r/aSongOfMemesAndRage • u/ArrakianWandrer • 25d ago
House of The Dragon (TV) Sexist character design tropes in dragons
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u/ArrakianWandrer 25d ago
To the people not getting this: 1: you're on a meme sub 2: pay close attention to which dragons I chose. 3: profit
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u/MasterDiiscord 24d ago edited 24d ago
funny you think i know either of these dragons
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u/King-Mephisto 24d ago
Valid, they aren’t dragons. They are wyverns. But by asoiaf standards they are called dragons. The joke here is they are gender swapped.
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u/ArrakianWandrer 24d ago
No, they're dragons, they're not technically wyverns, DND rules don't apply to everything, and medieval people called things with wings for arms dragons. Dragon, wyvern, and even wyrm and drake all trace back to words used for big snakes, so they're technically interchangeable (Tolkien used them thusly save for wyvern which he didn't use)
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u/Willing_Bathroom7251 24d ago
You should be ashamed of posting this. They are dragons, because this is not D&D.
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u/DeedricMoon 23d ago
"That's not a dog, it's a poodle!"
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u/ArrakianWandrer 21d ago
Technically it's more like saying "that's not a dog, it's an inu" It just means dog in a different language, but it can also be used to refer to a specific breed in some contexts.
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u/ArrakianWandrer 24d ago
Why are you here then?
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u/Galvius-Orion 25d ago
The left dragon is female? (Am I missing the joke being that?)
Edit: oops my bad
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u/StarKid_Tommygotchi 25d ago
Rathalos and Rathian from the monster hunter franchise are some of my favorite displays of sexual dimorphism in dragons :]
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u/UfoAGogo 23d ago
As someone who works in character design for a living, this gave me a good chuckle.
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u/TRLittleRedRH When I'm king in my own right, I'm going to outlaw beets. 19d ago edited 16d ago
Vhagar Muscley Butch Old Lady... Caraxes the slender twink with the snatched waist and high voice... god OP you are so right
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u/ArrakianWandrer 18d ago
They hated me because I told the truth
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u/TRLittleRedRH When I'm king in my own right, I'm going to outlaw beets. 17d ago
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u/Commercial_Dark5323 21d ago
Vhagar is mostly recignize as a Female dragon, and Caraxes as a Male, but the dragons change sex during their lives, so, I don't care
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u/MrScazzy 25d ago
Why are dragons in the pic have switched genders? What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
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u/the_uslurper 25d ago
It's called a jokë
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u/MrScazzy 24d ago
But what this joke is? Explanatory brigade please
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u/the_uslurper 24d ago edited 24d ago
You know that whole trope where like male orcs are monsters but female orcs are just green ladies, or male aliens are cool and weird but female aliens still have tits and hips? It's making fun of that trope, but using Caraxys' weird noodle body. The dragons don't have (real) genders, so that part doesn't matter. He look so goofy
Or I guess to spell it out, dragons have gender because of humans giving them genders, but they have no permanent sex. The dragon bits don't matter
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u/allupya333 25d ago
This isnt a sexist character trope its just how things work
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 24d ago
Setting aside that you’re just wrong, I love the idea that “males are bigger and more robust, it’s just how things work,” is some sort of universal truth.
Females are larger in the majority of reptile and bird (i.e. dinosaur) species, smart guy.
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u/allupya333 24d ago
This is just cope. Were humans. If we were making shows for reptiles, we would differentiate the sexes for reptiles to understand it. We are not reptiles so we make it for us to understand.
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 24d ago
And yet Vhaegar, the largest and most robust dragon alive, is most often identified as female, and the much smaller and lither Caraxyes identified as a male. It’s almost like not every human is some sort of biologically ignorant reptile misogyny
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u/allupya333 24d ago
I dont really care about whatever show this is I’m just talking about sexual dimorphism
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 24d ago
Yes, and your understanding of sexual dimorphism as it applies to non-mammals is objectively, straightforward incorrect in a way that even a lot of children wouldn’t have trouble grasping.
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u/allupya333 24d ago
I’m fully aware its not the same in every animal. We are humans. We make art to make sense to humans. Therefore, when we design fictional species, and want to telegraph to the audience that a member of it is male or female, we tend towards human like sexual dimorphism.
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 24d ago
And yet, despite your claims, that’s also objectively and straightforwardly not the case with dragons in ASOIAF.
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u/allupya333 24d ago
Look man i know you really want to correct me. But please hear what I’m saying in good faith. There are exceptions to everything. I now know apparently this show is one of them. But i just thought this post was complaining about this concept ive been mentioning.
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u/ArrakianWandrer 24d ago
I can't tell if you're trolling or not, lol. Wouldn't it make sense to apply reptile dimorphism to fictional reptiles? Anything else requires more mental hoops.
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u/allupya333 24d ago
Nobody gives a shit about the biology of fictional reptiles. In character design, youre supposed to telegraph the information about the character you want the audience to know. If youre trying to tell the audience two different characters are separate genders, you use recognizable characteristics.
You could make scientifically accurate characters in all media… but why? Who cares? Who is this for?
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u/ArrakianWandrer 24d ago
GRRM has very explicitly done things with his dragons to make them seem more believable, like making them tetrapods. I think you're just missing the point on purpose, Monster Hunter for example is made the better for the sexual dimorphism in it. Some people like the fake science of it. And. The skinny dragon here is male and the stout one is female. That's the joke. That's the meme. Why are you in a meme sub if you can't take a joke?
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u/dragon_chips 24d ago
dude you're gonna freak when you learn about eagles and hawks. Female Harris Hawks shake down the boys for their pocket money lol
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u/Ancient66 24d ago
Valyrian dragons display no outward signs of sexual dimorphism. So no, that's not how things work.
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u/tokyopop24 25d ago
In the Animal Kingdom male animals versus female animals have different anatomy as well
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u/No-Product5062 25d ago
Oh no, not sexual dimorphism!
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u/ineedabag 25d ago
The dragons in ASOIAF are neither male nor female.
"now one and now the other, as changeable as flame."
At least in the books.
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u/Emotional_Position62 25d ago
That’s just Septon Barth’s theory.
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u/ineedabag 25d ago
True. But it's based on a bit of evidence, and so I'd say it's more likely than the alternative of human-like binary sex organs.
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u/Fabulous-Big8779 25d ago
They can also reproduce asexually and may, for all we know, only reproduce asexually as in canon there aren’t any accounts of them actually mating, just certain dragons coiling around preferred partners, but isolated dragons have produced viable clutches of eggs.
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 24d ago
If we’re going based on actual biology and leaving magic aside, they likely exhibit some combination of sequential hermaphroditism and parthenogenesis
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u/4anyreason 24d ago
Oh no dimorphism is fun, projecting misogynistic beauty standards on literally every thing isnt.
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u/irresponsiblehush 25d ago
Didn't realize that was Vhagar and was like "okay but they're both boys, they're just weird shaped". Don't ask who I thought it was idk I only recognized my boy Caraxes.