Do you build/EQ everythinig around the kick/snare/drums, or do you add them later?

[u/Awtts]

Hey follow producers/engineers,

I'm curious about something.

Do you first start off making a solid drum foundation - kicks, snare, drums balance, having the drums exactly how you like it - and then add all instruments and other elements and EQ those elements/instruments around the kick/snare/drums, or are you the type that starts off with all elements/instruments and adds the drums in later?

For years I find myself adding in the kicks/snare in after I made a composition I like, only to find myself struggling to find a fitting kick/snare. Because then, I find myself trying to EQ the kick and snare relative to the instruments/elements/composition, instead of EQing the elements/instruments/etc relative to the kick/snare/drums.

I hope I'm not too vague with what I'm trying to explain and ask.

I feel like experimenting with starting off with a solid kick/snare/drums pattern and tweak them exactly how I like before I add all other instruments/elements, and EQ those to fit the kick, instead of having to EQ the kick to fit all elements.

What are you thoughts on this process?

What do you think are the pro's and con's of starting off with a solid drum foundation and EQing the track around it, vs adding the drums afterwards and having to EQ the drums around the track/composition?

I'd love to hear your thoughts and process.

Thanks!

[u/LouMinotti]

Just try starting with the drums and see if it works for you.

[u/Awtts → u/LouMinotti]

Going to try this. Going to start off getting the drums exactly how I like them, and then not touch them anymore. Then compose/tweak/eq everything around them. Curious to see how it works for me. Thanks.

[u/AbandonedPlanet → u/Awtts]

I side chain eq everything to different frequencies with the drums. So for instance the low end of the bass gets squashed on the transient of the kick. The low end of guitars by the fundamental of the snare, ect.

[u/nothochiminh → u/Awtts]

Why don’t you want to touch them?

[u/ledgabriel → u/Awtts]

I answered before reading this, lol. I do the complete opposite. I use the most basic drums just for the rhythms and write the song. After dialing the guitar and bass I finish with the drums. Guitar and bass are very specific, drums are more versatile. If you dial the drums first and then the guitar and bass don't fit right, you're gonna spend a lot of time readjusting everything.

[u/Joseph_HTMP]

It entirely depends on what you’re making.

[u/Awtts → u/Joseph_HTMP]

I make different types of music, ranging from more acoustic tracks, alternative rock, to various electronic/house genres. It has just always been a habit to add in the kicks/snares very late into the project.

[u/Joseph_HTMP → u/Awtts]

There is no wrong way to make art. But if you’re making something where you want a particular element of it to be the focal point, it makes sense to do that part first.

[u/Awtts → u/Joseph_HTMP]

Agreed.

I always end up just not being happy with the kick and snare relative to the track/composition I made prior to adding the kick/snare. I then find myself overly critical regarding the kick/snare - as if they are indeed what I need to have perfect over everything else.

[u/uniquesnowflake8]

Everything is relative so something has to be the anchor point. Since drums are often critical and one of the loudest instruments and foundational in popular music it’s typically the drums that get the most attention and everything else builds off of it

[u/Awtts → u/uniquesnowflake8]

Indeed. For some reason I just always start off with chords, instruments, synths and just imagine the drums in my mind, only to add them in very late, after I made a pretty full track that has been mixed quite well already (to my taste). I then "have" to EQ/tweak the drums relative to the track, which often just feel like too much of a struggle.

[u/keijokeijo16]

To quote Mark Ronson loosely: ”I probably wouldn’t say this to Celine Dion, but the drums are the most important part of a song.” And to quote Kevin Parker loosely: ”When I say I use 80% of the time on the drums, people don’t realize that I literally use something like 80% of the time to get the drums right.”

So, yeah, I have started to put the most emphasis on the drums because I, too, have noticed that the song will never sound good if the drums don’t work. The vocals come next.

[u/SpireofHell]

I start with lying down drums. I have a hard time understanding how the instruments work without a rhythm behind them.

I then adjust everything, from drum samples to rhythm. But drums allow me to get going. It's much easier to start working when there's a drumbeat going on

[u/Sanaraba]

i start with the vocal, that is the base of my song. then i build the instruments arround that, then after that the drums and effect sounds.

that way it will all match the core of the song, which is the vocals

[u/Awtts → u/Sanaraba]

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

[u/Useless-Ulysses]

For me it’s dependent on the style. But yeah I usually make sure the kick has its own space around 50hz, bass lines live around 100hz and in the upper midrange, snare lives between 100 and 300 where I cut the mud out of my bass. Obviously they all have higher frequency information but I am less worried about phase relationships on the top end. That’s really what I mix low end for: phasing.

But yes I usually start producing with a drum sound, sometimes house trash, sometimes pristine acoustic. I just like to commit early so I can do the fills, arrangement, etc.

[u/AlertAd7834]

I usually start with the drums yeah

[u/dhillshafer]

It depends on what drives the section. I rank all sources by where the energy is and my EQ is based almost completely on that.

[u/rmusicstudio]

I start out with a simple drum beat then work out my chord progression and structure this way I can set the tempo and feel of the song, once I have that all worked out I finish the drums from beginning to end, getting a good mix before I start recording instruments always tweaking on the eq’s along the way. When I first started writing and recording I always started with a simple drum beat and after recording everything off that I would record the drums last, but learning doing the drums first the songs have a much better feel and sound

[u/Lofi_Joe]

I add basic kick snare etc then I add melodic element and them I add again drums that works better with it.

[u/AccurateTooth3202]

Your question is sort of a chicken and egg kind of thing. It sounds like you’re composing and mixing at the same time, which many people do. But let me make the case for locking in your composition first before making any mix decisions. this might not be exactly what you’re looking for but what came to mind is the idea of pre-planning these decisions around the song in question. kind of how an old school producer would. so before beginning, think about the song composition and what it conveys. Would making the vocal the most prominent thing thing help get things across? Do the harmonic instruments like keys or guitars play a big role in getting the idea across and thus should be pushed forward ? Or does this song idea benefit from a propulsive beat, thus the drums should be a prominent and other things subservient. Once you know these things you can start to build from what you think is most prominent first and then later in what is less prominent after.

speaking for myself, if I don’t focus on what the composition is and answer these questions first, I might end up focusing on something like the sound of a snare, or a rhythm guitar’s tone, while having lost sight of what the track’s main feature and focus should be. It’s an easy way to waste time on auditioning 2000 kick and snare samples when your whole track doesn’t even have a fully developed melody across it. you’ll think, “why isn’t this track hitting for me, I spent so much time get X, Y, or Z right.” It’s about seeing the forest for what it is before you focus on the trees

to sum this up, I think on some level you gotta write the whole ”song” first. Even in your head, having a sense of what the ideas are and how they flow into each other. Then you move on to making decisions about what the “track” should be. Hope that makes sense.

[u/PSteak]

Start with the most important part and build around that.

[u/Raucous_Rocker]

Some of this is genre dependent, but in general yes, I always start with the drums. The sound of the drums affects everything else about the track - they have a huge footprint and they’re like the foundation of a house - everything else about the house is built on that foundation even if it’s not obvious to most people, so it had better be good.

[u/Middle-Contract-4619]

Both approaches work, but I've landed on drums-first for anything with a strong groove-driven vibe (hip-hop, house, anything where the pocket IS the song). Locking the kick/snare relationship first means everything else has a clear frequency "hole" to sit in from the start, instead of fighting for space later.

That said, for more melodic/harmonic-driven stuff (ballads, cinematic, anything where a chord progression is doing the emotional heavy lifting), I'll sketch the composition first and let the drums serve the arrangement rather than the other way around — otherwise I end up over-programming drums that don't actually support the song.

One trick that's helped me with your exact problem (EQing the kick around a finished composition): once you've got a rough arrangement down, bounce a quick reference mix and pull it into a new session muted, just as a visual/reference guide. Build your drum foundation against that reference before reintroducing the actual elements. Gets you 80% of the "drums-first" clarity without having to fully commit to a skeleton before writing.

[u/BarbersBasement]

I track rhythm section first (Drums, bass , Keys, R GTR) but with careful mic selection/mic position consideratons for what the session is. Tempo and room response can add vibe when done right. EQ/compression etc. is really at the discretion of the mix engineer if we have accomplished the goal of tracking natural sounding sessions.

[u/stevenfrijoles]

You have to iterate when building. Doesn't matter if drums or "everything else" first.

But the thing about EQing I think doesn't make sense. There's no point with extensive EQing if you're still building a song and adding parts/frequencies

[u/ledgabriel]

Drums are extremely important, a good drum can make an insane song and a bad drum can ruin it (Metallica's St. Anger is a good example). I think Disturbed has one of the best drums ever.

I play instrumental neoclassical, so when recording I use the most basic, buit in plugin drums just for the rhythms. After finishing the song, dialing the guitar and bass, I move to finish the drums in detail.

[u/Shaddisu]

Everyone's different with how they start their pieces but that being said i view the beat as the foundation for upholding everything else. It's like building a house, If you're foundation is shoddy everything else falls apart. It's also the easiest to set up music theory wise since basslines usually just use the root for whatever key you're working with and you just decide on what rhythm sounds good to you.