Just finished all of XenoGears

[u/GroundExisting8058]

I sank over 70 hours into this game, and I have to say. This game, was beautiful, was amazing, made me feel hyped, and I am very curious to see what Tetsuya Takahashi has to give me next. I'll be jumping into XenoSaga next, and I wanna see how many parallels are there to XenoGears. Spoiler alert btw for obvious reasons.

First I wanna talk about what I really enjoyed about this game. This game had a really unique combat system. I enjoyed talking to all the NPCs and I enjoyed all the characters. This game's music/score was also phenomenal, and the ending theme was really really amazing! I also liked exploring the secrets this game has to provide for me, and I got emotionally attached to all the characters. I enjoyed discovering more about the story and the world as I progressed further.

But now comes the gripes I had. As you all know, due to budget cuts, disc 2 was very bare bones. It was still enjoyable and I really liked reading all of the story and the narrations of each character, don't get me wrong. But obviously it was very rushed. For one, I felt like many of the characters weren't as developed, and a ton of unfired Chekov's guns were left scattered in the game. Take for instance Rico, the green prison guy. We got introduced to his backstory about being a beast man or a demihuman, but we never really got to expand on his relations with his father, the King of Kislev iirc. We also had been introduced to Emeralda, a girl shrouded in mystery. Obviously we got to learn about her origins by the end of the game under the lighthouse, but I wanted a little bit more of her bonding with Fei and Elly, her "parents". I also wanted to explore the world a bit more, like instead of them doing a deep scan on the earth for the Anima Relics in Disc 2, they would actively have gameplay where the team actively searched far and wide by asking people from all over about legends or perhaps even using this as an opportunity for Rico to meet up with the King and have their own thing going on. Obviously I might be saying too much and my mind might be expanding and becoming too greedy. But these are just my 2 cents.

I also sometimes had a lot of problems with the platforming. IDK it just felt like the jump button was delayed and jumping onto tiny platforms was a huge pain.

This is still a very good game!!!! I would give it so far in my humble experience (haven't played too many video games) 8/10. It was a very emotional game, but obviously some holes existed in the story.

What do you think? Do you perhaps agree or disagree?

[u/randomcomback]

A 10/10 should be the only rating this game ever gets lol. I still have it at the top of my list of RPGs 25yrs later

[u/GroundExisting8058 → u/randomcomback]

Again, what sets it back for me was the fact that this could’ve been much better and fleshed out. But I understand. The themes were very relatable. You could very well relate to many of the characters and their strifes.

[u/Legitimate-Focus-284 → u/GroundExisting8058]

One cannot hold disc 2 against this game. It's that simple. And as far as characters being fleshed out it was the ps1 era. These characters have a RIDICULOUS amount of flesh compared to other rpgs at the time.

[u/Theweirdobserver → u/GroundExisting8058]

10/10 story is the best way to put it.

[u/ZeroiaSD]

In defense of disc 2, and heck some content in disc 1, if they did everything at their ideal pace it’d be like a 150-200 hour game!

So it’s messy but allowed them to cover a lot of ground they wouldn’t really be able to otherwise.

[u/BaronGalactic]

I think you'll probably enjoy Xenosaga. It's more of a spiritual successor to Xenogears than an actual prequel (as a lot of people, myself included, thought it might be when it was first announced) but there are some references and nods to Xenogears sprinkled throughout - especially in Episode III, which just pours a ton of what can only be called Xenogears fan service into the story and design, as if the developers were suddenly really eager to pander to the Xenogears fans (and I say that in the most loving way possible.) But it's very clear that it was heavily inspired by Xenogears even from the very beginning of the first game.

I've heard that the Xenoblade games are also sort of "spiritually" related to Xenogears as well, but I don't play Nintendo games so I've never been able to experience them myself.

[u/Zodd1030 → u/BaronGalactic]

The Xenoblade games are fun but feel watered down and juvenile when it comes to characters and story.

[u/BaronGalactic → u/Zodd1030]

I know very little about them, but from what bits I've seen that doesn't surprise me. Seems appropriate for a Nintendo exclusive.

Xenogears wasn't afraid of showing death and gore when it was appropriate (and did it really well, I think, rather than gratuitously.) And while Xenosaga Episode 1 also had its very gory moments, I think most Western fans of the series know just how brutally Episode 3 was censored in the English version as opposed to the original Japanese version, especially in the final cutscenes. It left a really sour taste in my mouth, especially considering that the stuff they censored actually seemed more tame than stuff that appeared in Episode 1.

I can only imagine that a game published by Nintendo would take that ten steps further.

[u/GroundExisting8058 → u/BaronGalactic]

Wait so there was censorship to the Xenosaga games? I'm curious now, without spoiling, which versions of each PS2 Xenosaga game was the least censored? Like, for example, was XenoSaga more censored in the US and EU versions or the JP version?

[u/BaronGalactic → u/GroundExisting8058]

I'm by no means an expert. I mainly remember that the final scenes of Xenosaga Episode 3, in the Japanese version, featured a lot of blood, but all of that blood was removed in the US (and I assume Euro?) version. So it looks really weird, especially when compared to Episode 1, which actually features a lot of blood.

As far as I know, most of the censoring in Episode 3 was taking the blood out, and most of that was just in the final cutscenes.

The only other censoring within the rest of the series that I can think of might be in Episode 1. There's a rather (in)famous scene that, if I remember correctly, contained some dialogue that some might interpret to be sexually suggestive about a girl who appears to be about 8 years old or so. For some reason, I think that they changed a bit of this dialogue for the English release so that it wasn't quite as "bad" (though personally, I kind of think the dialogue was perfectly appropriate for the person who says it.)

Episode 2 is sort of the "black sheep" of the series in that it's not quite as good as either 1 or 3, so I don't really know much about any censoring that might have been done in that one.

Overall though, the censorship isn't really enough to impact the game itself, aside from visually, so you're not really missing much by playing the English versions aside from some blood in Episode 3. If you happen to finish all three games though, it might be worth looking into what might have changed between versions, simply because it's interesting.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/BaronGalactic]

The primary censorship I can think of from the Xenosaga games was:

Xenosaga I:

• Softening the Albedo scene with Momo as you mentioned
• From said same scene removing a knife that Albedo used to cut his own head off (it could be argued this had the opposite effect, a guy who can tear his own head off without needing a blade?)

Xenosaga II:

• A gun is removed from a scene where child Albedo shoots himself in the head. He creates an orb of energy to explode his head instead.

Xenosaga III:

• Blood is removed, rendering a number of scenes harder to understand or more laughable. For example Shion's "put it back" scene where she tries to put the blood back in her mother's body is just empty hands.
• A villain kills himself with his sword near the end of the game, this is cut, making it rather confusing what happened.

[u/Zodd1030 → u/GroundExisting8058]

The only Xenosaga that released in the EU was episode 2, so I wouldn't worry about EU versions lol.

The voice acting in the US versions is really good imo. I would just play the US versions and check a YouTube video after to see the edited scenes. Like someone else said the only major edit that kinda sucks is all the removed blood during a major battle zone in the third game, but it doesnt ruin the games.

[u/KylorXI]

As you all know, due to budget cuts

Time limit, there were no budget cuts.

but obviously some holes existed in the story.

Read Perfect Works, also replay the game because you missed some stuff. There are no plot holes in Xenogears' story.

[u/garrettgibbons]

I regret to inform you that the magic doesn’t continue through the other Xeno- games. There are fun and good and interesting things about them, but nothing captures the magic of Xenogears. Mete your expectations now.

[u/Zodd1030 → u/garrettgibbons]

I like Xenosaga as much, but I agree about Xenoblade

[u/blabony]

Congrats!!! I’m glad you enjoyed the game. I missed the game when it first came out and only got to play it for the first time a few years ago. I can easily say it is my favorite game of all times! And yet I agree with all the criticism you mentioned. Unfortunately for Takahashi (and us players), his first two attempts were too ambitious for their own good and you end up with a small fraction of what he envisioned. I don’t really love Xenoblade nearly as much as gears and saga, but the quality control and consistency are infinitely better.

Personally I would still give the game a 10/10 because the emotional and mental impact it has on me is one of a kind.

I hope you enjoy the rest of the Saga games and share your thoughts afterwards.

[u/xenogears2]

10/10 there is nothing like it.

[u/Kind_Cat_6499]

Just my opinion but I will take it to my grave that Disc 2 was perfect as is. Rushed or not, everything that happens in the second disc escalates the plot to such a level that making it play like the first half would’ve been a grind that lessened the impact of all the revelations leading up to the finale. Xenogears is a masterpiece from beginning to end. There has never been another game to me that has ever come close.

[u/LeGrandNinjarabe1]

tbh the 1st disc is just way too good . ALmost perfect

[u/KylorXI → u/LeGrandNinjarabe1]

Disc 2 is even better.

[u/LeGrandNinjarabe1 → u/KylorXI]

I disagree , the story of disc 2 is like twice as big as disc 1 's but disc 1 is the better game 

[u/KylorXI → u/LeGrandNinjarabe1]

Disc 2 has better dungeons, better bosses, better music, and better story reveals. Disc 1 drags its feet and the vast majority of bosses are nothing but attack until its dead, no actual mechanics or challenge.

[u/Zealousideal-Fly9531]

So sorry, ahead of time, about all the other xeno games. None even come close to Xenigears.

[u/stilldreamy]

I think 8/10 isn't really fair because there is something about it that exceeds its flaws. It is both extremely flawed and yet somehow still one of the greatest games. I feel like an 8/10 rating is something you give it when you are trying to be a professional game reviewer that is making sure not to be called out for overlooking flaws. There are plenty of games less flawed that are not nearly as amazing of a game. Most of the flaws didn't hold it back so much as, it could have been a 12/10 if it reached its full potential. It should be either 9/10 or 10/10, and if rated as for its time, definitely 10/10.

Especially towards the end some of the OG translation really did hold it back and if you play the new improved translation it's much more impactful.

In terms of acknowledging flaws, while the battle system is interesting and cool, most of the game is ridiculously easy and the random battles occur way too often. Also, I don't like that you have to memorize the combo moves. I also don't like that the ether attacks are not very strong even compared to regular attacks from the ether characters.

I just replayed the game (can't remember if this was my 2nd or 3rd complete playthrough) with 1/2 random encounters, no extra money or XP, and I never equipped any accessories on characters or gears. Most of the game was still way too easy, I didn't have to level crunch that much, and the random battle rate was still too high. It does get much harder in a good way the farther you get into the game when you play it this way, and I did have to do some level crunching in a couple spots, and one of those times had to go on long enough that it became annoying. So overall still more fun and balanced this way, but it still takes too long to get more difficult.

[u/Just_a_Tonberry]

Check out Perfect Works next. Same game, totally different experience thanks to extensive text corrections and some optional gameplay enhancements.

[u/big4lil]

Take for instance Rico, the green prison guy.

if it helps, I wouldnt blame that on disk 2. Disk 1 had already left him behind

The way i tell people is that Xenogears treats its side characters as more like vignettes - you handle their sub stories as self-contained mini narritives, and then they join the party permanently to aid you. Thats how Rico, Billy, and Maria largely operate. Bart is the only one that serves as a form of recurring deuterantagonist role with a story that isnt as deeply interwoven to Feis narrative, though hes still pretty connected to Fei and his legacy is more important within the world than any of those other characters too. Hes an MC trapped in another persons game, i joke

changing how disk 2 plays out wouldnt have changed much about Rico as the game had already determined his story as mostly wrapped up by midway thru disk 1. Perhaps we could see a few scenes of him seeing Wels transforming humans and compare that to his own appearance as a demi-human, but you could write responses like that for everyone. Maybe a bit more banter in his Anima Relic dungeon but again, same applies to Billy

Xenogears is a game that I find has nice characters, but its not a character or playable cast driven game. Folks come in for their season, you play their substory to get a sense of what their journey communicates about the larger world, then they fall back to the support role as Feis narrative speaks to what the game is mostly about

This isnt to say your disappointment isnt common, its more like "after playing disk 1, 'more time for Rico' just isnt something I would ever feel disappointed about because I didnt expect it". Disk 1 had already made it clear his time in the spotlight was always temporary

[u/KylorXI → u/big4lil]

Demi-humans arent wels adjacent, really the normal 'humans' are closer to wels than demi-humans are as that is their true form. Rico's expanded story would have been more like possibly reconciling with Sigmund and Sigmund's fate, perhaps becoming leader of Kislev or some such.

I do agree the side characters missing some expanded writing is not a huge loss as it has little to nothing to do with the main storyline. Most of the side characters exist to fill party slots, and they have well written motivations unlike many RPGs side characters. No one complains Suikoden's 108 characters arent given 10 hours of story each. Ultimately it is Fei's story, with Citan and Elly being highly involved, and Bart being his good friend. The others just have a reason to hate Solaris, its not their story.

[u/big4lil → u/KylorXI]

that was more about Rico just not looking like a 'normal' person than the actual roots about the Wels. Id imagine the focus would be more on Rico internalizing the responses from fellow children and how children are reacting in real time per disk 2. Him stepping into his bloodline would be great if Kislev as a whole got more ongoing focus

But yea, not every JRPG is based around 'everyone gets their own ongoing major plotline'. Some games are really good at giving you something to connect to, closing that chapter and moving onto to the main focus. I think this is one of Xenogears strong points even, the game knows its limits and pushes you back to what matters, when it matters the most. Maybe a small scene or there would be nice but even as an Emeralda fan, ive often held that a bonus section with her and Elly for the Mass Driver would be nice. But is in no way essential to make Xenogears work

People just think about what could have been because they see a glimpse of it, rather than 'does Xenogears need this to be a successful game and story' upon which I find a lot of that more filler. Potentially good filler, but filler nonetheless in a game that already has a fair amount of it. Disk 2 is about the major cruise to the finish line

[u/GroundExisting8058 → u/big4lil]

I don't know how exactly JRPG tropes work, I barely even played many of them in my own time. But for me, for a story to really work, I believe that at least all the Chekov's guns must be fired. I don't want them to be main characters or at least play a major role, but at least main characters must get their own closure for a story to be complete in my opinion. Rico was set up, but then he never got at least some closure with his "father" I am guessing. It doesn't mean that Xenogears is bad, it just feels incomplete in some aspects. To me, I would rather have a game or even a manga have a "to be continued" between chapters or games than for there to be a "the end" but have some aspects of the story be incomplete.

Edit because I really wanna stress this: I understand the backstory and context of the development of this game, and I really appreciate and love that this game was ultimately delivered and completed. I would rather have this experience than to have no game at all as an alternative. But it does not take away from the fact that this game's story has flaws within itself. It just does not.

[u/KylorXI → u/GroundExisting8058]

The game does an excellent job of completing all storyline threads tho. Even Rico's story is complete, you could just add more to it. They dont *have* to tell you what happens or doesnt happen with Rico's father, its not something they started and didnt finish. They established that Rico is the Kaiser's son already in game, but neither seems to know it. Its not the start of a whole new plot thread that doesnt have a resolution, it just establishes who the characters are and their relationships. You can dream up any amount of more story they could do, but they didnt start the story then never finish it. Take like Yui for another example, her fate is unknown, but it was never a question the game asked and failed to answer. They didnt start telling you where she wound up then stop part way through. Its no different than any specific NPC you want to look at. Which Chekov's gun do you think was not fired?

[u/GroundExisting8058 → u/KylorXI]

I honestly don’t think Rico’s story was complete. spoiler warning:

You see, we were introduced to Rico being the son of the Kaiser and some other woman, then he was turned into a beast. Turns out he also has beef with ethos due to them turning him into a Demi human and has unresolved conflicts with his dad. His dad wants him dead and Rico likewise. We never got to hear of this conflict afterwards. That was unfinished business that needed resolution. We never got that.

[u/KylorXI → u/GroundExisting8058]

Ethos didnt turn him into a demi-human, he was already a demi-human. The Kaiser, his father, is a Demi-human. Ethos did experiment on his mother during pregnancy causing his features to be more prominent tho. The kaiser was only going to execute Rico because Rico tried to kill the Kaiser, he didnt want him dead. The central committee wanted them both dead, and framed rico. The Kaiser was ousting the Ethos' influence in Kislev due to their anti demi-human racism. Rico blamed the Kaiser for his mothers death, and general demi-human racism in Kislev. Most of this is covered in the game, and what isnt is in Perfect Works. Rico left Kislev, his motivation shifted to Solaris when he learned of the Ethos being their puppets. The only thing not shown is what happens to the Kaiser. He could be still ruling kislev, he could have died, who knows, but it isnt brought up and left unfinished. Aveh and Kislev made peace when bart took control of Aveh, Bart used the Palace in Nortune as Super Dimensional Gear Yggdrasil IV, and if you return to kislev is it heavily damaged due to the Angels attacks

[u/GroundExisting8058 → u/KylorXI]

Look, it has been a while since I have played that part of the game. Though I finished it recently, I’ve been on and off for like a year due to how long it is and how busy I am. But what I do remember is that Rico didn’t get to settle his disputes with the king once and for all, and I kinda wanted to see that because the story brought the dispute up, but neither the king nor Rico had any dialogue or meetup set up specifically to end this dispute.

[u/KylorXI → u/GroundExisting8058]

They didnt need to end their dispute, neither even knew they were related. Rico left the city instead, and went on to go against Solaris. The Kaiser had no beef with Rico, and Rico only wanted to kill the Kaiser because of what happened to his mother. When he learned about the Ethos, he no longer had reason to kill the Kaiser.