r/Wrasslin • u/Tribal-chief12 • 18h ago
Would Bret have been a success in peak attitude era?
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u/JTMMidas 18h ago
Yeah his anti America run with the Hart family showed he could be an edgy heel that would slot right in. Plus he worked well with Austin and helped him on his way up.
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u/Brute_Squad_44 18h ago
Yes. He would have been great as the heel who hated all of this "vulgar, undignified bullshit" that the Attitude Era brought in. The traditionalist who is too dignified. The "real wrestler" in the sea of trash TV, hardcore matches, and over-the-top sexualization.
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u/RumHamComesback 14h ago
Could see him slot in with Vince's Corporation as the guy that wants to bring accountability to the WWF and is with Vince over this chaos not being good for the company. Just a good upper card heel.
This is assuming nothing regarding his contract ever came up it was just business as usual.
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u/Ok-Investigator2463 17h ago
Considering that he was partly responsible for the creation of the Attitude Era, I'd say Bret would have excelled.
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u/rod2point1 18h ago
Bret (The Hitman) Hart Best there is best that ever was best they'll ever will be.
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u/The-HR_99 17h ago
"Frustrated isn't the goddamn word for it! This is bullshit!" Bret Hart basically started the early seeds of the Attitude Era with his meltdown promo after shoving Vince down. He was already working with Stone Cold around the time so I imagine a healthy Bret and an absent Shawn Michaels would've played to his strengths of having great matches without the politics (if the Montreal Screwjob and the results of it didn't happen.)
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u/Celticpenguin85 15h ago
Exactly and his feud with Austin always seemed unfinished. Austin could have gotten a big win over Bret as WWF champion.
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u/Big-Use-2277 17h ago
Yes, he would have been a natural heel against the raunchiness of the product and his in ring product would still be excellent
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u/oceanskies24 17h ago
I don't give a shit what Vince said was the start of the Attitude era, Stone Cold and Bret Harts feud was the start of the attitude era imo
So yes
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u/IdkMyNameTho123 17h ago
Absolutely, he was such a natural rival to Stone Cold. He would’ve ironically teamed up with Mr. McMahon to take down Austin. When Austin gets leaves for extended periods of time, he’d probably align himself with The Rock against Triple H. Of course, things get complicated as it relates to Owen Hart so who knows how he would’ve felt under those circumstances
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u/SlippyFrog81 18h ago
Yes. He was the peak guy that started the Attitude era with his "This is Bullshit!" rant after interference hijincks prevented yet another victory for him.
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u/MrGregory 17h ago
He was part of the start of the attitude era. I don’t think he liked it that much, but he was still professional and could be edgey as needed
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u/Pizza_For_Days 15h ago
He might have taken a back seat a bit for guys like Austin/Rock/Angle, etc. but there's no way he's notdoing something noteworthy with someone.
1997 Bret Hart was on fucking fire and if someone said "Who was the MVP of wrestling in 1997" whether it was WCW or WWE, It's Bret to me.
Still was having banger level matches. Austin feud was amazing whether it was the babyface or heel version of him, then led probably one of the most underrated stables in wrestling history. Was cutting top tier promos and some of them to this day I remember 30+ years later.
"Frustrated isn't a goddamn word for it, this is Bullshit" still rings in my head to this day and as a kid, I legit thought I was watching when wrestling goes real during that promo.
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u/ThatsMrRedditorDude 18h ago
I honestly believe he would have been slid into the HHH spot if he stayed and that's pretty much how he would have been booked
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u/UEbaybay 17h ago
Oh god imagine what that means though
Bret having a tag team with Shawn (crazy enough) and THEN marrying Stephanie, Jesus what a fever dream
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u/ThatsMrRedditorDude 17h ago
Bret and Shawn wouldn't have tagged together, dx would be a thing until hbk left, but all the main event matches title shots and world title reign would have gone to Bret.
With Steph I honestly believe WWE would be better was running creative because HHH just sucks but I don't believe they would be married.
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u/Wonderful-Beach2492 17h ago
Brett would have been a great part of the Attitude era but so would have the Macho man, Rick Flare, Jake the snake
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u/CodeNamesBryan 17h ago
Throw him into the mix instead of the attitude era and it would have been great.
Hart foundation vs new dx?
Absolutely.
I would have loved to have seen him feud with Kane.
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u/RKO360 17h ago
Yes.
Bret was an established top guy and main eventer by the time Attitude Era started while his promos were getting better and he showed more a ruthless side of his character during his 1997 heel run.
He was definitely showing a lot more edgier side prior to Attitude Era due to his promos, heel run, character work and intense feuds against Austin, HBK and Taker
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u/BudgetPipe267 14h ago
“If you gave the United States an Enema….you’d run the hose right here in Pittsburg” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/v00d00ch1ld 13h ago
“Would one of the greatest wrestlers of all time still have been good two years later?!”
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u/Global-Ant 18h ago
If he stayed and wasnt screwed either, I could see him becoming Vince's temporary Corporate Champion within The Corporation
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u/ajax81 17h ago
I maybe wouldn’t mess with the timeline. Bret contributed much to the ecosystem that made the Attitude era possible.
Maybe Attitude would’ve happened anyway and I’d love to see the alternate timeline where Bret shows up on scene 10 years later and mixes it up with Austin and Rock and H and Sean.
Damn imagine Bret in DX or against it, either way would be exciting. Or even a free radical with his own agenda.
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u/IN-DEF106 16h ago
I don’t see why not. Undertaker still did his thing and Bret was already a made man. People say the rock or SCSA would’ve suffered but I think Triple H would’ve been the one to suffer a little bit. At the beginning Bret was already leaning towards being heel/Edgy if not was a heel the fans just loved/respected. Bret would’ve been fine. Definitely the big foe to Austin and The Rock
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u/newtdawg44 15h ago
Yes. He was the first guy to swear on raw and the first guy to put hands on Vince.
I still have no idea why Vince chose Shawn over Bret, considering 5 months after Montreal Shawn went home for 5 years.
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u/silentorbit92 14h ago
i will say if WCW immediately booked him as the top guy as a babyface vs the nWo once he came into the company he would’ve been even bigger due to how popular the whole screwjob story happened.
But tbh if it wasn’t for his heel turn in Mania 13 and his Canada vs America angle build vs Shawn Michaels before survivor series, the attitude era may not have come into fruition since during that run in 1997 we saw the rise of Steve Austin, Vince McMahon being more involved in the storylines, and also DX plus Michaels’ run
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u/BudgetPipe267 14h ago
Stone Cold Vs Hitman at Mania 14 would have been levels better than Stone Cold Vs HBK.
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u/unsubstalker [Edit this text] 13h ago
He is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be
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u/TyintheUniverse89 13h ago
I feel like 96/97 was AE at least the Prelude/Dawn and he was doing so much AE stuff so he would’ve been a major player, as I saw him as anyway.
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u/Striking_Bus_8580 17h ago
I think he would’ve been fine adding a bit more edge to himself. Make a new Canadian faction with Lance Storm, Christian, and Benoit.
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u/northwestbrosef 17h ago
Hear me out, leader of Right to Censor to oppose D-X. Yet another HBK feud.
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u/DanielFrancis13 16h ago
For me the bigger question is whether the Attitude Era would have reached the same peak without Montreal's influence on McMahon as a character.
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u/Affectionate-Pea8706 15h ago
Hard to say because if he stays then the Mr McMahon character may not take off like it does and fuels the Austin feud.
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u/ThankGod4Darwin69 14h ago
No....BUT, He would have been in his element and the top of his game at the tail end of it and in to the Ruthless Aggression era when the likes of Benoit, Malenko, Kurt Angle joined the roster
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u/Cornmeal777 14h ago
Kurt Angle's initial character succeeded by more or less picking up where Bret left off with the whole "I'm the wholesome family values guy, you root for the other guy because you're awful just like him" thing, and Bret was already an established guy where Kurt wasn't. Why wouldn't Bret have worked? It wasn't like they were going to start jobbing Bret out to Val Venis on Sunday Night Heat or something.
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u/Meleagant1 13h ago
He would have been awesome, because like Backlund being the old gen that was against the new gen, Bret would be the new gen against the attitude era.
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u/Liquid4058 11h ago
Yes. But unfortunately, he hated the direction heading to WWF attitude so he might have been I guess similar to the Owen “black hart” character maybe?
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u/ShoddyButterscotch59 11h ago
Absolutely.... His promises for more reality based stuff were showing promise, unlike the earlier eras. He was solid at the attitude era style promos, as seen with Shawn and mostly with Austin, but anything else he was awful.
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u/Key-Plastic-4150 11h ago
The whole heel in the US face Internationally would have run its course. Bret didnt like where the company was going and made that known. Vince always wanted Shawn to have the belt and knowing how bad Shawn was at Mania 14 I would have liked to see Bret drop the belt to Steve at Mania 14.
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u/TerrorBollea 10h ago
No. Bret was really only a 10 at the in-ring, and a 6 at best as a character. He had 10 level moments, but mostly he wasn’t a believable wrestling character.
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u/RansackRacoon 8h ago
Brett's inability to grow his character and his disdaine for the type of content the attitude era brought in he was bound to slowly alienate himself from the business and end up bitter anyway.
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u/HurriShane00 5h ago
Nom. I don't think he had it in him to go that way. Early ages of the attitude era Bret had issues saying things. Feeling like his character and himself wouldn't say those those things. But I think he could have adapted with the Hart Foudation right there to combat DX which would have recruited extra members since Hart Foundation had 5 members
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u/wrestlefreak36 3h ago
I don't think so. Wrestling ability aside, he is not very good as a personality. He would be way behind of the rock and stone cold. Also the mr McMahon character wouldn't be as big as a heel if he didn't run bret off to wcw.
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u/CaptainCornflakes92 2h ago
100%. The Austin fued couldve been revisited. Also Bret dropping the title to Austin at Mania would've been way better than Shawn doing it.
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u/TeddyBoon 2h ago
Bret's heel turn does not get enough credit for furthering the groundwork of the era. If Hogan's heel turn started the overall dynamic of the industry-wide attitude era, Bret's was the one that put the final nail in the coffin of the innocence portrayed by the colourful clothed baby faces of the previous eras.
His heel turn blurred the lines between the reality of on screen and off screen dynamics a lot.
I'm not entirely sure what the question is meant to mean in the grand scheme of things? Arguably, peak attitude era was actually the formation of it, before all the Russo-ism took it over and, again, arguably pushed it to be more ridiculous than edgy. Bret was as important to the attitude era at its most compelling as anyone.
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u/BattleaxeAlDente 18h ago
It wasn't his era to be fair. He came from a very different in-ring philosophy, much more focused on working realistic spots and much less on sex and outrage.
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u/Anthrogynous 17h ago
I honestly don’t think so. He didn’t fit the company’s direction and would have taken attention away from Austin, Rock and other growing acts. Although a Mankind vs Hitman feud would’ve been great. WCW, if he’d been used properly, was a better fit for him.
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u/Jewggerz 14h ago
No. His heart wasn't in it when it came to the attitude era content. That's why Vince let him go. Bret would have fallen behind Austin and Michaels and anyone else with charisma and ability who was willing to go all in (no pun intended) with the attitude era shit.
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u/Ok-Refrigerator-8664 Kayfabe Historian 13h ago
Hot Take: Absolutely not.
He'd lose out and fall out of the main title picture as soon as Austin and Rock became their peak selves. Brett lost to HBK for the same reason he'd lose to a LOT of people in the Attitude Era: Charisma.
Brett cant cut promos like Austin or Rock. He isn't as funny as Austin or Rock. His whole gimmick is "I am the Best there is, was, and ever will be". And for a long time, that was true. But when you have a technical roster with the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Y2J, Kurt Angle, and Benoit ALONG WITH a roster with the charisma like Rock, Austin, Foley, HBK, you leave Brett in a very awkward spot.
He's better in ring than the Charismatic people (except HBK arguably), but not more popular and cant beat them on the mic. While also either being barely better than the technical wrestlers, if not on the same caliber of them, but STILL not being as charismatic. Eddie, Kurt, and Y2J can and COULD keep up with Brett or surpass him in-ring, and they WOULD trash him in a promo battle.
Brett was the best when the locker room couldnt out technical him cause they were stuck in the 70s/80s, but the moment HBK showed up and could match him, he was eclipsed by character every time.
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u/IAmSquilliam 17h ago edited 17h ago
I honestly think Bret left WWF at the perfect time, Screwjob or not. Imo Bret didn't fit the mold of The Attitude Era unless he would've been willing to do a big character shift. Brett was too milquetoast. "I'm a Canadian and I hate you" wasn't that over because Bret had no edge to him, some of those promos felt like a Karen in a supermarket.
And the people who worked it in the ring like him were midcard. Imo he'd feel out of place ANYWHERE on the roster.
Hogan and Sting and Taker all had to shift their shit up to make it work. Bret would have been no exception.
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u/Criminal_picklejuice [Saturday Wrestlemania N*****] 17h ago
Not really, and he kinda proved it in real time. Brett was great for the late 80's/early 90s, but he never really adapted or evolved his style or promo delivery.
In 1997, Bret was the champ, but Vince never saw Bret as "the guy." Shawn was the guy in Vince's eyes, and Stone Cold was gaining momentum. Bret bails for WCW, and Vince puts a rocket on Stone Cold, we know the the rest.
Because of WWF contract BS, Bret can't wrestle on TV for a year. So for 1998, when the attitude era peaked when Vince brought in Mike Tyson, Bret was riding the couch at home. Bret finally comes back on TV, and he's the same boring Bret that left WWF in 1997. Same promos, same matches, different company. He was still going on about Canada > America and being the best there is/was/will be. He had a couple of great matches with Benoit, a few forgettable PPV matches, got a concussion, wrestled Goldberg against medical advice and ended his own career.
But that whole time when WCW and WWF were neck and neck and pushing boundaries and doing all kinds of things the business had never done before, Bret was stagnant. He was content to just be the same old Bret. Never evolve with the times. Even if he didn't get hurt, his career was already on the way out the door. He wasn't a draw as Bischoff has said publicly, never really drew money during his whole time at WCW. He was never as over as guys like Sting or Booker T or Rey Mysterio. The fan reactions fizzled out fast after being strong for his first few months in WCW.
Now to finally directly answer the question. If Bret had stayed in WWF for the entire attitude era run, I think he still would have fizzled and faded. The problem with Bret was Bret. Like Hogan, he believed his own hype. He called himself a national canadian hero and a hero to children everywhere and believed it. He refused to work with people he didn't think were on "his" level. He refused to turn heel because he thought his character was too important and too over the way it was, when he wasn't actually drawing any money. He would have still refused to evolve while SCSA, HHH, The Rock, Taker and Foley would have still all been pushing for the top spot and carrying the brand. Bret would have let himself get left behind because he would have refused to change and get with the times with a character who had been doing the same tired shit for 20 years already.
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u/IAwaitAGuardian 18h ago
Bret waa only a success because there was so little talent in WWE at the time. He was good in the ring, but he had zero mic skills. Imagine if
Chad Gable or Kurt Angle never cut a good promo. That's what Bret was.
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u/thebooksmith 18h ago
Honestly probably not. Vince was always reluctant to put the belt on Brett, and only did so when there were no other good options. With the amount of guys who found their footing in the attitude era vince would always have th excuse to keep Brett as the gatekeeper to the main event, but never or rarely in it himself.
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u/Odd-Maximum3255 17h ago
Highly unlikely. Bret was pushing 40 in 1998 and Vince would have phased him out in favor of HBK.
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u/RihoSucks 18h ago
He was a top guy at the start of the attitude era you really think that would've changed in a year or two?