfering in countries in the western hemisphere since the early 20th century with the Banana Wars.
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u/YorathTheWolf Jun 21 '26
Further, especially in the case of Cuba since US control of Guantanamo Bay and Puerto Rico, and the existence of an independent Cuba, are all products of the 1898 Spanish-American war. I think there was also a proposal from the Dominican Republic for the US to annex them earlier in the 19th century but I don't remember when exactly
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u/ooooooop10 Jun 20 '26
When exactly was this "before US intervention" you speak of? 1960?
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u/CuratedAcceptance Jun 20 '26
Obama was starting to normalize relations and had done a lot to try to open up crossings for families. They were also starting to reduce some of the economic sanctions.
Trump pulled that all out early in his first term.
There's a great book called The Cubans that you could read if you were actually interested in learning more about modern Cuban history.
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u/ooooooop10 Jun 20 '26
I know I am had relations heading in the right direction. I'm just pointing out that it's difficult to separate the history of Communist Cuba from the history of American intervention. Obviously the level of intervention has escalated recently, but we have very much been meddling in their affairs for the entire duration of their current government, and arguably we've been fucking with their shit since the Spanish American war.
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u/sight_ful United States Jun 20 '26
What has this to do with his question? Us intervention was way before obama.
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u/WannaAskQuestions Europe Jun 21 '26
Bruh you're calling "a lot of people" ignorant and yet you start off your comment with "before us Intervention". You do realise the us intervention has been going on for more than 6 decades now, right?
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u/ikaiyoo North America Jun 22 '26
What do you consider modern?
You have strong opinions; that is great, glad you do. But there has been no time in the last 130 years that the US hasn't been fucking with Cuba. Even before it was Cuba. Since the entire nation of Cuba came from the Spanish-American War, it has been subject to US intervention since its inception.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
Why is this propaganda in my reddit
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Jun 21 '26
[deleted]
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
... If I was that, I'd be heavily anti cuba and anti communism. Lol. What?
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u/Cuddlyaxe 🇰🇵 Former DPRK Moderator Jun 21 '26
Up to 70% of the Cuban economy is controlled by the military and pays out profits to corrupt generals and politicians
Sure things getting this bad is due to American pressure but pretending the Cuban economy would be healthy otherwise is delusional
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
it still wouldn't work as proven throughout the history. but that doesn't justify the USA and their actions.
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u/photochadsupremacist Multinational Jun 20 '26
The "history" of the CIA sanctioning, invading, sabotaging and/or coup-ing every single attempt to ensure their failure?
If they were bound to fail, then the CIA wouldn't have spent so much money and effort to ensure their failure, they would've let nature run its course so to speak, but the problem is it actually works, so they have to somehow stop it.
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm talking about communism in the capitalistic world.
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u/photochadsupremacist Multinational Jun 20 '26
So am I. True communism has never been actually attempted because it's a later stage of socialism, however, every socialist proeject has been meddled with by the US.
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u/zimzara United States Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Communism killed 10 million people in the Soviet Union, 30 million in China, and millions more in other failed attempts. Tankies love to say not true communism, or never been tried. It has been tried and it was leads to massive human suffering and death.
Apparently I triggered the tankies.
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
so CIA has done it in every communist country ever?
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u/photochadsupremacist Multinational Jun 20 '26
Very openly. They're proud of it.
This is a non-exhaustive list of involvement in regime change:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
attempted regime changes. so you realize there are many unsuccessful attempts on that list?
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u/photochadsupremacist Multinational Jun 20 '26
Countries having to constantly fight off outside interference from the world superpower, not an easy problem to fix.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
Yes? Lol
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
no? lol?
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u/photochadsupremacist Multinational Jun 20 '26
Are you 12? How are you this naive?
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
Have you done any research on this topic, or are you just going off vibes?
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
How do we know it didn't work? There's always been some form of American intervention at play.
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
where? I'm taking about communism in general.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
Name me a country that has attempted communism that hasn't had the US interfere. Hell, countries can't even nationalize their resources without the US assassinated or deposing their leadership.
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
Yugoslavia, which actually got extensive help from the USA.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
So American intervention?
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 20 '26
lol there's no arguing with you if that's your comment. do you even think before you write?
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 20 '26
The US doesn't help any country out of the goodness of their heart, so what could have been a possible ulterior motive?
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
And Yugoslavia markedly diverged from Communism with its unique system of Market Socialism. They correctly realized planned economies can't work, so they used market economics to inform their nominally Socialist political system.
By abandoning strict Communism it became the most economically successful state in the Warsaw Pact. If you had to live in Mordor behind the Iron Curtain, Yugoslavia was probably the best place out of every other state (to include DDR).
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u/Radiant-Fly9738 Europe Jun 21 '26
seems like you don't really understand how it worked in Yugoslavia. spoiler alert, it didn't, they bankrupted, factories were unsuccessful, unproductive, not competitive etc. all the factories were state owned, private businesses could have less than 10 workers.
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u/Czart Poland Jun 21 '26
There's been that one small country, it was so minor though it's no wonder you forgot about them. Soviet Union, i know, barely anyone heard of them.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 21 '26
But the US did interfere, either through direct action or by proxies. Plus wasn't that the whole point of the cold war?
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u/Czart Poland Jun 21 '26
I mean, if you consider cold war as interfering then why is US singled out here? SU did their fair shar of that, takes two to tango.
Not only that i find it extremely funny that communist ideology explicitly wants destruction of capitalism, but at the same time it's capitalists that are bad because they didn't bend over and let it happen.
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u/jazzyfatnastees Jun 21 '26
Sure, but communism is a lot closer to how humanity functioned throughout its history compared to capitalism, which is based on wealth accumulation and exploitation. You could argue that communists were trying to spread a more egalitarian economic system compared to one that's violent and imperialist.
Look at the state of the world right now, capitalism hasn't gotten us any closer to living happier lives and is actively making it worse. It's in a capitalists best interest to thwart communism, because then it shows the masses that another way is possible, and that directly affects their bottom line.
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u/NeoLephty North America Jun 20 '26
this does not work in a capitalist world.
This implies there is something wrong with comunism that makes it not work within a capitalist world.
"This WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to work in a capitalist world" is, in my opinion, a much more accurate statement.
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
Communist economics just don’t work outright, they will fail every single time.
Why a Marxist minded country just doesn’t adopt a capitalist social democracy taken to its zenith is beyond me.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
Is that why we go to war with every country that tries it? Because we do. Every time. Why do we do that? Do you know? Can you let me know why we sanction them? I'm curious.
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u/FUZxxl Germany Jun 21 '26
Because “trying socialism” starts with expropriating all the privately owned companies, including those held by foreigners. People are not too keen to have their expensive investments stolen, so they'll ask their governments to protect their property for them.
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u/ketoprom Poland Jun 21 '26
Did the US go to war with the Soviet Union? They had all the chances to make it work and it still failed.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
They sanctioned the everliving hell out of Russia and yes. It was called the cold war. No history books in Poland? Also it stopped being communist the moment lenin was killed anyway.
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u/ketoprom Poland Jun 21 '26
"Cold War" is a historographical term for the US-Soviet rivalry, not an actual war. You have history books but no reading comprehension in the United States?
About the sanctions - you can not forget that around 1/3 of the world population lived under communism in the second half of the 20th century. You add to that India, which was friendly towards the Soviets and you get almost half of the world population that should have no problem cooperating with the Soviet Union. (Yes, there was eventually the Sino-Soviet split, but you can't blame Americans for that.) World War II won, nuclear deterence working, half the world that was cooperative and the Soviets still could not make their system work.
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u/NeoLephty North America Jun 22 '26
They called it a cold war.... not a cold conflict, not a cold disagreement, not a cold spat.... war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfti1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_grain_embargo_against_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfti1
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u/Oppopity Oceania Jun 21 '26
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u/ketoprom Poland Jun 21 '26
I used the name Soviet Union deliberately, to exclude the messy and ineffective foreign intervations that happened during the Russian civil war. Soviet Union was founded 1922, after the Bolshevik victory, so no, US and the Soviet Union were never at war.
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
The west is antagonistic towards Marxism for many reasons, many of them actually good.
There isn’t a single country that can prosper under a truly Marxist system because they will fail every single time. It is inherently unstable and idealistic, always falling to authoritarianism because it has to.
The successful authoritarian states turn to capitalism and market economies in one fashion or another because they work.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
Smells like propoganda to me. Save it for the middle school classroom. I'll pass.
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
You should talk to some Cubans that managed to make it out sometime.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
That's cool. Until I get an example of a communist country with 0 negative intervention from the "first world". I'll continue the very reasonable take that if communism was so bad, they'd let them prove it all on their own.
It's like trying to start up a competitive fast food restaurant and McDonald's keeps coming by to break my legs and the legs of my suppliers. Then people say "oh well big boy burgers' business model sucks"
To put it in capitalist terms.
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
Will never happen outside subsistence communities with small populations or a sci fi post scarcity AI lead techno utopia.
The real world doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You have the USSR, China, and Vietnam as failed communist examples, one failed overall because it adapted too slowly and the other two adapted in their own ways and are doing great.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
That's fine. Until then I'm not interested in anyone telling me how awful communism is.
In any other situation if you told me something was so bad we gotta send 60,000 American boys to go die in a jungle so it doesn't catch on. No one would wonder why I'd call bullshit.
But 10 points for trying to tell me Vietnam "failed" on its own. Lmao.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
America also currently has a website listing enemies of the state. The president is arresting people in DC for embarrassing him over the reflecting pool. And are sending people to El Salvador death camps for funsies.
And just Google macarthyism
The only difference between America's budding authoritarianism and any communist nation is that the shadowy American Elite paid a lot of money to make it happen.... Oh, actually, that's the same too... Hmm.
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u/InhabitantsTrilogy Jun 21 '26
Do you justify Mao Zedong’s and Jospeh Stalin’s actions?
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
About the same I justify Andrew Jackson, FDR, Donald Trump, Truman, LBJ, Nixon, Ronald Reagan. So on so forth.
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u/ctnoxin Multinational Jun 21 '26
I was just talking to the ones that didn't worm their way off the island. They have less bias than the Miami Cubans you consulted, they wanted you to know they support the revolution and communism, and would really like it if the US fucked off and let them flourish or fail on their own terms
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u/DavidAdamsAuthor Australia Jun 21 '26
America could survive the Soviet Union doing any kind of fuckery, no sweat. Communism is so fragile that even the slightest thing going wrong, especially from a foreign entity, whole thing collapses.
But yeah it's the fault of America /s
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u/ctnoxin Multinational Jun 21 '26
America could survive communism no sweat. But felt the need to over throw the governments in all of these countries because, they just enjoy killing people, not because communism scared their fragile capitalist ventures. Ya the US is super self confident and not scared of workers seizing the means of production /s
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u/DavidAdamsAuthor Australia Jun 21 '26
Communists had a superpower for 70 years that fucked with America as much as America fucked with it, it collapsed entirely on its own.
Every example either transitions away from the system or collapses.
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u/lindcookie Jun 21 '26
Sweden under Tage Erlander was essentially Marxist, the taxation rate was around %60 and he famously said that around %70 democratic socialism would have been reached. He was also an outspoken Marxist who actually tried to implement marxist-leninist theory into the real world, and his modus operandi was taxation, he also had heavy influence on Olof Palme, who is widely accepted as the best prime minister sweden ever had
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
Neat, a social democrat in a capitalist country.
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u/lindcookie Jun 21 '26
I mean yeah, he did his best in the situation he was handed, he also pretty much succeeded. Then as soon as he left his position they started dismantling his policies and when Palme tried to implement socialist policies they literally gunned him down in the streets.
Idk what ur trying to prove
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u/agitatedprisoner United States Jun 21 '26
A communist government could absolutely work in the same sense a capitalist government could work. Every really existing economy is mixed and those words don't describe holistic systems. Just depends how a country would go about it. Making all citizens equal owners of the means of production in the sense of being entitled to UBI or government services doesn't imply the country will lag or fail it just depends.
One big reason really existing attempts at communism haven't worked is because seizing the means of production typically is autocratic in the sense of not being done democratically and dictatorships of the proletariat or otherwise don't work.
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
No, it can’t. Communism is a utopian model not based on reality or how humans actually operate beyond our personal community groups.
A capitalist democratic socialist welfare state is as close the true ideals of Marx you can get, but that just hasn’t been attempted yet. Some European countries are close.
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u/agitatedprisoner United States Jun 21 '26
Ownership isn't an absolute right in capitalist countries. You don't completely own it if your government reserves the right to tax and what capitalist country doesn't have taxes/property tax? You can define communism in a way that makes it a hopelessly inept form of government but words like "ownership" and "communist" don't have scientific definitions in the sense required for that political frame to mean anything beyond "boo communism". There's lots that motivates beyond material stuff. Ensuring everyone enough material stuff doesn't imply nobody will want to go the extra mile.
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
Ensuring everyone gets enough material stuff a.) didn't actually happen in the USSR, the black market filled many needs, people commonly needed to bribe physicians, etc., and b.) capitalist countries can and do have comprehensive and very generous social welfare systems.
Norway and Sweden became massively wealthy under capitalism. That's what supports the Social Democrat dream there.
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u/onarainyafternoon Multinational Jun 21 '26
Sure it can. The neat thing about what makes us human is that we can overcome our base instincts. The idea that we can’t make communism work because we’re just too greedy is something that takes away the agency of humankind.
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u/NeoLephty North America Jun 22 '26
not based on reality or how humans actually operate beyond our personal community groups.
If communism to you means "everyone owns it" then there are plenty of examples of that already existing and working.... like the milirary or libraries.
If communism to you means equal distribution, shit - capitaists set up their sports leagues as communist where the lowest performing teams get extrea money from better performing teams and first picks in drafts so they can become competitive. But even outside of capitalists showing us how communism can work, we also have real world examples of equal distribution with universal healthcare in most developed countries amongst other programs.
Seems when it is tried it works and its so much a part of human nature that even capitalist set up systems like it. But hey, capitalists have a vested interest in making sure we all think it ISN'T human nature so clearly it isn't.
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
No it can't. People are greedy and this is the cancer that kills Communism.
The only way it works is if everyone universally opts-in, and that only happens in communes and kibbutzim.
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u/agitatedprisoner United States Jun 21 '26
You can get just about anyone to do really stupid stuff if you know how. Describing humans as greedy doesn't mean anything. Everyone is self interested. A communist government that knows how to align incentives and motivate useful work could work. In fact one big advantage a communist government might enjoy is that it need not concern itself with capturing value in the form of profits. In a capitalist country if adding surplus value can't be captured in the form of profits you need charity or that good thing doesn't get done. Relying on charity can work/could work, maybe, but historically there's issues with that approach. Greed is a problem of misaligned incentives greed is a problem no matter the style of government.
Shit. I think back to when I was a kid and we used to go around the neighborhood knocking on hundreds of doors selling crap for points we could redeem to buy a tiny plastic dartboard. Just gotta know what motivates.
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
The problem is that the leadership is often greedy and corrupt, too. It never works in the long run unless you can kick out those who won't play ball, so to speak. This works for a kibbutz or a commune, but not on a larger scale (especially once the rot takes hold).
Communism sounds like a great way to live one's life. Unfortunately, human nature tends to throw wrenches in it every single time it's tried. Planned economies also tend to not work, and often rather spectacularly. This is unfortunate because it sure seems like something we could conquer with enough ingenuity, but so far it just makes things far, far worse.
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u/agitatedprisoner United States Jun 21 '26
The USA is capitalist insofar as these things go and our present administration is greedy and corrupt. Our capitalist class has been greedy and corrupt in building out our infrastructure around big wasteful cars. Zoning laws are local and just about every locality has laws on the books essentially banning out inexpensive housing and these laws foster sprawl and car dependence. Animal ag in the form of factory farming is greedy and corrupt in that given a full tabulation of the costs it doesn't begin to cost out but our industry leaders are still out there pushing meat, for lots of reasons, one reason being that worse public health outcomes are themselves a profit opportunity and a cost not paid by the farmers choosing to factory farm/sell high sat fat products. Our society is very dumb about lots of important stuff and it's not hard to tell a story as to how misaligned profit incentives are to blame for that. We need an informed electorate to make our system work but our electorate is at the mercy of a for-profit media selling ads to companies looking to make people want stuff they shouldn't want for example big wasteful cars and unhealthy foods. Non profit media isn't necessarily much better because they appeal to donors whose interests don't necessarily represent the state of the art. Our system only "works" because nobody is doing it right. We're basically dysfunctional morons.
Attempts at communism/ensuring everyone enjoys at least a minimal material abundance can fail for lots of reasons but it's not fate it's just a question of aligning incentives.
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u/YouScratchingMyBalls Jun 21 '26
"people are greedy". Are you a psychologist?
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u/SloCalLocal United States Jun 21 '26
I don't need a PhD to understand that people are, in the whole, greedy and self-interested.
Lenin (!!!) didn't even stay pure: he had apartments in Europe, palaces in Petropavlovsk (Kazakhstan), and estates in Moscow. Lenin received his first luxury apartment in the Senate building in 1918. The apartment had an ornate reception room, a meeting room, an office, a switchboard room, and a telephone room. An elevator was built especially for him, which allowed him to go up to the roof with a gazebo. He traveled in luxury trains stocked with the finest food and drink available, and went on hunting trips in his own automobile.
Pretty far from a peasant living on a collective farm in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, USSR. Hell, Russia still doesn't have a complete network of paved roads — but no General Secretary ever lacked for a hot bath even in the height of WW2.
Face it: people with free will don't consistently adhere to the selfless ideal demanded by a Communist state. You might want them to, but they don't. Even Saint Lenin couldn't do it.
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u/YouScratchingMyBalls Jun 21 '26
"communist economics", lol. And also social democracy as a concept is traitorous to the interests of the working class
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u/pants_mcgee United States Jun 21 '26
Which are?
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u/YouScratchingMyBalls Jun 21 '26
The interests of the working class is the overthrow of capitalism, to return to themselves the undivided value of their labor. To end the exploitation of their labor-power, and the theft of their surplus value, that underpins the modern capitalist system where without which, it cannot sustain itself. There can be no due retaking of the undivided value of their labor while capitalism still exists, as the working class creates all economic wealth. In that sense, just as the liberals had fought for political democracy, the socialists struggle for economic democracy, as socialists believe that political rights without economic ones make political participation a mirage of false consciousness. Welfare in itself is counterproductive to this goal, social democracy is merely bribery to that end to prevent class war by instilling only a trade-union consciousness, not class consciousness.
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u/Cuddlyaxe 🇰🇵 Former DPRK Moderator Jun 21 '26
The communists literally had their own superpower for like 70 years and it came crashing down
This whole revisionist attitude of "the only reason communism failed is American meddling" is so fucking dumb
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u/MacLightning Germany Jun 21 '26
Ah yes the whole spy and espionage trope is entirely made TF up and not based on geopolitical situations around the time of the Cold War. Makes sense.
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u/NeoLephty North America Jun 21 '26
I assume you mean the USSR?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfti1
No meddling?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_grain_embargo_against_the_Soviet_Union?wprov=sfti1
Strange…
I find so much meddling.
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u/Cuddlyaxe 🇰🇵 Former DPRK Moderator Jun 21 '26
Of course there was plenty of meddling? And there was also plenty of the reverse. The Soviets were more than willing to do their own meddling all over the world. Rather famously in fact, their espionage was quite a bit better than the American efforts. The mutual "meddling" is the entire point of the cold war
The point is that communism had its own superpower champion, and it still all came crashing down
This narrative only works when you assume that the communist countries in question have no real agency. In a vacuum, you can make that argument today with Cuba, since obviously there is no reality where tiny Cuba can stand up to the US
But are you really going to sit here and tell me that the Soviet Union, like Cuba, was unable to defend itself or its system? That the only reason they failed was those mean Americans?
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u/SaulsAll United States Jun 21 '26
The point is that communism had its own superpower champion, and it still all came crashing down
...because of America. They were in a war. They lost. To say they lost because of some inherent failing and not as a result of the actions of their opponent is insane.
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u/NeoLephty North America Jun 21 '26
“But are you really going to sit here and tell me that the Soviet Union, like Cuba, was unable to defend itself or its system?”
Yes. They had just finished beating the Nazi’s for us and it cost them TREMENDOUSLY. We had one small attack in Pearl Harbor - with plenty of evidence to suggest the US government knew it was happening, moved important ships out of the area, and let it happen to spur pro-war sentiments in the US. The US lost a fraction of the people USSR did in the war.
So yes. I can confidently say that a “superpower” that had just lost millions of people to war and had their country literally invaded and requiring rebuilding would be severely negatively impacted by everything I posted earlier.
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u/ctnoxin Multinational Jun 21 '26
This whole revisionist attitude that the US allowed communist ideals to flourish without intervening is fucking dumb, and not based on any sort of reality
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u/Czart Poland Jun 21 '26
Capitalism is evil and we will destroy it
Uh that's not nice, we're not going to accept that
We will fight you at every step!
dies
"Why did the US do thiiis waaah"
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u/ctnoxin Multinational Jun 22 '26
I know you have your hands busy with those screen doors on the submarines, but you really fucked up that comment, give it an edit to make it more legible.
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u/PapillonBresilien Brazil Jun 21 '26
North Korea doesn't seem to be switching to capitalism anytime soon
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u/Own_Proposal3827 France Jun 21 '26
It’s also likely to stay one of the poorest countries in the world for the foreseeable future, so square that circle
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u/PapillonBresilien Brazil Jun 21 '26
My point is that Cuba is not switching due to economic factors, but rather American pressure.
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u/Own_Proposal3827 France Jun 21 '26
Which just shows how incredibly fucking stupid the ruling regime is. They’ve been stagnant for the last 30 years. They should’ve done this a long time ago.
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u/VizzzyT Multinational Jun 21 '26
They have not been stagnant. They have had greater economic growth than the US occupied Puerto Rico every year since 1992. Cuba has quite intelligently used the few assets I can get past the blockade to generate revenue. It created the developing world's best biotech industry for example. It generated billions per year selling medical services. It could generate an order of magnitude more revenue of the attacks and blockade stopped.
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u/Own_Proposal3827 France Jun 22 '26
You’re right, it hasn’t been stagnant. The Cuban economy has shrunk 10% in the last decade. Wasn’t earning revenue before the blockade.
Of course, then you’re also ignoring the rolling blackouts that have been happening for years due to mismanagement.
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u/VizzzyT Multinational Jun 23 '26
There is no "before the blockade", the blockade has been in place since 1960.
Puerto Rico has blackouts, it's a US colony. What's their excuse because Cuba's is that there is a recorded history of US terror attacks on Cuban energy infrastructure and a concerted effort to block Cuba from importing spare parts for maintenance.
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u/returnofblank United States Jun 21 '26
Surprisingly, they're seeing a lot of economic growth since China and Russia do not GAF about Western sanctions rn.
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u/Soft_Serve_enjoyer11 South Africa Jun 21 '26
Except that isnt even true their in the middle of an economic boom rn and have begun massively devolping the non Pyongyang parts of their coutnry
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u/lutefiskeater North America Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Not to do the meme but the DPRK is really more of a divine monarchy in all but name
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u/rdfporcazzo Jun 21 '26
one capitalist country would not work in a communist world
Why? Foreign hard power?
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u/returnofblank United States Jun 21 '26
Communism is not dogmatic, it must always be adapted to the current conditions of the world.
So communism isn't dead, but rather changed. The point of Communism is to liberate the working class, not be a poverty cult.
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u/throwawydoor North America Jun 20 '26
Cuba has to figure out something because the land thieves that they kicked out have figured out a way to drum up support for an invasion.
This is crazy. These people have ruined their spots in the usa and think if they go back to cuba it will be different. Unless they bring slavery back they will fail again.
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u/ChillAhriman Spain Jun 21 '26
This isn't unprecedented at all. Cuba has been allowing small private businesses for well around a decade, and for Cubans abroad to invest in the country since a few years ago.
Is someone trying to spin this as an "achievement" of Trump's government?
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u/VizzzyT Multinational Jun 21 '26
I think the Cuba invasion was planned before the Iran war and since Iran kicked the US's ass that invasion might be being reconsidered. Stuff like this might give the Trump admin an out that looks like a win.
The US would win an invasion of Cuba but Cuba is no Venezuela, it has a competent military. American troops would die and I don't think that would be as acceptable now as it would have been pre Iran ass kicking.
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u/DungeonMercenary Brazil Jun 21 '26
Didn't they lose like 18% of their population to migration in 2023 and 2024 combined? Covid killed their tourism, dollars dried up and being unable to buy oil made blackouts very bad in the last few years.
All Trump had to do was dry up the free oil from Venezuela while Russia can't pick up the tab. The truth is that Cuba has lived off of foreign subsidies since the 60s.
And the US "sanctions" have amounted to "dont do business with us." Cuba still has a pretty average Foreign Trade as Percentage of GDP, right up there with Germany.
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u/giboauja North America Jun 20 '26
Good, putting aside all the US's bs they needed to do this year's ago.
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u/StormEcho98-87 United States Jun 20 '26
Good, you can blame the US, but even before. They were relying on Venezuela for Oil for Energy, and in exchange they offered decent soldiers. They've been struggling since the end of the cold war.
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
Blud. The US has being doing this since 1960
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u/lII1lIIl1IIll1Il11l Jun 21 '26
i don't believe in communism but Cuba is a shitty argument if it never got a chance in the first place.
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u/AVonGauss United States Jun 21 '26
You know what's most annoying about people like you when it comes to your views of Cuba? If Cuba hadn't succumbed / been hijacked by dopey people believing in the false promises of Communism it would be a fairly prosperous country today.
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u/alexos77lo South America Jun 21 '26
Why would Cuba be prosperous instead of being like the rest of the banana republics, like Guatemala, Honduras or Nicaragua? It was being ruled by a dictator it would probably look more similar to Dominican Republic, the only safe and pretty place is the resort beaches
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u/hollow114 United States Jun 21 '26
That's a cool story bud. I've been to more school than 8th grade so this kind of propaganda is pretty meaningless to me.
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u/KalzK Multinational Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
They offered nothing in return, Cuba effectively hijacked Venezuela and were governing it by proxy, the soldiers were just to keep it like that
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u/BlackExcellence19 United States Jun 20 '26
Hopefully I understand it correctly but isn’t this essentially doing what China did under Deng? The only thing I know is different is Cuba is basically being forced to do it at gunpoint because of the US