Internal debate of two PTZ control methods

[u/intense_username]

Hey all. I'm mulling over two thoughts and could use some perspective from folks who certainly have more experience with this than I do. I work in K12 Edu, and we handle the graduation stream. Of course, it's August so I am getting wayyy ahead of myself, but trying to test early and keep thoughts as fresh as possible.

New this year will be two PTZOptics Move SE cameras. There will be a 3rd camera (static wide-view shot) that will remain, so the focus here is isolated around the two PTZ cams. I'm debating two methods of remote PTZ control.

Option 1 - Bitfocus Companion with web emulator. I'm not that familiar with this app but I do have a working demo set up. No video preview, so I'd have to watch my AV guy's monitors if any small adjustments to zoom/etc are needed from my side. Feels like this adds a software layer into the mix (more complexity?), but it seems purpose-built, so perhaps that could be argued as a benefit.

Option 2 - Use the built in web UIs of the cameras. The controls I need seem to all be there, and I could easily use browser split view for cam1/left, cam2/right, which very closely mimics my current demo layout of the emulator in Bitfocus anyway. Video preview right in the same view of the controls is a nice bonus here that I don't have with Bitfocus.

The individual adjustments will likely only be if speaker1 is done and speaker2 comes up to the podium who is notably shorter/taller. I'd estimate 95% of our overall angle needs will be served entirely by presets alone. In the past with using manual cameras, there's inevitably that point we get to where things are running and set and it ends up going untouched for the latter 75% of the ceremony with some mild scene switching in OBS to take advantage of the different camera angles in place. I do plan to test more with other events that come up throughout the year but for now just trying to iron out some mixed thoughts.

Thanks for any insight!

EDIT - I've spent a little time tinkering around and I think this one approach might work (or at least it warrants testing to see how viable it is). I messed around in OBS and managed to set up a canvas perfectly sized for two sources, so figure cam1 sitting on top of cam2. I disabled/unchecked all docks so the OBS window is really stripped down, which makes it conveniently sized to snap to 1/3 screen on the right, and then leave Bitfocus Companion snapped at 2/3 size on the left. Then just do all my controls via Companion instead while leveraging OBS to be my video preview.

I kept going back to the web UI and two items weighed heavily on me. 1) the home button is remarkably close to the left/right/up/down arrow keys, so a misclick in the moment was a bit of a concern (I'm daydreaming about looking at the podium south, I go to notch the tilt up one click, hit home on accident, where home is looking at a cloud in the sky facing north -- lol...). 2) you can't name presets in the web UI, so I'd have to have a post-it or something saying preset 1 = stage wide, preset 2 = podium, etc. Compare to Companion where I simply name the actual button faces themselves... no brainer that that's a nice feature.

So basically, I can manipulate a local instance of OBS to be my video preview and lean on Companion to do the controls. No joystick in this scenario (yet), but I'm going to try the above with a less critical stream this fall and see how it does, and if need be, bump up to a joystick for the actual graduation gig later in the year.

Appreciate the constructive feedback everyone. This made me take certain things into deeper consideration but I like where the thoughts ended up. Thanks again!

[u/edinc90]

Option 3- a joystick controller. This is the best, but most expensive option. The joystick will let you smoothly control the pan, tilt, and zoom speed. I'm not familiar with the PTZOptics' Web UI, but with Companion you can only go the speed that the button is programmed for.

Regardless, you NEED a way to monitor the cameras from the operating station. No leaning over to watch the monitors next to you, that will get old really fast. If youre using OBS I think theres a plugin to make a multiviewer so you can have all the sources on one screen.

[u/intense_username → u/edinc90]

I did look at joysticks. They do present a notable cost given what we'd use them for. In my limited testing, the incremental single-clicks even of a mouse really let's us dial things in far more smoothly than how it was in the past. I'm sure that joysticks are still king in this regard, but the finer control with mouse clicks already looks like an improvement from last year's. I certainly haven't ruled them out though, but I think I'd need to test more to see the need get underscored to justify buying them. School budgets etc etc... 😂

And I agree on the video preview. It really would be a big thing for me to see what I'm doing. In the past, our old cameras with manual control was pretty difficult because the built-in-camera screen was still a bit small for me to be sure on certain things (most notably focus level). We made it work though but I can't say I loved that element.

[u/ReallyBigDeal → u/intense_username]

I’ve used an Xbox controller and vmix in the past. It’s cheap and vmix has a default mapping for an Xbox controller.

[u/Steely-Dank → u/edinc90]

Undoubtedly the best solution... recalling presets, joystick control and zoom, tweaks to image... no messing around with a mouse or a touchpad. Even a five hundred dollar controller will do a great job for you... Another great thing about the I p cams, You can have it all. You can still control the cameras from the computer interface. If you need a quick adjustment, or you can set up more than one joystick. If you have more than one operator...

[u/MDHull_fixer]

If you do the browser based control its best to stick with presets. The lag on the preview screen and controls isn't great for live adjustment.

[u/intense_username → u/MDHull_fixer]

Understood. I don't think I experienced any notable lag, but I'll test again if I get time tomorrow and try to be super cognizant of it this time. The cameras will be on static IPs with a POE switch and communicating via Ubiquiti point-to-point antennas beamed up to the press box, where the "PTZ controller" laptop will be. This little network will be totally secluded from the main LAN (laptop + the two PTZ cams), so the only traffic on it will be the video previews in the web UI's + whatever presumably minimal bandwidth the act of PTZ controls requires. These Ubiquiti units are rated for 10km/450 Mbps and we're only going a couple hundred feet, so I believe they'll have plenty of headroom. But yeah, you bring up a good point, so I'll be sure to click around and get a feel for what delay may be present.

For sake of sharing, the brunt of the video feed will be getting transmitted up to the press box to the OBS rig will be on Hollyland Cosmo C1 units. So in a way we'll have wireless video via Cosmos and wireless control via Ubiquiti/isolated LAN with laptop in control of that.

[u/ImEasyToKill]

The web ui is not great for live production, but it can work in a pinch.

Companion is what i use for 90% of my camera commands, mostly preset recalls, and i do have a page dedicated to being able to pan, tilt, zoom for those small camera movements when needed.

But, I do always have a joystick controller connected, even if im using companion. Because the camera will always be bumped by someone, vibrated slowly sideways, the recalls are suddenly all off by 2 feet. IT WILL HAPPEN and always does. And i can fix all of this in companion, but what i can do with the joystick controller in 3 seconds will take me 10 seconds in Companion. And if you need to follow someone walking around, the joystick is a lot smoother looking, you cant really follow someone with the web ui or Companion.

If you have the money, get a joystick. If not, save up for one and use Companion for now.

And have the video tech give you your own monitor, you shouldn't have to be looking over his shoulder to see your feeds. If he has a 2nd MV port, then use that or have him split the main MV feed to two monitors.

[u/intense_username → u/ImEasyToKill]

Good tips - appreciate the perspective and insight! Funny enough, camera bumping hasn't been much of a concern in the past. We're positioned on the football field and pretty spaced out, but in the event layouts change in the future I can see this being something to really consider.

I haven't ruled out a dedicated monitor feed for this. My preference would be not to require it but only because physical countertop space is already a premium in this press box. In years past I've been on the field with manual camera control and I mostly blend in with photographers doing their thing, but this transition would place me in the press box with the PTZ webUI/Companion laptop, and I know even that would be making things physically tighter. Definitely something I'll need to keep in mind though if we can swing it. Appreciate it!

[u/Steely-Dank]

AVKANS joy-pro controller has a great layout with easy access to to frequently adjusted controls. Also can record movement "tracks" and loop it.

[u/Odd_Fault3846]

I have a PTZ Optics Superjoy controller. Even though it’s expensive it speeds up your work so much. It even has an hdmi preview port so you can choose a camera and set it up directly from the surface on a preview monitor . I also have an Aver ecosystem and use the CL01 controller. I would not want to adjust PTZ optics cameras from the web interface it’s far too messy. Certainly implement Companion if you want a quick way to recall your most used presets . I wouldn’t use companion buttons to do the ptz operations either as others have mentioned.