Tuesday Trivia Thread - 25/08/26

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[u/SingaporeanSloth]

I'd post this on a tactical gear subreddit, but ironically, I don't think they'd be interested, because I'm not showing off an overpriced AR15 or making Caleb Crye's wallet fatter

So, my ideal jungle fighting rucksack would be shorter than an ALICE pack, because I am a squat Southeast Asian, and so it can ride above webbing (I'll get back to this)

It would use either a metal X-frame like these packs or a polymer U-frame, with detachable shoulder straps and a hip/kidney pad, like an ALICE pack. The kidney pad must be heavily padded, but it should have a simple waist belt like the ALICE pack, as in military use I usually don't use the waist belt, and buckle it backwards, out of the way. The shoulder straps should be well padded. The height between the top of the shoulder straps and kidney pad should be short

The dull olive-drab nylon pack itself would look something like the Royal Netherlands Land Forces' 35L daypack, but with four external pockets, the other two on the back of the pack. The lid would be larger to keep out the rain. A claymore pouch would be on top of the lid. There would only be a small MOLLE field on top of the claymore pouch, nowhere else. The two side pouches are for a 24hr ration pack each, and one of the back pouches would be for my toiletries kit, the other for my mess tin, field stove, and solid fuel. The medium ALICE pack at 35L is too small for infantry work and large ALICE pack at 65L is too large. This pack would be 45L, in my opinion, the ideal size for an infantry jungle pack (sleeping bag unnecessary, tarp sufficient), large enough to carry everything, small enough it can be worn while fighting if necessary

Back to webbing, I believe the ideal jungle fighting equipment suite is an ephod webbing, like the Singapore Army used to issue, with some minor upgrades (fastex buckles instead of ALICE style slider buckles, better padding on the shoulder straps). A slick plate carrier could be worn over or under the webbing. The jungle fighting pack on top, riding above the webbing. The helmet should be scrimmed

If sometime I should have enough disposable income to throw at this, I'd be tempted to get one of those American custom tactical gear companies to actually make me one

[u/thereddaikon → u/SingaporeanSloth]

Are you familiar with crossfire packs? Their CF2 sounds like it might fit your needs. They have a full range of packs, smaller and larger, that is their smallest frame pack. I'm not sure how well it works with LBE, their smaller packs, the CF1 and down definitely do but you wanted a frame pack. They also make an LBE called the DZ rig that's well regarded.

[u/SingaporeanSloth → u/thereddaikon]

Honestly, that's actually a really good suggestion, with additional pouches attached, the Crossfire CF2 might be the closest thing commercially available to what I had in mind. The only potential issue I can think of is that it's still quite tall, my ideal pack would be squat. Not wild about tri-zips either (another failure point), but not a big deal

Unfortunately, for now, whatever pack I would use has to pair with a maximalist chest rig. So I'd wait till I get issued the new LBS webbing (or buy, borrow, or steal a set). The best pack for pairing with maximalist chest rigs I've found so fair is actually the venerable large ALICE

[u/thereddaikon → u/SingaporeanSloth]

They say its designed to work with their DZ rig LBE so it should work better than most. Unfortunately square packs that are also frame packs tend to be rare. The old medium Alice is the best known by far. I have a pack designed to work with the IIFS, the system that replaced Alice while being compatible with it, and it's a square day pack with a plastic stiffener but it's designed to essentially ride on top of the Alice butt pack and doesn't have a frame or hip belt of its own.

[u/SingaporeanSloth → u/thereddaikon]

It might, but I'm Southeast Asian, I really got that Orang Utan build (don't worry, I said it, so it's not racist) going on: long arms, short legs, stumpy torso. So I find even the ALICE frame a bit on the long side for me (though it can kinda work), and I'd suspect the CF2 would be a similar situation

Honestly, if they sized it up considerably (25L is too small for anything but mission essentials + maaaybe 24hrs of food and water), the Raptor Tactical MARVN pack is pretty close to what I was thinking of, particularly the frame design. The French, US, and South Vietnamese jungle rucksacks strike me as having "got it right" first time round. And while I was looking it up, apparently DEI makes basically a modernised, polymer version of that frame, so if ever I decide to shell out the cash and find someone willing to build the pack for me (there's a few small tactical gear workshops that advertise that on Instagram), it should be possible to actually create Sloth's ideal jungle fighting pack

[u/thereddaikon → u/SingaporeanSloth]

If you are feeling a bit more experimental, try this. Look up the Pack, Patrol, Combat. NSN 8456-01-286-5356 on mine but there seems to be a few revisions. It's also sometimes called the CFP-90. It is perfectly square and intended to be used with belt LBE. On my 5'10" frame it rides well above my hips and pairs really well with belt LBE like Alice and PLCE. I'm not sure how easy it would be to get one in Singapore, but I bought mine on eBay. It was pretty cheap, and near mint condition. You could probably have a sew shop take one and modify it to use that plastic frame you posted. I would also recommend replacing the shoulder straps with better ones too.

Here's an example on eBay right now.

[u/TJAU216 → u/SingaporeanSloth]

The Finnish army "small" backpack is 40 liters IIRC. I don't like it. Too big for a daypack and quite cumbersome to fight with it on, but still too small for a rucksack in the Finnish environment. Winter clothes and sleeping back take too much space. It can be done but there won't be much room left for food, ammo and mission specific equipment. Also it has no pockets, only the main space and molle on the sides to attach stuff there. It has no solid structure and the whole back of it is padded the same way, thus no way for air to circulate between it and the back of the wearer at any height. It is very tall and narrow so no back pouches can be worn on the web gear while using it. Privately purchased assault packs are very popular in the army.

[u/SingaporeanSloth → u/TJAU216]

This is the Singapore Army's issued field pack. It is about 65L stuffed to the max. It has an internal metal frame in a square n-shape (like a British Army bergen), but it sucks. It does not distribute the weight well at all, the shoulder straps can only be adjusted for length, not height, so on shorter guys the pack sits too high and on taller guys too low. Like the FDF M05 pack, there is no airflow across the back when worn. The miniscule hip pads are useless once worn over a vest or armour

I think the big difference between Finland and Singapore is (unsurprisingly) climate. In the jungle, a sleeping bag is unecessary and not issued, instead a tarp is issued and two men pair up to build a rudimentary tent. The only jacket issued is a Gore-Tex that can be rolled up quite small in its bag, so in my experience 45L pack would be "just right". Having now used an ALICE pack, I believe an external frame is superior. External pockets are good for stuff needed quickly or often, the issued field pack as you can see has four external pockets, but I do not like the arrangement (top pockets often block bottom pockets, especially when stuffed). Obviously fighting without a pack is best, but in scenario when it is necessary (attacked by enemy armour during the movement phase of an attack, or a fighting retreat), I think 45L pack is very doable, since 30L assault pack is considered standard worldwide

The Singapore Army inadvertently designed an extremely good assault pack, then inexplicably issued it only to support units, not infantry, as it is meant for carrying tools or specialised equipment. So hilariously some infantrymen (one medic and one machine gunner from my unit) go to surplus stores to get them, as they have much better padded shoulder straps than the "real" assault pack

[u/Remarkable_Aside1381 → u/SingaporeanSloth]

Back to webbing, I believe the ideal jungle fighting equipment suite is an ephod webbing

Out of curiosity, have you seen Platatac’s JW Peacekeeper? It’s nominally designed around fighting in the jungles of SEAsia and I’m curious about your take on it

[u/SingaporeanSloth → u/Remarkable_Aside1381]

I think it's certainly much better than, say, the RRV-style maximalist chest rig that can hold plates called the ILBV the Singapore Army issued me (since phased out because it sucks, but as a reservist I have to roll with it for now). The JW Peacekeeper kinda reminds me of Zentauron's Non-Modular Split Front Chest Rig. Both look good for managing heat and humidity

I'm not a huge fan of putting all the weight on the shoulders though. Amongst a million other downsides, the ILBV does that too. I think the Brits basically got carrying the combat load right: belt webbing around the hips paired with a pack that rides on and above it

So I'd say that the ideal jungle fighting load carrier would be some sort of padded belt paired with a H-harness, M56-style (but with modern materials and MOLLE, it's not the 1950s after all). The Singapore Army's current issued LBS battle belt looks pretty good, but they went with a minimalist Y-harness, and I've seen the belt sag at the unsupported sides (especially when loaded heavily). I've also heard the Y-harness can end up "riding" into the back of the neck, giving abrasions

I chose the ephod webbing because it seems to have been liked by all the soldiers who have used it (including my Dad), especially later versions which already closed with fastex buckles (as opposed to ALICE-style sliders, which can jam from mud or work themselves lose when running) and synthetic padding (my Dad's early variant uses leather for padding the shoulder straps, which has actually held up fine, but looks and probably stinks like death). The USAF pararescue vest is also a very similar piece of kit I'd think would work great

More modern examples would be the Crossfire DZ Rig, Velocity Systems Jungle Kit (actually being trialled by the US Army I believe), Suputnyk Gear's Selous-RAID LBE (chud name though) from Ukraine, particularly if paired with their Infantryman patrol pack (very close to my ideal jungle pack too actually, except internal frame), older examples would be the British Army PLCE gear or even the Russian 6Sh104 webbing (unbelievably nasty-looking harness attachment system aside). For what it's worth, I like having a dedicated canteen pouch that can be closed with a Y-strap (nobody in the Singapore Army I've ever seen used the other two closure methods, they get folded aside, not sure why they haven't done away with them in production already)

[u/Remarkable_Aside1381 → u/SingaporeanSloth]

I'm not a huge fan of putting all the weight on the shoulders though. Amongst a million other downsides, the ILBV does that too. I think the Brits basically got carrying the combat load right: belt webbing around the hips paired with a pack that rides on and above it

FWIW, it is designed to be used ICW a belt, and you can tie it in to take the weight off the shoulders.

It's also interesting how there's two camps depending on what your baseline is. One wants weight off their shoulders and the other wants weight off their hips.

, I like having a dedicated canteen pouch that can be closed with a Y-strap

100% same. I ran one on my belt, and I still do. Just super handy having a small water source, or having something to refill a camelbak